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 Candidates to replace Carr 
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Play by Play Announcer - Al Michaels

Joined: October 15th, 2005, 9:00 am
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Location: Greensboro, NC
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wjb21ndtown wrote:
mwill2 wrote:
A few general observations: The guy is stubborn beyond belief--he will make the same mistakes repeatedly. He does not make halftime adjustments. Ever. His teams are NOT built for coming from behind. These things will make you crazy.


Sounds like he'll fit right in!!!


That said, I have to wonder if he got "man handled" by Pitt because WV is small and doesn't have the talent that other schools have? Rodriguez seemed to do more with less, and he will likely have more talent at U of M.


The fact that he's not an old coot is enough for me to get excited about.


Well the advantage of being a Michigan, OSU, USC, whatever is that you can recruit players with rare size. WVU, like other schools in the Big East, can't get the guys with rare size--so they get the guys with speed. That's my roundabout way of saying that the WVU players are small but that doesn't make them untalented.

Anyway, the Pitt game was not about being less talented or even about being smaller. Have you seen Pitt play in the last two years? They are god awful and not particularly big with the exception of Otah. Rodriguez got outcoached--that's why they were manhandled. Pitt ran the ball 52 times (compared to 19 passes) but Rodriguez insisted on keeping two safeties deep throughout the game--not a single attempt to put an extra guy in the box. WVU's 3-3-5 was getting exposed and dude didn't even attempt to try something different.

Again, there will be lots of exciting days ahead for Michigan. When Rod's offense clicks, it is a lot of fun to watch. UM is going to score a lot of points once the system is in place for a year or two. I'm just reporting what I've experienced for the past seven years. WVU fans have been very happy with the guy because he brought a level of success and excitement WVU had never experienced. The expectations in Ann Arbor are much higher and the pressure is much greater. In my opinion, this is a coach that does not handle pressure very well.


December 18th, 2007, 3:27 am
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mwill2 wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
mwill2 wrote:
A few general observations: The guy is stubborn beyond belief--he will make the same mistakes repeatedly. He does not make halftime adjustments. Ever. His teams are NOT built for coming from behind. These things will make you crazy.


Sounds like he'll fit right in!!!


That said, I have to wonder if he got "man handled" by Pitt because WV is small and doesn't have the talent that other schools have? Rodriguez seemed to do more with less, and he will likely have more talent at U of M.


The fact that he's not an old coot is enough for me to get excited about.


Well the advantage of being a Michigan, OSU, USC, whatever is that you can recruit players with rare size. WVU, like other schools in the Big East, can't get the guys with rare size--so they get the guys with speed. That's my roundabout way of saying that the WVU players are small but that doesn't make them untalented.

Anyway, the Pitt game was not about being less talented or even about being smaller. Have you seen Pitt play in the last two years? They are god awful and not particularly big with the exception of Otah. Rodriguez got outcoached--that's why they were manhandled. Pitt ran the ball 52 times (compared to 19 passes) but Rodriguez insisted on keeping two safeties deep throughout the game--not a single attempt to put an extra guy in the box. WVU's 3-3-5 was getting exposed and dude didn't even attempt to try something different.

Again, there will be lots of exciting days ahead for Michigan. When Rod's offense clicks, it is a lot of fun to watch. UM is going to score a lot of points once the system is in place for a year or two. I'm just reporting what I've experienced for the past seven years. WVU fans have been very happy with the guy because he brought a level of success and excitement WVU had never experienced. The expectations in Ann Arbor are much higher and the pressure is much greater. In my opinion, this is a coach that does not handle pressure very well.


MWill, I'm not saying that WVU players arent talented, I'm saying that typically (and I'll admit that it's on reputation and university specific/university advantage) U of M has a stronger recruiting class. That is, they get higher talented players (regardless of size) coming out of HS.


December 18th, 2007, 3:41 am
Commissioner of the NFL – Roger Goodell
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Thanks for the input, mwill2. The only thing that really worries me though is his 3-3-5 defense. He's going to have to adjust it in the Big Ten, whether he wants to or not. Hopefully, he won't be too stubborn to realize it.

As for the talent issue, wjb is right. It's no knock on West Virginia, but Michigan consistently lands a top ten recruiting class every year. Rodriguez is going to have more talent to work with here plain and simple. For instance, I checked the ESPN top 150 list yesterday and Michigan had 5 verbals while West Virginia only had one. In addition, UM has a decent chance of landing another 5 of them before National Signing Day.

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December 18th, 2007, 9:03 am
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Play by Play Announcer - Al Michaels

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Quote:
Thanks for the input, mwill2. The only thing that really worries me though is his 3-3-5 defense. He's going to have to adjust it in the Big Ten, whether he wants to or not. Hopefully, he won't be too stubborn to realize it.

As for the talent issue, wjb is right. It's no knock on West Virginia, but Michigan consistently lands a top ten recruiting class every year. Rodriguez is going to have more talent to work with here plain and simple. For instance, I checked the ESPN top 150 list yesterday and Michigan had 5 verbals while West Virginia only had one. In addition, UM has a decent chance of landing another 5 of them before National Signing Day.


