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 OSU, Tressel & Pryor - NCAA Violations: Fact or Fiction? 
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Post Re: OSU and Tattos
steensn wrote:
And Pryor stands to lose the most along with Boom. Pryor is NOT a first round QB coming out this year, though someone might take an early flyer on him because the NFL has lots of hubris when it comes to QBs. Boom had an outstanding season, but he needs to break out and show he can be good consistently. Both will likely lose millions and they know it...

Again, I don't know why these guys are being hated on, though the OSU fans are way worse than you guys to be honest. It isn't like they cheated or stole things. Read the article I posted, some of these guys just don't have an alternative choice as they cannot work any jobs because of the amount of time devote to making the NCAA millions of dollars. They can't take out loans, they can't do this or that, they are stuck.

I clearly have no idea why anyone would sell their stuff like that... I honestly was surprised anyone would get rid of that stuff. But really, does it speak to their character? Really?



Steen, you're foolish if you think that these guys can't survive without selling team paraphernalia. They don't NEED jobs, or money, or "alternative choices." Everything that they "need" is paid for. The school pays for their shelter, food, etc. The only thing that they "need" money for is to act like a big-shot on campus, debauchery and alcohol, and trust me, those things are freely given to these people in legal ways. No one would turn Pryor away from a college party, no one would ask him to pay for anything, no one would charge him for dinner and TONS would line up to give him a free lunch/dinner on any given day, and none of that is illegal. The only thing these guys "need" money for is to FEED THEIR EGO and allow THEM to be in control of what they get, how they get it, and who they get it from. You're more of a big-shot when a scout hands you $10,000 than when your friends and fans provide you with $10K of food, alcohol and good times throughout the year.


December 29th, 2010, 2:45 pm
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Post Re: OSU and Tattos
Also, you have to remember, the vast majority here are Michigan and Michigan State fans. We aren't going to give OSU any sympathy.


December 29th, 2010, 2:51 pm
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Post Re: OSU and Tattos
Sugar Bowl CEO Paul Hoolahan lobbied Ohio State University to make sure five of its football players -- including star quarterback Terrelle Pryor -- would not be suspended for the game against Arkansas, The Dispatch of Columbus, Ohio, reported Wednesday.

http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootbal ... ble-122910

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December 29th, 2010, 3:03 pm
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Post Re: OSU and Tattos
BillySims wrote:
steensn wrote:
And Pryor stands to lose the most along with Boom. Pryor is NOT a first round QB coming out this year, though someone might take an early flyer on him because the NFL has lots of hubris when it comes to QBs. Boom had an outstanding season, but he needs to break out and show he can be good consistently. Both will likely lose millions and they know it...

Again, I don't know why these guys are being hated on, though the OSU fans are way worse than you guys to be honest. It isn't like they cheated or stole things. Read the article I posted, some of these guys just don't have an alternative choice as they cannot work any jobs because of the amount of time devote to making the NCAA millions of dollars. They can't take out loans, they can't do this or that, they are stuck.

I clearly have no idea why anyone would sell their stuff like that... I honestly was surprised anyone would get rid of that stuff. But really, does it speak to their character? Really?


Same argument that has been used for the last 100 years. Every time someone is found cheating or doing something else that is against NCAA rules. Look, I agree that the rule sucks and that College players should get some of the money they generate. But, the rule is the rule, for every college. Yours broke it and got caught.


No, I'm not arguing to NOT suspend them or give them leeway, please stop acting like I am. I have already stated many times their suspension is correct as they broke rules they knew about IMO. Stop acting like I am lobbying for them to get their punishment removed. I am talking about looking forward on what might be better. I am also talking about people treating them like some group of cheaters not worth a plum nickel... they didn't do anything to show themselves as punks or bad people yet people are treating them as such. It's pathetic.

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December 29th, 2010, 3:12 pm
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Post Re: OSU and Tattos
Touchdown Jesus wrote:
The biggest question I have in all of this is did they sell the stuff for more than it is worth on the open market? If not, then this shouldn't be an issue. Think about it, if they sold it for the same amount that anyone else could sell a similar item for, then they didn't do anything that anyone else could do. But, if they got more for the stuff than it is actually worth, then it is a problem. I still haven't heard what the case is with regard to that. Either way, the NCAA suspensions not taking effect until next year are ridiculous.


