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 Jim Leyland 
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Post Jim Leyland
Should we find a new manager?

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May 22nd, 2011, 4:44 am
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Post Re: Jim Leyland
I dont think so though he will eventually take the fall if they keep following winning streaks with equally long losing streaks. Right now the fact is that people still suspect Cleveland to fall apart and as long as we are ahead of Chicago we have a shot esp w the Twins in the tank. I dont really know much else Leyland could do differently.

SP - has been great and rivalling 2006.
RP - Benoit's unraveling has been a killer and we ve gotten next to nothing from them as a whole. Valverde has been excellent. Perry is the next man but he cant handle things yet and has been worse than Benoit. No Zumaya. Young guns Villareal and Albuquerque look very promising but they fold under pressure at times and cant be relied upon too frequently in close game. Schlereth has good overall numbers but in my eyes is awful at stranding guys on base. Brad Thomas wasnt very good to begin with and may be done. Benoit needs to get his head out of his rectum and they need one of Villareal/Albuquerque to mature quickly. Frankly I like those two more than Perry and definitely more than Schlereth. We almost definitely will make a trade for a reliever at some point but what will it cost us? Can one of the young starters ie Oliver/Furbush/Turner come up and free up Coke for the pen? You cant expect your starters to pitch into the 8th to get a win. You ve got to wonder if letting go of vets with nothing in return over the years has hurt us Durbin, Bonine, Rodney, etc

IF: We are basically playing without 2 bats in the IF as Inge has been awful at the plate and Sizemore/Rhymes hasnt worked out either especially in the No 2 slot which is probably the biggest criticism of Leyland I would make. I would pull the trigger on Santiago 4-5 days a week at 2b and spelled by Raburn or Kelly. Their is no answer for Inge. Will Carlos Guillen return? Could play 2b or 3b if he can still hit. Is Danny Worth next at 2b or UT? To say we re missing Placido Polanco is an understatement and we probably should have held on to Damon bc he was a legit 2 hitter.

OF: Raburn isnt hitting. Ordonez isnt hitting and is the slowest runner this season that I ve ever seen. I dont think he ll be back for at least 3-4 more weeks. Both are subpar fielders. Jackson s coming around and Boesch should be playing everyday but probably should be hitting 4th with Cabrera 3rd and Martinez 5th. Wells/Dirks seem like good players who should probably be playing over Raburn right now bc he s such a bad outfielder.

C: Avila's been solid, if other people dont start hitting he might be batting higher in the order. Vmart is raking.


May 22nd, 2011, 3:47 pm
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Post Re: Jim Leyland
im going to go ahead and pat myself on the back on the above post...

SP - continuing to do well though Scherzer has struggled and Coke got hurt. Verlander picked it up and is at the top of his game, Porcello is lighting it up and Penny is contributing.

RP - We did make a trade and landed Purcey who has been reliable so far. Wilk and especially Furbush have both been very good - Schlereth should probably be the next guy to go back down. Brad Thomas I think has lost his job as the Tigers should go with Furbush and probably even Wilk ahead of him in the bullpen. Figure out later if those two are supposed to be relievers or starters. Oliver showed he s not ready to start in the big leagues yet and could be trade bait. Villareal went down but Albuquerque has been the man, perhaps even Zumaya esque though he hasnt held up in as big of situations as Zumaya did as a rookie. Perry appropriately went down. Benoit is back to normal and Valverde continues to be obnoxious but very good.

OF - I think Magglio coming back is going to disrupt the lineup some. It doesnt look like he s done all taht much on his minor league rehab. they definitely shouldnt return him to the No 3 spot in the order when he comes back. C Wells the righty bat seems certain to go to AAA when Magglio is ready. Boesch is producing again, his streakiness might open up a time frame to let Maggs hit 3rd again. Dirks/Raburn/Kelly will split any remaining time and Dirks can play center in a pinch.

IF - the Raburn plan at 2B so far isnt working. Worth did come up as predicted and is helping out at 2B and 3B. Don Kelly has filled in the No 2 slot and so far been respectable. Peralta is having a resurgent season. Inge took himself out of the picture at least temporarily. Cabrera has picked up his pace even a little bit more.

