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 Prospect ratings 
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Post Re: Prospect ratings
liontrax wrote:

Agree with some of your points, "its not a bad thing to have 2 very good rbs". Would have been nice to have that kind of quality depth with JB's bad toes this season. It's a little premature to anoint Ingram as a "GREAT player".

When you say "picking ingram at 13 just makes sense to me. i think he fits into both the bpa and a position of need". The way I see it, the same can be said about Julio Jones.


well i think julio would be less of an option. another reason i could see ingram as a possible pick is because of how schwartz preaches having multi dimensional players. now ingram doesnt really fit that role but jahvid best does. they could line ingram up in the backfield and line best up in the slot. so by taking ingram they would actually be strengthening 2 positions of need opposed to 1. it probably wont happen, but i can see where it could make sense. a defensive end doesnt make much sense to me either because that player is really going to have to impress to get any play time.


January 20th, 2011, 7:35 pm
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Post Re: Prospect ratings
vankman79 wrote:
liontrax wrote:

Agree with some of your points, "its not a bad thing to have 2 very good rbs". Would have been nice to have that kind of quality depth with JB's bad toes this season. It's a little premature to anoint Ingram as a "GREAT player".

When you say "picking ingram at 13 just makes sense to me. i think he fits into both the bpa and a position of need". The way I see it, the same can be said about Julio Jones.


well i think julio would be less of an option. another reason i could see ingram as a possible pick is because of how schwartz preaches having multi dimensional players. now ingram doesnt really fit that role but jahvid best does. they could line ingram up in the backfield and line best up in the slot. so by taking ingram they would actually be strengthening 2 positions of need opposed to 1. it probably wont happen, but i can see where it could make sense. a defensive end doesnt make much sense to me either because that player is really going to have to impress to get any play time.


Disagree, think Jones would be the better option. Ranked higher on talent boards. Would solve the 3rd receiver problem, plus provide quality depth at the position and insurance against the possibility of future injuries, or if CJ leaves in FA in a couple years.
Realistically, I don't see the Lions taking either one, but hope they are both there for potential trade down scenarios.
The selection of a DE makes total sense to me. especially if they get one that can play the run as well as rush the QB (something Avril doesn't do). Avril and Mcbride could be gone in another year (FA). Plus the jury's still out on Jackson and Young, and the strength of this years draft seems to be at DE in the 1st round with 7 players currently carrying a 1st round tag.


January 21st, 2011, 11:32 am
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Post Re: Prospect ratings
liontrax wrote:
vankman79 wrote:
liontrax wrote:

Agree with some of your points, "its not a bad thing to have 2 very good rbs". Would have been nice to have that kind of quality depth with JB's bad toes this season. It's a little premature to anoint Ingram as a "GREAT player".

When you say "picking ingram at 13 just makes sense to me. i think he fits into both the bpa and a position of need". The way I see it, the same can be said about Julio Jones.


well i think julio would be less of an option. another reason i could see ingram as a possible pick is because of how schwartz preaches having multi dimensional players. now ingram doesnt really fit that role but jahvid best does. they could line ingram up in the backfield and line best up in the slot. so by taking ingram they would actually be strengthening 2 positions of need opposed to 1. it probably wont happen, but i can see where it could make sense. a defensive end doesnt make much sense to me either because that player is really going to have to impress to get any play time.


Disagree, think Jones would be the better option. Ranked higher on talent boards. Would solve the 3rd receiver problem, plus provide quality depth at the position and insurance against the possibility of future injuries, or if CJ leaves in FA in a couple years.
Realistically, I don't see the Lions taking either one, but hope they are both there for potential trade down scenarios.
The selection of a DE makes total sense to me. especially if they get one that can play the run as well as rush the QB (something Avril doesn't do). Avril and Mcbride could be gone in another year (FA). Plus the jury's still out on Jackson and Young, and the strength of this years draft seems to be at DE in the 1st round with 7 players currently carrying a 1st round tag.


Ya im not exactly hoping for a DE in the first round, but if they do select one, i wouldnt be mad. Gotta keep the strength of the defense a strength if something were to happen. Especially with the talent at DE like you said.

As far as Julio Jones, I think he is an awesome WR, and you'd have to be an idiot not to want him on yur team. But personally, Id want to see what happens in free agency first (if there is one) before we take an offensive player. If the draft arrives and we STILL are in major need of a LB or CB, I just cant see spending our first rounder on anything but one of those positions.

