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 TEBOW 
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Post Re: TEBOW
WarEr4Christ wrote:
tlb:

Let me answer the question by bringing in another team mate, unless of course I will need to start a whole new thread because I wanted to refer to the other person as an example.

Nate Burelson: Throughout this year his numbers have been down, but what has he been in the locker room? He has been nothing but a leader for our rookies, see the conversation he had with Titus after the PI penalties in game one with NO. Not only that, he has come from across the field to shout "MEGATRON is #1" during a post game, on the field interview that was at Oakland I believe.

Men that lead like that, make people around them better by exhibiting a self less attitude, and a willingness to let those who do shine, shine. Tebow has not be a great qb, initially it was suspected that his coach was trying to get him to fail by the game plan he called. But the TEAM won!

He's received nothing but ridicule for doing what? Praying? Giving credit to who HE believes deserves credit? Having worked in, and served with a NUMBER of people in similar situations, I would take a bunch of Tebow's over a few TO's. Because the Tebow's in the world will work together for the good of all, where as the TO's will work for themselves and demand their entitlement along the way.

So I gues give me Tebow!

The bolded part is what you continue to not get. While there are a small number of people criticizing him for his openness about his beliefs, the vast majority of the criticism of him has been due to his poor play, and the amount of credit he gets for the team winning. When he first started for Denver, he was terrible. Even when they started winning, he played awful. Even as recent as the week before the playoffs he was dreadful. In that game he completed 27.3% of his passes for a whopping 60 yds, rushed for 16 yds, and led his team to a total of 3 pts in the loss. That is a terrible performance, no matter how you slice it. But, there was the media doing all kinds of stories on him, and for what? His performance certainly didn't merit it.

Now, he did play really well in the playoff game, and he deserves credit for that. So I have no problem with him getting a lot of attention this week. He earned it with his performance. But I do have a problem with all the attention he gets when it was largely Denver's defense that won those games for them.

All that said, it's not his fault. It's the media. I don't hate Tebow. I hate how the media drools over him.

So, take a step back and look at the criticism that Tebow is getting. It's not due to his faith (for the most part), it's due to the media adulation.

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January 11th, 2012, 1:53 pm
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Post Re: TEBOW
Touchdown Jesus wrote:
WarEr4Christ wrote:
tlb:

Let me answer the question by bringing in another team mate, unless of course I will need to start a whole new thread because I wanted to refer to the other person as an example.

Nate Burelson: Throughout this year his numbers have been down, but what has he been in the locker room? He has been nothing but a leader for our rookies, see the conversation he had with Titus after the PI penalties in game one with NO. Not only that, he has come from across the field to shout "MEGATRON is #1" during a post game, on the field interview that was at Oakland I believe.

Men that lead like that, make people around them better by exhibiting a self less attitude, and a willingness to let those who do shine, shine. Tebow has not be a great qb, initially it was suspected that his coach was trying to get him to fail by the game plan he called. But the TEAM won!

He's received nothing but ridicule for doing what? Praying? Giving credit to who HE believes deserves credit? Having worked in, and served with a NUMBER of people in similar situations, I would take a bunch of Tebow's over a few TO's. Because the Tebow's in the world will work together for the good of all, where as the TO's will work for themselves and demand their entitlement along the way.

So I gues give me Tebow!

The bolded part is what you continue to not get. While there are a small number of people criticizing him for his openness about his beliefs, the vast majority of the criticism of him has been due to his poor play, and the amount of credit he gets for the team winning. When he first started for Denver, he was terrible. Even when they started winning, he played awful. Even as recent as the week before the playoffs he was dreadful. In that game he completed 27.3% of his passes for a whopping 60 yds, rushed for 16 yds, and led his team to a total of 3 pts in the loss. That is a terrible performance, no matter how you slice it. But, there was the media doing all kinds of stories on him, and for what? His performance certainly didn't merit it.