C - Avila and Martinez are both very good.

Anyone think a trade for an infielder is coming? I can almost taste it....something along the lines of Will Rhymes, Andrew Oliver, Ramon Santiago and Lester Oliveros/Chance Ruffin for someone big like Jose Reyes...Would solve our 2B problem give them a placeholder in Santiago, they may not bite on Rhymes but Oliver and one of the relievers could be solid for them in a year or two...Maybe the talent isnt enough with Oliver s stock relatively low given his poor showings in the bigs but I see DD shooting big and willing to let go of some prospects.


June 11th, 2011, 1:57 pm
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Post Re: Jim Leyland
I still think this teams needs another big bat, be it Reyes or David Wright. Reyes I believe is on the last year of his contract and he would probably cost too much to get him and re-sign him, Wright has a few years left but I guess it depends on how much Illitch wants to give up and spend. Not sure of any second basemen who are available who could help out. Still baffles me they let Poanco go when it wouldn't have cost them that much to keep him a few years back. I don't see much help from Maggs coming back and Guillen if he ever does. I shudder when I watch a game and Don Kelly is batting in the three hole.

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June 13th, 2011, 2:54 pm
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Post Re: Jim Leyland
i dont buy the money factor as a reason to not acquire Reyes. Reyes can play 2B or SS (i wouldnt move peralta as he s been playing very well) and can bat in the top of the order ie the 2 spot where Kelly/Casper Wells have been hitting. The Tigers payroll is already some 20 million or more lower than its been the past few seasons, ticket sales figure to pick up as we head into the summer tied for 1st or at least in contention and after this season we have some big money coming off the books Magglio (-12 million - 10 mill salary and 2 mill to buyout his previous contract), Guillen (-13 million), Penny (-3 mill) and Valverde (-7 mill). Thats 35 millions off the books leaving us plenty of money to sign Reyes (12-16 mill/yr) to an extension and account for raises for verlander/cabrera, possibly even bring back valverde though ideally benoit would become the closer and albuquerque or perry into a setup role...


June 14th, 2011, 1:33 pm
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Post Re: Jim Leyland
I've heard Reyes is looking for a bigger payday than the 12-16 mil you mentioned, somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 mil per year with a long term deal. Now is he worth all of that is up for another debate but I'm not sure if Illitch wants to go out on that limb or not. Wright makes more sense dollars wise, already in the neighborhood of 14/15 mil a year and you'd have him I believe for the next three years.

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June 15th, 2011, 4:11 pm
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Post Re: Jim Leyland
Jim Leyland doesn't need to be fired, Dave Dombrowski does... He is absolutely terrible.


June 16th, 2011, 6:37 pm
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Post Re: Jim Leyland
While I'm not a fan of Leyland, who are they gonna get who is better? He's adequate, but as wjb said, Dumbrowski needs to go.

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June 17th, 2011, 11:56 pm
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Post Re: Jim Leyland
slybri19 wrote:
While I'm not a fan of Leyland, who are they gonna get who is better? He's adequate, but as wjb said, Dumbrowski needs to go.


I am not a fan of Leyland either. I hate how he sets the offense up to play for the Home Run. Too often, if we can't hit the HR, we don't score.

But, my main problem is with Dumbrowski. In Florida, he had no problem assembling complete teams.

But, in Detroit, We are always short in at least 1 area. Too many all or nothing hitters and no singles and doubles hitters. Good starting pitching, but, as soon as the relievers come in, the other team scores 5 runs. Or we will get good pitching and no hitting at all.
Or else we will get solid Pitching and Hitting, but, the team defense is atrocious. There's just always something that stinks.


June 18th, 2011, 12:12 am
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Post Re: Jim Leyland
Careful what you wish for. I dont think there is any way Dombrowski gets fired. Just think of how awful this franchise was prior to him arriving here. If we have a second half breakdown again that could probably get Leyland fired although he is clearly the best manager we have had since Sparky.

