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 A plan to survive the Obama years 
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Touchdown Jesus wrote:
That being said, it's a little ridiculous to assign credit or blame to the president for the economy. Presidents can't make policy.


Yes, many economic factors outside a President's control determine the course of the economy. Clinton held office during a boom in information technology (not just the dotcom bubble, but the worldwide adoption of the internet, which improved processes and commerce immensely), and cheap oil (making it super easy and cheap to ship stuff). Clinton and a Republican Congress were able to keep federal spending in check and deserve a lot of credit for that.

Presidents can have a big effect on the economy though.

They can start wars on false assumptions that rack up half a trillion (and counting) dollars in debt. They can burn through the budget surplus they inherited to beef up the federal government. They can drive us $700 billion further in debt giving it away to mismanaged banks (Bush, Obama, and McCain all supported the big bailout, don't forget).

Maybe Obama's not going to be a fiscally responsible President, maybe the national debt is going to grow to finance his policies. But he'll have to be quite a terrible free-spender to drive us as far into debt as we've gone under Bush. And even if he does, at least he wants to spend money on infrastructure, schools, transportation, stuff that helps us here at home. At least those spending items oughta be more productive than spending half a trillion dollars (and counting) turning a desert country on the other side of the world (who, as it turns out, wasn't collaborating with Al-Qaeda or building WMD's after all) from dictatorship to anarchy to fragile democracy.


December 16th, 2008, 10:56 am
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I love how you post this as we live out the last few days of the worst president in history. You just owned yourself.


December 21st, 2008, 8:42 pm
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faulkn22 wrote:
I love how you post this as we live out the last few days of the worst president in history. You just owned yourself.


I love how people are ready to dismiss Bush II as the worst President in history before enough time has passed to do so. Consider this, when Reagan was in office many thought him to be the worst Pres in history, now some 20 years later he's looked at in a much different light (same could be said for FDR and many others). Basically, what I'm saying is let history determine the role Bush II's Presidency will be. Sure he may seem to be the worst (so far) in many of our lifetimes, but that doesn't necessarily make it the truth (and IMO it's pretty conceited to think that just because some of our generation deem him the worst, then he is). Truth is, we will not know how GWB will be viewed in history for another 20-30 years.

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December 22nd, 2008, 9:22 am
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I'm pretty sure as soon as Bush was rated at a 23% approval rating he went down as the worst (right there with the congress). His only saving grace was that we weren't attacked during his second term. Seriously, that is it as far as positives of Bush II, 9/11 only happened once (and that event will always be tied to him anyways). Good luck with digging him out of his hole.

People want to complain about Obama even though he isn't president yet. It's like you people are oblivious to the fact that the last 8 years have been abysmal and we are much worse of now than we were before hand.


December 22nd, 2008, 11:08 am
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Wags, I agree 100%. It is way too early to make that kind of judgment. I personally don't like Bush and don't think he's been a good president, but I wouldn't even try to rank him as worst ever. At least not yet. There are so many things that aren't known yet, and can't be known for some time.

Faulk, approval ratings do not determine the success or failure of a presidency. Besides, as Wags pointed out, all presidents get good and bad ratings. Besides, the top 2 highest approval ratings are George W. Bush (92%) and George H. W. Bush (89%). By your rationale that means that W is simultaneously the best and worst president of all time. :lol:

As for your statement that 9/11 will forever be tied to Bush, you're right in the sense that it happened while he was president. But anyone who isn't an ideologue or hardcore partisan understands that the blame for 9/11 stretches back much further than just Bush and crosses multiple presidencies. It can be argued that it goes all the way back to Carter.

Saying anything is the best or worst of all time is always very subjective, and to do it in reference to something that is currently happening is pretty much impossible.

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December 22nd, 2008, 11:26 am
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I can agree that I'm wrong maybe in saying he is the worst ever, no doubt, time has to pass before we know this 100%. But to say that he had a great rating is irrelevant (I never said a positive rating made you the best, you are putting words in my mouth), it was at the beginning of his term and we were just attacked. Who wants to hate the president when you can hate the terrorist? Check out this link to verify what I'm talking about (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01345.html). You're right, an approval rating is only a snapshot in time of the views of the public.

We were attacked and his approval rating skyrocketed. I was one of those people that didn't even have time to think about Bush because I was too busy thinking about going off to war.