Now, he did play really well in the playoff game, and he deserves credit for that. So I have no problem with him getting a lot of attention this week. He earned it with his performance. But I do have a problem with all the attention he gets when it was largely Denver's defense that won those games for them.

All that said, it's not his fault. It's the media. I don't hate Tebow. I hate how the media drools over him.

So, take a step back and look at the criticism that Tebow is getting. It's not due to his faith (for the most part), it's due to the media adulation.


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January 11th, 2012, 2:14 pm
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Post Re: TEBOW
Pablo wrote:
Tebow over Roethlisberger? Methinks WarEr4Christ is really Moron of the Millennium!


But he's got "football character." :D ](*,)

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January 11th, 2012, 2:38 pm
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Post Re: TEBOW
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/skye-jeth ... 84345.html

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Is Tim Tebow a Hypocrite?

Tim Tebow represents America's two great religions: Christianity and Football. But the way the young Denver Broncos' quarterback intertwines the two has made some followers of each faith uncomfortable. His post-game interviews always begin with "I'd like to thank my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ," and he frequently drops to one knee on the field and bows his head in prayer--a posture now called Tebowing. (Check out the website featuring photos of others Tebowing in public places.)

But Tim Tebow's behavior on the field does raise important questions about prayer and how Christians ought to practice it. Andrew Sullivan criticized Tim Tebow saying his public prayers violate Jesus' teaching in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5-7) where he taught his followers to pray in private:

"And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you." (Matthew 6:5-6)

Referencing Tebow's habit of praying during NFL games before millions of spectators, Sullivan asks "Why does a Christian publicly repudiate the God he worships?" Is Sullivan right? Is Tim Tebow actually violating the teachings of Christ with his behavior on the field? The answer is more complicated than critics of publicly practiced religion may prefer.

Strictly speaking Jesus did not prohibit public prayer. In fact he prayed publicly on numerous occasions including before meals (Mark 6:41) and among a crowd prior to raising Lazarus from the grave (John 11:41-42). He also prayed where his followers could see and hear him. As a result they asked him, "Lord, teach us to pray," (Luke 11:1).

What Jesus does reject in his Sermon on the Mount is hypocritical prayer. The word hypocrite is derived from the Greek meaning actor. It is literally one who pretends; one who fakes it. This is what Jesus sees among many outwardly religious people. They are pretending to be devoted to God so that they may win the approval of people. Remember, ancient Judea was a culture that highly valued religiosity. Such communities, past and present, put great emphasis on external evidence of religious devotion, and this tends to fuel hypocrisy.

At the core of Jesus' teaching then is not the mechanics of prayer (how, when, where), but rather the motivation for prayer (why). Are we praying out of genuine devotion to God, or merely to win favor with people? I do not know what powers of perception Andrew Sullivan has, but I am incapable of peering into Tim Tebow's soul to determine his motivation for praying on the field. If he is praying to win the accolades of the spectators, then Jesus says he has his reward. Unlike Sullivan, I choose to give Tebow the benefit of the doubt and assume his motives are pure.

Still, Jesus does offer practical advise for avoiding the pitfall of hypocrisy we can all stumble into. He tells us to pray in private. Privacy makes hypocrisy impossible. One cannot act without an audience. But does this call to pray behind closed doors still apply in our increasingly secular setting? Unlike 1st century Judea, 15th century Europe, or 18th century New England, our culture does not reward public religiosity. Today those who stand on street corners to preach or pray tend to be maligned rather than magnified. In our context praying "to be seen by others" is a less potent temptation.

Or is it?

I think a case could be made that the emergence of digital communication and online social media has made religious hypocrisy a more dangerous temptation today than we often recognize. Lee Siegel in his book Against the Machine, discusses how we hide behind false, "phantom" identities on the internet. It's a medium we think fosters immediacy and authenticity, but in truth it breeds shallowness. It allows us to easily build and present a facade to the world; an image of who we wish to be rather than who we really are. And in the case of social media sites like Facebook and Twitter, intimate relationships that peer behind our facades are nearly impossible to foster (despite what so many 16-year-old girls wish to believe). In other words, on the web hypocrisy is not only easy, it is mandatory.

