View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently April 21st, 2014, 3:17 am



Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
 Obamanonics vs. Reaganomics 
Author Message
Player of the Year - Defense

Joined: September 25th, 2007, 3:20 am
Posts: 2713
Post Re: Obamanonics vs. Reaganomics
theAlphaMale wrote:
Hey Sly,

My Neocon comment was toungue in cheek...a response to labels such as "libtards" lol.

I don't think I've ever read the huffington post nor do I read or watch any other specificly liberal media.

My real belief is that any move you think is a great move on the conservative side or liberal side is a short term fix that cannot ever replace innovation. The lack of innovation is due to a big lack of competition because megaconglomerate companies can devour the hint of competition. It's why such businesses have the money to grease the wheels to make the small business owner bear the brunt and not the billion dollar corporations.

Is that a liberal viewpoint...no, its a reasonable viewpoint cause I am with the reasonable party...oh wait...there is no such thing lol

The fact is no one can point to a true cause effect relationship with the economy and say that tax breaks equal this and will do this or tax hikes will do this...it's all BS theory based on a short history of the modern economy supported by annecdotal evidence. Are interest rates luring people to buy homes right now? Hell no...but you cut them so much what would happen if you returned them to 8%...not a home would move. But you are now stuck with this interest rate that is in ways killing the economy even though it was supposed to serve as an incentive to boost it. It all cycles and is so dependent on situations that are ever changing that no one can proport to have the solution...left right or center.

So because of that it's the people that seem to insist the most that I doubt the most...the ones that are certain that I then know are full of it because it's basically unknowable.

The only contribution that trickle down economics has had is a higher investment in fresh socks. I guess I am tired of being trickled on.


I think the main problem the media portrays today is that its one way or the highway with either view. Both views are too narrow when defined in today's views.

The BS theory based on short history of modern economy that you allude too is part of the problem. Everyone comparing systems based on Reagan through Obama are missing some of the biggest underlying issues that effect the economy today.

'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.'

The media keeps comparing today to the Great Depression. But the only similarities is that FDR tried to spend his way out of the depression in the exact way Bush and Obama have tried to spend their way out of it. The major difference is we don't have a WWII that will put manufacturing back to work again. We also don't have the Glass/Steagle act in place anymore to prevent the banking scams from happening again.

Look up the 1919 crash. It was worse than 1929 crash, but the remedies were completely opposite and so it recovered fast. Taxes and Spending were cut 50%. Tariffs were raised on foreign imports. The economy boomed with the "roaring twenties." But without the regulations of Glass/Steagle, it led to the 1929 crash.

The opposing views of spending vs less taxes and spending (not less taxes and more spending like Bush) have a longer history than just the current views. The major difference was regulations on banking that protected the consumers. Banks were free to use their own money to gamble with, but if they messed up it was their own financial risk, not the people. From 1933 until 1979 when Carter repealed the first section of Glass/Steagle, we faced the usual recession a decade that comes with changing technologies. The first repeal led to the savings and loans scam. The total repeal in 1999 led to the current mess, because now the gambles included not only private investments and the banks money, but now it included local and federal government pension funds and private 401k plans. No matter what solutions we take, both sides have made mistakes and the underlying problem still exists, so even if fixed, its only a matter of time before its fixed again.


September 6th, 2011, 4:03 pm
Profile
Commissioner of the NFL – Roger Goodell
User avatar

Joined: August 7th, 2004, 4:47 am
Posts: 10943
Location: Sterling Heights, MI
Post Re: Obamanonics vs. Reaganomics
theAlphaMale wrote:
Hey Sly,

My Neocon comment was toungue in cheek...a response to labels such as "libtards" lol.

I don't think I've ever read the huffington post nor do I read or watch any other specificly liberal media.

My real belief is that any move you think is a great move on the conservative side or liberal side is a short term fix that cannot ever replace innovation. The lack of innovation is due to a big lack of competition because megaconglomerate companies can devour the hint of competition. It's why such businesses have the money to grease the wheels to make the small business owner bear the brunt and not the billion dollar corporations.

