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 Cy Young 
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My point of contention is that he HAS these bad innings because he doesn't "pitch," he JUST throws and he just goes out there and tries to strike everyone out. When you have a guy at first and one out, it sure is nice to strike out the next two batters, but its just as nice and just as effective to get someone to ground into a double play. That's something that JV RARELY does. He'd rather throw a 100mph fast ball right down the middle. "Here it is, see if you can hit it..." but the problem is, a LOT of these batters CAN hit it, and they DO hit it, especially when they KNOW its coming.

In that scenario throwing something that has some movement on it, something that is hard to hit well, would be the best pitch at the time. JV often does the exact opposite...


October 21st, 2009, 5:47 pm
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wjb21ndtown wrote:
My point of contention is that he HAS these bad innings because he doesn't "pitch," he JUST throws and he just goes out there and tries to strike everyone out. When you have a guy at first and one out, it sure is nice to strike out the next two batters, but its just as nice and just as effective to get someone to ground into a double play. That's something that JV RARELY does. He'd rather throw a 100mph fast ball right down the middle. "Here it is, see if you can hit it..." but the problem is, a LOT of these batters CAN hit it, and they DO hit it, especially when they KNOW its coming.

In that scenario throwing something that has some movement on it, something that is hard to hit well, would be the best pitch at the time. JV often does the exact opposite...


If that was the case, his ERA would be a lot higher. And, he would have lost a lot more games.

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October 21st, 2009, 8:59 pm
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wjb21ndtown wrote:
My point of contention is that he HAS these bad innings because he doesn't "pitch," he JUST throws and he just goes out there and tries to strike everyone out. When you have a guy at first and one out, it sure is nice to strike out the next two batters, but its just as nice and just as effective to get someone to ground into a double play. That's something that JV RARELY does. He'd rather throw a 100mph fast ball right down the middle. "Here it is, see if you can hit it..." but the problem is, a LOT of these batters CAN hit it, and they DO hit it, especially when they KNOW its coming.

In that scenario throwing something that has some movement on it, something that is hard to hit well, would be the best pitch at the time. JV often does the exact opposite...


u may be on to something, i checked on some numbers and verlander's opp b avg w runners in scoring position isnt up to par w greinke, hernandez even jackson

maybe its a pitch selection/attitude/strategy thing as u suggest or maybe he s just not as good pitching out of the strecth - not sure but ill look for this next season


October 21st, 2009, 11:51 pm
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The Legend wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
My point of contention is that he HAS these bad innings because he doesn't "pitch," he JUST throws and he just goes out there and tries to strike everyone out. When you have a guy at first and one out, it sure is nice to strike out the next two batters, but its just as nice and just as effective to get someone to ground into a double play. That's something that JV RARELY does. He'd rather throw a 100mph fast ball right down the middle. "Here it is, see if you can hit it..." but the problem is, a LOT of these batters CAN hit it, and they DO hit it, especially when they KNOW its coming.

In that scenario throwing something that has some movement on it, something that is hard to hit well, would be the best pitch at the time. JV often does the exact opposite...


u may be on to something, i checked on some numbers and verlander's opp b avg w runners in scoring position isnt up to par w greinke, hernandez even jackson

maybe its a pitch selection/attitude/strategy thing as u suggest or maybe he s just not as good pitching out of the strecth - not sure but ill look for this next season


That's what I've been saying for months. He's gotten worse in doing that every year. When bases juiced with no outs, sure, he gets out of that jam often, but not as often as Grienke, Felix, etc. JV sticks with the high cheese as his go-to pitch.

I personally think it's an attitude issue (and lack of of confidence in his secondary pitches). He's so reliant and so confident in his fastball, he tries to throw it to good high-fastball hitters like Jermaine Dye...and what to they do? Hit a 2 or 3 run double. His go-to high cheese gets him out of a lot of jams, but not everyone is a Brandon Inge and swings at the letter-high cheese.

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October 22nd, 2009, 2:17 pm
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so if he cleans this up, how good can he be?

also just to point out, porcello was one of the top2 in inducing double plays as well as groundball/flyball ratio. i think he is going to be just as unstoppable as verlander soon.


October 22nd, 2009, 9:07 pm
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