When Christians live and display their religious lives online it can lead to precisely the danger Jesus warns about--seeking the approval of people rather than intimacy with God. I once heard a relationship counselor say, "There can be no intimacy without privacy." She went on to describe this as the real danger of constant social media activity. If everything is on display, nothing remains to bind two people together. There is no secret knowledge or activity upon which their communion can be rooted. People who put everything on display, including their religious lives, for mass consumption seek to win the approval of others by being transparent. But in the process they lose the ability to nourish their souls in true intimacy with God and others.

So why are we so tempted to put our life, including our life with God, on display online? In the 2004 film Shall We Dance, one character had a really insightful bit of dialogue:

"We need a witness to our lives. There's a billion people on the planet... I mean, what does any one life really mean? But in a marriage, you're promising to care about everything. The good things, the bad things, the terrible things, the mundane things... all of it, all of the time, every day. You're saying 'Your life will not go unnoticed because I will notice it. Your life will not go un-witnessed because I will be your witness'."

We all want our lives to matter, and we believe they only matter if they are noticed by someone. I wonder if this desire for a witness isn't what fuels a lot of blogs, Facebook, and especially Twitter. We want someone, anyone, to take notice, to care about us, to watch us and by their attention communicate, "You matter. Your life counts." If this is one of the hidden motivations behind engaging social media, and I think it is, we're really talking about a spiritual hunger--one that cannot ultimately be satisfied online. This kind of hunger for intimacy can only be satisfied in hidden, private communion with our Creator. As the psalmist says:

O LORD, you have searched me and you know me. You know when I sit and when I rise; you perceive my thoughts from afar. You discern my going out and my lying down; you are familiar with all my ways. Before a word is on my tongue you know it completely, O LORD.

I believe in God's economy there is not a single thought, feeling, or moment that is lost. There is nothing that is unseen or unrecorded. But in our culture of digital voyeurism, we are tempted to believe things only become real when they are external...on paper, published, posted, tweeted, or displayed. All the more reason why we need to recapture the discipline of secrecy in order to foster our trust that God is indeed with us and witnessing every thought and reflection. In the privacy of prayer I discover that my life really does matter--not because someone read it, heard it, or saw it, but because God is my witness.

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January 12th, 2012, 6:59 pm
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Post Re: TEBOW
Pablo:

I got through about half of the article, and I think it was enough to get the gist of what was being shared. In response to this article here would be my answer:

You shall know a tree by it's fruits. From what I understood about the hypocritical comment, I didn't see where Tebow was being hypocritical. If he was running to the bar, getting drunk, laying a score of women, and then driving, all while portraying himself as a Christian, then yes the monacre would fit.

I also see this persons understanding of Scripture as being VERY legalistic. There was absolutely NO gray area in his understanding of Scripture, and so he took it at face value, which is only partially true. The Bible is a living document in that it appeals to, and changes as your understanding grows. So his standpoint is skewed from that perspective.

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January 12th, 2012, 8:47 pm
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Post Re: TEBOW
the writer of that article is as bad as fanatical christians who use passages from the bible as weapons. you take out the intent and context out of the passage and clip it out to serve a purpose of the argument instead of serving it's original intent.

Tebow celebrating the moment and giving thanks through prayer is not exactly what Jesus was talking about in the passages the author used. if you'd like to see for yourself, I believe that in particular set of passages was in the boook of Mathew. (could be wrong but im pretty sure)

(for point of reference this is comming form someone who is pretty disgusted by the media circus that has become the Tebow Show)


January 13th, 2012, 12:14 pm
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Post Re: TEBOW
ESPN wrote:
I believe in Tim Tebow

I've come to believe in Tim Tebow, but not for what he does on a football field, which is still three parts Dr. Jekyll and two parts Mr. Hyde.