DDs bad moves were
1. throwing big money contracts at Bonderman/Willis/Robertson. Bonderman was derailed by injuries but looked like he was becoming a star, Roberston's contract was probably overpayment for what he was at the time but only became a complete bust bc of injuries as well. WIllis was a total debacle that was unforeseen but he was completely undeserving of what we gave him at the time.

2. Trading Jair Jurrjens for Renteria - got too excited and went for the gold but got burnt. Renteria did nothing and Jurjens is a solid No 2 possibly ace material who DD didnt have confidence in bc of his build. Way off on that one. At the same time this is probably the only trade where trading youngsters has really burned us. Even our former "top prospects" Andrew Miller and Cameron Maybin havent done anything. Matt Joyce has been good but not until he basically sat for 2 years and we evenutally turned him into Max Scherzer and replaced him from within with Brennan Boesch and with others on the way in Wells/Dirks.

3. Not keeping Placido Polanco - largerly Ilitch driven decision
4. Reupping Magglio - also largely Ilitch driven decision.
5. Carlos GUillen contract - burned by injuries but perhaps foreseeable.
But the bottom line is that we are in contention for a playoff spot and division title year in and year out - there was no chance of this in the late 90s early 2000s and DD is the one who redefined the organization i bet he will be the one who gets to spend the money that gets lopped off after this season.


June 18th, 2011, 12:26 pm
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Post Re: Jim Leyland
The Legend wrote:
Careful what you wish for. I dont think there is any way Dombrowski gets fired. Just think of how awful this franchise was prior to him arriving here. If we have a second half breakdown again that could probably get Leyland fired although he is clearly the best manager we have had since Sparky.

DDs bad moves were
1. throwing big money contracts at Bonderman/Willis/Robertson. Bonderman was derailed by injuries but looked like he was becoming a star, Roberston's contract was probably overpayment for what he was at the time but only became a complete bust bc of injuries as well. WIllis was a total debacle that was unforeseen but he was completely undeserving of what we gave him at the time.

2. Trading Jair Jurrjens for Renteria - got too excited and went for the gold but got burnt. Renteria did nothing and Jurjens is a solid No 2 possibly ace material who DD didnt have confidence in bc of his build. Way off on that one. At the same time this is probably the only trade where trading youngsters has really burned us. Even our former "top prospects" Andrew Miller and Cameron Maybin havent done anything. Matt Joyce has been good but not until he basically sat for 2 years and we evenutally turned him into Max Scherzer and replaced him from within with Brennan Boesch and with others on the way in Wells/Dirks.

3. Not keeping Placido Polanco - largerly Ilitch driven decision
4. Reupping Magglio - also largely Ilitch driven decision.
5. Carlos GUillen contract - burned by injuries but perhaps foreseeable.
But the bottom line is that we are in contention for a playoff spot and division title year in and year out - there was no chance of this in the late 90s early 2000s and DD is the one who redefined the organization i bet he will be the one who gets to spend the money that gets lopped off after this season.


Remember, this franchise either tied or recorded the worst record in baseball history upon DD arrival, so considering he had to build the franchise up form the ashes he has done a pretty good job. One has to wonder how much of all these moves are Illitch driven and DD is basically following the bosses wishes. The trade for Cabrera was huge, even with the bad contract given Willis upon his arrival, I'm sure everyone thought and I was included he could somehow bounce back to his rookie form. What DD gave up for Cabrera is pretty much peanuts to what Cabrera has contributed on the field.

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June 18th, 2011, 1:16 pm
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Post Re: Jim Leyland
Wasn't the hole Juan Gonzalez fiasco the brainchild of Dombrowski? Even if it weren't, he's done enough to merit getting canned. We were the worst team in baseball, but he has spent us into top 5 payrolls, and we've had little to show for it. The best thing Dombrowski did was get Pudge to play for us, that's what turned the franchise around. That drafting and signing Justin Verlander were two great moves, he has done little else to earn his paycheck.

