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 NFL may expand replay, automatically review end zone plays 
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Post NFL may expand replay, automatically review end zone plays
PFT wrote:
NFL may expand replay, automatically review all end zone plays
Posted by Michael David Smith on February 3, 2012, 12:51 PM EST

For the second consecutive offseason, the NFL may be ready to expand its use of instant replay.

Last offseason, the NFL changed the rules so that all scoring plays were automatically reviewed by the replay assistant, who then paged the referee and told him to halt the game and review the play if the ruling was close enough. This offseason, the NFL may change the rules again so that not only scoring plays but also plays in the end zone that aren’t ruled a touchdown or safety on the field get reviewed.

NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell told Rich Eisen of NFL Network that the league’s Competition Committee will review the matter this offseason.

“Whether you scored or you didn’t score, should we review that automatically?” Goodell said.

Goodell noted that there were some key plays during the 2011 season on which a player was ruled not to have scored on the field, and that when replays appeared to indicate that he had scored, that player’s team couldn’t challenge because it had already used its challenges.

For instance, in Week 17 in Green Bay, Lions receiver Titus Young caught a pass in the end zone and got both feet down for a touchdown, but the official on the field wrongly believed Young only got one foot down and ruled it incomplete. The Lions had already used their challenges and couldn’t get the play overturned on replay. Under the new proposal, that play would be automatically reviewed.

Goodell added, however, that he is concerned about adding additional replay reviews slowing down the game.

“You don’t want to disrupt the pace of the game,” Goodell said.

So the question facing the Competition Committee will be whether the NFL can find a way to get more calls right, without taking any longer.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... one-plays/

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February 3rd, 2012, 2:26 pm
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Post Re: NFL may expand replay, automatically review end zone pla
Our new annual tradition, the Lions get screwed by the refs and a rule change is made to make sure that none of the other 31 teams face the same fate. Hummmm, wonder what it will be next year....

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February 3rd, 2012, 3:29 pm
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Post Re: NFL may expand replay, automatically review end zone pla
Pablo wrote:
Our new annual tradition, the Lions get screwed by the refs and a rule change is made to make sure that none of the other 31 teams face the same fate. Hummmm, wonder what it will be next year....


Exactly what I was thinking.


February 3rd, 2012, 6:33 pm
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Post Re: NFL may expand replay, automatically review end zone pla
even this rule change wouldnt be enough to neutralize the terrible performance by the refs in that game. the entire challenge system is flawed. when the league chose to have replay they essentially decided that the goal would be to get the calls right but this system limits that. who came up with the idea that each team can only challenge a max of 3 calls per game? was that based on statistical analysis involving the frequency of bad calls? if so maybe they should redo that analysis, ive seen it too many times when a coach is unsure what to do with a bad call early in the game bc they might run out later. is that why this replay system was designed - to create another level of strategy? does it really make sense for a coach to be right about a blown call but then to look at the replay and say "its not conclusive" and charge that team with a timeout? why is there a penalty for taking another look at a bad call - isnt it bad enough the ref made a bad call now u want to penalize that team even more bc the tv crews didnt have a perfect angle. then there is the rule of penalizing teams 15 yards for challenging plays that arent challengable? why so much strategy and risk/reward involved with this? I just dont understand why the system was designed this way, it seems insane to me.

The college system makes more sense to me - they end up reviewing not probably but definitely too many plays but they are more committed to getting them right and teams/coaches dont get penalized or have to hire extra people to review things - they can stay focused on coaching the game. IMO the NFL should make a decision - we re either going to be dedicated to getting the calls right and change our replay system or accept that replay slows down the game, accept that missed calls are part of the game and do away with replay altogether.


February 4th, 2012, 8:51 am
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Post Re: NFL may expand replay, automatically review end zone pla
The Legend wrote:
even this rule change wouldnt be enough to neutralize the terrible performance by the refs in that game. the entire challenge system is flawed. when the league chose to have replay they essentially decided that the goal would be to get the calls right but this system limits that. who came up with the idea that each team can only challenge a max of 3 calls per game? was that based on statistical analysis involving the frequency of bad calls? if so maybe they should redo that analysis, ive seen it too many times when a coach is unsure what to do with a bad call early in the game bc they might run out later. is that why this replay system was designed - to create another level of strategy? does it really make sense for a coach to be right about a blown call but then to look at the replay and say "its not conclusive" and charge that team with a timeout? why is there a penalty for taking another look at a bad call - isnt it bad enough the ref made a bad call now u want to penalize that team even more bc the tv crews didnt have a perfect angle. then there is the rule of penalizing teams 15 yards for challenging plays that arent challengable? why so much strategy and risk/reward involved with this? I just dont understand why the system was designed this way, it seems insane to me.

