View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently November 27th, 2014, 5:01 pm



Reply to topic  [ 67 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 Cornerbacks 
Author Message
NFL Veteran
User avatar

Joined: September 15th, 2004, 6:02 am
Posts: 1355
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Post Re: Cornerbacks
My unadulterated analysis on the Corners. My premise is to note my observations without letting off the field incidents, combine and post season performances affect what I see of them on the field. Or at least try not to.

Patrick Peterson
Receives a lot of hype, but he lives up to it. Plays under control and is methodical to his approach. He has a swagger that is backed up by his extreme athleticism and exceptional skill for the position. That swagger will be interpreted as cockiness by some. The swagger will also lead to overconfidence at times, and will be burned by tremendous effort by a receiver. He will respond to getting burned though, and never will let a bad play put him in a funk. Tremendous punt returner. There is not another player at any position in this draft who the game comes more effortlessly to than Peterson.

Prince Amukamara
Prince has also received a lot of hype, but his play hasn't impressed me as much. He looks great at times but gets burned at times quite easily. I guess watching him, I have to say he looks to have nearly perfect technique. The problem it seems, is that with that great consistent technique comes predictability. That's the only reason I can explain why he may get burned. Because he he moves really well, and stays extremely close to his man, but they can always find a small little soft spot they can exploit. Other than that, he's a great open field tackler. Not surprising, that he takes perfect angles, and is completely textbook when it comes to either wrapping up, or cutting a guys legs out with his body. The biggest thing I wonder is if the drop off has anything to do with Suh leaving. It may mean that reuniting with Suh would have Prince back to form. But then you have to wonder how these other corners with lesser help around them would fare with Suh wreaking havoc up front. I have to admit that I will be happy to draft Prince, but it's more on the faith that he will be good as everyone says he will be, not on what I've seen of him. At least not this year.

Jimmy Smith
In all honesty, Smith looks better to me on the field than Prince does. I don't really care if you think he looks stiff. Aesthetics has little to do with his performance. He just stays with his man, and has just as much swagger and cockiness that Peterson has. He still backs it up. There's just going to be a lack of fluidity for the biggest and lankiest corner in this draft. Fact of the matter is he excels at the position and really bothers receivers with his size. He's very aware of where the ball is and will make a play on it, but he also likes to make the big hit. The only knock outside of the attitude and character issues, is his penchant for getting easily blocked. And it's pretty glaring too. You would think a guy this big would eat up blocks. But when a receiver gets their hands on Smith, he turns into a useless pylon. Run screens at him all day and he's nothing to worry about. Him and Dowling are prime examples of guys who had little or no help, but would love to see behind our d-line.

Aaron Williams
Unfortunately for you Prince fans out there. Williams rivals him on tape for me as well. Williams is another great tackler who is not afraid of getting physical. Decent cover skills. As good as any at flipping his hips on the back pedal. Excellent at reading defense in my opinion. He will lock his man on coverage, but is quick at diagnosing what is going on around him despite being so focused on his man. The knock on him for me is that he doesn't create interception opportunities like some of the other prospects, but regardless I think he will make a solid pro. It's that premium on interceptions that make me like some of the other prospects better. He will take advantage of bad throws, but isn't as opportunistic at forcing interceptions like some of the others.

Brandon Harris
I absolutely love Harris as a college player, but not sure if I like him as an nfl player. I think no one plays with more heart than Harris at the position. He plays with maximum effort the whole game. He has what I said Aaron Williams lacks, that knack for creating interceptions for himself. He's super fluid in coverage, times jump balls well, and his ball awareness is exceptional. In an airborne fray, with bodies colliding with the receiver, he will look for and locate the ball and make sure that the receiver does not catch it. Sounds perfect right? It's just for me when I watch him on video, it seems like he's at his limit. I mean you really want a player to maximize their potential and no one does it like Harris, but that's the thing. He may have reached his ceiling. His measurable's seem fine. 5'10 and 191 is pretty normal for an nfl corner for me. But on video he looks smaller than that. And the plays he makes are the culmination of doing everything perfect at the limit of his skill and athleticism. The problem is the nfl is another level, and as much as I love the guy, am not sure he has another gear to rise to. You contrast this to a guy like Peterson who plays the position just effortlessly, Harris has to expend all his energy and go a 100mph to get the same production.

