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RIP Killer
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Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 am
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Thanks for the clarification Mike, and as far as people who are in this country illegally - I totally agree. Times have changed as well.

I have considered a dual citizenship, but there are few benefits. Basically the only drawback is I can't vote. Because I travel overseas often, I prefer to carry a Brittish passport for a number of reasons. First and foremost, I have an easier time getting into most countries and there is a lower terror threat against the Brittish citizens than those of the US. Secondly (and more selfishly), I find the lines much shorter when I return to the US through the international lines than for US citizens returning home. Third, I can pretty much live anywhere in Europe (with the EU) as well as the US, it is cool having that option even if I am unlikely to ever move there.

The oath for becomming a US citizen starts off:

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I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen.


As of now, I refuse to state that under oath - I don't feel I should renounce and abjure all allegiance to my country of birth to become a citizen. I would be happy to state my allegiance to the US under oath, but not turn my back completely on my homeland. That is my only objection to the oath, some might call it being picky. I have no problem with embrassing American life or defending the country/consititution, but I wouldn't ever renounce my alligiance to England or the US for that matter - I'm sure none of you could imagine doing the same thing regarding the US.

If the wording of the oath were to change, I would then apply for citizenship or dual citizenship.

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June 10th, 2005, 11:51 am
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RIP Killer
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Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pm
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Paul,
Were I in your shoes, I would feel the same way. I understand the benefits of having the British citizenship. I also understand not wanting to renounce allegiance to that country. That part of the oath is absurd.

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June 10th, 2005, 12:18 pm
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Fired Head Coach (0-16 record)
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Joined: January 6th, 2005, 10:54 am
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That oath is ancient, people have been wanting to change it for a while now. I don't know if they want to change the meaning or just the wording (who uses prince or pontentate?). I agree that it is too much to ask that you announce your allegiance to England. They should be more focused on declaring allegiance to America in the oath.


Mike, the only thing I have been trying to say is that everyone in the world deserves certain rights, no matter if they are born in America or Iran, no matter if they are Mother Tresea or a mobster. I also believe that rights such as free speech etc, do come from God. The Constitution is a contract between citizens to protect their security and also the rights they would have in a state of nature, which would be given by God through our free will.


About illegal immigration, I wish the Mexian government would get off their butts and do something about their country. Maybe try to improve the economy and standard of living so people wouldn't want to come here. Just my two cents.

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June 10th, 2005, 12:27 pm
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Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 am
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bsand2053 wrote:
About illegal immigration, I wish the Mexian government would get off their butts and do something about their country. Maybe try to improve the economy and standard of living so people wouldn't want to come here. Just my two cents.


Did you realize that Mexico has been handing our cartoon-type books illustrating how to get across the border illegally??? They were talking about it on the news here in AZ not too long ago.

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June 10th, 2005, 12:39 pm
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RIP Killer
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Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pm
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Bsand, I understand your point of view. Technically everyone on the planet has freedom of speech. The Constitution (technically) protects that right without negative response by the judicial system or government. Does true freedom of speech actually exist in this country? No. Try walking into a bank and yelling 'Hold up', or going into a theatre and yelling 'Fire'. There are borders and measures that have to be put into place to protect against disregard for safety.

It would be nice if the freedoms outlined in the Constitution were indeed God given, and that no country or government could deny them. However, that is not the case as we well know.

As you stated, the Constitution is a contract between citizens. Therefore, it should be the citizens who fall under the protection of that contract. It should also be the decision of the citizens to whom those protections will be afforded if they fall outside the boundaries of that contract. Were it my decision, terrorists and their supporters here illegally would be jailed without process and ultimately dumped onto the Arctic Circle wearing nothing but boxer shorts and carrying a toothbrush.

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June 10th, 2005, 12:57 pm
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Joined: March 22nd, 2005, 8:42 pm
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The idea of an inalienable right does not seem to conform with your reasoning. I guess it is basically a religious idea of moral principle that justice stands higher than the law, or the agreement among citizens.

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June 10th, 2005, 1:17 pm
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