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 steve spagnolia 
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Post Re: steve spagnolia
The Legend wrote:
i disagree, the LBs we have are not good blitzers and when we blitzed we either didnt generate any additional pressure or got burned. i think our dl didnt get many hold calls bc of "the dirty reputation" but the play declined when kvb's snaps increased and lo jack and young got hurt. we might think about grabbing a DE especially if melvin ingram is going to be available around pick 20 it would be a short trade up to grab him or possibly we could get someone to replace Levy; Burfict might be available around there as well and might instantly make our worst LB slot our best. janorris jenkins the top corner available at that area of the draft has too many character, drug issues and I wouldnt consider him.

I have no comment regarding our LB's ability to blitz, but I do think our DL is getting held more than a hooker's boob on a Saturday night. I also saw us get our butts toasted when we blitzed during the season. The wide 9 may have issues stopping the run, but it all comes down to responsibility. I am sure Gunther or Jim can explain the run responsibility of both the DL and the LB's, which I am sure is reasonable. BUT, good gosh get us some secondary help.
WarEr4Christ wrote:
The picture in my head actually has pretty decent example from College football several years ago.

John Navarre was the U of M qb and Michigan had a pretty stout team that was blowing people up on both sides of the ball. They were heading into the game against Oregon (the Ducks) Everyone was talking about how strong the Wolverines were, and how this was going to be a big challenge for Oregon.

What happened? Oregon came out running and throwing and chewed up clock and scored a lot of points. Michigan got cold (sat on the shaded side of the field) and when they did get the ball it took forever for them to ramp up. So in the mean time they had 3 and outs and Oregon had touchdowns. Why? Because their offense ate clock, and scored points. Their defense didn't get exposed to the mighty Michigan Offense operating on full cylnders because they had to warm up again. The 2nd half proved different, but in the end, Oregon smacked Michigan in the mouth.

If Detroit had a solid running game, NO can't score points if their O is on the bench. Same with us, or Defense was already suspect in key areas, but was disected because, we couldn't tackle, we couldn't get pressure, we couldn't stop the run. As the game went on, this got worse. But if our Offense could have kept Brees on the bench for significant amounts of time, we stood a better chance.

We need a running game, pure and simple, it's killing us. I'v been saying that since Barry left.

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January 9th, 2012, 5:53 pm
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Post Re: steve spagnolia
Though I agree 100% that we need a better run game, I cant even think about anything offense related right now. I think this offseason needs to be focused on Defense, Defense, Defense, Offensive line, Defense, Defense...etc.

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January 9th, 2012, 8:53 pm
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Post Re: steve spagnolia
kdsberman wrote:
Though I agree 100% that we need a better run game, I cant even think about anything offense related right now. I think this offseason needs to be focused on Defense, Defense, Defense, Offensive line, Defense, Defense...etc.



+1

Would it surprise you to know that the Lions ran for 1,500 yards this year?

But, we can't run!


January 9th, 2012, 9:10 pm
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Post Re: steve spagnolia
BillySims wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
Though I agree 100% that we need a better run game, I cant even think about anything offense related right now. I think this offseason needs to be focused on Defense, Defense, Defense, Offensive line, Defense, Defense...etc.



+1

Would it surprise you to know that the Lions ran for 1,500 yards this year?

But, we can't run!


1523 yards = 29th in the league.

Certainly yes, the defense issues are more glaring but one way to help the defense is to keep the offense on the field by extending drives and running the clock. A reliable running game is a good way to do that. That's exactly how New Orleans beat people this year, including the Lions. They can score fast if they want to, but they can also put together 5 and 6 minute scoring drives.

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January 9th, 2012, 9:24 pm
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Post Re: steve spagnolia
Oh come on.

The defense couldn't force one ****ing punt. Controlling the clock is one thing. But you can't force a single three-and-out? Are you kidding?


January 9th, 2012, 9:34 pm
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Post Re: steve spagnolia
Blueskies wrote:
Oh come on.

The defense couldn't force one ****ing punt. Controlling the clock is one thing. But you can't force a single three-and-out? Are you kidding?



I agree. That would be nice to be able to control the clock, but it would be VERY nice to be able to stop the opposing team from doing that same thing, especially if our offense already has the ability to put up points.

Look, its simple. The Lions can score points. That cant be argued. Now we need to stop the other team from scoring points. We do that, and were talkin Green Bay next week.

Score points and stop them from scoring. Plain and simple. We can do one, but cant do the other.

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January 9th, 2012, 10:12 pm
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Post Re: steve spagnolia
I'm saying that improving both the D and offensive running game need to improve. And I agreed that the D is the most glaring need. However, it was suggested that 1500 yards is an impressive season rushing total when that sum is actually quite poor. I'm simply pointing out that when you face top tier QBs like Brees and Rodgers, you can't shut them down. You can, however, contain their scoring by limiting their opportunities.

Again, the D is first and foremost. They need to be able to get off the field. I'm just not convinced that the offense is a finished product.