Ras-I Dowling
Outside of Peterson he is my favorite corner. I guess you can say his game most resembles Jimmy Smith, but he doesn't have the character issues and doesn't have problems shedding blocks. He would be in the conversation for 1-2-3 with Peterson and Prince for corner back ranking in this draft if he were healthy me thinks. Ras-I has everything I want in a corner. He has excellent cover skills, great athleticism, exceptional size for the position, and an attitude for the game. He's like Ray Lewis at corner back. The guy plays with a vicious mean streak. But he's also very smart and responsible, because I don't think he will mindlessly go for the big hit if there's a better play, or a more sound one. Besides the injury concern, there's probably more reasons why Scouts aren't so high on him, but for me I just love the way he plays the game and for that reason probably gloss over said weaknesses. That's why I'm amazed that he can be had in the 2nd round and in many cases the 3rd. Wow! No wonder I'm not a scout.

_________________
Image
Lion http://www.suh93.com


April 12th, 2011, 10:12 pm
Profile WWW
Varsity Captain

Joined: February 10th, 2011, 4:08 am
Posts: 306
Post Re: Cornerbacks
no you did a great job with that post and hit the nail on the head with all of them.the injury is what had scouts down on dowling and i know that alot of us where stunned when he worked out at the combine because we did,nt expect him to be so smooth in his back pedal or run a well as he did and yes we all noticed the pull-up on his 40.after that half the scouts went injured again the other half that i was apart of were blown away and could'nt wait for his private workout.and boy he did'nt disappoint 4.37 40, 39 inch vert .so your right with this scout and your analysis could'nt be more dead on great job.the one thing your wrong on is dowling wont get past the top half of round two and he could slide into round one.


April 12th, 2011, 10:34 pm
Profile
Player of the Year - Defense

Joined: September 25th, 2007, 3:20 am
Posts: 2815
Post Re: Cornerbacks
Honolulu - great write up. Pretty much nailed it. I also think the heart that Harris plays with is what makes him special, and will make him special at the next level. I hope he falls just so we can grab him later. There's just something about him that makes me believe he'll be someone to watch for at this level.

aliens.. I'm not trying to argue and you're right, we're both going to be stubborn, but for someone who supposedly works for Blesto, you sure need to pay more attention to detail. I said he WON'T be there for us at 44.


April 12th, 2011, 11:45 pm
Profile
Varsity Captain

Joined: February 10th, 2011, 4:08 am
Posts: 306
Post Re: Cornerbacks
i know what you said but i,m giving you till 44 as a low.i,m projecting under 44 and i have the eagles grabbing him at 54.and i am using the same account name i used on the lionsfanatics message board and they knew i worked for blesto.i even gave the site a nice shoutout from the combine by wearing a site teeshirt at the combine.lol.


April 13th, 2011, 12:08 am
Profile
5th Round Pick - Traded

Joined: March 21st, 2005, 2:11 pm
Posts: 1075
Location: Wolverine, Mi.
Post Re: Cornerbacks
Honolulu_Blue wrote:
My unadulterated analysis on the Corners. My premise is to note my observations without letting off the field incidents, combine and post season performances affect what I see of them on the field. Or at least try not to.

Patrick Peterson
Receives a lot of hype, but he lives up to it. Plays under control and is methodical to his approach. He has a swagger that is backed up by his extreme athleticism and exceptional skill for the position. That swagger will be interpreted as cockiness by some. The swagger will also lead to overconfidence at times, and will be burned by tremendous effort by a receiver. He will respond to getting burned though, and never will let a bad play put him in a funk. Tremendous punt returner. There is not another player at any position in this draft who the game comes more effortlessly to than Peterson.