I've heard people try to blame 9/11 on Clinton, but never anyone think of going near as far as blaming Carter. That in and of itself is hilarious, seeing as Al Qaida wasn't founded until 1988 and the Taliban was in power from 1996-2001. I'd really love to hear how you correlate Carter ('77-'81) and 9/11.

So I guess you're right, I can't sit here and say that Bush is the worst president in the history of the United States. I'll have to wait until I have grandchildren to claim that. What I can say (facts) is that our national debt has went up, our budget is in deficit now, the dollar's value decreased exponentially, we have lost jobs and increased the unemployment rate, home prices have plummeted, we may lose all 3 domestic American brand auto manufacturing, and we will have spent 3 trillion on a war to eliminate WMD's that didn't exist. If that isn't right there with the worst leaders ever, then I have no clue how you can fudge up things worse. By your logic, we shouldn't call Marinelli the worst lions coach ever, because enough time hasn't passed by and he could still win one game...


December 22nd, 2008, 12:13 pm
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faulkn22 wrote:
I can agree that I'm wrong maybe in saying he is the worst ever, no doubt, time has to pass before we know this 100%. But to say that he had a great rating is irrelevant (I never said a positive rating made you the best, you are putting words in my mouth), it was at the beginning of his term and we were just attacked. Who wants to hate the president when you can hate the terrorist? Check out this link to verify what I'm talking about (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01345.html). You're right, an approval rating is only a snapshot in time of the views of the public.

We were attacked and his approval rating skyrocketed. I was one of those people that didn't even have time to think about Bush because I was too busy thinking about going off to war.

I've heard people try to blame 9/11 on Clinton, but never anyone think of going near as far as blaming Carter. That in and of itself is hilarious, seeing as Al Qaida wasn't founded until 1988 and the Taliban was in power from 1996-2001. I'd really love to hear how you correlate Carter ('77-'81) and 9/11.

So I guess you're right, I can't sit here and say that Bush is the worst president in the history of the United States. I'll have to wait until I have grandchildren to claim that. What I can say (facts) is that our national debt has went up, our budget is in deficit now, the dollar's value decreased exponentially, we have lost jobs and increased the unemployment rate, home prices have plummeted, we may lose all 3 domestic American brand auto manufacturing, and we will have spent 3 trillion on a war to eliminate WMD's that didn't exist. If that isn't right there with the worst leaders ever, then I have no clue how you can fudge up things worse. By your logic, we shouldn't call Marinelli the worst lions coach ever, because enough time hasn't passed by and he could still win one game...

The correlation to Carter is that he signed the first US directive supporting the Afghan Mujahedeen in opposition to the Soviets. That was the correct decision in my opinion. The part where it got screwed up was in how we handled things after the Soviets were driven from Afghanistan. That actually occurred under Reagan, but the process began under Carter. I'm not saying that as blaming him, I'm just saying that when you track the timeline of exactly what happened, it started during the Carter administration. There have been mistakes made all along the way, by Reagan, Bush Sr., Clinton, and Bush Jr. None of the administrations is free from some of the blame for 9/11. It was building for a long time and can't be assigned as simply as just pointing the finger at one person.

All the statistics you cited are true, and Bush has been a bad president in my opinion. I'm not arguing that he's good. I'm just saying that saying anything is the best or worst ever is almost impossible to do in the moment it is happening. Particularly with presidents, since the true impact of many of their policies is often not known for several years after they leave office.

Your comment about Marinelli doesn't hold up though. Losing football games is not at all analogous to a presidential legacy. Sports is very cut and dry. You win or you lose. Politics is not so simple.

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December 22nd, 2008, 1:06 pm
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Sports is very cut and dry. You win or you lose. Politics is not so simple.


Wouldn't that make it easier to call Marinelli the worst?

I do see where you are coming from though.


December 22nd, 2008, 1:16 pm
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faulkn22 wrote:
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Sports is very cut and dry. You win or you lose. Politics is not so simple.


Wouldn't that make it easier to call Marinelli the worst?

I do see where you are coming from though.

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that I didn't think Marinelli was the worst. I think he probably is. It's tough to say for sure because he was saddled with the worst GM in history, so it may not all be his fault. But even a bad coach should win at least 1 game, so I guess it is safe to say that he's the worst. At best, he's tied for last place. :lol:

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December 22nd, 2008, 1:24 pm
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