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 2012 NFL Mock Draft 
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Post Re: New 2012 NFL Mock Draft
allenslions wrote:
Tqwey feel very strongly about goz moving inside.a move i feel is long over due.they also know what culbreath brings to the table.u guys dont .i feel that if they can nail down gaither these moves will drasticaly impove our run blocking


Remember though... You're asking me to trust an organization that has no heir apparent for Backus, drafted Gos in the first place, failed to be imaginative and work him inside last season, over paid and extended Raiola, and has failed to strengthen our interior OL for the last10 years.

It seems to me that the "organization" is blinded by their closeness to some of the players on the team.


February 13th, 2012, 3:23 am
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Post Re: New 2012 NFL Mock Draft
m2karateman wrote:
DJ-B wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
For health reasons, I understand the pick, but other than that Im scratching my head. And I also wonder why at this point a team even has a "board". There hasnt been a combine, pro days, visits/interviews etc.


All Teams have a board, likely started by their scouting dept before the season ends. While the coaches are worried about THIS Season, the scouting dept people are working year round looking at the future. And as Allenslions said (and has been mentioned by many Coaches/GMs and Scouts in articles), teams put very little stock int he combine. They put WAY more stock in Playing Tape, Informed Opinions of those who have worked with those players, and the personal interviews/workouts they have when they bring their targetlist players into the facilities after the combine.

P.S. - I would be flat out depressed if they draft a RB, and would expect a 1st rd playoff exit at best if they do. Doesnt mean i don't believe the info your feeding allens, as youve had good info before.. just that it would depress me and it appears like a very poor decision. If they dont feel like Konz or Cordy Glenn could be the 1 extra piece in addition to Goz going inside then I hope they take aserious look at Mark Barron. I think he can be the Center fielder next to Delmas that our Secondary needs, and makes our CBs serviceable pushing Speivey back to BU safety at both positions which is where he belongs.


I can understand the feelings of drafting a RB first, especially after using two high picks the past two seasons on players at the position. But fate isn't cooperating. Best is one concussion away from being a drool factory, and LeShoure's injury couldn't be foreseen and will have a definite impact on his future in the NFL. I now see LeShoure become a strict power back, without the lateral quickness he had previous to the injury. We all know Kevin Smith is definitely not the answer. Neither is Maurice Morris, who will likely leave in free agency.

I am not overjoyed with the idea that the Lions would draft a RB first this coming draft. I think if there are certain players available when the Lions pick, they would make much more sense. However....I am not a scout. I am not a general manager. I am not a coach. And neither are most of the other readers and posters in this forum. After going from 0-16 to 10-6 in three seasons, with one off-season severely shortened by labor issues, I'd say place your trust in Mayhew/Lewand/Schwartz. If they have their sights set on Lamar Miller in round one and take him, then I'll allow their recent success to buoy my faith in them, even if I don't really agree with the pick. After all, for most of us, we would have made different picks over the past three drafts and probably would have been wrong more than right. For instance, I wasn't on board with the Stafford pick. I couldn't have been more wrong. Many thought the Titus Young pick was stupid. I think he proved his worth over the course of the season.

That said, even if they take Miller in round one, I am hoping they take a serious step towards addressing the offensive line in the rounds thereafter if it wasn't dealt with sufficiently in free agency. By the time the draft rolls around, the Lions Big Board may change slightly. Even though they may be targeting Gaither in free agency, there's no guarantee he leaves San Diego. The REAL question is, how interested is Gaither in coming to play for the Lions, and how much can the Lions afford to pay him? And if he does come here, he better be prepared to suffer some slings and arrows if he doesn't play lights out. The fact that he's been bounced by a couple different teams doesn't really thrill me.

As for the first round playoff exit if they draft a RB....no offense, but that's kind of a ridiculous statement. One player isn't going to make that much of a difference, even on the defense. I think defensively there must be some scheme changes that have to take place. Most of us have commented on the shortcomings of running the Wide 9 defense a majority of the time. I am hoping the coaches see the need to pare down on using it quite so often, particularly after watching the Saints running game gash them for so much late in the playoff game running successfully off tackle. Hopefully a regular length off-season, some personnel upgrades and close scrutiny of how teams molested our defense when they were in that alignment serves as a wake up call to the coaching staff.



The more I think about it, " If they have their sights set on Lamar Miller in round one " I just don't buy it. I mean cmon, this is Mayhew we are talking about. Finding it hard to believe he would go any way but BPA. Meaning, he won't ignore other players who are potentially, more talented, or higher valued, just to accommodate the deficiency at RB. Sure they may like the kid alot, but on draft day, after the first 22 fall, he'll see what's left. I doubt they were thinking Fairley would be there last year.