That is the thing, they didn't. But I do understand the issue with allowing be a "free market" on selling their stuff. They do not want these kids going to certain schools to have a better chance of making more money because of the school they chose. That cannot be let happen. Pryor would make more going to OSU and selling a signed jersey a few times a week than he would at OU. That cannot be part of the decision making process for these kids.

What makes the most sense is let's be smart about it. Give them a cap for selling their stuff for the year. When I was in school I was able to work and make $25-$30k a year through a co-op. Either pay these kids minimum wage every hour they practice or let them earn some money from it. I say make a cap so these kids can live instead of being a financial burden on their parents STILL.

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December 29th, 2010, 3:12 pm
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Post Re: OSU and Tattos
wjb21ndtown wrote:
steensn wrote:
And Pryor stands to lose the most along with Boom. Pryor is NOT a first round QB coming out this year, though someone might take an early flyer on him because the NFL has lots of hubris when it comes to QBs. Boom had an outstanding season, but he needs to break out and show he can be good consistently. Both will likely lose millions and they know it...

Again, I don't know why these guys are being hated on, though the OSU fans are way worse than you guys to be honest. It isn't like they cheated or stole things. Read the article I posted, some of these guys just don't have an alternative choice as they cannot work any jobs because of the amount of time devote to making the NCAA millions of dollars. They can't take out loans, they can't do this or that, they are stuck.

I clearly have no idea why anyone would sell their stuff like that... I honestly was surprised anyone would get rid of that stuff. But really, does it speak to their character? Really?



Steen, you're foolish if you think that these guys can't survive without selling team paraphernalia. They don't NEED jobs, or money, or "alternative choices." Everything that they "need" is paid for. The school pays for their shelter, food, etc. The only thing that they "need" money for is to act like a big-shot on campus, debauchery and alcohol, and trust me, those things are freely given to these people in legal ways. No one would turn Pryor away from a college party, no one would ask him to pay for anything, no one would charge him for dinner and TONS would line up to give him a free lunch/dinner on any given day, and none of that is illegal. The only thing these guys "need" money for is to FEED THEIR EGO and allow THEM to be in control of what they get, how they get it, and who they get it from. You're more of a big-shot when a scout hands you $10,000 than when your friends and fans provide you with $10K of food, alcohol and good times throughout the year.


BS, I never said they need it to survive. I'm saying that they are not offered the same opportunities to earn money while making others millions. Yeah, they are given a full ride and a great stipend compared to other college kids. Great... but they are making the university MILLIONS of dollars just so they can keep this "amateur" status. You and I both know it is complete BS...

There is no reason they shouldn't get some of that to pay for things... it isn't any different than me taking the college degree I am earning and getting a job in that field BEFORE I graduate. I was a "professional" engineer making $25-$45k a year before I even graduated. If I went to a better college I could have been making even more on the side before I graduated. Why in the heck are these kids doing all the work not getting anything more than a college education for their work?

Do they NEED it to SURVIVE... no way. But they EARNED it...

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December 29th, 2010, 3:37 pm
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Post Re: OSU and Tattos
steensn wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
steensn wrote:
And Pryor stands to lose the most along with Boom. Pryor is NOT a first round QB coming out this year, though someone might take an early flyer on him because the NFL has lots of hubris when it comes to QBs. Boom had an outstanding season, but he needs to break out and show he can be good consistently. Both will likely lose millions and they know it...

Again, I don't know why these guys are being hated on, though the OSU fans are way worse than you guys to be honest. It isn't like they cheated or stole things. Read the article I posted, some of these guys just don't have an alternative choice as they cannot work any jobs because of the amount of time devote to making the NCAA millions of dollars. They can't take out loans, they can't do this or that, they are stuck.

I clearly have no idea why anyone would sell their stuff like that... I honestly was surprised anyone would get rid of that stuff. But really, does it speak to their character? Really?