I agree with Sly. I want to thank you for the input as well, mwill2. Hopefully, Coach Rod won't choke as many games away at UM because his talent will trump that of WVU's. Everyone and their brother has praised his offense, but as Sly stated, the 3-3-5 defense needs to be scrapped or readjusted. I honestly think that Rich would be wise to keep Ron English on the staff. His input on base defenses plus his understanding of the personnel would be invaluable. I hope Rich is flexible on this.

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December 18th, 2007, 11:25 am
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They're not very happy in Morgantown right now. One of the local radio stations put out a song parody about Rodriguez leaving. To listen to it, click on the link to their radio station and select, Hear The Coach Rod Parody Song "You Oughta Know". It will pop up on Windows Media Player.

http://www.wajr.com/

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December 18th, 2007, 12:18 pm
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Joined: October 13th, 2005, 10:34 am
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Quote:
I could probably also argue that he owes his career to Pat White. His record at WVU without Pat White is 33-22, 0-3 in bowl games.



Quote:
But I'm not letting him off the hook for choking in games the team NEEDED to win over the last two years



WAIT A MINUTE!!!

If you are going to give Pat White ALL of the CREDIT for Rich's successes........then you have to give Pat White a BIG SHARE of the BLAME in Rich's failures as well.


Considering that he was 3-8 in his first year at WVU without ANY of his own players........that means that he was 30-14 without Pat White after year #1 at WVU.

That is not that bad.......ESPECIALLY when you consider that BIG EAST was still "big" at that time with Miami, B.C., and Va Tech all still being there. From 2002-2004.......12 of his 13 losses came against GOOD teams like Wisconsin (x2), Maryland (x3), Miami (x2), Va Tech, Virginia, B.C., FSU, and Pitt.

FYI......

Pitt was 10-3 that season and went to Fiesta Bowl.
Wisconsin has been good for a while.
Maryland was 21-6 during those 2 years they played.
Miami was STILL a national title contender (20-5 those 2 years).
Va Tech has been very good this whole decade (10-3 in 2004).
Even FSU was still good at the time (9-3) in 2004.
B.C. was 9-3 that year (2004).
Virgina was 9-5 in 2002 against 11th toughest schedule.


This is pretty QUICK success for a guy who changed systems at a school not known as a recruiting POWER......by any stretch of the imagination. Pat White had nothing to with his early success either.


Quote:
dude choked in crucial games. USF earlier this year, USF and Lousiville last year, etc.


I don't think losing to USF is black eye anymore.

USF is 18-7 in the last 2 years.........and their losses are almost all to decent teams themselves. They have lost to Rutgers (x2), Cinci (x2) Louisville, Kansas, and UConn. ALL of thsoe teams have been RANKED in the top 15 at some point in the last 2 years!

USF also has a LOT of TALENT!


And Louisville last year?

Louisville had as good of offense as ANYBODY in the country last year. They also had more TALENT across the board than WVU did as well.



It seems like maybe you had VERY high expectations for a team that was playing with LESS talent than many of the teams competing for a national title. While you don't want "to let him off the hook" for a few losses in recent years, consider what he has accomplished:

While the loss to Pitt was certainly heartbreaking......it is only the 2nd loss in the last 6 years to an opponent that has won LESS than 7 games in that season!!!



Now consider the disappointments under Lloyd Carr at Michigan:

#1.......been UNRANKED in 2 of last 3 years!
#2.......lost 5 of his last 6 bowl games. (5-7 overall bowl record)
#3.......lost 6 of last 7 games against OSU.
#4.......finished season ranked in top 10 in only 6 of 13 seasons.
#5.......Lost 4 games or more in a year 5 times in 13 years.
#6.......finished 5-4 against Notre Dame
#7.......Lost to Northwestern 3 times!
#8.......Lost to Appalachian State!



I'd have to say there has been MORE to be disappointed about here at Michigan over the last 6 years.........especially when you consider that the EXPECTATIONS should be so much higher.
[/b]


December 18th, 2007, 1:21 pm
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Play by Play Announcer - Al Michaels

Joined: October 15th, 2005, 9:00 am
Posts: 1839
Location: Greensboro, NC
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slybri19 wrote:
Thanks for the input, mwill2. The only thing that really worries me though is his 3-3-5 defense. He's going to have to adjust it in the Big Ten, whether he wants to or not. Hopefully, he won't be too stubborn to realize it.

As for the talent issue, wjb is right. It's no knock on West Virginia, but Michigan consistently lands a top ten recruiting class every year. Rodriguez is going to have more talent to work with here plain and simple. For instance, I checked the ESPN top 150 list yesterday and Michigan had 5 verbals while West Virginia only had one. In addition, UM has a decent chance of landing another 5 of them before National Signing Day.


The 3-3-5 sucks. You're right Sly, he'll have to adjust. He should have adjusted at WVU but that's a different matter.

And there's no question that Michigan can land recruits that WVU can't land. I just have a problem with the word "talent." It is such a stupid word because it is totally meaningless. What is it? Personally I don't believe that talent exists. If you can't measure something, it isn't real.