Prince Amukamara
Prince has also received a lot of hype, but his play hasn't impressed me as much. He looks great at times but gets burned at times quite easily. I guess watching him, I have to say he looks to have nearly perfect technique. The problem it seems, is that with that great consistent technique comes predictability. That's the only reason I can explain why he may get burned. Because he he moves really well, and stays extremely close to his man, but they can always find a small little soft spot they can exploit. Other than that, he's a great open field tackler. Not surprising, that he takes perfect angles, and is completely textbook when it comes to either wrapping up, or cutting a guys legs out with his body. The biggest thing I wonder is if the drop off has anything to do with Suh leaving. It may mean that reuniting with Suh would have Prince back to form. But then you have to wonder how these other corners with lesser help around them would fare with Suh wreaking havoc up front. I have to admit that I will be happy to draft Prince, but it's more on the faith that he will be good as everyone says he will be, not on what I've seen of him. At least not this year.

Jimmy Smith
In all honesty, Smith looks better to me on the field than Prince does. I don't really care if you think he looks stiff. Aesthetics has little to do with his performance. He just stays with his man, and has just as much swagger and cockiness that Peterson has. He still backs it up. There's just going to be a lack of fluidity for the biggest and lankiest corner in this draft. Fact of the matter is he excels at the position and really bothers receivers with his size. He's very aware of where the ball is and will make a play on it, but he also likes to make the big hit. The only knock outside of the attitude and character issues, is his penchant for getting easily blocked. And it's pretty glaring too. You would think a guy this big would eat up blocks. But when a receiver gets their hands on Smith, he turns into a useless pylon. Run screens at him all day and he's nothing to worry about. Him and Dowling are prime examples of guys who had little or no help, but would love to see behind our d-line.

Aaron Williams
Unfortunately for you Prince fans out there. Williams rivals him on tape for me as well. Williams is another great tackler who is not afraid of getting physical. Decent cover skills. As good as any at flipping his hips on the back pedal. Excellent at reading defense in my opinion. He will lock his man on coverage, but is quick at diagnosing what is going on around him despite being so focused on his man. The knock on him for me is that he doesn't create interception opportunities like some of the other prospects, but regardless I think he will make a solid pro. It's that premium on interceptions that make me like some of the other prospects better. He will take advantage of bad throws, but isn't as opportunistic at forcing interceptions like some of the others.

Brandon Harris
I absolutely love Harris as a college player, but not sure if I like him as an nfl player. I think no one plays with more heart than Harris at the position. He plays with maximum effort the whole game. He has what I said Aaron Williams lacks, that knack for creating interceptions for himself. He's super fluid in coverage, times jump balls well, and his ball awareness is exceptional. In an airborne fray, with bodies colliding with the receiver, he will look for and locate the ball and make sure that the receiver does not catch it. Sounds perfect right? It's just for me when I watch him on video, it seems like he's at his limit. I mean you really want a player to maximize their potential and no one does it like Harris, but that's the thing. He may have reached his ceiling. His measurable's seem fine. 5'10 and 191 is pretty normal for an nfl corner for me. But on video he looks smaller than that. And the plays he makes are the culmination of doing everything perfect at the limit of his skill and athleticism. The problem is the nfl is another level, and as much as I love the guy, am not sure he has another gear to rise to. You contrast this to a guy like Peterson who plays the position just effortlessly, Harris has to expend all his energy and go a 100mph to get the same production.

