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 2011 CBA Thread 
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Post Re: 2011 CBA Thread
Well the benefits and items the league won't negotiate until they become a union again, haven't been touched. The thing i'm hearing is the big issue is the players want someone at the table for off-the-field fines/punishment. The NFLPA does have someone in the discussion for on-the-field fines, but the off-the-field issues such as Big Ben's suspension etc.. Goodell is Judge and Jury by himself. They just want someone included in the discussions and I'm hearing that is the only sticking point at the point. And its an understandable argument, and not unreasonable to request. They don't want Goodell out of it, they just don't want him to be handling it alone.

If they can handle that today/tonight, I think they could pass this tonight or early tomorrow.


July 22nd, 2011, 1:56 pm
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Post Re: 2011 CBA Thread
Here is my issue, we are NOT talking about signing a house loan where the bank might be slipping in some crazy stuff that will screw over your LIFE. We are talking about two VERY well paid sides trying to not leave any money on the table to pad their bank accounts even more. Neither side is getting a raw deal... it is "close enough" that both sides are getting a benefit and NO ONE is going to get screwed out of money that might ruin their lives.

The players have a crap load of money to throw 5-10 attorneys at a legal document to double check language of the contract. In fact, 95% of it is likely exactly the same and you can do a Word compare of the two docs to just focus on the stuff they might have modified. While signing any contract has high stakes, there are SMART ways to look at it and stay on it to work to a solution.

As well, no one is going to lose their house and go to the streets signing the deal. The only ones in danger of that are the hourly workers who work the games and faculties who will be out of work if the deal doesn't get done while two overly compensated sides argue over a couple million dollars they could give back to those in the organization who REALLY could use the money.

Yes, the owners made a publicity move to look good, but the players could do that right now as well. They ASKED for the owners to sign first and now they are complaining about small changes that might get them "jipped." Owners use that money to invest and create more jobs... most players use that money to buy huge houses and pricey cars. Ironically I bet the top 32 players live a more lavish lifestyle than the 32 "owners." (some teams have different ownership types).

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July 22nd, 2011, 1:57 pm
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Post Re: 2011 CBA Thread
TheRealWags wrote:
njroar wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
steensn wrote:
The players need to shut up and stop calling it a "bad deal." It is getting on my nerves...



I agree. I dont think ive been pissed off in this sort of way ever in my life.


Do you read your phone contract before you sign? This is a 10 year agreement with no opt out, and only 3 days to negotiate any outstanding issues once they sign. If the owners don't want to negotiate anything, they can just ignore them and they're stuck with it for 10 years. 99% of the current players won't be active in 10 years.

They NEEDED to take some time and read it over and get prepared with the issues due to that limited window. And yes, that limited window, with the current language of it, could cause legal issues. It just needs to be reworded, but if you don't go over it, you don't know what you're signing.

Not a single one of you would sign a contract at your job without reading it, and studying it.

And a good deal is a deal that both sides call a bad deal.

While I do understand you're point, I think the main reason so many fans are upset is because, according to reports, this is the deal that was agreed upon by both sides, Roger Goodell AND De Smith, and now the players are balking. If they didn't want De to agree to anything, then they shouldn't have given him that power. Seems rather simple IMO.



Exactly. Thank You.

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July 22nd, 2011, 3:14 pm
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Post Re: 2011 CBA Thread
steensn wrote:
Here is my issue, we are NOT talking about signing a house loan where the bank might be slipping in some crazy stuff that will screw over your LIFE. We are talking about two VERY well paid sides trying to not leave any money on the table to pad their bank accounts even more. Neither side is getting a raw deal... it is "close enough" that both sides are getting a benefit and NO ONE is going to get screwed out of money that might ruin their lives.

The players have a crap load of money to throw 5-10 attorneys at a legal document to double check language of the contract. In fact, 95% of it is likely exactly the same and you can do a Word compare of the two docs to just focus on the stuff they might have modified. While signing any contract has high stakes, there are SMART ways to look at it and stay on it to work to a solution.

As well, no one is going to lose their house and go to the streets signing the deal. The only ones in danger of that are the hourly workers who work the games and faculties who will be out of work if the deal doesn't get done while two overly compensated sides argue over a couple million dollars they could give back to those in the organization who REALLY could use the money.

Yes, the owners made a publicity move to look good, but the players could do that right now as well. They ASKED for the owners to sign first and now they are complaining about small changes that might get them "jipped." Owners use that money to invest and create more jobs... most players use that money to buy huge houses and pricey cars. Ironically I bet the top 32 players live a more lavish lifestyle than the 32 "owners." (some teams have different ownership types).