The college system makes more sense to me - they end up reviewing not probably but definitely too many plays but they are more committed to getting them right and teams/coaches dont get penalized or have to hire extra people to review things - they can stay focused on coaching the game. IMO the NFL should make a decision - we re either going to be dedicated to getting the calls right and change our replay system or accept that replay slows down the game, accept that missed calls are part of the game and do away with replay altogether.

I agree that the college system makes more sense to me. The other change I'd like to see is to move to an NHL style review system, where the refs on the field aren't the ones having to overturn their own calls. Rather, there is a review group that is assigned to each game, and they do the reviews. So, the ref would put on headphones and be connected to the reviewers, and they would give him the decision. That way, it takes the human aspect of having to admit that you or one of your crew messed up and made a bad call. I think that would help get rid of the lack of overturning obvious bad calls.

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February 4th, 2012, 11:23 am
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Post Re: NFL may expand replay, automatically review end zone pla
I wish NFL would do more like college on rules, I think it would be good for NFL to do same ot except start from like the 50.

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February 5th, 2012, 1:51 am
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Post Re: NFL may expand replay, automatically review end zone pla
Touchdown Jesus wrote:
The Legend wrote:
even this rule change wouldnt be enough to neutralize the terrible performance by the refs in that game. the entire challenge system is flawed. when the league chose to have replay they essentially decided that the goal would be to get the calls right but this system limits that. who came up with the idea that each team can only challenge a max of 3 calls per game? was that based on statistical analysis involving the frequency of bad calls? if so maybe they should redo that analysis, ive seen it too many times when a coach is unsure what to do with a bad call early in the game bc they might run out later. is that why this replay system was designed - to create another level of strategy? does it really make sense for a coach to be right about a blown call but then to look at the replay and say "its not conclusive" and charge that team with a timeout? why is there a penalty for taking another look at a bad call - isnt it bad enough the ref made a bad call now u want to penalize that team even more bc the tv crews didnt have a perfect angle. then there is the rule of penalizing teams 15 yards for challenging plays that arent challengable? why so much strategy and risk/reward involved with this? I just dont understand why the system was designed this way, it seems insane to me.

The college system makes more sense to me - they end up reviewing not probably but definitely too many plays but they are more committed to getting them right and teams/coaches dont get penalized or have to hire extra people to review things - they can stay focused on coaching the game. IMO the NFL should make a decision - we re either going to be dedicated to getting the calls right and change our replay system or accept that replay slows down the game, accept that missed calls are part of the game and do away with replay altogether.

I agree that the college system makes more sense to me. The other change I'd like to see is to move to an NHL style review system, where the refs on the field aren't the ones having to overturn their own calls. Rather, there is a review group that is assigned to each game, and they do the reviews. So, the ref would put on headphones and be connected to the reviewers, and they would give him the decision. That way, it takes the human aspect of having to admit that you or one of your crew messed up and made a bad call. I think that would help get rid of the lack of overturning obvious bad calls.


+1 can't stand how long it takes the ref to review a call, figure out ball placement, etc., it's ridiculous and disrupts the flow of the game. That said, I don't see them changing it any time soon... It gives them more air time.


February 5th, 2012, 2:30 pm
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Post Re: NFL may expand replay, automatically review end zone pla
Put GPS in the ball. That would sort out spots and forward progress.

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February 6th, 2012, 10:23 pm
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Post Re: NFL may expand replay, automatically review end zone pla
thelomasbrowns wrote:
Put GPS in the ball. That would sort out spots and forward progress.

Um, GPS isn't accurate to the foot, or even the yard. I believe most GPS systems are said to be (at best) accurate to within 3 meters.

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February 6th, 2012, 10:27 pm
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Post Re: NFL may expand replay, automatically review end zone pla
Touchdown Jesus wrote:
thelomasbrowns wrote:
Put GPS in the ball. That would sort out spots and forward progress.

Um, GPS isn't accurate to the foot, or even the yard. I believe most GPS systems are said to be (at best) accurate to within 3 meters.


Um

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This football will tell you if it's a touchdown
Scientists put a microchip in the ball that can determine its exact location. There are still some bugs to work out.
January 29, 2011|By Sam Farmer
Scientists in Pittsburgh can make footballs talk.

Priya Narasimhan, an associate professor at Carnegie Mellon University, and her team of 10 engineering students have developed a "smart football" with a miniature GPS unit and accelerometer, both contained in a half-ounce microchip inside the ball.

The chip can measure factors such as ball speed, spin, trajectory and — even when it's buried under a pile of players — the precise location of the football.

