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 What happened to the Pistons??? 
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ST Coordinator – Danny Crossman
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Post Re: What happened to the Pistons???
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I'm going to put trading Chauncey for sal relief in his top 3 as gm (assembling 2004, drafting Monroe, trading Chauncey), the rest of his has been pure crap.



What? explain please as this makes even less sense than what you usually make.

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Cool it with the personal crap, see a therapist or something, you're wasting your time venting online


Im not venting...or being personal. Im just calling a duck a duck man. nothing I've said is untrue.....

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July 11th, 2011, 4:41 pm
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Post Re: What happened to the Pistons???
Chauncey didn't want to play for us, Joe d got an expiring contract for him.. I don't understand how anyone could possibly have a hard time understanding that.

Whatever it is, keep it on topic.


July 11th, 2011, 9:00 pm
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Post Re: What happened to the Pistons???
yeah, got that part. The part im saying was awful was the part where we got Iverson. Thats what I've been saying all along. By losing chauncey and getting Iverson The team sucked. You can blaim it on anything after that you want, but that move right there tanked the team.
I dont get how you can possibly say it was one of "his top 3 as gm".

1 move = 20 losses. Thats a good move??????

no matter what your opinion was of Chauncey, that trade was awful awful awful. In no way did it save a "freefall" from happening...matter of fact it exaserbated it.

and as far as the whole "useless stat" thing goes. I thought the ONLY stat that matters at the end of the day was The W/L's. Thats how we judge how good a team really is. That why we as Lions fans have only been able to talk about potential instead of actually being good over the past decade. what stat could possibly be more important?

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July 11th, 2011, 10:19 pm
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Post Re: What happened to the Pistons???
The team sucked before we got iverson, for the reasons I mentioned a couple posts ago.

The trade officially took us into rebuilding mode, and out of denial.


July 11th, 2011, 10:51 pm
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ST Coordinator – Danny Crossman
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Post Re: What happened to the Pistons???
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The trade officially took us into rebuilding mode, and out of denial.


And there it is. the team didn't need to go into rebuilding mode. It needed a couple of replacements. A few pieces switched. It was top of the division 7 years in a row. A reinvention of the wheel wasn't necessary. Until, as you've pointed out, that trade was made. Thank you for proving my point.

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July 11th, 2011, 11:17 pm
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Post Re: What happened to the Pistons???
If by a couple people, you mean the entire starting lineup.


July 11th, 2011, 11:29 pm
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Post Re: What happened to the Pistons???
aughsum wrote:
If by a couple people, you mean the entire starting lineup.


aaaand there goes the rest of your credability when talking about the Pistons. Thank you and good night.

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July 11th, 2011, 11:47 pm
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Post Re: What happened to the Pistons???
Does anyone else disagree with me? Sheed got complacent after he got his ring, Ben left, C became a revolving door of garbage, after 2 years of losing, rip, Chauncey and Tay started mailing it in, dyess left to play on a good team.

Along the way... Joe shot down a trade for rip/rondo, Joe shot down Tay for a late 1st rd pick, Joe hired kuester, curry, fired lb, gave away aflallo, buddinger...

Immensely disappointed in gores for letting Joe keep his job.


July 11th, 2011, 11:58 pm
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Post Re: What happened to the Pistons???
I'm in agreement that the Pistons were in trouble whether Chauncey was traded or not. They were on the decline. Every one of their key players were past their prime. That's not a formula for a winning team. If they hadn't made some moves, they would have been nothing more than a previously good team clinging to their past success.

As for Dumars, I've said before that he's not a good GM. He caught lightning in a bottle once, but he has made a lot of really bad moves. Look at his draft picks:

2000: Mateen Cleaves, Brian Cardinal - Cleaves is nothing. Cardinal is an ok bench player.
2001: Rodney White, Mehmet Okur - Neither anything special. Okur was solid for a couple years. (could have had Tony Parker, Gerald Wallace, Gilbert Arenas)
2002: Tayshaun Prince - Good pick. Not a superstar, but overall a success.
2003: Darko Milicic, Carlos Delfino, Andreas Gliniadakis - Total failure of a draft. 3 worthless players. (Passed on Carmelo, Bosh, Wade. Inexcusable)
2004: Rickey Paulding - Never played in the NBA. Fail.
2005: Jason Maxiell, Amir Johnson, Alex Acker - Not a star in the bunch. Only Maxiell is still with the team.
2006: Will Blalock - Not a good player.
2007: Rodney Stuckey, Arron Afflalo, Samm Mejia - Stuckey plays, but isn't great. The other two aren't with the team anymore.
2008: D.J. White, Deron Washington - White was a draft day trade. Washington isn't on the team.
2009: Austin Daye, DaJuan Summer, Jonas Jerebko - Daye could be ok. Summer was ok and is playing in Italy now, Jerebko might be a decent role player.
2010: Greg Monroe - Seems like a solid pick.