Steen, you're foolish if you think that these guys can't survive without selling team paraphernalia. They don't NEED jobs, or money, or "alternative choices." Everything that they "need" is paid for. The school pays for their shelter, food, etc. The only thing that they "need" money for is to act like a big-shot on campus, debauchery and alcohol, and trust me, those things are freely given to these people in legal ways. No one would turn Pryor away from a college party, no one would ask him to pay for anything, no one would charge him for dinner and TONS would line up to give him a free lunch/dinner on any given day, and none of that is illegal. The only thing these guys "need" money for is to FEED THEIR EGO and allow THEM to be in control of what they get, how they get it, and who they get it from. You're more of a big-shot when a scout hands you $10,000 than when your friends and fans provide you with $10K of food, alcohol and good times throughout the year.


BS, I never said they need it to survive. I'm saying that they are not offered the same opportunities to earn money while making others millions. Yeah, they are given a full ride and a great stipend compared to other college kids. Great... but they are making the university MILLIONS of dollars just so they can keep this "amateur" status. You and I both know it is complete BS...

There is no reason they shouldn't get some of that to pay for things... it isn't any different than me taking the college degree I am earning and getting a job in that field BEFORE I graduate. I was a "professional" engineer making $25-$45k a year before I even graduated. If I went to a better college I could have been making even more on the side before I graduated. Why in the heck are these kids doing all the work not getting anything more than a college education for their work?

Do they NEED it to SURVIVE... no way. But they EARNED it...


BULLSH!T! These guys aren't making the university "MILLIONS" of dollars "just so they can keep this 'amateur' status." They stay in college to TAKE ADVANTAGE of SCHOOLING, a coaching staff, and to be put into opportunities that allow them to hone their skills to be professional athletes. You literally CANNOT buy they training that they receive in the NCAA ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD. Mike Williams tried when he hired Chris Carter to mentor him, it wasn't even close. These kids leave AS SOON as their ready to make millions, or they stay to try to make MORE millions. The school is providing for them AS MUCH IF NOT MORE SO than they are providing to the school.

Without Terrel Pryor the NCAA would be just fine. Without the NCAA Terrel Pryor is an automotive detail shot rat, a factory worker, or amateur with an outside shot at being an NBA player.


December 29th, 2010, 3:52 pm
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Post Re: OSU and Tattos
BS, you can say without one player the NCAA will live but you cannot say that without these big time athletes the NCAA will survive. They are forced to play college ball because they can't go straight from high school to he NFL, the NFL doesn't let them like baseball and soon to be the NBA again. They are FORCED to play for basically free (let's face it, the ones that can get money for a signature are the ones that draw the crowds). No, you can't buy the training because the NFL hasn't put together or supported a developmental league. They've forced that role to the NCAA.... change the rules and things change.

WJB, you are taking current assumptions and making them a rule in your post. I am saying, wipe it all away and let's say what it is... it is an unpaid development league. For those in the supporting cast role, those not bound for the NFL, it is a great opportunity for a good education. For others though, it is an unfair required 3 year stint where all their hard work and dedication gets them MAYBE a shot at the NFL while they rake in money for the school. Players like Terrel Pryor, Vince Young, Reggie Bush, Eddie George, Cam Newton, Desmond Howard, Charles Woodson, etc. did more for their school than the school did for them. Did they get something in return? Sure, but the NFL gives the players even BETTER coaching WHILE paying them millions of dollars.

Yes, a lot of players get big heads, does that mean they didn't earn a little bit of spending money? I am not talking about millions here... I'm talking minimum wage for the hours in practice to a cap of $30k or something a year selling merchandise or memorabilia. Let them have the same opportunities we had going to college... why should they have less? They are part of a sport that PAYS for part of the OSU general budget. That is incredible.... They make so much money, OSU football pays for the academic side of the equation. One player doesn't do it, the sum of the players do it.

What is the reason not to have a LOW earnings amount for these kids!? They earned it, no matter how much you want to talk up what they get, which is a lot, it still pails in comparison to what their counterparts make in the NFL with better all around and what non-sports students can make "going pro" in the field they chose for their career path.

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December 29th, 2010, 4:41 pm
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Post Re: OSU and Tattos
The NFL is not opposed to someone else creating a "minor league" system. The problem is, it's crappy football, and without a deep seeded affection for a school of choice minor league football is generally not worth watching. There is a CFL league, an NFLE league, and there was the former XFL, none of which have the talent, coaching, or experience of the NFL.