My point is that in the Big 10, the players are big. There are not many high school players with great size AND athleticism so they end up going to top programs like UM, OSU, USC, Texas, etc. I'm certainly not in denial about this. I just disagree with calling it talent. Schools like WVU, that can't land the guys with elite size, tend to recruit great speed (which is easier to find than size).

Don't get me started on the "5-star" and other rating systems for recruits. If WVU and Pitt are recruiting a guy in Western PA he'll never be rated more than a 3-star recruit. As soon as OSU or another big program shows interest in him, he becomes a 5-star recruit. It is total BS.


December 18th, 2007, 2:27 pm
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Play by Play Announcer - Al Michaels

Joined: October 15th, 2005, 9:00 am
Posts: 1839
Location: Greensboro, NC
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phunnypharm wrote:
Quote:
I could probably also argue that he owes his career to Pat White. His record at WVU without Pat White is 33-22, 0-3 in bowl games.



Quote:
But I'm not letting him off the hook for choking in games the team NEEDED to win over the last two years



WAIT A MINUTE!!!

If you are going to give Pat White ALL of the CREDIT for Rich's successes........then you have to give Pat White a BIG SHARE of the BLAME in Rich's failures as well.


Considering that he was 3-8 in his first year at WVU without ANY of his own players........that means that he was 30-14 without Pat White after year #1 at WVU.

That is not that bad.......ESPECIALLY when you consider that BIG EAST was still "big" at that time with Miami, B.C., and Va Tech all still being there. From 2002-2004.......12 of his 13 losses came against GOOD teams like Wisconsin (x2), Maryland (x3), Miami (x2), Va Tech, Virginia, B.C., FSU, and Pitt.

FYI......

Pitt was 10-3 that season and went to Fiesta Bowl.
Wisconsin has been good for a while.
Maryland was 21-6 during those 2 years they played.
Miami was STILL a national title contender (20-5 those 2 years).
Va Tech has been very good this whole decade (10-3 in 2004).
Even FSU was still good at the time (9-3) in 2004.
B.C. was 9-3 that year (2004).
Virgina was 9-5 in 2002 against 11th toughest schedule.


This is pretty QUICK success for a guy who changed systems at a school not known as a recruiting POWER......by any stretch of the imagination. Pat White had nothing to with his early success either.


Quote:
dude choked in crucial games. USF earlier this year, USF and Lousiville last year, etc.


I don't think losing to USF is black eye anymore.

USF is 18-7 in the last 2 years.........and their losses are almost all to decent teams themselves. They have lost to Rutgers (x2), Cinci (x2) Louisville, Kansas, and UConn. ALL of thsoe teams have been RANKED in the top 15 at some point in the last 2 years!

USF also has a LOT of TALENT!


And Louisville last year?

Louisville had as good of offense as ANYBODY in the country last year. They also had more TALENT across the board than WVU did as well.



It seems like maybe you had VERY high expectations for a team that was playing with LESS talent than many of the teams competing for a national title. While you don't want "to let him off the hook" for a few losses in recent years, consider what he has accomplished:

While the loss to Pitt was certainly heartbreaking......it is only the 2nd loss in the last 6 years to an opponent that has won LESS than 7 games in that season!!!



Now consider the disappointments under Lloyd Carr at Michigan:

#1.......been UNRANKED in 2 of last 3 years!
#2.......lost 5 of his last 6 bowl games. (5-7 overall bowl record)
#3.......lost 6 of last 7 games against OSU.
#4.......finished season ranked in top 10 in only 6 of 13 seasons.
#5.......Lost 4 games or more in a year 5 times in 13 years.
#6.......finished 5-4 against Notre Dame
#7.......Lost to Northwestern 3 times!
#8.......Lost to Appalachian State!



I'd have to say there has been MORE to be disappointed about here at Michigan over the last 6 years.........especially when you consider that the EXPECTATIONS should be so much higher.
[/b]


Phunny--I said that it is obvious that he left the program better than he found it. He put WVU football on the map. I get it. I've been going to WVU games since 1980 so I know where the program was under Don Nehlen.

Does this mean that WVU fans should be content with finishing in the top-25 even if the NC game is within reach? Is it OK to climb a mountain but never reach the peak? That's how I see Rod's tenure at WVU.

The trend I have noticed is that when PRESSURE is on, his teams under-perform. I am dubious about his ability to win the games that UM fans are going to insist he win: OSU, ND, bowl games, etc. I hope I'm wrong--I like UM and want to see good things happen there. I'm simply reporting what I have seen with my own eyes, live and in person, for the past seven years.


December 18th, 2007, 3:07 pm
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Joined: October 13th, 2005, 9:03 am
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The thing is to run his offense he doesn't need the top recruits every year like nearly all spread formation offenses he will need the best athletes. The guys that might not be the best players at their positions but that are pure athletes. Zook has done a good job doing it in Illinois and Rodriquez might be able to as well. But it's hard to get those California, Texas, and Florida kids to leave for a cold climate.


December 18th, 2007, 7:02 pm
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