Is that a liberal viewpoint...no, its a reasonable viewpoint cause I am with the reasonable party...oh wait...there is no such thing lol

The fact is no one can point to a true cause effect relationship with the economy and say that tax breaks equal this and will do this or tax hikes will do this...it's all BS theory based on a short history of the modern economy supported by annecdotal evidence. Are interest rates luring people to buy homes right now? Hell no...but you cut them so much what would happen if you returned them to 8%...not a home would move. But you are now stuck with this interest rate that is in ways killing the economy even though it was supposed to serve as an incentive to boost it. It all cycles and is so dependent on situations that are ever changing that no one can proport to have the solution...left right or center.

So because of that it's the people that seem to insist the most that I doubt the most...the ones that are certain that I then know are full of it because it's basically unknowable.

The only contribution that trickle down economics has had is a higher investment in fresh socks. I guess I am tired of being trickled on.


Alpha, since you threw neo-con out there, I figured you were just spouting another libtard talking point from HuffPo. I hear them every day, so it's not out of the ordinary. Sorry if I labeled you incorrectly.

I know you're not here very often, but I consistently state that I'm anti-corporation and pro-small business. I even mentioned it earlier in this thread. The more competition, the better IMO. Allow the free market to determine the winners and losers, not the government. If crony capitalism is eliminated, this can be achieved, and innovation would prosper.

In terms of taxes, how can a sane individual state that raising them would benefit the economy? It isn't rocket science. It's just plain old common sense. The more the government takes, the less you have to spend and/or invest. And we all know that the government doesn't use money in the most efficient manner due to fraud, waste, and abuse, so there is a lower benefit from government spending than there is from private sector spending. Furthermore, government spending is first taken out of the economy via taxes (except in the case of deficit spending, which is a long term detriment), so they really aren't adding anything when they inject it back in.

As for interest rates and the housing crisis, you can thank the housing bubble for that. Congress thinking that people should own a home whether they could afford one or not was probably one of the stupidest things they've ever done. Once again, good intentions led to bad consequences. The real world always prevails over Marxist Utopian visions.

In closing, the only contribution that a command centered economy has made is despair and ruin. Name one in the history of mankind that has succeeded. The Soviet Union? Cuba? North Korea? Greece? It has failed everytime and always will due to human nature.

Meanwhile, our free market system has led to the United States becoming the greatest country in the history of the world. This wasn't accomplished by accident. It was done so by freedom, innovation, hard work, and personal responsibility. The left has consistently removed these four things from our society through excessive laws and regulations, government control, collectivism, and entitlements. It's no wonder our country is destroying itself from within now.

_________________
Image


September 7th, 2011, 12:20 am
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 am
Posts: 9252
Location: Dallas
Post Re: Obamanonics vs. Reaganomics
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... s-america/

Quote:
I’m exactly what’s wrong with Barack Obama’s America

My father used to tell me that if I worked hard, it would pay off in the long run. How could he have been so blind? Laziness pays off now!

We all know that the power to tax is the power to destroy. So too is the power to regulate. Equally powerful is the reality that rewarded behavior is repeated. After applying these inescapable truths to the analysis of Obamanomics, a collection of policies designed to reward or deter (or even outright banish) certain behaviors - to ordain winners and losers - it’s all clear to me now. The reason Obamanomics has been such a miserable failure is that I failed to follow its cues. I hope America will forgive me.

First, despite so many communities lacking a village organizer, I chose instead to serve mine. At the time, the practice of medicine seemed like a noble calling, but little did I realize what a threat physicians pose to communities. Surgeons, President Obama warned, will run around lopping off patients’ feet or yanking out children’s tonsils just to pocket a quick buck. I realize that many of you parents who have unsuccessfully pleaded to your child’s pediatrician for a tonsillectomy will disagree, but who are you to judge? The president doesn’t trust you or your doctor to decide such things. Why else would he appoint as the head of Medicare a man who declared that the doctor-patient relationship is “no longer tenable”?