But you're just looking at the top 32. 1000 out of the 1800 players being represented make the league minimum. The players could be injured and never play again every play they go out there. The window to earn big isn't forever. So for their careers, 10 years is their football life. 3 years is the average lifespan. Could you make 500k one year, then never work again for the rest of your life? The owners could break every bone in their body, and they'd still be the owners.

Also, the creating more jobs doesn't really relate to this. Stadium revenues aren't included in the players split. Parking, concessions, etc.. don't get split. So those stadium jobs aren't effected unless there isn't a season. And this is a lockout, not a strike. Those people could be working. As to the players jobs, there's a set # of spots. If they sign a new player, and old one is released. Unlike typical labor type deals, the players are also the product they are selling, so that's why the split is so even. The salary numbers are so high because its an entertainment business. Actors get huge dollar amounts for a small period too. What the business brings in translates to the salaries. If you were bringing in $200 million per windmill, wouldn't you expect a higher salary?


July 22nd, 2011, 3:52 pm
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Post Re: 2011 CBA Thread
njroar wrote:
But you're just looking at the top 32. 1000 out of the 1800 players being represented make the league minimum. The players could be injured and never play again every play they go out there. The window to earn big isn't forever. So for their careers, 10 years is their football life. 3 years is the average lifespan. Could you make 500k one year, then never work again for the rest of your life? The owners could break every bone in their body, and they'd still be the owners.

Most of us can understand all of that, however most, if not all, of these players went to college for free or at highly discounted rates and should therefore have a "Plan B". Now, if they didn't actually do their homework/studying it is their OWN fault. Hell, personally I would have loved to have the opportunity to go to college, but alas I couldn't afford it.

As for making 500K and live the rest of my life, I would think it is quite possible; its called being smart with the $$$ and not blowing it on every little damn thing.

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July 22nd, 2011, 4:28 pm
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Post Re: 2011 CBA Thread
TheRealWags wrote:
njroar wrote:
But you're just looking at the top 32. 1000 out of the 1800 players being represented make the league minimum. The players could be injured and never play again every play they go out there. The window to earn big isn't forever. So for their careers, 10 years is their football life. 3 years is the average lifespan. Could you make 500k one year, then never work again for the rest of your life? The owners could break every bone in their body, and they'd still be the owners.

Most of us can understand all of that, however most, if not all, of these players went to college for free or at highly discounted rates and should therefore have a "Plan B". Now, if they didn't actually do their homework/studying it is their OWN fault. Hell, personally I would have loved to have the opportunity to go to college, but alas I couldn't afford it.

As for making 500K and live the rest of my life, I would think it is quite possible; its called being smart with the $$$ and not blowing it on every little damn thing.


Bingo...

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July 22nd, 2011, 7:47 pm
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Post Re: 2011 CBA Thread
However, that $500K is pre-tax. These guys are in the 30% bracket, so they really get about $350K, not really enough to live on the rest of their lives...

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July 23rd, 2011, 2:46 am
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Post Re: 2011 CBA Thread
conversion02 wrote:
However, that $500K is pre-tax. These guys are in the 30% bracket, so they really get about $350K, not really enough to live on the rest of their lives...


Nope, but that's a huge leg up from where I started from at age 24.


July 23rd, 2011, 9:45 am
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Post Re: 2011 CBA Thread
conversion02 wrote:
However, that $500K is pre-tax. These guys are in the 30% bracket, so they really get about $350K, not really enough to live on the rest of their lives...


Actually, it is much higher than 30%. I took the buyout from GM. They gave me $140K to quit. After State and Fed taxes, I actually got $92K. That's well into the 40 percentages. The more you make. The more Uncle Sam takes.


July 23rd, 2011, 11:30 am
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Post Re: 2011 CBA Thread
njroar wrote:
But you're just looking at the top 32. 1000 out of the 1800 players being represented make the league minimum. The players could be injured and never play again every play they go out there. The window to earn big isn't forever. So for their careers, 10 years is their football life. 3 years is the average lifespan. Could you make 500k one year, then never work again for the rest of your life? The owners could break every bone in their body, and they'd still be the owners.