Ras-I Dowling
Outside of Peterson he is my favorite corner. I guess you can say his game most resembles Jimmy Smith, but he doesn't have the character issues and doesn't have problems shedding blocks. He would be in the conversation for 1-2-3 with Peterson and Prince for corner back ranking in this draft if he were healthy me thinks. Ras-I has everything I want in a corner. He has excellent cover skills, great athleticism, exceptional size for the position, and an attitude for the game. He's like Ray Lewis at corner back. The guy plays with a vicious mean streak. But he's also very smart and responsible, because I don't think he will mindlessly go for the big hit if there's a better play, or a more sound one. Besides the injury concern, there's probably more reasons why Scouts aren't so high on him, but for me I just love the way he plays the game and for that reason probably gloss over said weaknesses. That's why I'm amazed that he can be had in the 2nd round and in many cases the 3rd. Wow! No wonder I'm not a scout.



Great post HB, I would be thrilled on draft day if the Lions get Dowling or Smith (preferably both). Like the way Dowling plays the game, with the requisite attitude and physicality I like to see.
One corner not on your list, Davon House has intriguing measurables. but I haven't had the opportunity to see him play, and just go by what I have read. Maybe our new poster from Blesto could give us a little insight on him.


April 13th, 2011, 8:01 am
Profile
Varsity Captain

Joined: February 10th, 2011, 4:08 am
Posts: 306
Post Re: Cornerbacks
as you said house is a very nice prospect.had a better proday then combine but did'nt do to there either.could have showed more explosiveness with only a 33 inch vert.but what has always stood out to me is his awareness.i have him going right after dowling in the 2rd before harris.he are my top 5 corners.now of course prince will go before dowling but only because of the injury question.
1-peterson
2-smith
3-dowling
4-prince
5-house


April 13th, 2011, 10:03 am
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 am
Posts: 9521
Location: Dallas
Post Re: Cornerbacks
awesome write up HB. Man I'd love to land Prince in the 1st and RID in the 2nd and turn a weakness into a strength much like DL last year. Then focus on LB later and in FA.

_________________
Image
LB Tweet


April 13th, 2011, 1:16 pm
Profile WWW
Varsity Captain

Joined: February 10th, 2011, 4:08 am
Posts: 306
Post Re: Cornerbacks
landing prince in the first round .i really would hate to see this team have a set back like that.mayhew has done a fine job with the draft i cant see him making the prince mistake.prince is to db's what gholston was to dlinemen.


April 13th, 2011, 2:18 pm
Profile
NFL Veteran
User avatar

Joined: September 15th, 2004, 6:02 am
Posts: 1355
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Post Re: Cornerbacks
You know I intended to add him to the list but I guess my brain went blank. Being a WAC guy myself I have seen House play. Mostly against Hawaii, and he has burned them badly before. He has a lot of great things going for him and would fall into the Jimmy Smith/Dowling Cateogry. Except like Harris, he seems smaller than he is. I guess he's tall, but his frame belies the 200 lbs he's carrying. Perhaps being wiry would be to his benefit. Where does he get docked? I think it's the mid-major conference thing, which is understandable. The last two corners taken from the WAC, Kyle Wilson from BSU and Ryan Mouton from Hawaii have been pretty average. I suppose Wilson gets a rookie pass, but the hype he received, you'd think he'd come out like gangbusters. There is a positive, because the WAC will rival any conference in passing, so he's certainly got the reps. What he doesn't get in the wac is the size speed combo that he will have to adjust to in the nfl. He's faced big receivers, and he's faced speedy receivers, but he has not been able to face the caliber of receiver like a Calvin Johnson who blends the two on a weekly basis. If the pattern holds suit from the other wac corners, there will be an adjustment period. Although he certainly has the combination of tools to be a great nfl corner that his predecessors never had.

_________________
Image
Lion http://www.suh93.com


April 13th, 2011, 4:26 pm
Profile WWW
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 am
Posts: 9521
Location: Dallas
Post Re: Cornerbacks
allenslions wrote:
landing prince in the first round .i really would hate to see this team have a set back like that.mayhew has done a fine job with the draft i cant see him making the prince mistake.prince is to db's what gholston was to dlinemen.