What’s worse - at least in Obamaworld - is that I, like most physicians, have two jobs: I’m also responsible for a business that creates jobs and employs some great Americans. This despite our government’s burdensome taxes, regulations and licenses, which already have created formidable obstacles to entrepreneurial success. You don’t believe me? Try launching a company or getting a new drug approved. Heck, try starting a lemonade stand. As if these barriers weren’t enough already, Obamanomics increases taxes, regulatory burdens and uncertainties that weigh heavily on each new hire. And yet I stubbornly ignore the president’s incentives by keeping many good people employed. In my defense, however, medical practices today have to hire their own in-house bureaucracies just to cope with the demands of Washington’s bureaucracies. You might think it would be nice if health care money went to, you know, health care, but don’t be naive - your government knows best.

Embarrassingly, I must confess that I balance my own budget, both personal and professional. I realize that’s anathema to Obamanomics, but I just can’t escape my vice of fiscal sanity. What’s more, even though there’s “shovel-ready” money to be had from “Obama’s stash,” I stubbornly insist on paying my own bills. This sometimes leads to difficult choices: I’m the only doctor in America, for example, who drives a car officially declared a “clunker” by his own cousin-in-chief, but I’m from the branch of the family that doesn’t believe in spending money you don’t have - plus, I love my SUV. Still, the undeniable reality is that according to the Obama way of thinking, I obviously sabotaged our economy when I undercut the stimulus and its related gimmicks like “Cash for Clunkers” by refusing to participate in the giveaways.

Worst of all, however, I have become the single greatest impediment to Americans’ prosperity in Obamaworld: a high-wage earner. That I clawed my way toward the American dream with humbling jobs since the age of 12, volunteered for a grinding decade of medical training and lived more of my adult years deep in the bottom rungs of incomes than the top, I know now, is no excuse. Obamanomics is about spreading the wealth, not creating it. In my defense, wildly increased taxes, stifling malpractice insurance and even steep medical school loans have worked wonders to erase the gains. Still, Mr. Obama claims that families earning more than $250,000 a year are “millionaires and billionaires.” Who knew? Those tax-free corporate jets can’t be far behind.

Of course, I’m not alone. Tens of millions of Americans are frustrating the socialist aspirations of this president simply by getting up each morning and going to work. You know who you are. You’re not just suckers, you’re saboteurs. Barack Obama would prefer we all be wards of the state rather than active producers. How else can you explain the incentives he champions: endless jobless benefits, cradle-to-grave welfare handouts, “tax cuts” for non-taxpayers, and on and on. Thus proclaims the president who himself raked in a cool $7.2 million over the past two years, “I do think at a certain point you’ve made enough money.” The key word there is “you.”

Obamanomics hasn’t failed America; we’ve failed it. We refused to become the wards of the state as it demands. I cling (though not bitterly) to my belief that America would be better served if Barack Obama concentrated more on spreading my work ethic than my wealth. I now realize that by serving my community rather than organizing it, by creating jobs and wealth and by holding dear the American dream, I have sabotaged Obamanomics. I hope America will forgive me.

Dr. Milton R. Wolf, a Washington Times columnist, is a cousin of President Obama‘s. He blogs at MiltonWolf.com.

_________________
Image
LB Tweet


September 7th, 2011, 2:31 pm
Profile WWW
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 1:25 am
Posts: 4918
Location: Hills of Auburn
Post Re: Obamanonics vs. Reaganomics
njroar said what I meant to say in a better way :cheers:

You cannot blindly assume there is 1 solution to a problem.

Free market is great...you're right...no one here is proposing that we jump to a communistic dictatorship lol. But there are issues with a completely unregulated open economy as well.

I believe Nevada has one of if not the lowest tax rates in the nation and a very very friendly enviornment to businesses but they have the highest unemployment rate and highest rate of foreclosure.

I am sure I can predict the response as being something about the specific situation of Nevada...which plays right into my point...it's all situational!

And for every point you can make about areas of failure with high governmental controls (which I am not suggesting) I can point to places that attempted a pure free market and either their economies imploded or you had a massive division between the have's and have not's.

The basis of many an ancient wisdom suggest balance and moderation. I think the same is true of our economy. The problem with the 'all in approach' in any given direction is it's a gamble...and you often lose everything.

