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 WHY TEAMS MISSED THE BOAT ON S.ALEXANDER & E.JAMES 
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Pop Warner Allstar

Joined: April 6th, 2005, 11:50 pm
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Post WHY TEAMS MISSED THE BOAT ON S.ALEXANDER & E.JAMES
i understand that we are in a world of cap economics but to acquire an elite running-back of these 2, i believe you do whatever it takes to get them.
can you imagine philadelphia eagles with shaun alexander AS THEIR FEACTURE BACK.

***********************************************************
***********************************************************

SHAUN ALEXANDER:


(YEAR) (RUSH YDS) (RECEIVING YDS) (TD'S)

2001 1318 343 16
2002 1175 460 18
2003 1435 295 16
2004 1696 170 20

27 YEARS OLD

***********************************************************
***********************************************************

E.JAMES

(YEAR) (RUSH YDS) (RECEIVING YDS) (TD'S)

1999 1553 586 17
2000 1709 594 18
2001 662 193 03
2002 989 354 03
2003 1259 292 11
2004 1548 483 09

26 YEARS OLD

**********************************************************
**********************************************************

during the draft it was reported that several teams were interested in both ;however, they were not willing to even part with a 2nd round pick - i think that's nuts!!!!!!!

sitting at #8 in the draft arizona missed out on ronnie brown, cadillac williams and cedric benson (selected earlier) and were foolish for not acquiring james or alexander.

when you have the opportunity to acquire alexander - perhaps the 2nd best back in the league ( behind l.tomlinson only) you pull the trigger.

am i in the minority here or am i on the right train of thought ?


May 19th, 2005, 10:27 am
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I think Edge is overrated. I think he benefited from a great OL and great receivers drawing attention away from him.

Shaun Alexander is a great back, and Holmgren F'd up by not giving him one more down to win the title from Martin. Now, Alexander's pissed (plus the whole franchise issue...).

I think there's a lot of teams that should have considered trading for Alexander. Arizona being one. Once that Henry/Shelton trade was done for, they should have pressed for Alexander...or even Philly. They had enough draft picks to give up a couple picks for Alexander. Stupid of them not to IMO.


May 19th, 2005, 12:27 pm
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TOTALLY AGREE CONVERSATION -THANKS!!!!!!


May 19th, 2005, 1:33 pm
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conversion02 wrote:
I think Edge is overrated. I think he benefited from a great OL and great receivers drawing attention away from him.


I couldn't agree more. I would be willing to bet that had IND selected Ricky Williams instead, he would have had better career numbers than Edge. He almost does anyway, despite pissing away 2 seasons with NO.

conversion02 wrote:
or even Philly. They had enough draft picks to give up a couple picks for Alexander. Stupid of them not to IMO.


Yeah, how much leverage would Lurie and Reid have on TO right now if it were understood that he was the #3 stud on the offense?!

To be honest, I can never understand why Philly makes some of the moves they do. I guess it has sort of worked out for them, but aside from TO, they never look at add any kind of stars on the offense. Its like a flea market for them or something sometimes.

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May 19th, 2005, 2:25 pm
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Edge is not overrated. He is a great all around back more, versatile than Alexander and much better than Ricky Williams. I have no idea why teams are not going after these guys? Did they not see the turnaround in Carolina when Stephen Davis came in, both these guys are better than Davis and have more time left in their careers as well. I thought that the Vikings might take a shot since none of their RBs is reliable for a full season and the Eagles would be even tougher with an elite runner.


May 19th, 2005, 3:14 pm
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Edge was a solid back, but injuries have slowed him down. Alexander is still in his prime, but has showed some attitude issues as of late.

But when looking at one of these guys versus someone in the draft, you also have to weigh the effect on the cap. A vet like Alexander is going to carve out significant cap space while a rookie won't - at least not in the first few years of the deal.

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May 19th, 2005, 3:29 pm
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Runningbacks can be found anywhere. The difference between an elite back and a great back isn't much at all. Domanick Davis was a 4th round pick, commands little salary, and is a great back. Reuben Droughns was nothing in Detroit, but suddenly blossomed in Denver.

Teams can get a solid back in the mid rounds of the draft, and it will be FAR less expensive than to acquire Alexander or James. When you trade for one of those guys, you are trading for someone with an expensive deal, for only one year. You will have to renegotiate, and pay them top dollar. If you are a team w/o much salary cap space, then drafting that back in the second round is tempting.


May 19th, 2005, 4:04 pm
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It's true that you can find a back anywhere in the draft, but without certainty. A team like Philly, with Westbrook, could afford to take a chance on a mid-round draft pick, hoping he develops into a stud. But, a team like Arizona, with a glaring hole, needs to pick up, or a least try to pick up a known stud, like Alexander, if the opportunity is there. JMO

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May 20th, 2005, 7:16 am
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N8Dog wrote:
It's true that you can find a back anywhere in the draft, but without certainty. A team like Philly, with Westbrook, could afford to take a chance on a mid-round draft pick, hoping he develops into a stud. But, a team like Arizona, with a glaring hole, needs to pick up, or a least try to pick up a known stud, like Alexander, if the opportunity is there. JMO


Not if you can't afford him, and by taking a high priced runningback, ignore other holes on the roster, which the Cardinals have.


May 20th, 2005, 9:11 pm
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yes but the running game is still the most important part of football... alexander and james are much better backs than domanick davis, droughns or brian westbrook and even if they cost you some money you can save some of that with less expensive offensive lineman.