No, I've come to believe in Tim Tebow for what he does off a football field, which is represent the best parts of us, the parts I want to be and so rarely am.

Who among us is this selfless?

Every week, Tebow picks out someone who is suffering, or who is dying, or who is injured, flies them and their families to the Broncos game, rents them a car, puts them up in a nice hotel, buys them dinner (usually at a Dave and Buster's), gets them and their families pregame passes, visits with them just before kickoff (!), gets them 30-yard line tickets down low, visits with them after the game (sometimes for an hour), has them walk him to his car, and sends them off with a basket of gifts.

Home or road, win or lose, hero or goat.

Remember last week, when the world was pulling its hair out in the hour after Tebow had stunned the Pittsburgh Steelers with an 80-yard OT touchdown pass to Demaryius Thomas in the playoffs? And Twitter was exploding with 9,420 tweets about Tebow per second? When an ESPN poll was naming him the most popular athlete in America?

Tebow was spending that hour talking to 16-year-old Bailey Knaub about her 73 surgeries so far and what TV shows she likes.

"Here he'd just played the game of his life," recalls Bailey's mother, Kathy, of Loveland, Colo., "and the first thing he does after his press conference is come find Bailey and ask, 'Did you get anything to eat?' He acted like what he'd just done wasn't anything, like it was all about Bailey."

More than that, Tebow kept corralling people into the room for Bailey to meet. Hey, Demaryius, come in here a minute. Hey, Mr. Elway. Hey, Coach Fox.

Even though sometimes-fatal Wegener's granulomatosis has left Bailey with only one lung, the attention took her breath away.

"It was the best day of my life," she emailed. "It was a bright star among very gloomy and difficult days. Tim Tebow gave me the greatest gift I could ever imagine. He gave me the strength for the future. I know now that I can face any obstacle placed in front of me. Tim taught me to never give up because at the end of the day, today might seem bleak but it can't rain forever and tomorrow is a new day, with new promises."

I read that email to Tebow and he was honestly floored.

"Why me? Why should I inspire her?" he said. "I just don't feel, I don't know, adequate. Really, hearing her story inspires me."

It's not just NFL defenses that get Tebowed. It's kids who will die soon. It's adults who can hardly stand. It's high school girls who don't know if they'll ever go to a prom.

For the game at Buffalo, it was Charlottesville, Va., blue-chip high school QB Jacob Rainey, who lost his leg after a freak tackle in a scrimmage. Tebow threw three interceptions in that Buffalo game and the Broncos were crushed, 40-14.

"He walked in and took a big sigh and said, 'Well, that didn't go as planned,'" remembers Rainey. "Where I'm from, people wonder how sincere and genuine he is. But I think he's the most genuine person I've ever met."

There's not an ounce of artifice or phoniness or Hollywood in this kid Tebow and I've looked everywhere for it.

Take 9-year-old Zac Taylor, a child who lives in constant pain. Immediately after Tebow shocked the Chicago Bears with a 13-10 comeback win, Tebow spent an hour with Zac and his family. At one point, Zac, who has 10 doctors, asked Tebow if he has a secret prayer for hospital visits. Tebow whispered it in his ear. And since Tebow still needed to be checked out by the Broncos' team doctor, he took Zac in with him, but only after they'd whispered it together.

And it's not always kids. Tom Driscoll, a 55-year-old who is dying of brain cancer at a hospice in Denver, was Tebow's guest for the Cincinnati game. "The doctors took some of my brain," Driscoll says, "so my short-term memory is kind of shot. But that day I'll never forget. Tim is such a good man."

This whole thing makes no football sense, of course. Most NFL players hardly talk to teammates before a game, much less visit with the sick and dying.

Isn't that a huge distraction?