_________________
Regards, Alpha|Lionbacker.com \(^o^)/
"I date this girl for two years and then the nagging starts: I wanna know your name..." - Mike Binder


September 8th, 2011, 11:13 am
Profile WWW
League MVP
User avatar

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 am
Posts: 3634
Location: Davison Mi
Post Re: Obamanonics vs. Reaganomics
alpha I totally agree with you that all of this is situational. But i have a question..in reguards to todays situation and the wonderful clusterf#$% that we find ourselves in...where is it that you stand. what are your thoughts on how to repair the damage done now?


September 10th, 2011, 10:32 am
Profile
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 1:25 am
Posts: 4918
Location: Hills of Auburn
Post Re: Obamanonics vs. Reaganomics
regularjoe12 wrote:
alpha I totally agree with you that all of this is situational. But i have a question..in reguards to todays situation and the wonderful clusterf#$% that we find ourselves in...where is it that you stand. what are your thoughts on how to repair the damage done now?


It has to be a combination of ideas including tax cutting and raised taxes. Political rhetoric is BS and only serves the politian. Real solutions are slogans they are hard decisions about cutting important programs and raising taxes in other areas. A complex problem such as our economy cannot rely on simple party lines. I am not concerned about anyones electability, I am concerned about results. If me paying less in taxes promotes growth then great...if me paying more promotes growth...so be it but dont let it be as a result of a this or that politicians commitment to principle because it makes a good sound bite. Make it because economic studies show that by trimming the sale here and letting it out there we can right the ship and get on course.

There are many ways to promote our economy but are people willing to live with alternative cost. We can drop social security entirely. We could cut the military down to nothing. We could adopt protectionistic tariffs on imports. We could eliminate public education entirely. We could take over Canada. We could open the door to all immigrants for cheaper labor. We could declare bankruptcy as a nation. There are lots of things we could do...but everyone of those has another cost or impact in some major way.

The best solution is one completely outside of polical lines and motivations.

My first step towards economic recovery is to make a law that if we remain on the 2 party system all political campaigns purely publicly funded affairs with zero contributions allowed. Run your campaign on a limited budget and win...then Im impressed. Remove the influence of lobbyiest in this way and we might have a chance. Otherwise forget about it...

_________________
Regards, Alpha|Lionbacker.com \(^o^)/
"I date this girl for two years and then the nagging starts: I wanna know your name..." - Mike Binder


September 13th, 2011, 3:48 pm
Profile WWW
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 am
Posts: 9252
Location: Dallas
Post Re: Obamanonics vs. Reaganomics
tough world, tough but simple choices. The current tax system is too complex and it doesn't work. Over 50% of wage earners pay nothing, at the top they have all the loopholes figured out. Simple solutions, either go with a flat tax rate that everyone pays the same or a national sales tax. That will take care of the revenue side.

On the expense side, simple, you limit expenses to revenue. Actually, you limit expenses below revenue to also pay down some of the debt. Then it becomes attrition by numbers, either we decide what is really important and were we want to spend the money or have straight percentage cuts accross all to get in line with what we take in.

So simple, even a caveman could be president.

_________________
Image
LB Tweet


September 13th, 2011, 3:56 pm
Profile WWW
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 1:25 am
Posts: 4918
Location: Hills of Auburn
Post Re: Obamanonics vs. Reaganomics
lol repeating the word simple doesn't make it simple you simpleton :lol:

_________________
Regards, Alpha|Lionbacker.com \(^o^)/
"I date this girl for two years and then the nagging starts: I wanna know your name..." - Mike Binder


September 13th, 2011, 4:16 pm
Profile WWW
Commissioner of the NFL – Roger Goodell
User avatar

Joined: August 7th, 2004, 4:47 am
Posts: 10943
Location: Sterling Heights, MI
Post Re: Obamanonics vs. Reaganomics
Alpha, but it is simple. That's what you so-called "intellectuals" fail to understand.

Conservatives believe that an 8 year old girl should be allowed to open a lemonade stand with a $2 investment and gain a $10 return.

Libtards, on the other hand, believe that she should pay a $25 fee to the government beforehand for a permit to offset the costs of the FDA, EPA, FCC, IRS, SEC, and many other agencies before being allowed to do so.

I doubt that you're ignorant enough to not see what the problem is here.

_________________
Image


September 21st, 2011, 1:50 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 24 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware.