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 2010 draft 
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Player of the Year - Defense

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Whoever we pick is going to have unrealistic expectations latched to them. Its unavoidable. Being down for so long, the next first rounder is always supposed to make an immediate visual impact or he's questioned. Look at Pettigrew. One of the toughest positions to transition to the pro's, and even though he missed alot of camp, he made big strides, but wasn't given early credit for his contribution to the running game. Because the TE is often overlooked by those not looking specifically at the position, it went unnoticed very often. Once he made contributions in the passing game that people couldn't help but see, then he got praise.

BPA is the only option at this point. Unless the Rams beat the 49ers, our first pick isn't decided by us. We obviously don't need a QB, so every other need has to be ignored that early. Like m2k said, there's no secondary position worth the #2 money. BPA is how good teams draft consistently, regardless of need. So unless we can trade down (which i'm hoping for), BPA will decide the first and possibly 2nd pick.

Our defense has alot of holes, as well as the OL and RB. What's available and who's willing to sign in FA will help decide alot before the draft. But ignoring Free Agency and looking at current roster and the draft, here's why I think barring a trade, it'll be Suh or Mccoy.

The only time we got a consistent push or middle containment was when it was Hill and Jackson at DT. Cohen, Flu, and J. Cohen were all very inconsistent. They had their moments but moments don't win games. How long do you expect Jackson to be here? Will he even be here in 2010? We need a Stud DT to pair with Hill or we'll have line troubles forever.

DE was absent this year. Hunter showed promise, Avril had moments, but again moments don't win games. Like m2k said, the DE's are responsible for outside containment in our system, with the secondary responsible if they break down. With no real DE presence, were our corners second guessing too much and then getting beat deep? Or could the secondary really be that bad on its own? I know they were horrendous in coverage and not making excuses for them, but its something to think about. I wouldn't be completely suprised if Morgan or another DE that wows at the combine is in the equation for the #2 pick.

CB... don't even know where to start. The CB class is weak this year, and with as much time as it takes develop a corner that's not starting ready (they will be on our team), they're going to have to make some moves in FA or hope for lucky mid/late round gems at the position. Or they increase the Dline to the point that mediocre secondary play will do the job. If we can lower the time opposing QB's have to scan the field, we might not to have a drastic improvement at CB this year (although mediocre play will actually be a drastic improvement).

Oline. We need at least one OG, and developing a LT if they can't get a replacement immediately is imperative. I think they'll try FA, or a mid round pick or 2.

RB. With K Smith's injury, this position took a higher priority than prior to the injury. We have no idea how he'll come back from it, so depending on trade options and FA, this might end up being our 2nd round pick. If not 2nd, i wouldn't be surprised at a BPA option early in the 2nd day. Brown is more of a 3rd down open space back but might get bigger and make an splash next year. We might retain Morris also, so this position is up in the air.

WR is actually a need. We don't need to draft early thank god, but I wouldn't put it past them using the 2nd or 3rd round pick on a weapon. CJ needs someone to take a little attention off him. Pettigrew became that distraction before he went down to injury. BJ, DW, Northcutt, etc.. were all bodies out there and a waste. FA might fix this, but we'll have to see.

LB should be set if foote resigns, but we still need someone. Peterson played better at DE than SLB, and Sims is still a question mark. Levy wasn't a huge surprise, but he definitely outplayed my expectations.

TE is set, QB is set. So besides these 2...we have needs at every position, so BPA can't really go wrong at any position minus those 2. It'll be interesting to see how rankings and players move up and down between now, the bowls, senior bowls and the combine. Its going to be an interesting off season to say the least.


December 29th, 2009, 1:10 am
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Very well said NJROAR.

What you said is exactly true.

And based on what you said, it gives another reason why you just cannot pass on Ndamukong Suh if hes there (and we dont trade). As of now, NOT picking him would just be plain stupid.

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December 29th, 2009, 3:25 pm
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njroar wrote:
The only time we got a consistent push or middle containment was when it was Hill and Jackson at DT. Cohen, Flu, and J. Cohen were all very inconsistent. They had their moments but moments don't win games. How long do you expect Jackson to be here? Will he even be here in 2010? We need a Stud DT to pair with Hill or we'll have line troubles forever.