"Just the opposite," Tebow says. "It's by far the best thing I do to get myself ready. Here you are, about to play a game that the world says is the most important thing in the world. Win and they praise you. Lose and they crush you. And here I have a chance to talk to the coolest, most courageous people. It puts it all into perspective. The game doesn't really matter. I mean, I'll give 100 percent of my heart to win it, but in the end, the thing I most want to do is not win championships or make a lot of money, it's to invest in people's lives, to make a difference."

So that's it. I've given up giving up on him. I'm a 100 percent believer. Not in his arm. Not in his skills. I believe in his heart, his there-will-definitely-be-a-pony-under-the-tree optimism, the way his love pours into people, right up to their eyeballs, until they believe they can master the hopeless comeback, too.

Remember the QB who lost his leg, Jacob Rainey? He got his prosthetic leg a few weeks ago and he wants to play high school football next season. Yes, tackle football. He'd be the first to do that on an above-the-knee amputation.

Hmmm. Wonder where he got that crazy idea?

"Tim told me to keep fighting, no matter what," Rainey says. "I am."

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January 13th, 2012, 3:20 pm
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Post Re: TEBOW
Pablo wrote:
and then there is this, on NFL.com of all places - what is the world coming to?

http://www.nfl.com/photos/09000d5d825e1 ... 5d825e250d

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January 13th, 2012, 3:42 pm
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Post Re: TEBOW
What a Jackass this guy is, after all this media praise...






(that was Sarcasm before anyone yells).

I am not a Christian by any means, but how anyone can have something bad to say about this kid or the example he is setting (unless its minutes after he knocked you out of the playoffs) is beyond me. The wolrd would be a better place with more people who treat others like that, end of story.


January 13th, 2012, 3:59 pm
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Post Re: TEBOW
Pablo wrote:
Pablo wrote:
and then there is this, on NFL.com of all places - what is the world coming to?

http://www.nfl.com/photos/09000d5d825e1 ... 5d825e250d



see right there is the stuff that annoys the crap out of me. in the middle of the playoffs im looking at imaginary children of Tebow and girlfriends he doesn't even have??? REALLY??? disgusting.

Now Tebow looks to be just a great guy. I have no gripe against him. But the BS media crap like this on NFL.com......is just disgusting.


January 13th, 2012, 4:24 pm
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Moron of the millineum here,

So do you mean to tell me that you wouldn't want a guy like this on your team? think of how jazzed the Lions fans were when the team circled the field giving high fives before going into the locker room. Now imagine that kind of access?

Interesting point is, we had a guy like that on the team. Zack Follet! He allowed access into his life, the life of a professional football player, at unprecedented levels. What did that get him? Tons of fans, high praise from said fans, and for what? Because he allowed us a chance to escape our lives and participate in his in some level.

Zac wasn't that great of a LB either, but he had the adoration of fans from all over.

If Tebow can be taught, and developed he can be serviceable. Meyer was able to do a lot with him over the course of time that he had him at Florida. So train him, game plan for him, and see if he can do better, but don't hate him because his character is so strong.

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January 13th, 2012, 5:56 pm
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WarEr4Christ wrote:
Moron of the millineum here,

So do you mean to tell me that you wouldn't want a guy like this on your team? think of how jazzed the Lions fans were when the team circled the field giving high fives before going into the locker room. Now imagine that kind of access?

Interesting point is, we had a guy like that on the team. Zack Follet! He allowed access into his life, the life of a professional football player, at unprecedented levels. What did that get him? Tons of fans, high praise from said fans, and for what? Because he allowed us a chance to escape our lives and participate in his in some level.

Zac wasn't that great of a LB either, but he had the adoration of fans from all over.

