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 Okung over Suh - Could happen 
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Post Okung over Suh - Could happen
Unlike most drafts this year we all know that Suh is the consensus #1 pick in this years draft. But yet because of positional value the Rams look like they are going to take Sam Bradford instead.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Lions followed suit and drafted Okung #2 overall. Because LT is right up with QB and DE as the big money positions. DT is not among the higher paid positions except for Albert Haynesworth. I'm not sure Suh has Haynesworth's ability to dominate - I know he doesn't have his size 6'6 350lbs.

I had to go back to 2001 the last time a DT was drafted in the top 3 when the Browns took Gerald Warren. Over the last 8 years the only positions drafted in the top 3 were QB, WR, RB, OT and DE. I'm not convinced that tend will change until a new collective bargaining agreement is reached.

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March 13th, 2010, 11:47 am
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If that happens, then I will question the Lions professing to draft BPA. I don't see Okung as being rated higher than either of the DT's. In fact I question whether he is even the best LT.


March 13th, 2010, 11:55 am
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In my opinion, you pay top 5 money to players that are thought to be "special". True difference makers. Most of the time, it ends up being a QB, OT or DE. However, in certain instances you just have to make exceptions. Calvin Johnson was one of the those no brainer types of players. Let's not forget that Jamarcus Russell was taken over him because the QB is more "valuable". It's laughable when you look back on it. I know it was the Raiders but it's happened throughout history.

Suh is being universally regarded as of the best prospect tackles to ever come out of college. Let me repeat. EVER. That's not something you pass on in favor of an OL that would probably be the 3rd or 4th best prospect at his position in a regular draft. You are taking the BPA according to the info. provided IMO.


March 13th, 2010, 2:10 pm
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Even if they are not difference makers some positions command more money than others and the top paid position next QB is LT. If Mayhew believes that Okung is a pro-bowl caliber LT than the value is there to draft Okung #2 overall.

It doesn't matter if Suh, McCoy or Berry are rated higher. It's harder to justify spending that kind of money on a DT than a LT. Mayhew would have to be convinced that Suh would have to be a true difference maker.

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March 13th, 2010, 6:41 pm
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Leo wrote:
Even if they are not difference makers some positions command more money than others and the top paid position next QB is LT. If Mayhew believes that Okung is a pro-bowl caliber LT than the value is there to draft Okung #2 overall.

It doesn't matter if Suh, McCoy or Berry are rated higher. It's harder to justify spending that kind of money on a DT than a LT. Mayhew would have to be convinced that Suh would have to be a true difference maker.


I'm sorry, but you're wrong Leo. It DOES matter if McCoy and Suh are rated higher, because the position they play, while it may not be as well paid as LT, is just as game impacting as that of a LT, if not more. Left tackles are not "impact" position players. They don't gain yards, they don't score. However, a DT, or a DE, or a safety prevents those things from happening directly. Yes, without the LT the QB or RB is in a bind. But it still remains that if the player is considered to be an immediate impact player for the NFL, that is the direction you look in.

One more thing....it is Suh and McCoy who are considered to be the ones that will be Pro Bowl caliber players, not Okung. As was stated by someone else, this is not considered to be a particularly strong class of OTs, and Okung is the best among a slightly above average group. I see him as being a better than average LT in the NFL, but I highly doubt he becomes a perennial Pro Bowler.


March 13th, 2010, 8:57 pm
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I get your point Leo but I think you're wrong because, after Haynesworth's contract, DTs are becoming as highly regarded as DEs. Particularly those who are capable of rushing the passer from the inside, which Suh is.


March 13th, 2010, 9:37 pm
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Blueskies wrote:
I get your point Leo but I think you're wrong because, after Haynesworth's contract, DTs are becoming as highly regarded as DEs. Particularly those who are capable of rushing the passer from the inside, which Suh is.

Not to mention that players drafted highly at the "lower profile" positions are paid less. IIRC, Jake Long made less than Matt Ryan despite being a higher pick. So, taking a DT higher than a LT doesn't necessarily mean he will be paid more.

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March 13th, 2010, 11:05 pm
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Quote:
Not to mention that players drafted highly at the "lower profile" positions are paid less.


That is not exactly true. Ryan got a 6 year contract which most QBs get and Long got a 5 year contract which most other players get. Long got more money per year than Ryan did. Players are paid directly with where they are slotted it has nothing to do with position. Except for the fact that QB get 6 year deals while everybody else gets 5 which makes look like they are getting more.

I'm just warning you guys don't be surprised if the Lions draft for positional value and go with Okung.

It happens every year. The NFL over values certain positions like LT and DE. These guys are always drafted higher than their rankings.

DT is not becoming a higher paid position it continues to be one of lower paid positions. If you read the details of Haynesworth's contract he only really has a four-year, $48.2 million deal with a gigantic balloon payment he'll never see.

Also look at the fact that the Lions went out acquired a 6 million DT in Corey Williams and already have Sammie Hill. What have they done to address the OL - Nothing.