All true. Gunther (I think Schwartz as well) has talked about the value of having a veteran mentor for young players. I suspect that we'll have Jackson, or some other veteran, filling one of the DT spots for the next year or two. Hill is young and raw with tons of room for improvement. Yes, Fluellen and Cohen are both inconsistent. The are also both second year players in their first year in a new system. I think it's too early to give up on them. Perhaps that's wishful thinking on my part, but it sure would be nice if we developed young players for a change. Beyond that, players who can get push and middle containment can be had in the middle to late first round on a fairly regular basis. Haloti Ngata, BJ Raji, Vince Wilfork to name a few recent ones.

njroar wrote:
BPA is the only option at this point. Unless the Rams beat the 49ers, our first pick isn't decided by us. We obviously don't need a QB, so every other need has to be ignored that early. Like m2k said, there's no secondary position worth the #2 money. BPA is how good teams draft consistently, regardless of need. So unless we can trade down (which i'm hoping for), BPA will decide the first and possibly 2nd pick.


Slight disagreement with you here. Good teams (New England) determine BPA based on player ability, positional value, fit with in a scheme, etc. However, they do not totally disregard need. If the best player doesn't fit a need they try to either trade down or if they have another player, at a position of need, rated high enough, they selected that player. What they don't do is reach for a player that is way out of the value range of that draft position (Millen/Al Davis).

Because Detroit has so many needs, I believe, that their preferred option is to trade down if they get a reasonable offer. Failing that, they will select a player that fills a glaring need IF one grades out high enough. Berry, Morgan, and Okung are a few of the players that potentially grade out high enough. Given that the DTs are playing fairly well, combined with the youth of Hill, Fluellen, and Cohen and the coaching staffs stated desire for veteran mentors, Suh or McCoy IMO are likely the last resort.


December 29th, 2009, 10:27 pm
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steensn wrote:
But whether Suh is a once and a lifetime Guy or not right now is conjecture from either position. I think it surely seems like it from what we've seen so far, which is all we can go off of. Yes, the senior bowl and combine assure or kill the thought. But for right now, food looks like a beast.


That, sir, was the main point I was trying to get across. I could have written the original post about any number of players. Drafting Okung doesn't seem likely; Derrick Morgan hasn't gotten enough hype to be considered a serious option yet; I cringe at the thought of drafting a running back that high; so that ruled Spiller out. That left Berry as the option who might be good enough (and hyped enough) to possibly be taken as a serious alternative (or so I thought). Oh well, I still like him as an option. At least a few people here seem to get that someone might emerge as a viable option by the time the draft rolls around. I keep having thoughts of the chorus of "Suh is our savior" turning into chants of "Suh suxs." Didn't really expect to change anyone's mind... worth a try though. Players who try, but just aren't that good (Backus, Raiola) don't deserve the abuse they take from Detroit fans. Not their fault someone drafted them to high and paid them to much. Besides, I've been lurking for a looong time.... figured if I was going to finally jump in, I might as well stir the pot a little. :twisted:


steensn wrote:
But about the coolaid... the only fans left are coolaid drinkers. Besides those too drunk to know better(wags), too busy with young kids to realize the lions suck(Pablo),gay(sly), busy working and living life in Cali(me)... everyone else is hooked up to a coolaid drip bag. Only people left who care about the lions. Bunch of people with serious issues. So coolaid or not, this guy WILL be the one to turn the Lions around and you won't convince us otherwise... just like joey, roy, k smith, rogers, etc were that guy... and you change our jacked up minds ;)

:shock: Can I be the guy who is to stoopid to drink the pain relieving koolaid instead of a guy with serious issues. :)


December 29th, 2009, 11:49 pm
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Hey as long as Mayhew and Schwartz aren't taken in by it too much, I say let the Suh hype roll! That way, if he's there at number 2, we can't lose--some teams will be so taken by him that they'll offer a nice trade, or we pick him and have a top prospect on defense.

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December 30th, 2009, 11:24 am
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steensn wrote:
gay(sly)

I see someone is still bitter that I questioned their manhood for watching Dancing With The Stars, huh? :lol:

As for a team trading up to get Suh, I just don't see it. Since the Ricky Williams trade, no team has traded up into the top 5 for a position other than QB. They simply don't want to pay that kind of money for any other position unless they have to (i.e. they're stuck with the pick and can't trade out of it).

Whoever is selected at #2 is going to receive either a 5 year, $60M or a 6 year, $72M contract. The only exception would be a QB who would demand close to a $10M premium above that. The only veteran players that can command that type of money are QBs, LTs, DEs, and CBs, with DT Haynesworth being an exception. From a financial perspective, those are the only positions you can draft that high, but crazier things have happened.