Signing Sheffield to that ridiculous extension
Signing Inge to that ridiculous extension
Letting Polanco go
Jermey Bonderman's ridiculous extension
Willis' ridiculous contract
Guillen's extension, etc.
He has wasted literally hundreds of millions of dollars


June 20th, 2011, 12:06 am
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Post Re: Jim Leyland
Quote:
Wasn't the hole Juan Gonzalez fiasco the brainchild of Dombrowski? Even if it weren't, he's done enough to merit getting canned.


no that was randy smith's work, if you dont know that you probably shouldnt have kept writing.

Quote:
We were the worst team in baseball, but he has spent us into top 5 payrolls, and we've had little to show for it.


AL pennant meant nothing to you? what about being perennially in contention and having meaningful games not to mention a complete resurgence in ticket sales?

Quote:
The best thing Dombrowski did was get Pudge to play for us, that's what turned the franchise around. That drafting and signing Justin Verlander were two great moves, he has done little else to earn his paycheck.


You have got to be kidding.

What about landing Cabrera? Drafting Zumaya, Granderson, Porcello, Avila, Boesch? Some others on the way. Trading for Jackson, Scherzer, Schlereth, Coke while dumping money? Signing Magglio, signing Victor Martinez, Valverde? Trading a murderous Urbina for Placido Polance? Even Kenny Rogers and Todd Jones paid off for us.

Quote:
Signing Sheffield to that ridiculous extension
Signing Inge to that ridiculous extension
Letting Polanco go
Jermey Bonderman's ridiculous extension
Willis' ridiculous contract
Guillen's extension, etc.
He has wasted literally hundreds of millions of dollars


Sheffield's extension wasnt ridiculous, 3 yrs/39mill - you dont trade all your young guns (at the time) for a 1 year player...they had to give him the extension - it didnt work out but it wasnt for that long or overpayment.

Inge got a 2 yr deal for pretty low money.

Letting Polance go hurt us but that was mostly ownership's call to cut back - I agree Polanco could help us but who acquired Polanco in the first place?

Read above posts we have already criticized Willis contract.

If Guillen wasnt re signed I think you would have listed that up there as a criticism ala Polanco. Who traded Ramon Santiago for Guillen? Not signing Guillen after he became an All Star shortstop would have been stupid. Yes, it hurts now that Guillen cant play anymore but having a strong farm system let us trade a former 19th rd pick for Peralta who is Guillen Part II.


June 20th, 2011, 1:14 pm
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Post Re: Jim Leyland
The Legend wrote:
Quote:
Wasn't the hole Juan Gonzalez fiasco the brainchild of Dombrowski? Even if it weren't, he's done enough to merit getting canned.


no that was randy smith's work, if you dont know that you probably shouldnt have kept writing.

Quote:
We were the worst team in baseball, but he has spent us into top 5 payrolls, and we've had little to show for it.


AL pennant meant nothing to you? what about being perennially in contention and having meaningful games not to mention a complete resurgence in ticket sales?

Quote:
The best thing Dombrowski did was get Pudge to play for us, that's what turned the franchise around. That drafting and signing Justin Verlander were two great moves, he has done little else to earn his paycheck.


You have got to be kidding.

What about landing Cabrera? Drafting Zumaya, Granderson, Porcello, Avila, Boesch? Some others on the way. Trading for Jackson, Scherzer, Schlereth, Coke while dumping money? Signing Magglio, signing Victor Martinez, Valverde? Trading a murderous Urbina for Placido Polance? Even Kenny Rogers and Todd Jones paid off for us.

Quote:
Signing Sheffield to that ridiculous extension
Signing Inge to that ridiculous extension
Letting Polanco go
Jermey Bonderman's ridiculous extension
Willis' ridiculous contract
Guillen's extension, etc.
He has wasted literally hundreds of millions of dollars


Sheffield's extension wasnt ridiculous, 3 yrs/39mill - you dont trade all your young guns (at the time) for a 1 year player...they had to give him the extension - it didnt work out but it wasnt for that long or overpayment.

Inge got a 2 yr deal for pretty low money.

