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 What happened to the Pistons??? 
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ST Coordinator – Danny Crossman

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pm
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Post Re: What happened to the Pistons???
absolutely not. no tmac and no iverson. i think we need to find you a time capsule so you can go back and see how awful iverson was and how little he had in the tank. he ended up playing in turkey for pete's sake!

IMO the only purpose of having Tmac last year was so that he could be traded at the trade deadline. I was disappointed they didnt unload Prince as well. Maybe could ve gotten some draft picks/anything better than just letting them walk in FA.


July 4th, 2011, 9:58 am
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Post Re: What happened to the Pistons???
I remember the games well.. I can't forget things, it kind of sucks sometimes. Lest you forget inversion had crappy players around him and a complacent go-to scorer.

Iverson
Stuckey
Jj
Monroe
Wallace

Would have been pretty sweet.

I know why they brought in tmac, but they didn't expect what they got out of him. Ernie has a way with players whos careers have been derailed due to injuries - for this reason I'm also in favor of bringing in Greg oden.


July 4th, 2011, 10:59 am
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ST Coordinator – Danny Crossman
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Post Re: What happened to the Pistons???
wait wait wait....we go from being a top 2 seed for 3 out of 4 years..trade away 1 guy for a total tool, and become one of the worst teams in the division.....and that was a GOOD move??the "surrounding cast" was the basically the same group of guys that were part of the perenial playoff contenders.

dude, don't get high and starve yerself at the same time...it's eating your brains....

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July 4th, 2011, 5:01 pm
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Post Re: What happened to the Pistons???
We were the gatekeeper to the finals from 2006-2010, we both know that cast wasn't going anywhere - Joe screwed up, but it wasn't when he traded Chauncey (to his hometown team, as requested), it was when he extended rip. Then when he drafted daye, then when he signed bg and cv, then when he hired kuester, then when he didn't pull the trigger on the prince trade.


July 4th, 2011, 9:43 pm
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ST Coordinator – Danny Crossman

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pm
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Location: WSU
Post Re: What happened to the Pistons???
you are absotely wrong, the reason we got worse was because we traded Chauncey. Without Chauncey or any respectable point guard the offense just didnt work - guys like Rasheed, McDyess, Hamilton needed good ball rotation to get shots as they werent able to make their own shots. Billups made players around him better or at least utilized them. Iverson has never made a teammate better and frankly probably the best lineup for an Iverson led team is filled with defenders and rebounders so that Iverson can focus more on offense and get more shot attempts. The remaining cast (which was the exact same cast that made us the gatekeepers to the finals) did not fit well with Iverson as they were used to team play ie "playing the right way" while this couldnt be further from the way Iverson played. Rip s extension hurt bc Chauncey was gone and Stuckey hasnt been anywhere near an adequate point guard, if they had Chauncey or maybe even just another PG we would have had another 2-3 years of quality play from Rip - the player most dependent on ball movement who for the life of him cannot create a shot.


July 8th, 2011, 9:49 am
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ST Coordinator – Danny Crossman

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pm
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Post Re: What happened to the Pistons???
BWT that team of a 2 year older Iverson, Stuckey, Jerebko, Monroe and Im assuming Ben Wallace would have been terrible. 25-35 wins max

How is that team expected to be any better than the team of:

Iverson, Rip Hamilton, Tayshaun Prince, Antonio McDyess and Rasheed Wallace?


July 8th, 2011, 9:52 am
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Post Re: What happened to the Pistons???
At first glance, it looks like the Chauncey trade is what doomed us, but if you followed the pistons regularly, you'd know that isn't the case at all.


July 8th, 2011, 6:05 pm
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Post Re: What happened to the Pistons???
aughsum wrote:
At first glance, it looks like the Chauncey trade is what doomed us, but if you followed the pistons regularly, you'd know that isn't the case at all.


I disagree entirely. It WAS what doomed us..it just wasn't the last stupid thing that was done. They traded a team capt. and got a super dud in his stead. the team just STOPPED winning at that point. everything else is just details. the ship was sinking after that trade and nothing after that was bringing it back to floating, plain and simple.

Look at it this way:

How many wins did the team have right up to the trade and how many wins did they have after.....it's disgusting.

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July 8th, 2011, 6:38 pm
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Post Re: What happened to the Pistons???
here i did the homework for you (as we both no you wont)

07-08 seasin 59-23. 1st in division

trade in 08

08-09 season 39-43....

that trade was the only starting personel change that year and it cost a 20 game swing. Iverson was like cement shoes to the Pistons. He SUCKED and took the team down the toilet.

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July 8th, 2011, 7:22 pm
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ST Coordinator – Danny Crossman

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Post Re: What happened to the Pistons???
Quote:
At first glance, it looks like the Chauncey trade is what doomed us, but if you followed the pistons regularly, you'd know that isn't the case at all.


maybe didnt eternally doom them in itself but definitely got the ball rolling. Made Rip and McDyess ineffective. Made Rasheed not give a damn and leave town. At minimum, the trade immediately made them much worse and put them in a situation where the remaining vets couldnt produce and wanted out. Adding Gordon and Villanueva put them into their current state of eternal doom...

Say what you want about Michael Curry but Iverson could have killed any first year coach not named Larry Brown.


July 9th, 2011, 12:02 pm
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Post Re: What happened to the Pistons???
The Legend wrote:
im not with you at all on the chauncey business, what we needed was a solid backup for him to prevent him from being worn down by the time the playoffs came around...this team has desperately needed a PG since chauncey has been gone. without a pg it is difficult to assess what players like Rip/Gordon/Villanueva can actually do



I agree with this team needing a PG, but I think it was time for Chauncy to go. He didn't look worn out to me, he looked like he didn't care. His attitude in interviews after games and whatnot just wasn't right. He frequently said "we know we're the best team out there," "we know we can win," etc. and that seemed good enough for him. He would shrug off losses with those very words, shrugging his shoulders while saying them.