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December 30th, 2009, 12:01 pm
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I find it ridiculous to think the Lions would ignore the drafting a top DT in this years draft because the ones they have now may be inconsistent, but are young and need time to develop. PUHLEASE!!!
Sammy Hill is the only one I would place in that category. Fluellen and Cohen are just bodies. One was a 3rd round pick that was considered a reach and the other was a 7th. Millen drafting. Ignore the line of scrimmage.
I don't care which one of the top DT's the Lions take, either one is an improvement. They have different skill sets, but both bring an awful lot to the table. I just don't see it being them taking a DB at 2. It just isn't done. The last time a 2 was used on a DB was 91. The highest a safety was taken in recent history was Sean Taylor at 5 in 04.

Courtesy of CBSSports.com
Draft History
Year Round Pick Overall Pick Team Name Position College
2008 1 2 2 Rams Chris Long DE Virginia
2007 1 2 2 Lions *Calvin Johnson WR Georgia Tech
2006 1 2 2 Saints *Reggie Bush RB Southern Cal
2005 1 2 2 Dolphins Ronnie Brown RB Auburn
2004 1 2 2 Raiders Robert Gallery OT Iowa
2003 1 2 2 Lions Charles Rogers WR Michigan State
2002 1 2 2 Panthers Julius Peppers DE North Carolina
2001 1 2 2 Cardinals Leonard Davis OT Texas
2000 1 2 2 Redskins LaVar Arrington LB Penn State
1999 1 2 2 Eagles Donovan McNabb QB Syracuse
1998 1 2 2 Chargers Ryan Leaf QB Washington State
1997 1 2 2 Raiders Darrell Russell DT Southern Cal
1996 1 2 2 Jaguars Kevin Hardy LB Illinois
1995 1 2 2 Jaguars Tony Boselli OT Southern Cal
1994 1 2 2 Colts Marshall Faulk RB San Diego State
1993 1 2 2 Seahawks Rick Mirer QB Notre Dame
1992 1 2 2 Colts Quentin Coryatt LB Texas A&M
1991 1 2 2 Browns Eric Turner DB UCLA
1990 1 2 2 Jets Blair Thomas RB Penn State
1989 1 2 2 Packers Tony Mandarich OT Michigan State
1988 1 2 2 Chiefs Neil Smith DE Nebraska
1987 1 2 2 Colts Cornelius Bennett LB Alabama
1986 1 2 2 Falcons Tony Casillas DT Oklahoma
1985 1 2 2 Falcons Bill Fralic OT Pittsburgh
1984 1 2 2 Oilers Dean Steinkuhler OT Nebraska
1983 1 2 2 Rams Eric Dickerson RB SMU
1982 1 2 2 Colts Johnie Cooks LB Mississippi State
1981 1 2 2 Giants Lawrence Taylor LB North Carolina
1980 1 2 2 Jets Lam Jones WR Texas
1979 1 2 2 Chiefs Mike Bell DE Colorado State
1978 1 2 2 Chiefs Art Still DE Kentucky
1977 1 2 2 Cowboys Tony Dorsett RB Pittsburgh
1976 1 2 2 Seahawks Steve Niehaus DT Notre Dame
1975 1 2 2 Cowboys Randy White DT Maryland
1974 1 2 2 Chargers Bo Matthews RB Colorado
1973 1 2 2 Colts Bert Jones QB LSU
1972 1 2 2 Bengals Sherman White DE California
1971 1 2 2 Saints Archie Manning QB Mississippi
1970 1 2 2 Packers Mike McCoy DT Notre Dame
1969 1 2 2 Falcons George Kunz OT Notre Dame
1968 1 2 2 Bengals Bob Johnson C Tennessee
1967 1 2 2 Vikings Clint Jones RB Michigan State

Everyone knows the draft is a crap shoot, there are no guarantees. I would rather take my chances on a highly rated DT than a questionable S.

From pro football weekly:

1. Eric Berry, Tennessee (Jr.)
5-10½e, 205e, 4.45e

An athletic, physical and rangy ballhawk who plays bigger than his size, Berry shows the short-area burst, closing speed and instincts desired to make an immediate impact in the pros and could bring additional value as a nickel cornerback. He possesses a wiry, cornerback-type build and could benefit from added bulk — he bounces off some tackles and misses a fair amount in space. Nonetheless, he has a great nose for the ball, is seldom out of position and has a knack for making the big play. He's tough, intense, competitive and very productive. The only serious question is whether he will be able to withstand the contact that he so aggressively initiates, having already needed shoulder surgery and lacking girth.


December 30th, 2009, 12:04 pm
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wjb21ndtown wrote:

I agree with that 100%. I'm not saying that we should draft a CB, SS, or DE with the #2 overall pick, I'm just saying that I think people are going overboard with this "Suhperbowl"... or this "Suh is our saviour" crap. People make it sound like he's going to stop the run, get more pressure on the Qb, take pressure off of the DE's making them better, by getting more pressure on the Qb improve our secondary, and BOOM... It's all going to be better on the defensive side of the ball... And all for the low low price of about $60 million dollars...