If Tebow can be taught, and developed he can be serviceable. Meyer was able to do a lot with him over the course of time that he had him at Florida. So train him, game plan for him, and see if he can do better, but don't hate him because his character is so strong.


i dont think It's Tebow himself that people have a problem with. It's the rediculous attention that in some cases is simply unwarranted. Where are the Jon Kitna imaginary children picks? He is a strong christian that does TONS for charity.

fact is the media has turned a solid guy into a side show. they give credit that he doesn't deserve, and then knock him harder than a rookie QB (which he basically is) deserves.
The guy is a stand up guy...no doubts. it's the frickin Media thats driving everybody nuts. common are you going to tell me that thing on NFL.com is in any way shape or form anything worth viewing MUCH LESS actually taking the time to do durring the middle of the playoffs? if it were the offseason and nothing was going on I could see this kind of.....fluff?? garbage?? but in the middle of the playoffs.....They are simply making a mockery of the man.


January 13th, 2012, 6:09 pm
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Post Re: TEBOW
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Moron of the millineum here,

So do you mean to tell me that you wouldn't want a guy like this on your team? think of how jazzed the Lions fans were when the team circled the field giving high fives before going into the locker room. Now imagine that kind of access?

Interesting point is, we had a guy like that on the team. Zack Follet! He allowed access into his life, the life of a professional football player, at unprecedented levels. What did that get him? Tons of fans, high praise from said fans, and for what? Because he allowed us a chance to escape our lives and participate in his in some level.

Zac wasn't that great of a LB either, but he had the adoration of fans from all over.

If Tebow can be taught, and developed he can be serviceable. Meyer was able to do a lot with him over the course of time that he had him at Florida. So train him, game plan for him, and see if he can do better, but don't hate him because his character is so strong.


I want talent (aka Stafford) and not a nice guy w/ limited talent (aka Tebow). I don't have anything against him personally, but the hype he is getting about a game when he completed 10 passes (and it took him until OT to get to double digits) and hitting under 50% of his passes - no thanks. I'll take the 5,000+ yard and 40+ TD guy over the rah rah guy.

You don't win Super Bowls with, to use your term, a "serviceable" QB. I think what the fans of the Lions want, more than anything else, is to win! Detroit fell in love with Ty Cobb, the bad boy of baseball, and the original "Bad Boys" in the NBA.

Zach was "serviceable" as well, glad you liked him but give me a bad buy like Ray Lewis who can play. This is football played on Sunday, not Sunday school...

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January 13th, 2012, 6:57 pm
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Post Re: TEBOW
^^^ Ding dong. Joe's right.

Tebow is a barely adequate QB who's winning due to a solid defense and a good running game. Tebow throws the skinny post to the left, about 10-15 yards deep. That's the ONLY throw he can make and the only one he's comfortable with. That's NOT an NFL QB.

The media is making Tebow out to be some sort of All-Star freak-show QB. It's like Jeckyl and Hyde. It's not his fault. It's these morons on ESPN who devote an entire F'ing hour called "Tebow Time" and "Tebow Business". Those idiots made a song about him saying "all he does is win" and "he's a baller, a shot caller". WTF? Notice how when they were on that 3 game losing streak, ESPN had very, very little to do with him? Then, he wins a playoff game and they have an entire LeBron James style hour devoted to him? Absolutely ludicrous. The media is the problem. Not the fans, not Christians, not Athiests, not football analysts - the media.

To spin any sort of Tebow hate into an argument of religion (that people hate Tebow because he's Christian) is pretty sad IMO, all it does is scream "hey, listen to me babble about my religion" that 99% of the people don't care about. Has Christianity shrunk so much that there are so few Christians playing professional sports? No. You can't walk through a locker room without seeing a crucifix necklace or Jesus on the cross necklace. How many baseball players raise their hands to the sky to praise the Lord after a big hit? How many football players after scoring a TD? How many soccer players that slide and clench their fists and praise the Lord? Seems extremely common.

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January 13th, 2012, 6:59 pm
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Post Re: TEBOW
Hey WarEr4Christ, do you not read what people write on here about Tebow or what? You keep bringing up this concept that Tebow is hated for his Christianity or his character, when nobody is criticizing him for that. I'm just curious why you don't acknowledge anyone's argument that refutes what you're saying and just keep repeating your argument (which is factually incorrect btw).

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January 13th, 2012, 11:33 pm
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