Letting Polance go hurt us but that was mostly ownership's call to cut back - I agree Polanco could help us but who acquired Polanco in the first place?

Read above posts we have already criticized Willis contract.

If Guillen wasnt re signed I think you would have listed that up there as a criticism ala Polanco. Who traded Ramon Santiago for Guillen? Not signing Guillen after he became an All Star shortstop would have been stupid. Yes, it hurts now that Guillen cant play anymore but having a strong farm system let us trade a former 19th rd pick for Peralta who is Guillen Part II.



I asked a question about Juan, I think I can do that and keep writing...

I never said that Dombrowski hasn't made other good moves, I simply said that the best thing he ever did was sign Pudge and draft Verlander. Both of those moves were more important at the time than anything else he's done for us, period.

Brandon Inge's $6.5 million per is not "reasonable." The guy sucks, he would be a utility player on any other team.

I wasn't happy when we let Damon go. Given the two I would rather have Damon than Inge, any day.

Guillen has been a basket case of injuries for years. He shouldn't have been re-signed and if he were it shouldn't have been for that kind of coin. Magglio's first contract paid off, but it was expensive, this extension has been ridiculous. You do trade your "young guys" for a one-year player and let that guy go if it comes to that. Making a bad decision and over-paying someone after a not-so-great year is moronic regardless as to what you gave up to get that player. Dombrowski runs this team in a manner that wastes disgusting amounts of money, you can't argue that.


June 20th, 2011, 2:14 pm
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Post Re: Jim Leyland
Quote:
I asked a question about Juan, I think I can do that and keep writing...


yeah thats fine but your question demonstrates a lack of knowledge on the topic you are writing about it and shows that your opinion is being influenced by false information

Quote:
I never said that Dombrowski hasn't made other good moves, I simply said that the best thing he ever did was sign Pudge and draft Verlander. Both of those moves were more important at the time than anything else he's done for us, period.


weaver/bonderman trade, hiring leyland at the perfect time, signing magglio, drafting zumaya and granderson, signing kenny rogers, trading for miguel cabrera, and last years granderson trade arguably just as important and i would argue that signing rondell white/fernando vina were important precursors to signing pudge


Quote:
Brandon Inge's $6.5 million per is not "reasonable." The guy sucks, he would be a utility player on any other team.


i would say he s had a rough season but entering the season would have started for any other team in our division hands down

Quote:
I wasn't happy when we let Damon go. Given the two I would rather have Damon than Inge, any day.


apples vs oranges argument, 3B vs OF, have to consider that we had a lot of viable candidates for OF spots younger and cheaper than Damon while we would have had to massively overpay for Adrian Beltre or grab an unknown to play 3B if we didnt bring back Inge. i argued in the offseason that we should ve kept damon over an injured magglio. that raburn has been one of the worst players in baseball this season makes this worse but if he comes around in the 2nd half like he usually does it ll lessen the blow. i personally think magglio is done

Quote:
Guillen has been a basket case of injuries for years. He shouldn't have been re-signed and if he were it shouldn't have been for that kind of coin. Magglio's first contract paid off, but it was expensive, this extension has been ridiculous. You do trade your "young guys" for a one-year player and let that guy go if it comes to that. Making a bad decision and over-paying someone after a not-so-great year is moronic regardless as to what you gave up to get that player. Dombrowski runs this team in a manner that wastes disgusting amounts of money, you can't argue that.


agree that guillen is one of the most injury prone players i ve ever heard of -he even had Tb at one point, wtf? at the same time all star shortstops dont grow on trees but they overpaid on a risky player but i understand not letting him go after a world series season. Sheffield was absolutely raking until he got into a collision in the OF and hurt his shoulder - where he shouldnt have been playing at that point in his career - his contract wasnt unjustified its just that he got hurt. Dombrowski has spent a lot of money but most of that was at the hands of a hungry Ilitch who got a taste of the world series and pushed for more. personally, im happy that we re mentioned as a free agent destination for good players when 10 years ago we had no chance for legit FAs.


June 21st, 2011, 10:58 pm
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