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 Cy Young 
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Post Cy Young
Verlander got his 19th win and leadthe league in strikeouts by a mile. In my opnion he deserves the award.

Anybody have any arguements with that and who and why?

And Porcello for rookie of the year. :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:


October 5th, 2009, 10:33 am
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Post Re: Cy Young
jomo269 wrote:
Verlander got his 19th win and leadthe league in strikeouts by a mile. In my opnion he deserves the award.

Anybody have any arguements with that and who and why?

And Porcello for rookie of the year. :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:


Greinke deserves it more than Verlander.

Grienke knows how to pitch, which is something Verlander has yet to do.

In order, my picks would be:
1) Grienke
2) CC Sabathia
3) J. Verlander


October 5th, 2009, 12:05 pm
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Grienke
Felix
Verlander
Sabathia

In that order. No denying what Grienke did. Felix is a close second. Both on teams with scrub hitters (outside of Suzuki and Butler). Sabathia is overrated and shouldn't be in consideration. Verlander should NOT get it because ZG and FH are both superior pitchers. They PITCH all the time, Verlander throws when he gets in trouble.

When JV gets jammed, he rears back and throws the cheese as hard as he can. He doesn't pitch like the other two. Granted, JV can throw the cheese a lot better than ZG or FH, he also doesn't use "the art of pitching" as Rod Allen calls it.

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October 5th, 2009, 1:53 pm
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Greinke was pretty awesome this season. If he played on an average team, much less a good team, he would have easily had 20 wins this season. He did more with a bad team than Verlander with an avg team and CC with a good team. Man I hate calling the Yankees a good team...but they are this season.

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October 5th, 2009, 3:47 pm
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Post Re: Cy Young
jomo269 wrote:
Verlander got his 19th win and leadthe league in strikeouts by a mile. In my opnion he deserves the award.

He also has, by far, the most innings pitches and pitches thrown.


jomo269 wrote:
And Porcello for rookie of the year. :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:


Porcello deserves it by far IMO. The top AL rookie, especially for a pitcher. The most notable fact, he got much, much better as the season progressed. When it came to crunch time, he was pretty much clutch. That speaks volumes and separates him from the guys who choked down the stretch.

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October 5th, 2009, 4:14 pm
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conversion02 wrote:
Grienke
Felix
Verlander
Sabathia

In that order. No denying what Grienke did. Felix is a close second. Both on teams with scrub hitters (outside of Suzuki and Butler). Sabathia is overrated and shouldn't be in consideration. Verlander should NOT get it because ZG and FH are both superior pitchers. They PITCH all the time, Verlander throws when he gets in trouble.

When JV gets jammed, he rears back and throws the cheese as hard as he can.
He doesn't pitch like the other two. Granted, JV can throw the cheese a lot better than ZG or FH, he also doesn't use "the art of pitching" as Rod Allen calls it.


I agree 1000%, and it really bothers me. I have heard that JV is an egotistical maniac, and it sure seems true by his actions. He would seemingly rather try to strike out players for his indivdual stats, than get outs for the win. If nothing else it is undeniable that he fails to respect the fact that he has a team behind him that is pretty damn good defensively, and he fails to attempt to use any of their help... The kid is a great thrower, but a poor pitcher. At the end of the day it equals a good player, but his shortcomings are mental/ego, and those are the most frustrating type...


October 6th, 2009, 1:59 am
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Post Re: Cy Young
wjb21ndtown wrote:
jomo269 wrote:
Verlander got his 19th win and leadthe league in strikeouts by a mile. In my opnion he deserves the award.

Anybody have any arguements with that and who and why?

And Porcello for rookie of the year. :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:


Greinke deserves it more than Verlander.

Grienke knows how to pitch, which is something Verlander has yet to do.

In order, my picks would be:
1) Grienke
2) CC Sabathia
3) J. Verlander


Verlander knows how to pitch. But, he should sue for a lack of support. Seams like every time he pitches, the Tigers hitters only manage to get him 1 run.


October 6th, 2009, 11:12 pm
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I have heard that JV is an egotistical maniac, and it sure seems true by his actions. He would seemingly rather try to strike out players for his individual stats, than get outs for the win.

That is quite possibly the most asinine statement I have ever heard.
And just who told you that? Someone that was talking out their rectum?
The person who told you that most likely doesn't know JV from the man on the moon.

We have one of the most dominating pitchers in all of baseball, and some people just want to degrade him because of who knows what.


October 6th, 2009, 11:21 pm
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Post Re: Cy Young
BillySims wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
jomo269 wrote:
Verlander got his 19th win and leadthe league in strikeouts by a mile. In my opnion he deserves the award.

Anybody have any arguements with that and who and why?

And Porcello for rookie of the year. :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:


Greinke deserves it more than Verlander.

Grienke knows how to pitch, which is something Verlander has yet to do.

In order, my picks would be:
1) Grienke
2) CC Sabathia
3) J. Verlander


Verlander knows how to pitch. But, he should sue for a lack of support. Seams like every time he pitches, the Tigers hitters only manage to get him 1 run.