I would love to have Suh on the team, but I agree that people are just too "ga-ga" over him right now. If he's there then the Lions will snag him, if he's not I would hope the Lions take Gerald McCoy. While I understand the hype on Suh, I have never understood the hype on Eric Berry. I watched more than a couple Tennessee games, and I came away unimpressed. I saw missed tackles and missed coverage a number of times. I may have been that the coverage was not his responsibility, but at least a couple times it was. And it's not like it came against NFL quality opponents.

wjb21ndtown wrote:
That's hardly the case (aside from the price tag). That said, if we're stuck at #2 overall, barring some dramatic rise on the draft charts, we have to take him because there isn't a DE, CB or SS on the board ranked that high. I would, however, rather trade down (even though I was called crazy for it earlier, because Suh is such a "can't miss" prospect, and a "once in a decade player" :roll: ), and pick up a Taylor Mays or Morgan somewhere in the 4-13 range.


There will be quite a bit of shuffling before the draft. Brandon Graham went from being considered a high second round pick to now being ranked as a top fifteen prospect in a matter of a couple months. I have seen some sites that rank him as the best DE prospect overall. I am thoroughly entrenched in the "trade down" camp, but it won't happen. Not with that high of a pick. Not unless the Lions are willing to accept less than face value (chart) for the pick.

wjb21ndtown wrote:
Do you guys realize that if we pick #2 overall that we're going to have CJ, Stafford and Suh all with approximately $50-$60 million dollar contracts? That isn't how you build a football team. That is a very small collection of very talented individuals... I doubt it will win us many games...


Yes, I realize that and so do some others. This is exactly why the idea of not having a rookie cap, or slotting system, in place before 2012 is stupid. With rookies demanding such high salaries, the teams picking high in the draft are at a distinct disadvantage. If there were no salary cap at all, it wouldn't be an issue. Teams having to dedicate so much money to unproven draft picks have less to spend on proven free agents. Like the Lions, too much money is dedicated to rookies, and God help those teams if the rooks not pan out.

I need only look at how things are handled in New England. They attempt to move into positions where the draft holds the best value. They may not get the absolute best talent out of the draft, but very often they get substantial value for their investment, and the sheer number of players they come away with ensure that they will at least get some players who can contribute and develop. Philly has done the same thing a few times. These are teams that don't take players for this year, but are taking them for the future years. If they come in and prove themselves to be better than the projected starter, then so much the better. If they don't pan out, so be it, move on with who they have. And other than their "star" players, the Pats don't dedicate a tremendous amount of money to role players. An excellent business philosophy that has kept them at the top of the NFL for over a decade now.


December 30th, 2009, 12:15 pm
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m2karateman wrote:
Yes, I realize that and so do some others. This is exactly why the idea of not having a rookie cap, or slotting system, in place before 2012 is stupid. With rookies demanding such high salaries, the teams picking high in the draft are at a distinct disadvantage. If there were no salary cap at all, it wouldn't be an issue. Teams having to dedicate so much money to unproven draft picks have less to spend on proven free agents. Like the Lions, too much money is dedicated to rookies, and God help those teams if the rooks not pan out.

I need only look at how things are handled in New England. They attempt to move into positions where the draft holds the best value. They may not get the absolute best talent out of the draft, but very often they get substantial value for their investment, and the sheer number of players they come away with ensure that they will at least get some players who can contribute and develop. Philly has done the same thing a few times. These are teams that don't take players for this year, but are taking them for the future years. If they come in and prove themselves to be better than the projected starter, then so much the better. If they don't pan out, so be it, move on with who they have. And other than their "star" players, the Pats don't dedicate a tremendous amount of money to role players. An excellent business philosophy that has kept them at the top of the NFL for over a decade now.


A rookie cap is all well and good, but its not the system in which we currently operate. I'd do whatever I could to move out of the #2 spot...


December 30th, 2009, 5:37 pm
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OK, I'm officially on the draft Barnes wr from bgsu. Dude is a massaque type wr who I thought would be a steady NFL wr.

He needed 4 receptions to break the NCAA record of receptions in a season... he got 17 this game giving him 155 for the year. He's another QB turned WR that seems to work well.

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December 30th, 2009, 10:28 pm
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liontrax wrote:
I find it ridiculous to think the Lions would ignore the drafting a top DT in this years draft because the ones they have now may be inconsistent, but are young and need time to develop. PUHLEASE!!!