If you take two or three stars from every football program, they still survive and they still generate loads of money. MSU made millions off of their football team for years when it was short of mediocre, U of M has made millions off of its team in the last three seasons, all of which were less than mediocre. The best players in the NCAA WILL BE stars, because the NCAA makes stars out of them. The best players on our fan favorite teams will be beloved, regardless as to how much talent they possess. Most true athletes willing to take direction can play in the NCAA ranks and play fairly well. Whether or not they can survive in the NFL is another story, but that doesn't really concern the NCAA. The NCAA doesn't "need" that for their market, which is generally alumni and local fans.

These kids need the NCAA to be stars, more so than the NCAA needs them to market their product.


December 29th, 2010, 4:49 pm
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Post Re: OSU and Tattos
If those top talent kids left and someone figured a way to draw them away to a minor league team with well paying contracts, the NCAA would lose it's luster very fast. Right now, the NCAA needs the players and the players needs the NCAA. The student athletes can't act as one because there is no way to unless they form some union (which I can't imagine that is legal possible either). The same was said of the NFC and AFC players back before they formed a union, then they showed just how much hey were needed. Yes, the NCAA would still be watched, but it would be as exciting and talented as the bowl sub-division. When is the last time anyone watched one of those (I watched ONE game this year).

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December 29th, 2010, 4:58 pm
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Post Re: OSU and Tattos
Hmm, seems to me that some peeps may be discounting how much a FREE EDUCATION is worth. These kids are getting paid, maybe not in cold, hard cash, but they're still getting paid. How much does a 4 year degree at OSU or MSU or UofM cost???

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December 30th, 2010, 12:44 pm
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Post Re: OSU and Tattos
TheRealWags wrote:
Hmm, seems to me that some peeps may be discounting how much a FREE EDUCATION is worth. These kids are getting paid, maybe not in cold, hard cash, but they're still getting paid. How much does a 4 year degree at OSU or MSU or UofM cost???

I used to think that too, but then I heard comments from a few guys who played football in college and they talked about the beating their bodies took and the health problems they have today. So yes, they did get an education that was paid for, but they paid in the form of physical punishment to their bodies. I realize nobody is forcing them to play and it's a choice, but I think we need to take into account the toll playing football takes on their bodies.

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December 30th, 2010, 2:14 pm
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Post Re: OSU and Tattos
More news on this... apparently Tressel made the offending players commit to coming back next season in order to play in the Sugar Bowl.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/bowls10/s ... id=5970169

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December 30th, 2010, 2:50 pm
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Post Re: OSU and Tattos
TheRealWags wrote:
Hmm, seems to me that some peeps may be discounting how much a FREE EDUCATION is worth. These kids are getting paid, maybe not in cold, hard cash, but they're still getting paid. How much does a 4 year degree at OSU or MSU or UofM cost???


It's not just the degree that these kids are getting, they're also playing a sort of lottery that benefits THEM. They're hoping to make it big, and the NCAA is the ONLY real avenue to get there. That IS very much a part of their "salary." If they choose to squander it early, that's up to them. They're getting two forms of education, a traditional degree and a football education that literally can't be bought. On top of that they're getting mass amounts of publicity (and they are often revered after NCAA even if they don't make the pros). These kids often leave AS SOON as it benefits them. Many of them are doing it as a business, their business, to promote themselves to the next level.

The majority of these universities are non-profit, or state funded, and the money that these kids "make" go to other sports programs or general funding for the school that's used for research, grants, and academic scholarships. These kids can afford to donate to that cause, and they choose to. Any argument that they're not getting "paid" for what they do is garbage. They get paid in terms of education, publicity, fame, competition and experience, and it DEFINITELY helps them later on in life, occasionally to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars.


December 30th, 2010, 2:53 pm
Post Re: OSU and Tattos
LionsFan4Life wrote:
More news on this... apparently Tressel made the offending players commit to coming back next season in order to play in the Sugar Bowl.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/bowls10/s ... id=5970169


I HIGHLY doubt that's an enforceable contract...


December 30th, 2010, 2:53 pm
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