So, in 10 years of drafting, he's hit on Okur (I'll give him that one), Prince, Maxiell, and possibly Monroe. What he has missed during that time are some of the best players in the league (2003). It's nearly Millen-esqe.

Also, you guys have already covered his trades that have been a disaster and/or passed trades that probably would have been good, and the coaching disasters. The point is that Joe D. hasn't been a particularly good GM. Like I said, he did catch lightning in a bottle once, but other than that he's been an underachiever at best. If he wasn't "Joe Dumars" people probably would have been calling for his head long ago. It's just loyalty to a former great player, and that should have nothing to do with him as a GM.

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July 12th, 2011, 11:50 am
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Post Re: What happened to the Pistons???
Touchdown Jesus wrote:
I'm in agreement that the Pistons were in trouble whether Chauncey was traded or not. They were on the decline. Every one of their key players were past their prime. That's not a formula for a winning team. If they hadn't made some moves, they would have been nothing more than a previously good team clinging to their past success.

As for Dumars, I've said before that he's not a good GM. He caught lightning in a bottle once, but he has made a lot of really bad moves. Look at his draft picks:

2000: Mateen Cleaves, Brian Cardinal - Cleaves is nothing. Cardinal is an ok bench player.
2001: Rodney White, Mehmet Okur - Neither anything special. Okur was solid for a couple years. (could have had Tony Parker, Gerald Wallace, Gilbert Arenas)
2002: Tayshaun Prince - Good pick. Not a superstar, but overall a success.
2003: Darko Milicic, Carlos Delfino, Andreas Gliniadakis - Total failure of a draft. 3 worthless players. (Passed on Carmelo, Bosh, Wade. Inexcusable)
2004: Rickey Paulding - Never played in the NBA. Fail.
2005: Jason Maxiell, Amir Johnson, Alex Acker - Not a star in the bunch. Only Maxiell is still with the team.
2006: Will Blalock - Not a good player.
2007: Rodney Stuckey, Arron Afflalo, Samm Mejia - Stuckey plays, but isn't great. The other two aren't with the team anymore.
2008: D.J. White, Deron Washington - White was a draft day trade. Washington isn't on the team.
2009: Austin Daye, DaJuan Summer, Jonas Jerebko - Daye could be ok. Summer was ok and is playing in Italy now, Jerebko might be a decent role player.
2010: Greg Monroe - Seems like a solid pick.

So, in 10 years of drafting, he's hit on Okur (I'll give him that one), Prince, Maxiell, and possibly Monroe. What he has missed during that time are some of the best players in the league (2003). It's nearly Millen-esqe.

Also, you guys have already covered his trades that have been a disaster and/or passed trades that probably would have been good, and the coaching disasters. The point is that Joe D. hasn't been a particularly good GM. Like I said, he did catch lightning in a bottle once, but other than that he's been an underachiever at best. If he wasn't "Joe Dumars" people probably would have been calling for his head long ago. It's just loyalty to a former great player, and that should have nothing to do with him as a GM.


Spot on.


July 13th, 2011, 7:20 pm
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Post Re: What happened to the Pistons???
Quote:
Does anyone else disagree with me? Sheed got complacent after he got his ring, Ben left, C became a revolving door of garbage, after 2 years of losing, rip, Chauncey and Tay started mailing it in, dyess left to play on a good team.

Along the way... Joe shot down a trade for rip/rondo, Joe shot down Tay for a late 1st rd pick, Joe hired kuester, curry, fired lb, gave away aflallo, buddinger...

Immensely disappointed in gores for letting Joe keep his job
.

virtually everyone else disagrees with you. Sheed got complacent 25-30 games after Chauncey was traded. He was hungry for another shot at a ring in 2005, 6 and 7. Ben was long traded before any of this went down and the level of play dipped only slightly bc Rasheed all along was the best ball on defender inside, McDyess stepped up on the glass and Maxiell was strong enough to play tough defense and block some shots. Nazr Mohammed was garbage but Joe moved him pretty quickly and it wasnt to the detriment of the team.

Your timeline of events is bizarre inaccurate and incoherent. We were talking about the Chauncey trade so where is the "2 years of losing" that you are talking about? Are they the Eastern conference finals runs? Our starters were mailing it in yet still made it that far?

Your trade comments in the 2nd paragraph are only partially factually correct. Their was no Rip-Rondo trade on the table at least not one that Boston wanted, boston wanted Rip, Tay and a 1st rd pick for Ray Allen Pistons countered with Rip for Rondo. Tay for a late 1st rd pick wouldnt have been a good trade as you are unlikely to land a starter in that range. Firing of Larry Brown had little to do with Dumars and more to do with LB wanting to coach the Knicks which he went on to do. Curry was a bad hire but made worse by having a washed up star in Iverson that never understood what a team was about. Kuester is a good basketball coach that couldnt juggle a poorly assembled roster of all shoot first perimeter players in different stages of their careers. He handled it about as poorly as could be imagined but Dumars/ownership situation dealt him a raw deal and no coach would have won more than a few additional games with the rosters of the past two seasons.


