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 A question for all u konz guys 
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Post Re: A question for all u konz guys
Banls decided to return for his sr year.smart move for him as he should be one of the top corners


February 17th, 2012, 7:38 pm
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Post Re: A question for all u konz guys
I think if we went Konz, I'd like to see us move up to grab one of the top remaining corners or stay put and take the best available DE or OT. This year I haven't paid much attention at all to all the draft stuff yet since we were actually in the playoffs so I need to get up to date on who would be available. Earlier I got kinda reamed out for saying we should pick a RB in round 3 and now everyone wants one in the second round..... just saying :wink:


February 17th, 2012, 9:59 pm
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Post Re: A question for all u konz guys
inheritedlionsfan wrote:
I think if we went Konz, I'd like to see us move up to grab one of the top remaining corners or stay put and take the best available DE or OT. This year I haven't paid much attention at all to all the draft stuff yet since we were actually in the playoffs so I need to get up to date on who would be available. Earlier I got kinda reamed out for saying we should pick a RB in round 3 and now everyone wants one in the second round..... just saying :wink:



Im sure I was a reamer, ill admit it. Id LOVE it if they did in the 3rd, only because I dont want them to in the 1st or 2nd.

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February 17th, 2012, 10:31 pm
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Post Re: A question for all u konz guys
m2karateman wrote:
CMWSR wrote:
For me it would be simple............You would draft the best pick available. That has been Mayhew's draft philosophy so far and it has worked. If it works don't fix it.


Even Mayhew said that the picks have to be sensible, and not just a pure BPA approach. Teams have to take some sort of measured approach in the draft based upon what they have, talent wise, at what positions. The best teams round out their rosters in free agency and let the draft come to them. But the Lions are against the cap this season and can't spend freely. Therefore, depending on what's done in free agency, the Lions may have to alter their board based on some needs. It doesn't mean they have to reach. I would hope Mayhew can somehow position the Lions so that when they pick, they'll take a solid player with a talent upgrade at a spot of value. Whether that means moving up or down will depend on the way the picks fall before the Lions are on the clock.

Let's look at some scenarios:

Jeff Backus is not re-signed, and no OT is signed in FA
What happens in this situation? The Lions simply can't hand over the starting job to Jason Fox, as his injury history makes him unreliable. John Culbreath is waiting in the wings, but is he good enough? Hilliard is barely serviceable as a LT. I would hope the Lions management makes every effort to position themselves higher in the draft to get a blindside protector, as this situation would immediately that position the top priority in the draft.

Cliff Avril is not re-signed, and no DE is signed in FA
Willie Young and LoJack are still on the roster, but neither is an apt replacement. Young is a pure pass rusher with little ability to stop the run. LoJack is better suited to spell KVB on the right side. Andre Fluellen is pure garbage. The Lions have said they want to rely on the pressure from the front four to minimize their need to blitz. I think DE becomes a top priority in this situation.

Jahvid Best and Mikel LeShoure are no longer able to play, Kevin Smith and Mo Morris leave in FA
Best could very well have to hang up his cleats. LeShoure will probably play, but won't be the same. Now the Lions are once again looking for a full time back who can catch, block and run. Suddenly this position, after using two high picks in the two previous drafts, must be addressed again. Even if Kevin Smith is signed anew (I think Morris will leave) the team can't rely on him to stay healty. The offensive line has hopefully gotten a bit of a boost in FA by this time. If not, I would prefer the o-line get addressed ahead of the RB spot. But as much as talent on the offensive line makes a RB look good, so too does a talented RB make a OL look good.

Tulloch decides to leave the Lions for a different team
Now what do they do? Put Levy back in the middle? I hope not. Strengthening the middle of the defense is paramount to stopping the opposing offenses. That's why I consider safety a bigger need than CB for this team right now. Spievey is the weak link in the secondary, not Wright. But even though Tulloch didn't meet expectation for the Lions this past year, he was certainly better than Levy in the middle. Do the Lions address the position in middle rounds, or do they use their first round pick on a player like Burfict or Hightower? Is Burfict too much of a risk, or is Hightower too overrated based on his Championship game play? Things to consider....



The Lions will resign Backus.

Disagree, about Young and Lojack, think they could fill nicely. Your description of Young as, " pure pass rusher with little ability to stop the run." Prior to this past season the same could be said of Avril.

Agree with you about the O-line. This will be Mayhews 4th draft, and he hasn't seriously addressed this unit yet. I don't consider Fox and Culbreath as being serious.

Agree about being strong up the middle, and would like to see them draft a real mike backer for the future, as well as a SS. Linebackers always seem to fall on draft day, hope so. Maybe we get lucky again and Kuechly is on the board. Think a highly instinctive and intelligent MLB would be hard to pass on.


February 17th, 2012, 10:59 pm
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Post Re: A question for all u konz guys
liontrax wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
CMWSR wrote:
For me it would be simple............You would draft the best pick available. That has been Mayhew's draft philosophy so far and it has worked. If it works don't fix it.


