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 Steroids 
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First off, let me state that I am not a fan of baseball. I haven't seen a game live since I was 16 at Tigers stadium, and haven't watched a game since I was probably 17. Just lost all interest. I do watch the highlights evey now and then, pay attention to a little news but not what you would call a fan.

My question is: Does anyone really care if players were taking steroids? Personally I don't care for one reason....They were breaking no rules. There were no rules against taking them until last year (?) I assume that the fervent fan will say that it is against the moral fabric of the game, that any records set, broken or otherwise should be revoked due to the use of performance enhancing drugs or somthing to that effect. But realistically, what rules were broken?

Just wondering what some of the opinions are.


December 2nd, 2004, 7:45 am
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I'm also not a baseball fan but I do understand why baseball fans would care. Baseball is a game of history and statistics. It is tough enough to judge players from one generation to another. When you throw in performance enhancing drugs how do you then compare a player like Bonds to Ruth or Aaron?

Players feats are no longer determined by the players own merits, they are also impacted by these drugs.

I do care because there will still be a lot of kids who idolize these players and if they are using steroids, the kids will use them as well. It sets a terrible example for everybody.


December 2nd, 2004, 10:09 am
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I see that point, but who is to say that none of the players of old used some type of performance enhancing drugs? You could look through the history of sports and find some kind of drug use.


December 2nd, 2004, 10:14 am
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lionsfanak wrote:
I see that point, but who is to say that none of the players of old used some type of performance enhancing drugs? You could look through the history of sports and find some kind of drug use.


Ruth certainly didn't, unless you count booze. :lol:

I don't think these types of drugs were around until the late 70's/early 80's.

Another thing to consider is that you don't want everyone to start looking like the East German woman of the 80's Olympic teams.


December 2nd, 2004, 10:31 am
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No, Ruth certainly didn't.

But if you consider the fact that testosterone has been synthesized since 1935 and used in people ranging from the German solders in the battlefield to being "widely used in competitive sports since the 1940's" , just who is to say what athletes have and which have not? One thing I wonder about is the effect of steroids on hand-eye coordination.

As far as the children that may see this as a benefit, I am keeping my discussion to the adults that are in pro sports. I would not like to see this kind of thing become popular with children, as well as adults.


December 2nd, 2004, 10:54 am
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there is no way the majority of old timers took anything near these highly effective performance enhacing drugs. Its terrible and baseball is a total joke for it. Long live the NFL :arrow:

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December 2nd, 2004, 11:09 am
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I love how all of a sudden Bud Selig is tough on Roids. What a joke...even El Presidente Bush commented on this b4 calling out MLB...when the big Bush is ahead of you and he is running a country you know you are not doing your job.

Sosa(Corky if you will) = Cheater + I would guess roids...he was a skinny crap early on.
Bonds = Obvious Roider
Mcgwire = Andro...now not legal

Those were/are the biggest names in MLB and it is a complete joke. MLB is starting to dip below the integrity of professional wrestling :lol:

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December 3rd, 2004, 11:12 am
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Bonds admitted to a grand jury late yesterday or this morning that he did in fact take steroids. He claims, however, that he wasn't aware that he was taking them. Now that totally deflates the home run record when he breaks it - the holy grail of baseball stats.


December 3rd, 2004, 11:28 am
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OMG...I have been using Flax Seed oil on my weewee...no wonder it's HUGE!

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December 3rd, 2004, 11:30 am
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Bonds admitted to a grand jury that he did in fact take steroids. He claims, however, that he wasn't aware that he was taking them. (see story below) Now that totally deflates the home run record when he breaks it - the holy grail of baseball stats.

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - Barry Bonds testified to a grand jury that he used a clear substance and a cream given to him by a trainer who was indicted in a steroid-distribution ring, but said he didn't know they were steroids, the San Francisco Chronicle reported Friday.

Bonds told the federal grand jury last year that Greg Anderson, his personal trainer, told him the substances he used in 2003 were the nutritional supplement flaxseed oil and a rubbing balm for arthritis, according to a transcript of his testimony reviewed by the Chronicle.

The substances Bonds described were similar to ones known as "the clear" and "the cream," two steroids from the Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative, the lab at the center of the steroid scandal.

Bonds' attorney, Michael Rains, said the leak of grand jury testimony was an attempt to smear his client. Grand jury transcripts are sealed and the Chronicle did not say who showed them the documents.

"My view has always been this case has been the U.S. vs. Bonds, and I think the government has moved in certain ways in a concerted effort to indict my client," Rains told the newspaper. "And I think their failure to indict him has resulted in their attempts to smear him publicly."

Calls to Rains' office from The Associated Press went unanswered Thursday night.

Tony Serra, Anderson's lawyer, said Anderson "never knowingly provided illegal substances to anyone."