July 15th, 2011, 3:28 am
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Post Re: What happened to the Pistons???
Quote:
I'm in agreement that the Pistons were in trouble whether Chauncey was traded or not. They were on the decline. Every one of their key players were past their prime. That's not a formula for a winning team. If they hadn't made some moves, they would have been nothing more than a previously good team clinging to their past success.


i dont know if they were in trouble but the reason a move was made was because the formula they had wasnt getting them to the NBA finals anymore. Dumars had to make some move in an attempt to improve but he traded the wrong player/leader (Billups) for a cancer (Iverson).


Quote:
As for Dumars, I've said before that he's not a good GM. He caught lightning in a bottle once, but he has made a lot of really bad moves. Look at his draft picks
:

6 years in a row in the conference finals is a lot more than "lightning in a bottle once" The Pistons under Dumars were a model franchise for years - you are making their championship run sound like a fluke when in fact they were legit contenders for several years. Dont forget that Dumars had to overcome a seemingly bleeding franchise after Grant Hill refused to re sign w us.

Quote:
2000: Mateen Cleaves, Brian Cardinal - Cleaves is nothing. Cardinal is an ok bench player.


Cleaves was nothing but Dumars knew it in less than a season and traded Cleaves for a 1st rd pick and Jon Barry who was key to our rebuilding process. You gotta give Dumars credit for cutting his losses and getting value from that pick. Many GMs would have kept rolling Cleaves onto the court hoping to justify the draft pick.

Quote:
2001: Rodney White, Mehmet Okur - Neither anything special. Okur was solid for a couple years. (could have had Tony Parker, Gerald Wallace, Gilbert Arenas)


They missed badly on White who Dumars drafted on the advice of some outsiders. Again he capitalized by trading White to Denver for a 1st rd pick. You are understating the Okur draft pick in Rd 2 which was a great one considering where he was taken.

Quote:
2002: Tayshaun Prince - Good pick. Not a superstar, but overall a success.


Not good but a great pick bc it was a late 1st rder. Dont forget this pick was made bc Dumars knew he had nothing in Rodney WHite but still needed a starting SF.

Quote:
2003: Darko Milicic, Carlos Delfino, Andreas Gliniadakis - Total failure of a draft. 3 worthless players. (Passed on Carmelo, Bosh, Wade. Inexcusable)


terrible outcome in the longterm but the Pistons won the NBA title that season. Virtually every other NBA GM would have taken Darko over bosh and wade and many would have taken him over Carmelo but we already had a team player of starting caliber at the position. Drafting Carmelo may have cost us that year's NBAs title.

Delfino was a solid pick in that part of the draft and has pieced together a decent career.


Quote:
2004: Rickey Paulding - Never played in the NBA. Fail.

late 2nd rd pick, after a championship season. I dont knock Dumars for swinging and missing on this one.


Quote:
2005: Jason Maxiell, Amir Johnson, Alex Acker - Not a star in the bunch. Only Maxiell is still with the team.



Johnson and Acker were very late picks. Johnson is a good pick who has become a contributor at the forward spots. Maxiell has been struggling but did have a couple solid years.

Quote:
2006: Will Blalock - Not a good player.


also a late 2nd rd pick

2007: Rodney Stuckey, Arron Afflalo, Samm Mejia - Stuckey plays, but isn't great. The other two aren't with the team anymore.

Stuckey and Afflalo are both good picks and starters in the league. Mejia was a late 2nd rd pick.

Quote:
2008: D.J. White, Deron Washington - White was a draft day trade. Washington isn't on the team.


White was traded for cap reasons, washingotn cut but a late pick again.

Quote:
2009: Austin Daye, DaJuan Summer, Jonas Jerebko - Daye could be ok. Summer was ok and is playing in Italy now, Jerebko might be a decent role player.
2010: Greg Monroe - Seems like a solid pick.


Daye, Jerebko and Monroe 3 potential starters in 2 drafts isnt bad at all...



So, in 10 years of drafting, he's hit on Okur (I'll give him that one), Prince, Maxiell, and possibly Monroe. What he has missed during that time are some of the best players in the league (2003). It's nearly Millen-esqe.

Also, you guys have already covered his trades that have been a disaster and/or passed trades that probably would have been good, and the coaching disasters. The point is that Joe D. hasn't been a particularly good GM. Like I said, he did catch lightning in a bottle once, but other than that he's been an underachiever at best. If he wasn't "Joe Dumars" people probably would have been calling for his head long ago. It's just loyalty to a former great player, and that should have nothing to do with him as a GM.