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January 21st, 2011, 1:17 pm
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Post Re: Prospect ratings
there is no lb worthy of the 13 pick and if peterson and amukamara is gone that pretty much means if we select a lb or a cb at 13 then we would be reaching. there are plenty of lbs that are nearly as talented as ayers that will be there in the second rd. so it really doesnt make sense to reach for ayers. now do you really think harris is 13th pick talent? i know everybody wants to fill a lb or cb spot with that pick but i just dont think the guy is there unless amukamara slips.

as far a defensive end goes, when you draft at 13 you are picking a guy that can make you a big contibution right out of the gate. there isnt gonna be a defensive end drafted and come in and take away a starting spot from kvb or avril and he would have to fight get in front of lojack for playing time. im pretty sure they are gonna resign avril and he will be playing here for awhile. kvb barring setbacks from his injury will be around for a few more years. so i guess that just doesnt make sense to me taking a de when we have plenty of promising de. i know a lot of you say avril doesnt play the run well. i cant remember what radio station it was that schwartz was on, but they questioned him about avrils run defense. he replied this isnt a read and react defense, his job is to get after the qb and adjust for the run on the fly. its the lbs and safeties job to fill in and stuff the run there.(i think it was the keller ford lions report on 107.3 in grand rapids but i could be wrong) i think there are a lot of people that dont quite understand thats how this defensive scheme works.


January 21st, 2011, 2:07 pm
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Post Re: Prospect ratings
Vank, I'm starting to warm to the idea of Ingram at 13. The more you talk about it the more I can acquiesce to the logic. I do think that we are ripe for a trade down scenario at 13. If we could drop to say 18-21 we could probably get Harris or Ayers if he drops. Maybe at that point they consider Solder or Tyrod Smith or Sherrod. Just thinking out loud.

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January 21st, 2011, 2:51 pm
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Post Re: Prospect ratings
Wayne Fontes wrote:
Vank, I'm starting to warm to the idea of Ingram at 13. The more you talk about it the more I can acquiesce to the logic. I do think that we are ripe for a trade down scenario at 13. If we could drop to say 18-21 we could probably get Harris or Ayers if he drops. Maybe at that point they consider Solder or Tyrod Smith or Sherrod. Just thinking out loud.


I was about to say almost the same thing. If Prince and Peterson are gone and we are stuck taking a position without reaching, we might as well take a tackle. To me, Gabe Carimi makes the most sense.

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January 21st, 2011, 3:43 pm
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Post Re: Prospect ratings
If someone wants to trade up with us to take Ingram, I'm all for it. I just want us to get value with the pick. Many of us thought that we reached for Gos when we drafted him, and his play on the field has proven it. He may be turning into a serviceable player, or his flash in the pan rise to mediocre may be a fluke. In any event he is definitely NOT a first round caliber RT.

If we can get a true first round RT, or a true first round OT to groom to take over for Backus in a year or two, I'm fine with that. Also, if a Safety rises in value to our pick at 13, I think that would be a good selection, or if we can trade down and take a Safety with a value pick that, again, is actually first round quality, I'm more than okay with that too. I just don't want us to reach to take a LB that is worthy of an 18-22ish selection at pick #13, just because we desperately need a LB.


January 21st, 2011, 4:42 pm
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Post Re: Prospect ratings
Wayne Fontes wrote:
Vank, I'm starting to warm to the idea of Ingram at 13. The more you talk about it the more I can acquiesce to the logic. I do think that we are ripe for a trade down scenario at 13. If we could drop to say 18-21 we could probably get Harris or Ayers if he drops. Maybe at that point they consider Solder or Tyrod Smith or Sherrod. Just thinking out loud.


right on, i wouldnt be upset about trading back by no means. it would be great to move back a few spots and pick up a second rd pick. maybe draft harris around 20 and then there will probably be 2 quality lbs there in the second. i was just thinking that if they couldnt get what they wanted to make a trade and they pick at 13 then i believe ingram could make a lot of sense. i see espn has ingram ranked around 23, i think their a little off on that 1. mark ingram coming out of his 09 season was a top 10 player all day. he got injured and played limited reps this season dinged up lowering his production. i dont believe it will effect his draft stock as badly as most think. i also believe that jahvid best versatility would allow him to line up in the slot with ingram in the backfield therefore strengthening 2 positions. im not saying that they will take ingram at 13, but i can see where it could be their best option if they have to select at 13.