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March 14th, 2010, 12:03 pm
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Leo wrote:
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Not to mention that players drafted highly at the "lower profile" positions are paid less.


That is not exactly true. Ryan got a 6 year contract which most QBs get and Long got a 5 year contract which most other players get. Long got more money per year than Ryan did. Players are paid directly with where they are slotted it has nothing to do with position. Except for the fact that QB get 6 year deals while everybody else gets 5 which makes look like they are getting more.

I'm just warning you guys don't be surprised if the Lions draft for positional value and go with Okung.

It happens every year. The NFL over values certain positions like LT and DE. These guys are always drafted higher than their rankings.

DT is not becoming a higher paid position it continues to be one of lower paid positions. If you read the details of Haynesworth's contract he only really has a four-year, $48.2 million deal with a gigantic balloon payment he'll never see.

Also look at the fact that the Lions went out acquired a 6 million DT in Corey Williams and already have Sammie Hill. What have they done to address the OL - Nothing.


It's obvious you can make an argument in favor of Okung, I just don't think it's a practical one. If both Suh and Okung were considered top level talents, then I think your argument holds water. I'd say the general consesnsus is that Okung isn't as highly regarded a prospect as some of the recent #1 OTs to recently come out. There's where it falls apart.

You have to take into consideration here that Schwartz will have a major say in this and he knows better than most what a difference a real good DT can make on the field as compared to a Tier II talent @ OT with the #2 overall.


March 14th, 2010, 1:02 pm
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Leo...I see where you are coming from. I know you aren't in support of the Lions taking Okung over Suh/McCoy, but rather just stating that there is a chance it happens due to LTs being valued higher on the payscale than DTs.

However, I don't think that Mayhew/Schwartz are thinking along those lines. They have said they need talent, and that is what they proved last year they are pursuing. They drafted a TE in the first round over many other positions that command greater money. Same thing with taking a safety at 33, rather than a higher paying position.

I just don't see them being all that concerned with what position makes more.


March 14th, 2010, 1:44 pm
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Touchdown Jesus wrote:
Not to mention that players drafted highly at the "lower profile" positions are paid less. IIRC, Jake Long made less than Matt Ryan despite being a higher pick. So, taking a DT higher than a LT doesn't necessarily mean he will be paid more.

The only position that gets a "premium" over the slotting process in the draft is QB. All the other players fall right in line in terms of guaranteed money and total value, unless the GM overpays or underpays.

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March 15th, 2010, 10:15 am
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slybri19 wrote:
Touchdown Jesus wrote:
Not to mention that players drafted highly at the "lower profile" positions are paid less. IIRC, Jake Long made less than Matt Ryan despite being a higher pick. So, taking a DT higher than a LT doesn't necessarily mean he will be paid more.

The only position that gets a "premium" over the slotting process in the draft is QB. All the other players fall right in line in terms of guaranteed money and total value, unless the GM overpays or underpays.

And even then its usually not based on a per position but by unit. All units have a budget and if one player makes a certain amount more then would normally be allocated to a position then one of the others ends up taking a hit, but FA, the draft, and a players career length usually stop position stacking anyways. If a position is stacked and they want to keep all then they will look towards saving on a unit that is most trivialized by the stacking at the other.

Basically this early into the rebuilding phase the only position that gets inflated value is the QB and no other position does pay outweigh talent of another. Since they are not a "Need based" FO I don't see how drafting Okung at #2 makes any sense. Move back to 5 or 7. Then it starts to make sense.


March 15th, 2010, 2:29 pm
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I dont want them to draft Okung at #2, but if they traded down to, lets say 5, then maybe I can see it. But then, if Berry is there, you have another debate whether who to take.

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March 16th, 2010, 12:11 am
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Killer address this briefly online today:

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By the way, it's also possible that Okung could be Detroit's top target. Teams at the top of the board like to draft "position value'' players -- the positions that usually cost the most money to fill. Those include quarterback, left tackle and pass rushers.


I guess the $65 million dollar question is whether Mayhew believes Okung is a pro-bowl caliber left tackle or does he believe that Suh can be the kind of DT that just doesn't just stuff the run but can get to the QB.

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March 16th, 2010, 12:36 am
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Could Schwartz have been playing head games with everyone by making his Backus should be a Pro Bowler comment in order to throw everyone off the draft trail? At the time he made those comments it appeared that McCoy was going to be the one that fell to the Lions. Maybe he liked Okung better at that point and wanted to garner some trade down possibilities from teams behind them.

If Okung is the pick it wouldn't rub me the wrong way too much. I would be a little leery of not taking Suh who is a "can't miss" prospect. They aren't saying that about Okung. In fact, some experts are putting Brian Bulaga ahead of Okung in their mocks now. If they really do like Okung they better try to trade with Washington at 4 so the 'Skins can move up and take Clausen and the Lions can have the option of McCoy or Okung (assuming Suh goes to Tampa).

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March 16th, 2010, 5:07 pm
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