Well I certainly stand corrected. :lol:

_________________
Image
LB Tweet


April 13th, 2011, 4:35 pm
Profile WWW
Varsity Captain

Joined: February 10th, 2011, 4:08 am
Posts: 306
Post Re: Cornerbacks
my comment was a little harsh .having a real bad day these pro days are killing me and i,m just itching to get home.been on the road for since feb 25.i,m much easier going when i,m posting from home.lol


Last edited by allenslions on April 13th, 2011, 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.



April 13th, 2011, 8:44 pm
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pm
Posts: 9958
Location: Where ever I'm at now
Post Re: Cornerbacks
allenslions wrote:
you know i have watch hundreds of hours of film on him from high school thru his senior season i watched him live at the combine.i think i have a pretty good idea what kind of player he is.funny i did'nt see you at the combine.also what grading system do you use.we use the pandian system.


With all due respect, comments like the one I bolded aren't going to get you much respect in this forum. Pablo happens to be the site owner, and his knowledge of football is quite vast. He may not take offense to it, but I and others don't take kindly to it.

And while you may have watched hundreds of hours of film on Prince, or others, that doesn't mean you can know 100% how this kid will turn out as a pro. You don't know his determination, his ambition, his heart or his will to succeed. I respect that you work for a scouting group. But honestly, scouts are the same ones who have made mistakes on hundreds of prospects in the past, and will make hundreds more in the future. Scouts have been wrong about seventh round gems and first round duds. As was said before, you have your OPINION on a player...that doesn't make it fact, and trashing others won't get earn you much in these parts.

_________________
I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.


April 13th, 2011, 9:25 pm
Profile
Online
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: January 26th, 2005, 9:34 pm
Posts: 10332
Location: Sycamore, IL
Post Re: Cornerbacks
I also rememeber scouts and GMs from last season say Maurkice Pouncey wasn't a first round talent. I also remember scouts saying Matt Leinart would be a great fit for a team like Arizona, with his mechanics and quick release. I remember scouts saying Alex Smith wasn't going to suck. I remember scouts saying Phillip Rivers had a quick release, but an average arm and his leadership skills in the huddle were barely adequate. I remember scouts saying Roy Williams had great concentration and could catch everything in a 5 foot radius (really, he dropped damn near every ball that hit him in the facemask and chest). I could go on...

Yeah, scouts are always right. Take it with a grain of salt.

You can watch 100,000 hours of tape, doesn't mean your opinion is fact.

_________________
_____
I have no faith this team will win a game the rest of the year. The kitties finish at 7-9 and Miss the playoffs as GB wins out and takes it from the kitties.
Image


April 13th, 2011, 9:46 pm
Profile
Varsity Captain

Joined: February 10th, 2011, 4:08 am
Posts: 306
Post Re: Cornerbacks
i edited my post.i do apologize


April 13th, 2011, 11:24 pm
Profile
Rookie Player of the Year

Joined: October 13th, 2005, 9:03 am
Posts: 2325
Post Re: Cornerbacks
I don't want to step on any toes but in all honesty you may or may not be an actual scout; any one of us can go on a forum and say they work for any team or scouting firm. Your vagueness, poor form in typing up your comments, as well as a few other things reminds me of a few other posters ie.(The Strategy Expert) that have come and gone from this forum.

Again if you are an actual scout good for you but don't discount people on here because their opinions don't mesh with yours a lot of them put in quite a bit of time in breaking down players. There are those that just go by what they read from draft sites but for the most part the quality of posters on here is better than nearly any other site.

One thing I've noticed about Smith is he isn't the sharpest player planting and driving or changing direction which showed up at the combine when he wasn't top 5 in any of the important drills like the vertical and broad jumps as well as the 20 yard shuttle, and 3 cone drill. I actually like Smith's potential but the more I see of him the more I see Cromartie minus the hands to make the pick.


April 14th, 2011, 6:20 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 67 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Shotty and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware.