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 Cards vs Packers End of Game Controversy 
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RIP Killer
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njroar wrote:
There was illegal hands to the face and a facemask penalty, but neither were called and since both are judgement calls, aren't up to review. Being that there was a fumble and loose ball, there's no way they could see everything that happened, so it was missed. The refs had to follow the loose ball.

As to IF it had been called, it wouldn't have been the Cards ball because the hands to the face and facemask both took place prior to the recovery. The ball was knocked loose by the hands on way to the face, and the facemask and momentum is what caused Rodgers to fall back and kick the ball up into Dansby's hands.

Definitely missed calls, but too much going on that unless they make everything reviewable by the booth in the remaining 2 minutes or just go to the college system and make sure every call is right, then it is just part of the game and what's done is done.


Actually, if the call had been made, it would still have been the Packers ball, not the Cards. In order for the Cards to have retained possession, they would have had to establish possession without a penalty having taken place. Whether it's on a fumble or interception, the team gaining possession cannot have a penalty called upon them, either before or after the possession has been established. The only way the Cards would have retained possession is if the call was a dead ball foul after the play was over.


January 11th, 2010, 6:24 pm
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There defantaly a facemask on that play. Would it have helped the Packers, who knows. All I can say is that the officiating has really sucked this year.


January 11th, 2010, 6:25 pm
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m2karateman wrote:
njroar wrote:
There was illegal hands to the face and a facemask penalty, but neither were called and since both are judgement calls, aren't up to review. Being that there was a fumble and loose ball, there's no way they could see everything that happened, so it was missed. The refs had to follow the loose ball.

As to IF it had been called, it wouldn't have been the Cards ball because the hands to the face and facemask both took place prior to the recovery. The ball was knocked loose by the hands on way to the face, and the facemask and momentum is what caused Rodgers to fall back and kick the ball up into Dansby's hands.

Definitely missed calls, but too much going on that unless they make everything reviewable by the booth in the remaining 2 minutes or just go to the college system and make sure every call is right, then it is just part of the game and what's done is done.


Actually, if the call had been made, it would still have been the Packers ball, not the Cards. In order for the Cards to have retained possession, they would have had to establish possession without a penalty having taken place. Whether it's on a fumble or interception, the team gaining possession cannot have a penalty called upon them, either before or after the possession has been established. The only way the Cards would have retained possession is if the call was a dead ball foul after the play was over.


Yup, you're right. I bolded where I said the same ;) I was responding to wags original question about the Cards getting the ball if it had been called. It was either a TD or Packer's first down.


January 11th, 2010, 7:33 pm
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Quote:
NFL offers context in face mask ruling
January, 11, 2010
JAN 11
3:04
PM ET
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By Kevin Seifert
I returned to NFC North headquarters Monday to find the brawl still taking place over Green Bay’s final play of the season.

As we visually noted Sunday, Arizona cornerback Michael Adams caught his right index finger on Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers’ facemask. Had a penalty been called, Karlos Dansby's game-winning touchdown would have bee nullified.

A picture is worth a thousand words, but it also captures a split-second in time. The potential for penalty is far less obvious when watching the play in live speed.

The NFL issued a rules explanation Monday in response to questions about the play. I got my hands on it this afternoon, and its general tone suggests that no illegal act occurred because Adams -- in the judgment of officials -- did not twist, turn or pull Rodgers’ facemask. An inadvertent grab is legal in part because of a 2008 rule revision.

Before 2008? The play probably would have been a penalty. For those of you who want to read the entire explanation, I’ve included it at the bottom of this post.

You know how I feel about officiating. I think calls even out over time. But they still can make a huge impact in individual games, and that’s why they’re fair game for discussion in setting like these. We spent at least one post every week hashing through some of the more interesting ones during the regular season.

If I were a Packers fan, I would probably be more upset about the non-call of an apparent helmet-to-helmet hit on Rodgers two plays before it. Rodgers, for his part, told reporters in Green Bay on Monday that he spent most of his time thinking about his overthrow of receiver Greg Jennings on the first play of overtime.

“There's always going to be one or two plays in the game where you wonder should there be a call, shouldn't there be a call, but those are out of my control,” Rodgers said, according to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. “The things I worry about are the things I can control. I made some mistakes in the game. Those are the ones I'm thinking about. Not a potential facemask on that.

“The one play I was thinking about laying in bed was the first play of overtime. Unfortunately, just missed Greg on that one that could have ended the game. But [the Cardinals] made a play in overtime, you have to give them credit for that.”

OK then. Here is the full explanation from the NFL:

A "facemask" penalty is a judgment call that is not reviewable by replay.

Rule 12, Section 2, Article 5 of the NFL Rule Book (page 81) states that "no player shall twist, turn, or pull the facemask of an opponent in any direction."

The Rule Book describes the penalty as follows:

"Penalty: For twisting, turning or pulling the mask: loss of 15 yards. A personal foul. The player may be disqualified if the action is judged by the official(s) to be of a flagrant nature."

The Rule Book describes an approved ruling as it relates to facemask penalties (page 81).

"A.R. 12.12 - Third-and-10 on A30. Runner A1 runs to the A33, where he is tackled by B1, who incidentally grasps A1's facemask on the tackle, but it is not a twist, turn or pull. Ruling: A's ball, fourth-and-seven, on A33. No foul."

Prior to the 2008 season, a rule change was approved that eliminated the foul for the incidental grasp of the facemask.

The language of the rule as it relates to a facemask penalty through the 2007 season:

"Penalty: Incidental grasping of the mask -- five yards. Not a personal foul (if by the defense there is no automatic first down). Twisting, turning, or pulling the mask -- 15 yards. A personal foul. The player may be disqualified if the action is judged by the official(s) to be of a flagrant nature."

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January 11th, 2010, 8:08 pm
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Rogers downplays no call, class act IMO.

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Rodgers worried about own mistakes
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Associated Press
GREEN BAY, Wis. -- Green Bay Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers is downplaying a potential facemask penalty that wasn't called on the decisive play of Sunday's overtime playoff loss at Arizona.

Facing third-and-6 on the first series of overtime, Cardinals cornerback Michael Adams blitzed Rodgers and knocked the ball out. It bounced off Rodgers' foot and into the hands of linebacker Karlos Dansby, who ran for a touchdown to give Arizona a 51-45 victory.

Adams appeared to grab Rodgers' facemask on the play, but officials didn't throw a flag. Rodgers didn't complain Monday, saying he was more concerned about his own mistakes.

The NFL issued an explanation of the rule, noting that "twisting, turning or pulling" the facemask is a 15-yard penalty but the penalty for an "incidental" grab of the facemask was eliminated before the 2008 season.

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January 11th, 2010, 8:10 pm
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