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January 9th, 2012, 10:45 pm
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Post Re: steve spagnolia
mwill2 wrote:
I'm saying that improving both the D and offensive running game need to improve. And I agreed that the D is the most glaring need. However, it was suggested that 1500 yards is an impressive season rushing total when that sum is actually quite poor. I'm simply pointing out that when you face top tier QBs like Brees and Rodgers, you can't shut them down. You can, however, contain their scoring by limiting their opportunities.

Again, the D is first and foremost. They need to be able to get off the field. I'm just not convinced that the offense is a finished product.


Show me where I said that 1500 yards was impressive :!:

1,000 yards for a RB is the standard. Between Best and Smith, and MoMo we got 1,500 yards is all I was trying to point out. I never said it was impressive. So, don't be putting words in my mouth.

If you read it that way, then, you are just looking for an argument.


January 9th, 2012, 11:00 pm
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Post Re: steve spagnolia
No, you didn't use the word "impressive. If it bothers you, I retract it with my apologies. I certainly didn't want to misrepresent your intent. You seem to be using the statistic to show that the running game isn't as bad as people might think. I'm simply pointing out that 1500 yards of team rushing is poor when viewed as an isolated statistic. 1500 yards probably confirms what most people think--the Lions don't run the ball well.

[/threadjack] Sorry. Back on topic.

I completely disagree with the notion of replacing coaches and coordinators. The Lions haven't enjoyed this kind of coaching stability in a long, long time and I don't believe for a second that a coaching change would benefit the team. The issues are mostly personnel related, and most of these issues were known before the season began. For example, there is no depth in the secondary (we knew this at the beginning of the season) and the starters aren't world class either (we knew this at the beginning of the season too). Improve personnel. The coaches are fine.

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January 10th, 2012, 12:36 am
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Post Re: steve spagnolia
the defense was in the right position to make a few "game changing" plays saturday. Gunth called a good game.
i'm sticking with the bs ref non holding calls and bad calls theory til the end of time. garbage. (WHAT IS THAT NFL TRUST FUND THAT WILLIAM CLAY FORD DIDN'T DONATE $$$ FOR AGAIN??) Maybe if all of us bitter fans threw in a couple hundred bucks a piece, we could get in the good graces of the nfl and the refs. i don't see this changing anytime soon :evil:

missed tackles hurt bad though.. and the dropped picks by berry were glaring. the half step ez wright was behind allowed him to barely get the ball knocked out of his hands by meachum. ( i think joseph would have taken that pick to the house) but he plays for the texans.

I had us with 11 wins in 2010-11 season and 12 wins this year. but i'm dillusional.

i have respect for Spags but let's keep the pieces in place boys and just reload a bit for next year, hope we address our OL woes and our rbs can stay healthy. not gonna happen behind riola and backus.

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January 10th, 2012, 12:42 am
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Post Re: steve spagnolia
allenslions wrote:
no the reason i want spags is to bring a more traditional 4-3 defence and not play yes man to shwartz.the wide9 as a base defence desnt work against the run.it puts to much pressure on the linebackers.with the wide9 our tackles instead of taking on interior lineman allowing our backer to attack the ball carrier.they take themselves out of the play allowing guards to jump our backers giving the running back huge lanes to run thru.cause no sane scout would ever blame our linebackers for the bad run defence and i know because as other board members will tell you i am a pro scout.and isnt it funny that tulloch and durrant had major decreases in there tackle numbers and levy who wowed everyone his rookiee year now appears to have taken a big step back.oh yeah his rookie season the hadnt moved to the wide9 as there fulltime base yet.as for the prospects i,ll leave that to the draft forum.and if you want to come over there and bump heads with a real scout. bring it


I agree w the concept of adjusting the scheme to fit the personnel and the opponent but proscout or not you haven't answered really anything I posted. Find a place where I defended the wide 9 before u go on ur next rant. I think spags is a great coach but if Schwartz doesn't want a new defense why would I expect him to change it for spags - and not Cunningham who can hardly be described as a yes man? Consider new schemes, yes thats a good idea but I don't think someone has to be fired to do that. I have enough of a memory to know that the lions current defense did work and carry the team at times this season and they only really struggled when outmanned vs the packers or vs the nfl s best offense.

As for tackle numbers the total quantity isn't all that relevant. Where on the field the tackles are made is much more important - ie at LOS, stuffed for loss or 5-10 yards downfiled. Quantity of tackles could be affected by schedule ie playing against more or less run heavy teams and whether ur team is winning or losing the game as less teams run it when they are behind. Tulloch and Durant, prior to playing in Detroit, not only played for teams that were trailing quite a bit but had more run heavy opponents in there divisions. As for levy the scheme does seem to expose his weaknesses bc the end isn't staying home and fighting off the tackle te and fb toaintain outside contain but he is very poor at fighting off blocks, is slow to read and react, doesn't use his hands enough and often engages rather than avoids contact when on a pass Blitz. Finally when pursuing an outside run play he will go Behind the play and the lead blockers to chase the runner rather than play w a pursuit angle cross the face of the blockers and slow down the play so that his safety, corner, or teammates in pursuit have a chance to either make a play or bounce the play back to him. With all that as a weakness, its hard to imagine that scheme is responsible for Levy's poor play. Anyhow, what's ur scouting report on levy? Hopefully its more than ur previous post which just says that he hasn't played as well since the wide 9 scheme was brought in wo any explanation of why that might be. Surely as an nfl scout u would be able to give a better explanation than I can and all of us here would like to learn a thing or two from your expertise.


