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 Okung over Suh - Could happen 
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Walk On

Joined: May 20th, 2009, 5:40 pm
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I just want to know where in the world they got those DT costs. It must be based on William's GB contract and not the 15 million over three years the Lions are actually paying.

People need to stop looking at "guaranteed" dough and "contract" dough and actual average yearly payout.

Suh would be getting paid 10-12 Million and Williams 5 million a year. That isn't much different the most lines with at least one dominating DT.


April 5th, 2010, 9:36 pm
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Topweasel, I agree with you that those DT costs are bullshit. Walter sometimes gets on my nerves because he thinks he's always right and gets pissed off whenever a team does something that he doesn't agree with. As a result, he tends to exaggerate nearly everything in a lame attempt to prove his point. These DT costs are just another example of that. Using his method, signing 2 DTs to one year contracts worth $10M each is cheaper than signing 2 DTs to six years contracts worth $12M each. It's just a completely stupid way to look at things.

As for the acquisition of Sims putting a "lid on Okung", I wouldn't exactly say that, but I believe it lessens the chances a bit. Hell, some people were saying the same thing about Suh when the Lions traded for Williams. To be perfectly honest, I don't think anybody really knows what the Lions will do at this point, and that's a good thing.

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April 6th, 2010, 12:23 am
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slybri19 wrote:
Topweasel, I agree with you that those DT costs are bullshit. Walter sometimes gets on my nerves because he thinks he's always right and gets pissed off whenever a team does something that he doesn't agree with. As a result, he tends to exaggerate nearly everything in a lame attempt to prove his point. These DT costs are just another example of that. Using his method, signing 2 DTs to one year contracts worth $10M each is cheaper than signing 2 DTs to six years contracts worth $12M each. It's just a completely stupid way to look at things.

As for the acquisition of Sims putting a "lid on Okung", I wouldn't exactly say that, but I believe it lessens the chances a bit. Hell, some people were saying the same thing about Suh when the Lions traded for Williams. To be perfectly honest, I don't think anybody really knows what the Lions will do at this point, and that's a good thing.


I agree Sly. I think we're all in for a surprise come draft day. Maybe not, but I think we are.

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April 6th, 2010, 8:38 am
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MLive wrote:
Detroit Lions Martin Mayhew could throw a curveball by drafting Russell Okung
By Tom Kowalski
April 06, 2010, 7:09AM

ALLEN PARK — All signs point to the Detroit Lions taking a defensive tackle with the second overall pick in the draft. They need defensive line help, there are two highly rated tackles available – Nebraska's Ndamukong Suh and Oklahoma's Gerald McCoy – and the Lions just filled their vacancy on the offensive line by trading for veteran guard Rob Sims.

OK, so why would I not be the least bit surprised if Lions general manager Martin Mayhew drafted Oklahoma State tackle Russell Okung?

Here's why:

• I keep harping on this and harping on this, but position value is important – especially when you're talking about $60 million, which is just about what the No. 2 pick is going to get this season.

There's a big difference in what offensive tackles make and what defensive tackles earn. Look at the franchise numbers for this season (based on the average of the top five players at that position) – defensive tackles came in at $7 million while offensive linemen (mostly tackles) were listed at $10.7 million.

Good defensive tackles are valuable, they're just not as valuable as tackles, especially left tackles. The numbers don't lie.

If you're going to pay a player $12 million a year, do you want him making 50 percent more than his highest-paid peers in the league or just 10 percent more? That's called position value.

• Don't think about this year, think about the long-term projection for this football team. The Lions have a lot invested in quarterback Matthew Stafford and receiver Calvin Johnson and they need to solidify that offensive line for the next eight to 10 years.

Let's take a close look at the offensive line situation. For now, Sims is only on a one-year contract. Left tackle Jeff Backus has just two years left and his salary for 2011 is $6.45 million, including a $1 million roster bonus. Right tackle Gosder Cherilus, meanwhile, has three years left on his contract but he has not played with much consistency in his first two seasons.

The Lions have an opportunity in this draft to take a franchise left tackle who, admittedly might be something of a luxury this year, but a necessity down the road. Also, if Cherilus continues to struggle, Okung can play the right side this season. If Sims or Backus falter, Backus can move inside and Okung can play left tackle.

Remember, the Lions didn't draft Stafford last season because they thought he'd be a game-changer as a rookie. From the moment Mayhew took the job, he said he was going to build a winning franchise and the clear indication was that it might take a year or two.

By drafting Okung, the Lions not only help Stafford and Johnson down the road, but give themselves more options this season. Now the question becomes this: Is Mayhew thinking the same way?

http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/20 ... ayhew.html

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April 6th, 2010, 9:35 am
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I'll have to admit my scouting prowess falls short compared to more then a few posters I've seen here so these are my questions:

Wouldn't RT be a better move for Backus then LG if Okung happened to be picked #2? I ask because while I've seen Schwartz's praise it has never included a guarantee that he would stay at LT; and I have yet to hear any praise about Cherilus' play to this point.

Would Cherilus be a better, or even a decent, fit inside at RG, assuming Sims takes the LG position over?

For a hypothetical OL of Okung/Sims/Raiola/Cherilus/Backus, with Peterman able to give us a little depth.


April 6th, 2010, 10:16 am
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Something else I just thought of.

Washington has their QB. Nobody in this country has them picking anybody other than Okung at #4 anymore. I don't think we could leverage them by saying we are going to take Okung at #2 just as a threat, since they will say we are lying, and they will assume we are taking Suh.

