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 A Dangerous Precedent 
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Modmin Dude
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Post A Dangerous Precedent
Ron Paul wrote:
A Dangerous Precedent
According to the Fifth Amendment of the US Constitution, Americans are never to be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law. The Constitution is not some aspirational statement of values, allowing exceptions when convenient, but rather, it is the law of the land. It is the basis of our Republic and our principal bulwark against tyranny.

Last week’s assassination of two American citizens, Anwar al-Awlaki and Samir Khan, is an outrage and a criminal act carried out by the President and his administration. If the law protecting us against government-sanctioned assassination can be voided when there is a “really bad American”, is there any meaning left to the rule of law in the United States? If, as we learned last week, a secret government committee, not subject to congressional oversight or judicial review, can now target certain Americans for assassination, under what moral authority do we presume to lecture the rest of the world about protecting human rights? Didn’t we just bomb Libya into oblivion under the auspices of protecting the civilians from being targeted by their government? Timothy McVeigh was certainly a threat, as were Nidal Hassan and Jared Lee Loughner. They killed people in front of many witnesses. They took up arms against their government in a literal way, yet were still afforded trials. These constitutional protections are in place because our Founders realized it is a very serious matter to deprive any individual of life or liberty. Our outrage against even the obviously guilty is not worth the sacrifice of the rule of law. Al-Awlaki has been outspoken against the United States and we are told he encouraged violence against Americans. We do not know that he actually committed any acts of violence. Ironically, he was once invited to the Pentagon as part of an outreach to moderate Muslims after 9/11. As the US attacks against Muslims in the Middle East and Central Asia expanded, it is said that he became more fervent and radical in his opposition to US foreign policy.

Many cheer this killing because they believe that in a time of war, due process is not necessary - not even for citizens, and especially not for those overseas. However, there has been no formal declaration of war and certainly not one against Yemen. The post-9/11 authorization for force would not have covered these two Americans because no one is claiming they had any connection to that attack. Al-Awlaki was on a kill list compiled by a secret panel within President Obama’s National Security Council and Justice Department. How many more Americans citizens are on that list? They won’t tell us. What are the criteria? They won’t tell us. Where is the evidence? They won’t tell us.

Al-Awlaki's father tried desperately to get the administration to at least allow his son to have legal representation to challenge the “kill” order. He was denied. Rather than give him his day in court, the administration, behind closed doors, served as prosecutor, judge, jury, and executioner.The most worrisome aspect of this is that any new powers this administration accrues will serve as precedents for future administrations. Even those who completely trust this administration must understand that if this usurpation of power and denial of due process is allowed to stand, these powers will remain to be expanded on by the next administration and then the next. Will you trust them? History shows that once a population gives up its rights, they are not easily won back. Beware.


http://paul.house.gov/index.php?option= ... &Itemid=69


So much for us being a "Nation of laws" huh?

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October 10th, 2011, 2:36 pm
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Post Re: A Dangerous Precedent
A simple process of going before the supreme court and declaring them "traitors" with a public display of evidence and I believe you'd have vast majority of the country believing that they were given due process. The lack of any court proceedings and the judgment calls being made in private are the major issues.

Regardless of their affiliation with a terrorist organization, they are U.S. citizens, so they deserve at least to be announced and charged as Traitors, even without a full-blown trial. But for some reason, the administration is willing to bypass that simple step to make it legit. And lets not confuse this issue with Guantanamo, which is detaining military enemies. Non-citizens don't fall under protection of the constitution.


October 10th, 2011, 2:44 pm
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Post Re: A Dangerous Precedent
Perhaps it is the ridiculous amount of Killians I have consumed during monday night victory but sucka got what he deserved.

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October 11th, 2011, 12:33 am
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Post Re: A Dangerous Precedent
I consider Anwar al-Awlaki to be an "unlawful combatant", so he's fair game as far as I'm concerned.

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October 12th, 2011, 1:18 pm
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Modmin Dude
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Post Re: A Dangerous Precedent
I personally don't care what anybody 'thinks' about the guy, he is a US CITIZEN that was hunted down WITHOUT due process. THAT is the dangerous precedent and if you guys can't see that, then this nation is worse off than I feared.

Perhaps to put it a bit different:

If the US Govt decided that Lion's fans were a terrorist organization, this precedent would allow the US Govt to hunt down all of us and kill us without so much as our Constitutionally guaranteed day in court. For some reason, I don't think too many here would like that.

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October 12th, 2011, 3:48 pm
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Post Re: A Dangerous Precedent
TheRealWags wrote:
I personally don't care what anybody 'thinks' about the guy, he is a US CITIZEN that was hunted down WITHOUT due process. THAT is the dangerous precedent and if you guys can't see that, then this nation is worse off than I feared.

Perhaps to put it a bit different:

If the US Govt decided that Lion's fans were a terrorist organization, this precedent would allow the US Govt to hunt down all of us and kill us without so much as our Constitutionally guaranteed day in court. For some reason, I don't think too many here would like that.


I'm hearing what your saying Wags.. not falling on deaf ears here.

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October 12th, 2011, 3:51 pm
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Post Re: A Dangerous Precedent
TheRealWags wrote:
I personally don't care what anybody 'thinks' about the guy, he is a US CITIZEN that was hunted down WITHOUT due process. THAT is the dangerous precedent and if you guys can't see that, then this nation is worse off than I feared.

Perhaps to put it a bit different:

If the US Govt decided that Lion's fans were a terrorist organization, this precedent would allow the US Govt to hunt down all of us and kill us without so much as our Constitutionally guaranteed day in court. For some reason, I don't think too many here would like that.


I agree with you completely, and never mind the fact that we're violating international law and state soverignty, launching missiles inside boarders of countries that we're not at war with...


October 12th, 2011, 4:35 pm
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