Last edited by The Legend on January 12th, 2012, 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.



January 10th, 2012, 8:14 pm
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Post Re: steve spagnolia
BillySims wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
Though I agree 100% that we need a better run game, I cant even think about anything offense related right now. I think this offseason needs to be focused on Defense, Defense, Defense, Offensive line, Defense, Defense...etc.



+1

Would it surprise you to know that the Lions ran for 1,500 yards this year?

But, we can't run!


Divide that x 4 running backs.


January 11th, 2012, 9:10 pm
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Post Re: steve spagnolia
The Legend wrote:
allenslions wrote:
no the reason i want spags is to bring a more traditional 4-3 defence and not play yes man to shwartz.the wide9 as a base defence desnt work against the run.it puts to much pressure on the linebackers.with the wide9 our tackles instead of taking on interior lineman allowing our backer to attack the ball carrier.they take themselves out of the play allowing guards to jump our backers giving the running back huge lanes to run thru.cause no sane scout would ever blame our linebackers for the bad run defence and i know because as other board members will tell you i am a pro scout.and isnt it funny that tulloch and durrant had major decreases in there tackle numbers and levy who wowed everyone his rookiee year now appears to have taken a big step back.oh yeah his rookie season the hadnt moved to the wide9 as there fulltime base yet.as for the prospects i,ll leave that to the draft forum.and if you want to come over there and bump heads with a real scout. bring it


I agree w the concept of adjusting the scheme to fit the personnel
and the opponent but proscout or not you haven't answered really anything I posted. find a place where I defended the wide 9 before u go on ur next rant. I think spags is a great coach but if Schwartz doesn't want a new defense why would I expect him to change it for spags and not Cunningham who can hardly be described as a yes man? Consider new schemes, yes good idea but I don't think someone has to be fired to do that. I have enough of a memory to know that the defense they used did work and carry the team at times this season and only really struggled when outmanned vs the packers or vs the nfl s best offense.

As for tackle numbers the total quantity isn't all that relevant to much of anything as much as where on the field the tackles are made, quantity could be affected by schedule ie playing against more or less run heavy teams and whether ur team is winning or losing the game as less teams run it when they are behind. Tulloch an Durant not only plate for teams that were trailing quite a bit but had more run heavy teams in there divisions. As for levy the scheme does seem to expose his weaknesses bc the end isn't staying home and fighting off the tackle te and fb toaintain outside contain but he is very poor at fighting off blocks, is slow to read and react, doesn't use his hands enough and often engages rarer than avoids contact when on a pass
Blitz. Finally when pursuing an outside run play he will go
Behind the play and the lead blockers to chase the runner rather than play w a pursuit angle cross the face of the blockers and slow down the play so that his
Safety corner or pursuit have a chance to either make a play or bounce the play back to him. What's ur scouting report on levy? Hopefully its more than ur previous post which just says that he hasn't played as well since the wide 9
Scheme was brought in wo any explanation of why that might be. Surely as an nfl scout u would be able to give a better explanation than I can and all is us here would like to learn a thing or two from your expertise.


That was very difficult to read.

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January 11th, 2012, 10:22 pm
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Post Re: steve spagnolia
Billy, we can't run, PERIOD! N.O. can run the ball. 4th and 2 is no big deal for them. We can't pick up 2-3 yards WHEN WE NEED TO. THAT'S being able to run the ball. These random scampers for 20 yards are nice, as is picking up 3 yards on first down but that's not "running the ball well."


Blueskies - We forced two turnovers (I believe in a row), the second after a decent drive. After the first turnover I think we got one first down, putting our D right back out there. After the second we went 3 and out, putting our D right back out there. After being on the field for the better part of that time period, N.O. finally went down and scored, easily! They got a fg with time expiring to end the 1/2. Then they went out there to start the 2nd half and scored again, easily.

Our D was fine in the first half when our offense was sustaining drives and allowing the defense to rest. It was our offense, not our defense that fell apart first. We should have been able to kill the majority of that 6 minutes or whatever it was that was left when we got our turn over, get at least a fg and go into the 1/2 up 17-10 (if not 21-10) at the half, WITH a well rested D and N.O. on their heels. If that was the case it would have been a completely different ballgame.


January 12th, 2012, 1:41 pm
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Post Re: steve spagnolia
I know some of you will be disappointed, but:
Detroit Free Press wrote:
General manager Martin Mayhew said today the Detroit Lions have re-signed all three of their coordinators: Scott Linehan, Gunther Cunningham and Danny Crossman.

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January 12th, 2012, 4:12 pm
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