February 13th, 2012, 9:03 am
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Post Re: New 2012 NFL Mock Draft
liontrax wrote:
The more I think about it, " If they have their sights set on Lamar Miller in round one " I just don't buy it. I mean cmon, this is Mayhew we are talking about. Finding it hard to believe he would go any way but BPA. Meaning, he won't ignore other players who are potentially, more talented, or higher valued, just to accommodate the deficiency at RB. Sure they may like the kid alot, but on draft day, after the first 22 fall, he'll see what's left. I doubt they were thinking Fairley would be there last year.


I have to imagine the premise of the Lions taking Miller is based on some mock drafts they've already done among the FO and coaching staff. I agree that last year they probably didn't imagine Fairley being available. I recall the fact that last year when the Lions were on the clock, they were on the phone with someone (likely Denver) and for whatever reason the trade didn't get done. IIRC the scuttlebutt was that the Lions were actually interested in Jimmy Smith, but didn't feel he was worth the pick and were looking to move down to get better value. However, I agree that despite the fact that Miller may be their top wish list player, it may not be him on top of the draft board come that magical day. It may just be that he's the one they see that has the best chance of being there and would be their pick if players X, Y and Z are already off their board.


wjb21ndtown wrote:
Remember though... You're asking me to trust an organization that has no heir apparent for Backus, drafted Gos in the first place, failed to be imaginative and work him inside last season, over paid and extended Raiola, and has failed to strengthen our interior OL for the last10 years.

It seems to me that the "organization" is blinded by their closeness to some of the players on the team.


Well, I think you are mixing up regimes here a little bit wjb. Millen was the one who extended both Backus and Raiola, as well as having reached for Gos in the draft. The current regime did take us to the playoffs this year, and they did draft Jason Fox, who was seen as a great value in round four and just can't stay off the trainers table. Perhaps he can step in this season and stay healthy, much like Stafford did last season after his first two injury plagued seasons. However, I would like to think the Lions current braintrust won't count on that happening and will continue to look for o-line upgrades.

I would prefer the team get rid of Peterman and Cherilus altogether, since I think both are overpaid and a liability regardless of where they play. Cherilus might not be as much of a problem inside, but he still has the brain of a gnat. But we can't just do a wholesale switch at every offensive line position in one year, so we'll have to continue to live with certain elements of them in 2012.

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February 13th, 2012, 11:59 am
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Post Re: New 2012 NFL Mock Draft
m2karateman wrote:
liontrax wrote:
The more I think about it, " If they have their sights set on Lamar Miller in round one " I just don't buy it. I mean cmon, this is Mayhew we are talking about. Finding it hard to believe he would go any way but BPA. Meaning, he won't ignore other players who are potentially, more talented, or higher valued, just to accommodate the deficiency at RB. Sure they may like the kid alot, but on draft day, after the first 22 fall, he'll see what's left. I doubt they were thinking Fairley would be there last year.


I have to imagine the premise of the Lions taking Miller is based on some mock drafts they've already done among the FO and coaching staff. I agree that last year they probably didn't imagine Fairley being available. I recall the fact that last year when the Lions were on the clock, they were on the phone with someone (likely Denver) and for whatever reason the trade didn't get done. IIRC the scuttlebutt was that the Lions were actually interested in Jimmy Smith, but didn't feel he was worth the pick and were looking to move down to get better value. However, I agree that despite the fact that Miller may be their top wish list player, it may not be him on top of the draft board come that magical day. It may just be that he's the one they see that has the best chance of being there and would be their pick if players X, Y and Z are already off their board.


wjb21ndtown wrote:
Remember though... You're asking me to trust an organization that has no heir apparent for Backus, drafted Gos in the first place, failed to be imaginative and work him inside last season, over paid and extended Raiola, and has failed to strengthen our interior OL for the last10 years.

It seems to me that the "organization" is blinded by their closeness to some of the players on the team.


Well, I think you are mixing up regimes here a little bit wjb. Millen was the one who extended both Backus and Raiola, as well as having reached for Gos in the draft. The current regime did take us to the playoffs this year, and they did draft Jason Fox, who was seen as a great value in round four and just can't stay off the trainers table. Perhaps he can step in this season and stay healthy, much like Stafford did last season after his first two injury plagued seasons. However, I would like to think the Lions current braintrust won't count on that happening and will continue to look for o-line upgrades.

I would prefer the team get rid of Peterman and Cherilus altogether, since I think both are overpaid and a liability regardless of where they play. Cherilus might not be as much of a problem inside, but he still has the brain of a gnat. But we can't just do a wholesale switch at every offensive line position in one year, so we'll have to continue to live with certain elements of them in 2012.