The problem with what you are talking about here is that if these vet minimum guys are so worried about getting hurt and "only" making 500k, then they had better have a plan B. The players who are holding this up aren't the ones playing for vet minimum. The players making outrageous demands aren't making vet minimum. As any of the 1000 players who do make vet minimum if they would be willing to accept a franchise tag for one or two years, with no guaranttes on long germ security, and they'd jump at the chance to get paid like that. The players know the risks and nobody is holding a gun to their heads to force them to play. The owners cover their medical costs when they do get hurt, that doesn't come from the players. The language the owners wanted included was to help them avoid getting a future anti-trust suit lodged against them in case the players decided not to reconstitute the NFLPA. The owners have a right to protect themselves and the franchise over the greed of a few players.

njroar wrote:
Also, the creating more jobs doesn't really relate to this. Stadium revenues aren't included in the players split. Parking, concessions, etc.. don't get split. So those stadium jobs aren't effected unless there isn't a season. And this is a lockout, not a strike. Those people could be working. As to the players jobs, there's a set # of spots. If they sign a new player, and old one is released. Unlike typical labor type deals, the players are also the product they are selling, so that's why the split is so even. The salary numbers are so high because its an entertainment business. Actors get huge dollar amounts for a small period too. What the business brings in translates to the salaries. If you were bringing in $200 million per windmill, wouldn't you expect a higher salary?


In regards to stadium revenue, the owners have much more at risk financially. If they don't fill the stadiums, they lose money. Most times their inability to fill the stadium comes from an underperforming product. That could be teh fault of the owners, but it is also the fault of the players. And many of those players get paid whether they play well or not. They get paid even if they are hurt.

I have no issues with the NFL players getting paid well. But they are going beyond all that with their most recent demands. They are acting like spoiled children, which is exactly why most fans are now siding with the owners.

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July 23rd, 2011, 2:07 pm
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Post Re: 2011 CBA Thread
conversion02 wrote:
However, that $500K is pre-tax. These guys are in the 30% bracket, so they really get about $350K, not really enough to live on the rest of their lives...


So if they didn't finish school they could afford to do so and be very comfortable for a few years while they job search with zero debt. If they base minimum then they earn getting set up for life... just like the rest of us working still.

Live off of 60k like the rest of the middle class PRE tax and save the rest. They could work a a grocery store making 20k pre tax and suppliment the other 20k they need to live for the next 10+ years.

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July 23rd, 2011, 3:17 pm
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Post Re: 2011 CBA Thread
BillySims wrote:
conversion02 wrote:
However, that $500K is pre-tax. These guys are in the 30% bracket, so they really get about $350K, not really enough to live on the rest of their lives...


Actually, it is much higher than 30%. I took the buyout from GM. They gave me $140K to quit. After State and Fed taxes, I actually got $92K. That's well into the 40 percentages. The more you make. The more Uncle Sam takes.


That's a lump sum, these guys make it over 16+ paychecks...even when I get my yearly bonus, I'm in the 35-40% range, and that's only about 12% of your buyout.

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July 23rd, 2011, 4:17 pm
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Post Re: 2011 CBA Thread
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6797238/2011-nfl-lockout-owners-players-come-deal-all-points-sources-say

It's all over but the final vote. Thank God.


July 24th, 2011, 8:18 am
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Post Re: 2011 CBA Thread
Looks like this could be over on Monday:
PFT wrote:
How Monday’s NFLPA* procedure will work
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on July 24, 2011, 10:31 AM EDT

With an agreement between the NFL and NFLPA* on the verge of happening, many folks may be wondering exactly how Monday’s events will transpire.

A source with knowledge of the procedure informed Florio of the process Monday.

First, the ten antitrust plaintiffs have already agreed to terms of the settlement.

On Monday, the NFLPA* Executive Committee will meet in Washington D.C. to recommend ratification of the settlement. A simple majority is all that’s needed to move the process to the next step.

That next step: The board of player representatives will vote on whether to recommend the agreement. We believe that will take place over the phone. Again, only a simple majority is needed to move the voting along to the rank and file. We suspect the union would probably prefer the votes above be unanimous as a show of unity.

Assuming those steps are taken as expected Monday, players from around the league would then vote on the agreement and whether to recertify as a union when they arrive at team facilities during the week.

That process will start Wednesday, with the hope that there will be enough votes to officially agree to terms by Friday and start free agency over the weekend.


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July 24th, 2011, 1:11 pm
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Post Re: 2011 CBA Thread
I think we can safely say that this thing is finally over. The players voting for it is just a formality at this point.

ARE YOU READY FOR SOME FOOTBALL?

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July 25th, 2011, 11:54 am
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