July 9th, 2011, 2:30 pm
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Post Re: What happened to the Pistons???
regularjoe12 wrote:
here i did the homework for you (as we both no you wont)

07-08 seasin 59-23. 1st in division

trade in 08

08-09 season 39-43....

that trade was the only starting personel change that year and it cost a 20 game swing. Iverson was like cement shoes to the Pistons. He SUCKED and took the team down the toilet.


I prefer to experience things and understand what I'm talking about, not look up meaningless statistics.

On paper, yes it looks bad, but the team was going nowhere with Chauncey, Joe d had always wanted iverson, and it gave us salary cap relief (which he wasted on bg and cv). Sheed stopped playing his position in 06, started hanging out in 3pt land. Dyess was getting tired of losing and was going to a contender with or without Chauncey. Hamilton should not have been extended, without a good pg he's pretty useless, can't create his own shot - it was interesting that Joe d extened Hamilton shortly before trading Chauncey, can't imagine rip was happy about that, led to apathy and further deterioration of his play.

There are things you learn about life that you can't get from the cliff-notes, which, in this case, would be those meaningless statistics from a basketball team that was already in a free fall.

Take the lions.. You can look at the numbers, relate fluctuations in performance to player transactions and things like that, but unless you watch the games, follow the interviews, read the chatter, etc, you won't know what the hell you're talking about.


July 10th, 2011, 3:45 pm
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Post Re: What happened to the Pistons???
regularjoe12 wrote:
here i did the homework for you (as we both no you wont)

07-08 seasin 59-23. 1st in division

trade in 08

08-09 season 39-43....

that trade was the only starting personel change that year and it cost a 20 game swing. Iverson was like cement shoes to the Pistons. He SUCKED and took the team down the toilet.


RJ, if the goal was to win games throughout the season, then i would agree with you. Chauncy didn't have the heart or desire to do it "again" with this team, period.

Your stats aren't really good stats given the scenario. Joe D resigned Chauncy, over-paid him, and then wanted to dump him. Had we NOT resigned him we would have had $13 million to sign a different PG, or we could have drafted one, or traded Rip for one (as he needed to go too!). I didn't believe that Rip needed to go when I believed Chauncy needed to go, looking back, I was wrong on that one. We should have gotten rid of both Rip and Chauncy and started over with a new backcourt.


July 11th, 2011, 2:35 pm
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Post Re: What happened to the Pistons???
Quote:
I prefer to experience things and understand what I'm talking about, not look up meaningless statistics.

well that explains why you constantly look so intelligent when you talk about the subjects you've "researched". mystery solved.



Quote:
There are things you learn about life that you can't get from the cliff-notes, which, in this case, would be those meaningless statistics from a basketball team that was already in a free fall.



7 years and only once did they not end the year at the top of the division..thats free fall (oh and that year they ranked 2nd)? the year they trade away for Iverson they turn to crap. If thats a meaningless stat then I need more of what yer smokin.

Quote:
RJ, if the goal was to win games throughout the season, then i would agree with you. Chauncy didn't have the heart or desire to do it "again" with this team, period.



Im not argueing that maybe Chauncey needed to go, although personally i wanted Sheed out first as he slumped more in the playoffs than chauncey did IMO. The point Im trying to make is we took a QB from the team and replaced him with WR. We took from the team it's leader. like him or not, he WAS the leader of the team. And did we replace him with another leader? someone to carry the torch and continue to lead? NO we picked up the one man band that was Iverson. AND we picked him up WAY too late in his career. Chauncy may not have been the man, all accept that. But there is NO WAY you are going to tell me that the trade was a smart one in any way shape or form. whatever Chaucey was...was INFINATLY better than what we got in return.

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July 11th, 2011, 4:01 pm
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Post Re: What happened to the Pistons???
regularjoe12 wrote:
Quote:
I prefer to experience things and understand what I'm talking about, not look up meaningless statistics.

well that explains why you constantly look so intelligent when you talk about the subjects you've "researched". mystery solved.



Quote:
There are things you learn about life that you can't get from the cliff-notes, which, in this case, would be those meaningless statistics from a basketball team that was already in a free fall.



7 years and only once did they not end the year at the top of the division..thats free fall (oh and that year they ranked 2nd)? the year they trade away for Iverson they turn to crap. If thats a meaningless stat then I need more of what yer smokin.

Quote:
RJ, if the goal was to win games throughout the season, then i would agree with you. Chauncy didn't have the heart or desire to do it "again" with this team, period.



Im not argueing that maybe Chauncey needed to go, although personally i wanted Sheed out first as he slumped more in the playoffs than chauncey did IMO. The point Im trying to make is we took a QB from the team and replaced him with WR. We took from the team it's leader. like him or not, he WAS the leader of the team. And did we replace him with another leader? someone to carry the torch and continue to lead? NO we picked up the one man band that was Iverson. AND we picked him up WAY too late in his career. Chauncy may not have been the man, all accept that. But there is NO WAY you are going to tell me that the trade was a smart one in any way shape or form. whatever Chaucey was...was INFINATLY better than what we got in return.


It was a free fall, just didn't look that way on paper. The bubble was bursting and Joe d did something, I'm going to put trading Chauncey for sal relief in his top 3 as gm (assembling 2004, drafting Monroe, trading Chauncey), the rest of his has been pure crap.

Cool it with the personal crap, see a therapist or something, you're wasting your time venting online.


July 11th, 2011, 4:26 pm
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