What if we draft Okung, and then offer to trade him to Washington for their #4 and some picks. I honestly dont care if it is their 3rd rounder this year, or something from next year, or a mix of both in the lower rounds. It is only 2 Spots. In a worst case scenario, we end up with Okung anyways, who many think we should take over a DT anyways.

But then the draft looks like this:

1) Bradford
2) Okung
3) Suh or McCoy
4) Washington with Nobody they want that is worth the value (They dont need Berry or a DTm the other OTs arent worth #4, they dont need a QB, and they dont need a RB[and spiller isnt worth #4]).

With this possibility, we end up either with Okung at #2 (fine) or a Trade down to #4 where we grab our DT and shave at least 10 Million off the contract.

Thoughts?


April 6th, 2010, 4:09 pm
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CalvintheBeast wrote:
I'll have to admit my scouting prowess falls short compared to more then a few posters I've seen here so these are my questions:

Wouldn't RT be a better move for Backus then LG if Okung happened to be picked #2? I ask because while I've seen Schwartz's praise it has never included a guarantee that he would stay at LT; and I have yet to hear any praise about Cherilus' play to this point.

Would Cherilus be a better, or even a decent, fit inside at RG, assuming Sims takes the LG position over?

For a hypothetical OL of Okung/Sims/Raiola/Cherilus/Backus, with Peterman able to give us a little depth.


I'm not sure Cherilus could beat out Peterman for the RG spot. Peterman is pretty solid, not great, but I can't say the same for Cherilus. Other than that I think Backus could fit pretty well at RT.

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April 6th, 2010, 4:46 pm
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DJ-B wrote:
Something else I just thought of.

Washington has their QB. Nobody in this country has them picking anybody other than Okung at #4 anymore. I don't think we could leverage them by saying we are going to take Okung at #2 just as a threat, since they will say we are lying, and they will assume we are taking Suh.

What if we draft Okung, and then offer to trade him to Washington for their #4 and some picks. I honestly dont care if it is their 3rd rounder this year, or something from next year, or a mix of both in the lower rounds. It is only 2 Spots. In a worst case scenario, we end up with Okung anyways, who many think we should take over a DT anyways.

But then the draft looks like this:

1) Bradford
2) Okung
3) Suh or McCoy
4) Washington with Nobody they want that is worth the value (They dont need Berry or a DTm the other OTs arent worth #4, they dont need a QB, and they dont need a RB[and spiller isnt worth #4]).

With this possibility, we end up either with Okung at #2 (fine) or a Trade down to #4 where we grab our DT and shave at least 10 Million off the contract.

Thoughts?


That would make for an entertaining first round. I can see it now...half the people scream in frustration and disbelief as Okung is selected while the other half screams in joy and disbelief. Two picks later the disbelief and screamers still exist but they go on for different reasons.

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April 6th, 2010, 4:49 pm
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SimplePoster wrote:
DJ-B wrote:
Something else I just thought of.

Washington has their QB. Nobody in this country has them picking anybody other than Okung at #4 anymore. I don't think we could leverage them by saying we are going to take Okung at #2 just as a threat, since they will say we are lying, and they will assume we are taking Suh.

What if we draft Okung, and then offer to trade him to Washington for their #4 and some picks. I honestly dont care if it is their 3rd rounder this year, or something from next year, or a mix of both in the lower rounds. It is only 2 Spots. In a worst case scenario, we end up with Okung anyways, who many think we should take over a DT anyways.

But then the draft looks like this:

1) Bradford
2) Okung
3) Suh or McCoy
4) Washington with Nobody they want that is worth the value (They dont need Berry or a DTm the other OTs arent worth #4, they dont need a QB, and they dont need a RB[and spiller isnt worth #4]).

With this possibility, we end up either with Okung at #2 (fine) or a Trade down to #4 where we grab our DT and shave at least 10 Million off the contract.

Thoughts?


That would make for an entertaining first round. I can see it now...half the people scream in frustration and disbelief as Okung is selected while the other half screams in joy and disbelief. Two picks later the disbelief and screamers still exist but they go on for different reasons.


Yes, interesting proposition. Reminds me of what the Chargers did to the Giants with Eli Manning. But I think this only works if A) The Lions are absolutely certain that the Redskins are gaga over Okung and/or B) They have Okung on par or slightly lower than Suh/McCoy on their draft board.

When you consider who is at the top though, it does seem like a foregone conclusion for the Skins to take Okung.

Suh/McCoy - Already have Haynesworth
Jason Pierre Paul/Derrick Morgan - Just drafted Orakpo
Sam Bradford/Jimmy Clausen - Just traded for McNabb
CJ Spiller - Shanahan develops late round backs/plus is reunited with Portis
Joe Haden - They already have DeAngelo Hall and Carlos Rogers
Eric Berry - They did draft Landry high despite taking Taylor high, so this could happen again. Probably the most likely pick if Okung is off the board.

Now the other factor to consider is how high are they on Okung? If they don't think he's that much greater than Trent Williams or Bulaga then they would probably laugh at Mayhew on the phone when he calls to offer a trade. Now if that's the case, condition B becomes questionable. Because now you're asking, "uh oh did we take Okung to high?"

It's a matter of Mayhew having to do his homework. Personally I don't think Okung is a premier left tackle worthy of such a high pick. I'd prefer if we had someone on the order of Joe Thomas or Jake Long available. And if Mayhew feels the same, then it's a gamble probably not worth taking. The wiser course of action is to probably keep their cards close to the vest to the point where people have no idea what the Lions will do, and wait for Washington to call and make an offer.

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April 7th, 2010, 1:31 am
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