May 22nd, 2005, 1:56 am
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But, if you are a team like Arizona, do you go out and spend 6-7 million on a runningback (what Portis and Tomlinson are roughly making), knowing you have to go out, and fill holes at CB, DE, LB, QB, FS, and OT?

Giving James or Alexander that huge contract would only cause trouble for your team pursuing other free agents. Bye bye Chike Okeafor. Kurt Warner no more. It just hurts your team ways that are unimaginable.

Sure, you need a solid running game to excel. But giving a back top dollar isn't the way to go, when you have to fill other holes. Runningbacks are exchangable. Reuben Droughns who made jack squat had a season nearly the same as the 6.3 million dollar Clinton Portis. Ahman Green and Kevin Jones had nearly the same season last year. But Jones makes around 4.5 million less than Green. Domanick Davis is right there too.

Arizona made the right move by passing on these backs. They don't need all their cap sucked into one position, when they have numerous holes to fill. Arrington will have a solid season if he starts. He will be playing for less than a million dollars, and allows the Cardinals to fill a hole on their team for minimal cap charge. Which allows us to get guys like Okeafor and Warner.


May 22nd, 2005, 11:40 am
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Great point, Brian. It is not particularly novel, but it is right on. Quick fixes rarely ever work unless the team is on the brink, like Philly adding TO last year (still wasn't good enough). I also agree that RBs are becoming commodities in today's NFL. Droughns (and any other DEN RB) makes the perfect example. Portis is the perfect counter-example. WAS makes a huge investment in a Pro-bowl RB and he is still only as good as his Oline and the system he is a part of.

I think Arrington will be okay, but I think that ARZ should still be looking to add a starting RB at this point, provided the price is right. It will be interesting to see which RBs hit the waiver wire in about 10 days...maybe the Cards will be looking really wise when T. Henry gets released outright....

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May 22nd, 2005, 8:22 pm
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brian wrote:

Quote:
Arizona made the right move by passing on these backs


i respectively couldn't disagree more.
you have the chance to get one of the best running-backs in the league and you worry about money for okefor and warner - come on!!!!

arizona's offense with josh mccown (average), shaun alexander (elite),
larry fitzgerald (above average) & anquan boldin (probowl type wr) would be a formidible opponant.

r.droughns blossumed in denver like all backs do. he is probably like all the denver backs a product of the system. he won't do squat in cleveland.

you say kevin jones makes millions less then ahman green but don't you think he will make the huge contract himself if he continues to play at that level.

also brian you stated in an earlier post that dom davis is a great rb.
if he is such a great rb then why was houston trying to acquire another rb this off season.
imo he's not close to a great back. he's good, i'd say above average.

imho arizona has the opportunity to be a very good team in a very weak division.

jj arrinton probably should start over hambrick in week #1.
if he can't then god help your rb position.

like i say it's just my opinion and you are just stating yours.
either way i just see a team in need and not addressing a serious hole in the rb position.

it still blows my mind salary cap considerations and all that shaun alexander still hasn't received the attention he should from several teams in the nfl requiring a rb that still has cap room.
his stats don't lie.
he brings a force out of the back-field that must be addressed by all defenses.
can you imagine alexander behind that huge arizona o'line - i certainly can.


Last edited by 2005lion on May 24th, 2005, 10:22 am, edited 5 times in total.



May 23rd, 2005, 11:39 pm
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Quote:
larry fitzgerald (above average


I think he has the potential to be awesome.

Anyway, Arizona and JJ will be fine, espcecially with Denny G.

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May 24th, 2005, 8:51 am
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2005lion,

I just think that the value of runningbacks in the NFL is low. When teams like Denver can do what they do with their runningbacks, and yet giving a back an elite amount of money won't necessarily lead to success, then you pass on a back.

Reuben Droughns was great in Denver, and he wasn't the starter for the first few weeks. He nearly duplicated Clinton Portis' numbers in Washington. Washington spent around 6-7 million per year on Portis, and got 5 wins. Denver stayed cheap, and found a replacement. You don't have to go out and waste all your cap space on one player, as well as draft picks, when a replacement is much cheaper, and just as productive.

We don't know how good Arrington is going to be. If he is a 1200 yard back, then we will look back on this topic and laugh.

The acquisition of a quarterback was much more important than the acquisition of a top flight runningback. It's the quarterback that operates the offense, and when you have receivers like Arizona does, you need a quarterback first, one that will open up the running game. Had Arizona stuck with Josh McCown, they would continue to have one of the league's worst passing games.

Also, realize that the running game has much more to do with the offensive line and the scheme than the runningback itself. Arizona needed to go out and fix their line before they could get a back. They did so with the addition of Oliver Ross. If you get Alexander, you can't get Ross, and you have Alexander running behind an offensive line that Emmitt Smith couldn't get out of the backfield in.

Look what Warner did to Tiki Barber's numbers early on in the season in New York. Now imagine what he could do with more deadly receivers in Arizona, to J.J. Arrington.

The difference between what guys like Kevin Jones and Domanick Davis have done, with their below 1.5 million per year, and guys like Shaun Alexander has done, isn't big enough to spend 6-7 million on a runningback. It's not an important position. You can replace your runningback, and still be successful.

Also remember, that Seattle is a division rival of Arizona. They aren't going to let their all-pro runningback go to their rival for just a second round pick. No way that would happen.


May 24th, 2005, 8:01 pm
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