Well said.

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February 13th, 2012, 2:20 pm
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Post Re: New 2012 NFL Mock Draft
The talk of anyone as THE pick for the Lions is premature. Until the team knows if Avril is going to re-sign or go elsewhere, what happens with Tulloch, and the structure of CJ's contract, as well as how Free Agency shakes out before the draft, they can't say definitively how they are going to approach pick #23. I'm sure they can look at their team as it was constructed in 2011 and say, "Lamar Miller would fit great in our offense", but that's far from being a sure thing. Also, there are some big assumptions happening to get us to this point. Gaither to replace Backus, Sims, Raiola, Gos, Culbreath. Is Culbreath going to be able to win the starting role this year? What if Gaither stays in SD? What if the OL goes into OTA's looking the same as it did this year? Would you choose a RB then?

We can all make predictions, and some may have some "insider knowledge" which is fine, but until the things mentioned above, FA, Contracts etc, I'm going to proceed through this draft season assuming that the team will remain relatively similar to 2011.

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February 13th, 2012, 5:39 pm
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Post Re: New 2012 NFL Mock Draft
Wayne Fontes wrote:
The talk of anyone as THE pick for the Lions is premature. Until the team knows if Avril is going to re-sign or go elsewhere, what happens with Tulloch, and the structure of CJ's contract, as well as how Free Agency shakes out before the draft, they can't say definitively how they are going to approach pick #23. I'm sure they can look at their team as it was constructed in 2011 and say, "Lamar Miller would fit great in our offense", but that's far from being a sure thing. Also, there are some big assumptions happening to get us to this point. Gaither to replace Backus, Sims, Raiola, Gos, Culbreath. Is Culbreath going to be able to win the starting role this year? What if Gaither stays in SD? What if the OL goes into OTA's looking the same as it did this year? Would you choose a RB then?

We can all make predictions, and some may have some "insider knowledge" which is fine, but until the things mentioned above, FA, Contracts etc, I'm going to proceed through this draft season assuming that the team will remain relatively similar to 2011.



VERY well said. I think what you said should summarize this whole thing. It really is too early to say ANYONE will be "their guy" on draft day. Theres just way too much that has to happen yet from now until the draft that can drastically affect who the Lions or any other team will draft. First things first, lets resign Avril and CJ and hopefully Tulloch, then move on from there.

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February 13th, 2012, 6:01 pm
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Post Re: New 2012 NFL Mock Draft
m2karateman wrote:
Well, I think you are mixing up regimes here a little bit wjb. Millen was the one who extended both Backus and Raiola, as well as having reached for Gos in the draft. The current regime did take us to the playoffs this year, and they did draft Jason Fox, who was seen as a great value in round four and just can't stay off the trainers table. Perhaps he can step in this season and stay healthy, much like Stafford did last season after his first two injury plagued seasons. However, I would like to think the Lions current braintrust won't count on that happening and will continue to look for o-line upgrades.

I would prefer the team get rid of Peterman and Cherilus altogether, since I think both are overpaid and a liability regardless of where they play. Cherilus might not be as much of a problem inside, but he still has the brain of a gnat. But we can't just do a wholesale switch at every offensive line position in one year, so we'll have to continue to live with certain elements of them in 2012.


I understand where you're coming from, but I don't hold them completely harmless. I mean, Mayhew was still Millen's understudy, and he doesn't seem to "get it" when it comes to the importance of the OL. We still went into this season with Peterman as a starting OG, and Cherilus as our starting RT, with little done to assist in the matter, and we did draft Pettigrew over Alex Mack. I preferred Mack at the time, I think Mack would have made a bigger impact on this team, and I think Pett is over-rated, and has underperformed. I mean, he's getting outplayed by NUMEROUS 3rd round and later TEs all over the map.

Not to mention the "insider" reports that we're looking to basically do nothing to the OL this year, other than start Culbreath at RT and move Gos inside, and TRY to sign Gaither.

I can't say I'm happy about that plan one bit.