July 15th, 2011, 4:00 am
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Post Re: What happened to the Pistons???
Quote:
Woodson the favorite for Pistons job

By Mark J. Miller

Mike WoodsonThe way the NBA lockout is going so far, it doesn't appear that the Detroit Pistons will need a head coach anytime soon, but ESPN reports that the team is getting closer to making a decision.

Sources tell the site that former Pistons assistant Mike Woodson is the likeliest one to be filling the seat left vacant by John Kuester. This is "thanks largely to Woodson's good working relationship with Pistons president of basketball operations Joe Dumars and the fact that Detroit would know exactly what it's getting after Woodson's work under Larry Brown during the Pistons' 2004 title run," the site notes.

Woodson spent 11 years in the league as a player with the New York Knicks, New Jersey Nets, Kansas City Kings, Los Angeles Clippers, Houston Rockets and Cleveland Cavaliers. He was the head coach of the Atlanta Hawks from 2004-2010 and compiled a record of 206-286.


Did Bill Laimbeer rape Dumars wife or Daughter or something? Laimbeer is a perfect match for the Pistons. And Dumars seems to absolutely refuse to hire him.


July 15th, 2011, 9:21 am
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Post Re: What happened to the Pistons???
BillySims wrote:
Quote:
Woodson the favorite for Pistons job

By Mark J. Miller

Mike WoodsonThe way the NBA lockout is going so far, it doesn't appear that the Detroit Pistons will need a head coach anytime soon, but ESPN reports that the team is getting closer to making a decision.

Sources tell the site that former Pistons assistant Mike Woodson is the likeliest one to be filling the seat left vacant by John Kuester. This is "thanks largely to Woodson's good working relationship with Pistons president of basketball operations Joe Dumars and the fact that Detroit would know exactly what it's getting after Woodson's work under Larry Brown during the Pistons' 2004 title run," the site notes.

Woodson spent 11 years in the league as a player with the New York Knicks, New Jersey Nets, Kansas City Kings, Los Angeles Clippers, Houston Rockets and Cleveland Cavaliers. He was the head coach of the Atlanta Hawks from 2004-2010 and compiled a record of 206-286.


Did Bill Laimbeer rape Dumars wife or Daughter or something? Laimbeer is a perfect match for the Pistons. And Dumars seems to absolutely refuse to hire him.


Laimbeer would be a perfect hire, which explains why he won't do it. Need to pick someone who will get fired in 1-2 seasons and leave us on the hook for the rest of their contract.


July 15th, 2011, 10:07 am
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Post Re: What happened to the Pistons???
The Legend wrote:
Quote:
Does anyone else disagree with me? Sheed got complacent after he got his ring, Ben left, C became a revolving door of garbage, after 2 years of losing, rip, Chauncey and Tay started mailing it in, dyess left to play on a good team.

Along the way... Joe shot down a trade for rip/rondo, Joe shot down Tay for a late 1st rd pick, Joe hired kuester, curry, fired lb, gave away aflallo, buddinger...

Immensely disappointed in gores for letting Joe keep his job
.

virtually everyone else disagrees with you. Sheed got complacent 25-30 games after Chauncey was traded. He was hungry for another shot at a ring in 2005, 6 and 7. Ben was long traded before any of this went down and the level of play dipped only slightly bc Rasheed all along was the best ball on defender inside, McDyess stepped up on the glass and Maxiell was strong enough to play tough defense and block some shots. Nazr Mohammed was garbage but Joe moved him pretty quickly and it wasnt to the detriment of the team.

Your timeline of events is bizarre inaccurate and incoherent. We were talking about the Chauncey trade so where is the "2 years of losing" that you are talking about? Are they the Eastern conference finals runs? Our starters were mailing it in yet still made it that far?

Your trade comments in the 2nd paragraph are only partially factually correct. Their was no Rip-Rondo trade on the table at least not one that Boston wanted, boston wanted Rip, Tay and a 1st rd pick for Ray Allen Pistons countered with Rip for Rondo. Tay for a late 1st rd pick wouldnt have been a good trade as you are unlikely to land a starter in that range. Firing of Larry Brown had little to do with Dumars and more to do with LB wanting to coach the Knicks which he went on to do. Curry was a bad hire but made worse by having a washed up star in Iverson that never understood what a team was about. Kuester is a good basketball coach that couldnt juggle a poorly assembled roster of all shoot first perimeter players in different stages of their careers. He handled it about as poorly as could be imagined but Dumars/ownership situation dealt him a raw deal and no coach would have won more than a few additional games with the rosters of the past two seasons.


My timeline is fine, Ben left (wasn't traded) in 06, complacency amongst the rest of the starters set in shortly thereafter.


July 15th, 2011, 10:10 am
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