The NFL is looking into the technology as a way to make officiating and game timing even more accurate.

Narasimhan and her team are not the only ones to have developed such a chip. According to a Reuters report, German manufacturer Cairos Technologies has been in talks with the NFL about putting its chips in footballs to determine, say, when the ball has crossed the goal line.

Cairos has done the same with soccer balls, creating a system of thin cables under the playing surface that generate magnetic fields that are picked up by sensors in the ball. That location information is transmitted to a central computer, which uses the data to determine when the ball has crossed the goal line. When a goal has been scored, the computer alerts the referee by transmitting a radio signal to his watch.

There are unique challenges to embedding a similar chip in an oblong football, Narasimhan said.

"You can't change the weight, the spiral, the torque or the feel of the football," she said. "It is really critically important, otherwise you've just ruined the whole purpose. And for that, it became really critical that we look at it from the mechanical engineering viewpoint."

Some of the challenges aren't immediately obvious to everyone. For instance, how do you charge a chip that's depleted of power very quickly? The students in Pittsburgh have developed an inductive-charging system similar to the one used for electric toothbrushes.

Then, there's fine-tuning the GPS to mark the precise spot, rather than within a few feet or yards. And the signal needs to be strong enough to pass through multiple bodies that might be covering the ball.

It also has to be done economically. The Pittsburgh engineering students say they could produce their chip for about $10.

Simply identifying whether a ball has broken the plane of the goal line isn't necessarily enough. If the player's knee touched the ground before the ball crossed the line, for instance, then it wasn't a touchdown. Narasimhan raises the possibility of putting chips in kneepads, elbow pads and gloves. In other words, it's all a work in progress.

But, she added, "Having something objectively tell you, 'This is what's happening to me,' is a thing of beauty."

sam.farmer@latimes.com

Copyright 2012 Los Angeles TimesTerms of Service|Privacy Policy|Index by Date|Index by Keyword

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February 6th, 2012, 10:53 pm
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Post Re: NFL may expand replay, automatically review end zone pla
thelomasbrowns wrote:
Touchdown Jesus wrote:
thelomasbrowns wrote:
Put GPS in the ball. That would sort out spots and forward progress.

Um, GPS isn't accurate to the foot, or even the yard. I believe most GPS systems are said to be (at best) accurate to within 3 meters.


Um

Quote:
This football will tell you if it's a touchdown
Scientists put a microchip in the ball that can determine its exact location. There are still some bugs to work out.
January 29, 2011|By Sam Farmer
Scientists in Pittsburgh can make footballs talk.

Priya Narasimhan, an associate professor at Carnegie Mellon University, and her team of 10 engineering students have developed a "smart football" with a miniature GPS unit and accelerometer, both contained in a half-ounce microchip inside the ball.

The chip can measure factors such as ball speed, spin, trajectory and — even when it's buried under a pile of players — the precise location of the football.

The NFL is looking into the technology as a way to make officiating and game timing even more accurate.

Narasimhan and her team are not the only ones to have developed such a chip. According to a Reuters report, German manufacturer Cairos Technologies has been in talks with the NFL about putting its chips in footballs to determine, say, when the ball has crossed the goal line.

Cairos has done the same with soccer balls, creating a system of thin cables under the playing surface that generate magnetic fields that are picked up by sensors in the ball. That location information is transmitted to a central computer, which uses the data to determine when the ball has crossed the goal line. When a goal has been scored, the computer alerts the referee by transmitting a radio signal to his watch.

There are unique challenges to embedding a similar chip in an oblong football, Narasimhan said.

"You can't change the weight, the spiral, the torque or the feel of the football," she said. "It is really critically important, otherwise you've just ruined the whole purpose. And for that, it became really critical that we look at it from the mechanical engineering viewpoint."

Some of the challenges aren't immediately obvious to everyone. For instance, how do you charge a chip that's depleted of power very quickly? The students in Pittsburgh have developed an inductive-charging system similar to the one used for electric toothbrushes.

Then, there's fine-tuning the GPS to mark the precise spot, rather than within a few feet or yards. And the signal needs to be strong enough to pass through multiple bodies that might be covering the ball.

It also has to be done economically. The Pittsburgh engineering students say they could produce their chip for about $10.

Simply identifying whether a ball has broken the plane of the goal line isn't necessarily enough. If the player's knee touched the ground before the ball crossed the line, for instance, then it wasn't a touchdown. Narasimhan raises the possibility of putting chips in kneepads, elbow pads and gloves. In other words, it's all a work in progress.