The Chronicle story is the latest development this week in the more than yearlong BALCO probe. On Thursday, the paper reported Yankees slugger Jason Giambi told the grand jury he injected himself with human growth hormone in 2003 and also used steroids for at least three seasons.

Before the Bonds story was even published, U.S. Attorney Kevin Ryan said his office was concerned about the leaks to the Chronicle and asked the Justice Department to investigate.

Also, ABC News and ESPN the Magazine released excerpts of interviews with Conte, in which the BALCO founder admits to watching Olympic star Marion Jones inject herself in the leg with human growth hormone. Jones' attorneys denied she ever used performance-enhancing drugs. Conte's interview with ABC's "20/20" program will air Friday night.

Dozens of elite athletes testified before the grand jury last year, including baseball stars Bonds, Giambi and Gary Sheffield, and track stars Jones, Tim Montgomery and Kelli White.

The probe led to some athletes being banned from the Olympics and left a cloud of suspicion over others, such as Jones, who were allowed to compete despite the investigation.

But Bonds is the biggest star of all, the holder of baseball's single-season home run record of 73 in 2001 and the man who could break Hank Aaron's career homer mark of 755 as early as next year. Bonds ended last season with 703 homers and won his record seventh NL Most Valuable Player award.

It is uncertain what punishment, if any, Bonds could receive from baseball, which didn't have penalties for steroid use until last year.

While discipline is spelled out for positive tests and criminal convictions from 2003 on, admission of illegal steroid use is not addressed, possibly giving baseball commissioner Bud Selig an opening to punish Bonds.

Selig repeatedly has called for year-round random testing and harsher penalties, but management and the players' association have failed to reach an agreement. The contract runs through the 2006 season.

"I've been saying for many months: I instituted a very, very tough program in the minor leagues on steroids in 2001. We need to have that program at the major league level," Selig said Thursday in Washington, D.C. "We're going to leave no stone unturned until we have that policy in place by spring training 2005."

Prosecutors confronted Bonds with documents dating to his record-setting season of 2001 that allegedly detailed his use of many drugs, including human growth hormone, steroids and insulin. He said he believed he only used legal products to treat arthritis and fatigue.

Bonds danced around questions, saying he couldn't explain a calendar with the name "Barry" on it; he had never seen a bottle that says Depo-Testosterone; he had never heard of the drugs Clomid, modafinil and trenbolone; and he couldn't pronounce EPO.

Bonds testified that he didn't think any of the substances worked but kept using they out of loyalty to Anderson. He also said he never consulted with the Giants about what Anderson gave him.

"No way ... we don't trust the ball team," Bonds said. "We don't trust baseball. ... Believe me, it's a business. I don't trust their doctors or nothing."

Sheffield also testified to the grand jury that Bonds arranged for Anderson to give him "the clear," "the cream," and another steroid from Mexico, but also said he did not know they were steroids.

Bonds said he never paid Anderson for drugs or supplements but did give the trainer $15,000 in cash in 2003 for weight training and a $20,000 bonus after his 73-homer season.

Bonds said that Anderson had so little money that he "lives in his car half the time." Asked by a juror why he didn't buy "a mansion" for his trainer, Bonds answered: "One, I'm black, and I'm keeping my money. And there's not too many rich black people in this world. There's more wealthy Asian people and Caucasian and white. And I ain't giving my money up."


December 3rd, 2004, 11:32 am
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I never meant to inply that the majority of the old timers used anything. By the same token, I haven't implied that the majority of today's players are. Just, at least up til now, a few. I imagine we will hear more in the months to come.


December 4th, 2004, 5:41 am
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I think that Jason Giambi should be banned for good. I mean look, Pete Rose was only gambling and he got permanently banned from the MLB. Rose didn't do anything to help his team win unfairly while Giambi was killing homeruns becuase of those illegal drugs. This makes me hate the Yankees even more. I bet you any money that Gary Sheffield is taking the crap too.

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December 5th, 2004, 5:54 pm
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I actually believe that Sheffield admitted it as well, but all those players are going to go out and say "Yeah, I took it, but I didn't know it was a steroid, and I didn't know it was helping me". That seems like the popular alibi for the players, so they don't get into trouble.


December 5th, 2004, 5:57 pm
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I read a bit on Hank Aarons take...he used to be a defender of Bonds until this stuff came out. He was pretty miffed about it...sounding like more about what it is doing to the game rather than cheaters breaking his record. If they do not clean up the game it is a joke. That being said the fear maybe that SOOO many players are on the juice that the Tigers would be one of the top teams :shock:

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December 6th, 2004, 2:24 pm
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all these guys are a joke. i'm so glad its baseball and not football. i'm sure some guys in the nfl, like romanowski, are on the juice but it seems much more isolated thanks to the nfl's policy.


December 7th, 2004, 1:12 pm
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