I didn't say that. What I did say is that DT isn't the ideal position for us... we have more there than at some other positions (sad as that is). A stand out DE or OT would be ideal. As it stands right now, if the Lions are stuck with the pick, I'd draft Suh!!! If, in the final analysis, someone else also grades out as being worthy of a #1 or #2 (at a position were we have even less talent), then, and only then, I'd take that other player.

I also said (in the next post) that Berry was merely a conversation starter. I used him because I thought that he was the one player people would take as a legit possibility (partially because of the hype surrounding him).


December 31st, 2009, 1:03 am
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steensn wrote:
OK, I'm officially on the draft Barnes wr from bgsu. Dude is a massaque type wr who I thought would be a steady NFL wr.

He needed 4 receptions to break the NCAA record of receptions in a season... he got 17 this game giving him 155 for the year. He's another QB turned WR that seems to work well.


I like him too, but he'll probably be a first round pick...


Lurker... I agree 100%


Does anyone think that Suh might move to DE in the NFL?


December 31st, 2009, 4:50 am
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Lurker09 wrote:
liontrax wrote:
I find it ridiculous to think the Lions would ignore the drafting a top DT in this years draft because the ones they have now may be inconsistent, but are young and need time to develop. PUHLEASE!!!


I didn't say that. What I did say is that DT isn't the ideal position for us... we have more there than at some other positions (sad as that is). A stand out DE or OT would be ideal. As it stands right now, if the Lions are stuck with the pick, I'd draft Suh!!! If, in the final analysis, someone else also grades out as being worthy of a #1 or #2 (at a position were we have even less talent), then, and only then, I'd take that other player.

I also said (in the next post) that Berry was merely a conversation starter. I used him because I thought that he was the one player people would take as a legit possibility (partially because of the hype surrounding him).



Unfortunately, most positions on the Lions can be considered the ideal position for us. This team is so bereft of talent from the " curse of Millen "
that infusion of talent at any position is welcome. I agree with you that a standout DE would be ideal, but I don't feel that we are considerably more talented at DT. The way I see it is you have potential at both positions, DT- Hill, DE- Avril and Hunter. Based on what I have read the Lions don't seem to think there OT's are that bad, but that doesn't mean they can't be upgraded. Personally I think the interior of the Oline needs to be improved. The Lions hierarchy profess to be following the BPA school of thought. Which is fine. Last year we got four starters from the draft and if they can repeat that we have another step up the ladder. Last night I watched Nebraska's bowl game. Suh is a wrecking ball. That's not to say he's a lock to be #1, Senior bowl, combine, personal workout, etc. will determine that. If the Rams go BPA and he's gone, I have no problem with McCoy falling into our laps. From what I have seen of him he seems more quick and sudden, and better at rushing the QB. He may be better suited to play DE. I'm looking forward to watching him in OK's bowl game today. If the Lions were drafting strictly on a need basis, the way I see it would be:
1 CB
2 DE
3 G
4 RB
5 CB
5b WR
6 DT
7 OT
We just don't have enough picks to fill all the needs. As far as trading back goes, easier said than done. Don't see it, although one can always hope. I feel there best opportunity to trade back will come in rounds 2 thru 4.


December 31st, 2009, 11:19 am
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wjb21ndtown wrote:
steensn wrote:
OK, I'm officially on the draft Barnes wr from bgsu. Dude is a massaque type wr who I thought would be a steady NFL wr.

He needed 4 receptions to break the NCAA record of receptions in a season... he got 17 this game giving him 155 for the year. He's another QB turned WR that seems to work well.


I like him too, but he'll probably be a first round pick...


Lurker... I agree 100%


Does anyone think that Suh might move to DE in the NFL?



Right now Barnes isn't even listed in the top ten at WR (poor 40 time). I realize that the ratings at this point are not very accurate, and could change drastically by draft day. He has shown to be a reliable receiver.


December 31st, 2009, 11:41 am
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Another thing you gotta think of is...

Lets say we DIDNT draft Suh and got a Berry/Mays/Okung..and lets say next year we improved this team by instead of picking in the top 3 again, we pick between 7-10. Now because we passed on Suh, it is even more obvious "this" year that DT is a serious need, but now there isnt a Suh-graded player, we're out of luck now and SHOULD HAVE TAKEN HIM LAST YEAR. Or....if we needed that d-tackle and we're stuck between 7-10 and there IS another Suh-type player, we aint moving up to get him....guess we'll have to settle for something else.

Unless we get an AMAZING trade offer, please, lets not pass on Suh and regret it for the next few years.

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December 31st, 2009, 2:30 pm
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