By throwing 97 mph fastballs when he gets into trouble? He throws 10 of them in a row. Hitters sit back and wait for them. Look at the pitchers who consistently use everything they've got - Grienke, Hernandez, Peavy, Carpenter, Wainwright, Feldman, etc. Those are pitchers who work a hitter, not just throw as hard as they can and hope they swing at the cheese at the chest.

Don't get me wrong, I think Verlander is a stud and he's the real deal, but he needs to PITCH when he gets into jams, not just throw the ball as hard as he can. That's the kind of poop Rodney does.

It's also part of the reason that when Verlander gets jammed in the 6th inning, he gives up a couple runs, because he doesn't pitch, he throws.

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October 7th, 2009, 8:58 am
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totally disagree about these verlander comments. he is an amazing all around pitcher that happens to throw harder and with more endurance than all the others mentioned. he is an extremely rare talent. you guys can call him a thrower all you want but his command of his hard stuff is excellent, hes not just reaching back and slinging it ala Matt Anderson. when u get in jams with runners on base - strikeouts are the best way to escape as contact can advance and score runners. just because he has the the best velocity doesnt mean he is a thrower. i personally think that he improved quite a bit this year - mostly a result of his improved command of the strike zone.


October 21st, 2009, 1:13 am
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We're splitting hairs here with Verlander, which I guess you have to do to crown the Cy Young. JV is in the top 5 of all starting pitchers in MLB, do I think he was the Cy Young this year...No. He still has that one inning every game where he struggles at least a little bit. Once he clears that inning up he will be my choice year in and year out for Cy Young. Great Pitcher, just not elite yet.


October 21st, 2009, 8:06 am
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The Legend wrote:
when u get in jams with runners on base - strikeouts are the best way to escape as contact can advance and score runners. just because he has the the best velocity doesnt mean he is a thrower. i personally think that he improved quite a bit this year - mostly a result of his improved command of the strike zone.


I don't disagree with that portion of it at all. However, I do think that his reliance is with the cheese when he gets into a jam. If he could rely on a Grienke-type curve to go along with the cheese, he'd be better off. When he gets jammed, he goes 6 or 7 straight fastballs without throwing a breaking ball. Look at Bulger the other night. Full counts, bottom of the 8th, tie game in the ALCS...struck out the last two batters on multiple NASTY curves. It'd be pretty shocking if JV even throwing 1 breaker in a position like that. It's that same mentality that ruined EJ in the 2nd half, IMO. He got away from his secondary pitches and relied on his heater. When he got into jams, it'd be 10 heaters in a row. We saw what happened when he did that to the Konerko's, Mauer's, Morneau's, etc.

I think Verlander is top 5 in all of ball, but I think he needs to further develop that ability to get even more offspeed and get better bite on his secondary pitches. He's improved greatly on those this year, but his velocity difference is only about 15 mph tops from heaters to breakers. Grienke has a 22-23 mph difference. That's a huge difference and could lead to even more K's for JV.

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I have no faith this team will win a game the rest of the year. The kitties finish at 7-9 and Miss the playoffs as GB wins out and takes it from the kitties.
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October 21st, 2009, 2:32 pm
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BillySims wrote:
I have heard that JV is an egotistical maniac, and it sure seems true by his actions. He would seemingly rather try to strike out players for his individual stats, than get outs for the win.

That is quite possibly the most asinine statement I have ever heard.
And just who told you that? Someone that was talking out their rectum?
The person who told you that most likely doesn't know JV from the man on the moon.

We have one of the most dominating pitchers in all of baseball, and some people just want to degrade him because of who knows what.



It was from his girlfriend... I've heard similar comments eluding to that from his teammates as well, and he certainly acts that way (i.e. being aloof, sporting his "avaitors," making condecending comments to the media)... When someone says something along the lines of "that's just Justin being Justin" or "you can't even talk to him on game day" or "I just give him his space when he gets like that" it points to someone that is self-absorbed and egotistical. The guy even pitches that way. He's a control freak that doesn't want to rely on OTHERS to help him win a game. He wants to go out there and throw his fast ball, even when its getting hit left and right, opposed to throwing something with some movement on it that has a better chance of being popped up or grounded into a double play...


October 21st, 2009, 3:54 pm
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Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pm
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however he does it, he s better at striking people out than anyone else in the league, i dont care what pitch hes better at using to get it to happen. maybe he could get a couple more grounders but at what benefit? he showed no signs of wearing down and was a major inning eater

as for ej, he lost command of his secondary pitches as well as his fastball. its pretty tough to throw breaking stuff when ur behind in the count. it was not purely deciding what pitch to throw that led to his 2nd half drop off


October 21st, 2009, 5:22 pm
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Another thing about Verlander, he is throwing at the same speed after 100 pitches as he was at pitch one, sometimes even stronger at the end. You don't lead the majors in Ks by just throwing hard. He has had ininnings were he has strugled. but he has obviously gotten through alot of those innings or he wouldn't have led the league in Ks and wins especially with the meger run support he recieved.


October 21st, 2009, 5:33 pm
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