But, she added, "Having something objectively tell you, 'This is what's happening to me,' is a thing of beauty."

sam.farmer@latimes.com

Copyright 2012 Los Angeles TimesTerms of Service|Privacy Policy|Index by Date|Index by Keyword

I stand corrected. I was thinking of traditional GPS that is not that accurate. This must be some kind of specialized thing for the sport.

As a side note, it's really cool to see this stuff, especially since I did a project in school on sports and technology, and our recommendation was to incorporate technology into sports equipment to more accurately measure things like this. I had no idea it was so close to reality though.

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“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” - Neil deGrasse Tyson


February 7th, 2012, 12:33 am
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Post Re: NFL may expand replay, automatically review end zone pla
Touchdown Jesus wrote:
I stand corrected. I was thinking of traditional GPS that is not that accurate. This must be some kind of specialized thing for the sport.

As a side note, it's really cool to see this stuff, especially since I did a project in school on sports and technology, and our recommendation was to incorporate technology into sports equipment to more accurately measure things like this. I had no idea it was so close to reality though.


I saw something from Goodell recently and he was saying how people still really like some of the anachronisms of football, like moving the chains. I think that is standing in the way more so than technology.

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February 7th, 2012, 1:04 am
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Post Re: NFL may expand replay, automatically review end zone pla
thelomasbrowns wrote:
Touchdown Jesus wrote:
I stand corrected. I was thinking of traditional GPS that is not that accurate. This must be some kind of specialized thing for the sport.

As a side note, it's really cool to see this stuff, especially since I did a project in school on sports and technology, and our recommendation was to incorporate technology into sports equipment to more accurately measure things like this. I had no idea it was so close to reality though.


I saw something from Goodell recently and he was saying how people still really like some of the anachronisms of football, like moving the chains. I think that is standing in the way more so than technology.


I think you can't get rid of moving the chains but there has to be a better way.

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February 7th, 2012, 1:32 am
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Post Re: NFL may expand replay, automatically review end zone pla
That is some sort of RF Chip. Similar to the theft detection systems you see at the exits to a store. Only more advanced.The end zone pylons could be used as the sensor panels.


February 7th, 2012, 11:37 pm
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Post Re: NFL may expand replay, automatically review end zone pla
Touchdown Jesus wrote:
The Legend wrote:
even this rule change wouldnt be enough to neutralize the terrible performance by the refs in that game. the entire challenge system is flawed. when the league chose to have replay they essentially decided that the goal would be to get the calls right but this system limits that. who came up with the idea that each team can only challenge a max of 3 calls per game? was that based on statistical analysis involving the frequency of bad calls? if so maybe they should redo that analysis, ive seen it too many times when a coach is unsure what to do with a bad call early in the game bc they might run out later. is that why this replay system was designed - to create another level of strategy? does it really make sense for a coach to be right about a blown call but then to look at the replay and say "its not conclusive" and charge that team with a timeout? why is there a penalty for taking another look at a bad call - isnt it bad enough the ref made a bad call now u want to penalize that team even more bc the tv crews didnt have a perfect angle. then there is the rule of penalizing teams 15 yards for challenging plays that arent challengable? why so much strategy and risk/reward involved with this? I just dont understand why the system was designed this way, it seems insane to me.

The college system makes more sense to me - they end up reviewing not probably but definitely too many plays but they are more committed to getting them right and teams/coaches dont get penalized or have to hire extra people to review things - they can stay focused on coaching the game. IMO the NFL should make a decision - we re either going to be dedicated to getting the calls right and change our replay system or accept that replay slows down the game, accept that missed calls are part of the game and do away with replay altogether.

I agree that the college system makes more sense to me. The other change I'd like to see is to move to an NHL style review system, where the refs on the field aren't the ones having to overturn their own calls. Rather, there is a review group that is assigned to each game, and they do the reviews. So, the ref would put on headphones and be connected to the reviewers, and they would give him the decision. That way, it takes the human aspect of having to admit that you or one of your crew messed up and made a bad call. I think that would help get rid of the lack of overturning obvious bad calls.

Agree with this.

The other advantage of having 100% booth review is that they can begin the process of reviewing every play immediately after it ends. So if you still have a challenge flag system, once the flag is thrown it's a lot quicker to arrive at a decision - the review has begun even before the flag is thrown, its going on whilst the ref announces to the crowd that a play has been challenged, and there's none of the time wasted with the ref heading over to the monitor.

I think a 100% booth review system could work well with an expanded challenge flag system - eg 6 challenges per game (3 per half), first one per half is free, next 2 cost a potential time out. Seems to strike a good balance between keeping the game flowing, but allowing wrong calls to be corrected, to me.


February 8th, 2012, 7:01 am
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