January 21st, 2011, 4:45 pm
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Post Re: Prospect ratings
vankman79 wrote:
right on, i wouldnt be upset about trading back by no means. it would be great to move back a few spots and pick up a second rd pick. maybe draft harris around 20 and then there will probably be 2 quality lbs there in the second. i was just thinking that if they couldnt get what they wanted to make a trade and they pick at 13 then i believe ingram could make a lot of sense. i see espn has ingram ranked around 23, i think their a little off on that 1. mark ingram coming out of his 09 season was a top 10 player all day. he got injured and played limited reps this season dinged up lowering his production. i dont believe it will effect his draft stock as badly as most think. i also believe that jahvid best versatility would allow him to line up in the slot with ingram in the backfield therefore strengthening 2 positions. im not saying that they will take ingram at 13, but i can see where it could be their best option if they have to select at 13.


Moving down from 13, I don't see the Lions getting a second round pick in return unless it's a team close to the bottom of the first round. The best they can hope for, I think, is to get a third round pick in return. I'd prefer to see the Lions move down no more than 10 spots, get a third rounder, and then get value with the pick plus have that extra pick that could bring a possible starter somewhere. Beyond the third round, there won't be any starting material out of this draft, unless you are talking about a second receiver, or something like that.

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January 21st, 2011, 6:58 pm
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Post Re: Prospect ratings
i could maybe see mayhew taking a 3rd to only move a couple spots, but not really moving back 4 or more. mayhew is the guy that gets the better end of the deal and i could see him stand firm on wanting a 2nd rd pick. maybe, maybe not, i dont know what goes on in the war rooms or what goes on in his head. but i really havent seen mayhew trade anything away that he didnt get a real good deal on. i think he would much rather keep the pick than feel like he is giving it away.


January 21st, 2011, 7:35 pm
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Post Re: Prospect ratings
vankman79 wrote:
i could maybe see mayhew taking a 3rd to only move a couple spots, but not really moving back 4 or more. mayhew is the guy that gets the better end of the deal and i could see him stand firm on wanting a 2nd rd pick. maybe, maybe not, i dont know what goes on in the war rooms or what goes on in his head. but i really havent seen mayhew trade anything away that he didnt get a real good deal on. i think he would much rather keep the pick than feel like he is giving it away.


I was looking at the trade value chart (and yes, I know, that's not a true indicator of pick value) and it is possible, based on that, for the Lions to move down to like the 22nd pick and get the second rounder in return. I just don't think too many teams would do that unless they are only a piece or two away, like when the Jets moved up from 17 to 5 to take Sanchez. Based on the chart, if they move down just three or four spots, the third rounder comes into play. However, the past few drafts have been kind of arbitrary in return on picks traded.

And, speaking of the trade value chart, I am beginning to think that will start to come more into play if they ever get a rookie wage scale in place. Right now what prevents teams from moving up and down near the top is the value of the contracts. With a wage scale, the trading of top picks will be more commonplace and the values will begin to be easier to predict.

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January 22nd, 2011, 11:58 am
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Post Re: Prospect ratings
wjb21ndtown wrote:
If someone wants to trade up with us to take Ingram, I'm all for it. I just want us to get value with the pick. Many of us thought that we reached for Gos when we drafted him, and his play on the field has proven it. He may be turning into a serviceable player, or his flash in the pan rise to mediocre may be a fluke. In any event he is definitely NOT a first round caliber RT.

If we can get a true first round RT, or a true first round OT to groom to take over for Backus in a year or two, I'm fine with that. Also, if a Safety rises in value to our pick at 13, I think that would be a good selection, or if we can trade down and take a Safety with a value pick that, again, is actually first round quality, I'm more than okay with that too. I just don't want us to reach to take a LB that is worthy of an 18-22ish selection at pick #13, just because we desperately need a LB.


If you have to groom an OT to be a LT, then IMHO he won't be much of a LT.


January 22nd, 2011, 1:34 pm
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Post Re: Prospect ratings
BillySims wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
If someone wants to trade up with us to take Ingram, I'm all for it. I just want us to get value with the pick. Many of us thought that we reached for Gos when we drafted him, and his play on the field has proven it. He may be turning into a serviceable player, or his flash in the pan rise to mediocre may be a fluke. In any event he is definitely NOT a first round caliber RT.

If we can get a true first round RT, or a true first round OT to groom to take over for Backus in a year or two, I'm fine with that. Also, if a Safety rises in value to our pick at 13, I think that would be a good selection, or if we can trade down and take a Safety with a value pick that, again, is actually first round quality, I'm more than okay with that too. I just don't want us to reach to take a LB that is worthy of an 18-22ish selection at pick #13, just because we desperately need a LB.


If you have to groom an OT to be a LT, then IMHO he won't be much of a LT.


Most offensive lineman have a learning curve. There are plenty of good OTs that have started at RT and moved to LT or started on the bench and came into their own later in their careers.


January 23rd, 2011, 4:06 pm
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