February 13th, 2012, 6:13 pm
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Post Re: New 2012 NFL Mock Draft
First lets put the miller thing straight.yes the team has him rated as the number 2 guy on there board but dont believe he will fall to them so yes there are other guys they like.my opinion was he gets falls to us and they feel its like fairley last year


February 14th, 2012, 1:04 am
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Post Re: New 2012 NFL Mock Draft
Also i asked my friend at dinner why they were so strong on culbreath.and this is a cool little camp story.it seems avril was match up against the kid for a couple indoor practices and was getting completely stoned when gunther finally pulled cliff


February 14th, 2012, 1:24 am
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Post Re: New 2012 NFL Mock Draft
Gunther jumped on him aboutbnot being able to beat a 7rd pick.cliff responded that he didnt play like a 7rder he played like a probowler.they knew he was behind with the playbook because of the strike and his learning disability they had to hide him on ir


February 14th, 2012, 1:32 am
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Post Re: New 2012 NFL Mock Draft
allenslions wrote:
First lets put the miller thing straight.yes the team has him rated as the number 2 guy on there board but dont believe he will fall to them so yes there are other guys they like.my opinion was he gets falls to us and they feel its like fairley last year



So if Miller ISNT their #1 guy ont their board, who is?

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February 14th, 2012, 2:21 am
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Post Re: New 2012 NFL Mock Draft
kdsberman wrote:
allenslions wrote:
First lets put the miller thing straight.yes the team has him rated as the number 2 guy on there board but dont believe he will fall to them so yes there are other guys they like.my opinion was he gets falls to us and they feel its like fairley last year



So if Miller ISNT their #1 guy ont their board, who is?


im guessing Barron since none of the CBs seem to fit that pick area and we know based on last offseason that they see the secondary as sill a need, and based on allens inside info that they arent hot on the OL picks we alllike such as Konz and Glenn. Barron is also expected to be gone before us so he would fit that same situation as Miller.

I can hope anyways.


February 14th, 2012, 3:35 am
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Post Re: New 2012 NFL Mock Draft
DJ-B wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
allenslions wrote:
First lets put the miller thing straight.yes the team has him rated as the number 2 guy on there board but dont believe he will fall to them so yes there are other guys they like.my opinion was he gets falls to us and they feel its like fairley last year



So if Miller ISNT their #1 guy ont their board, who is?


im guessing Barron since none of the CBs seem to fit that pick area and we know based on last offseason that they see the secondary as sill a need, and based on allens inside info that they arent hot on the OL picks we alllike such as Konz and Glenn. Barron is also expected to be gone before us so he would fit that same situation as Miller.

I can hope anyways.



Saw this at gbnreport.com: Tide S to miss combine … Alabama safety Mark Barron reportedly will miss the scouting combine after undergoing double hernia surgery. Barron, who is projected to be the first safety off the board this coming April, is expected to be out up to 8 weeks, meaning that he could still have time to go through a private workout prior to the draft, although its not likely that he would be in top physical condition at that time.

Wondering if this will hurt his draft stock?


February 14th, 2012, 7:48 am
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Post Re: New 2012 NFL Mock Draft
I think it could affect his stock, but if he's going to have a pro day we'll be able to get some basic info on the guy from that instead of at the Combine. Most of his evaluation is going to be off of his film as has been mentioned already in this thread.

V-Day is like the Combine. If you haven't been paying attention to the little things all year, 1 day won't help.

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February 14th, 2012, 11:31 am
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Post Re: New 2012 NFL Mock Draft
allenslions wrote:
Also i asked my friend at dinner why they were so strong on culbreath.and this is a cool little camp story.it seems avril was match up against the kid for a couple indoor practices and was getting completely stoned when gunther finally pulled cliff



I just don't think it's prudent to bet your whole season on a guy that hasn't played much (if at all?) in an actual game, and base your new starting RT off of a camp story from last year. Also, we're betting on Gosider being able to be moved inside as well. I would rather trade Gos altogether. I don't think he's very smart, I think he's over-paid, and I don't think he will ever perform like a first round OLman. If we can get a 3rd to 5th for him I would be very happy.

To me it just makes sense to draft Kontz if he is everything they say his is. If he is of the same elk as Alex Mack then grab him, play him inside where the already KNOWS how to play, and have a smart, better OLman on the team. To draft a project CB/FS/SS/or LB seems silly to me. If we can get a starting caliber DE and we're unable to bring back Avril, ok, but that's the only other option that I see at this point that makes sense for NEXT YEAR.

This team needs to win now. It doesn't need to set itself up to win in 2-3 years. We need to make a run with what we have right now and try to get to the playoffs/Superbowl again while we still have Staff, CJ, Suh and co. We need to give them MORE of a reason to stay here. As of right now, I don't think one playoff game is going to cut it for CJ.


Sly... What would we save if we were able to dump Corey Williams, KVB, and Gos? Anything significant? Also, regarding Nate. I was looking up his contract and he had an $11 million dollar SB, but it isn't reported on a pro-rated basis. If we release him do we get a cap hit, or was there something weird with that uncapped year that allows us to walk away from him and save 100% of his next year's salary from the books?


February 14th, 2012, 5:27 pm
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