Even Mayhew said that the picks have to be sensible, and not just a pure BPA approach. Teams have to take some sort of measured approach in the draft based upon what they have, talent wise, at what positions. The best teams round out their rosters in free agency and let the draft come to them. But the Lions are against the cap this season and can't spend freely. Therefore, depending on what's done in free agency, the Lions may have to alter their board based on some needs. It doesn't mean they have to reach. I would hope Mayhew can somehow position the Lions so that when they pick, they'll take a solid player with a talent upgrade at a spot of value. Whether that means moving up or down will depend on the way the picks fall before the Lions are on the clock.

Let's look at some scenarios:

Jeff Backus is not re-signed, and no OT is signed in FA
What happens in this situation? The Lions simply can't hand over the starting job to Jason Fox, as his injury history makes him unreliable. John Culbreath is waiting in the wings, but is he good enough? Hilliard is barely serviceable as a LT. I would hope the Lions management makes every effort to position themselves higher in the draft to get a blindside protector, as this situation would immediately that position the top priority in the draft.

Cliff Avril is not re-signed, and no DE is signed in FA
Willie Young and LoJack are still on the roster, but neither is an apt replacement. Young is a pure pass rusher with little ability to stop the run. LoJack is better suited to spell KVB on the right side. Andre Fluellen is pure garbage. The Lions have said they want to rely on the pressure from the front four to minimize their need to blitz. I think DE becomes a top priority in this situation.

Jahvid Best and Mikel LeShoure are no longer able to play, Kevin Smith and Mo Morris leave in FA
Best could very well have to hang up his cleats. LeShoure will probably play, but won't be the same. Now the Lions are once again looking for a full time back who can catch, block and run. Suddenly this position, after using two high picks in the two previous drafts, must be addressed again. Even if Kevin Smith is signed anew (I think Morris will leave) the team can't rely on him to stay healty. The offensive line has hopefully gotten a bit of a boost in FA by this time. If not, I would prefer the o-line get addressed ahead of the RB spot. But as much as talent on the offensive line makes a RB look good, so too does a talented RB make a OL look good.

Tulloch decides to leave the Lions for a different team
Now what do they do? Put Levy back in the middle? I hope not. Strengthening the middle of the defense is paramount to stopping the opposing offenses. That's why I consider safety a bigger need than CB for this team right now. Spievey is the weak link in the secondary, not Wright. But even though Tulloch didn't meet expectation for the Lions this past year, he was certainly better than Levy in the middle. Do the Lions address the position in middle rounds, or do they use their first round pick on a player like Burfict or Hightower? Is Burfict too much of a risk, or is Hightower too overrated based on his Championship game play? Things to consider....



The Lions will resign Backus.

Disagree, about Young and Lojack, think they could fill nicely. Your description of Young as, " pure pass rusher with little ability to stop the run." Prior to this past season the same could be said of Avril.

Agree with you about the O-line. This will be Mayhews 4th draft, and he hasn't seriously addressed this unit yet. I don't consider Fox and Culbreath as being serious.

Agree about being strong up the middle, and would like to see them draft a real mike backer for the future, as well as a SS. Linebackers always seem to fall on draft day, hope so. Maybe we get lucky again and Kuechly is on the board. Think a highly instinctive and intelligent MLB would be hard to pass on.



I have Kuechly going to Philly at #15 in my mock, and cant see him getting past possibly Bears at 19. Plus, they say hes undersized and I DO NOT want an undersized LB. But, im not the GM.

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February 17th, 2012, 11:06 pm
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Post Re: A question for all u konz guys
kdsberman wrote:
liontrax wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
CMWSR wrote:
For me it would be simple............You would draft the best pick available. That has been Mayhew's draft philosophy so far and it has worked. If it works don't fix it.


Even Mayhew said that the picks have to be sensible, and not just a pure BPA approach. Teams have to take some sort of measured approach in the draft based upon what they have, talent wise, at what positions. The best teams round out their rosters in free agency and let the draft come to them. But the Lions are against the cap this season and can't spend freely. Therefore, depending on what's done in free agency, the Lions may have to alter their board based on some needs. It doesn't mean they have to reach. I would hope Mayhew can somehow position the Lions so that when they pick, they'll take a solid player with a talent upgrade at a spot of value. Whether that means moving up or down will depend on the way the picks fall before the Lions are on the clock.

Let's look at some scenarios:

Jeff Backus is not re-signed, and no OT is signed in FA
What happens in this situation? The Lions simply can't hand over the starting job to Jason Fox, as his injury history makes him unreliable. John Culbreath is waiting in the wings, but is he good enough? Hilliard is barely serviceable as a LT. I would hope the Lions management makes every effort to position themselves higher in the draft to get a blindside protector, as this situation would immediately that position the top priority in the draft.

Cliff Avril is not re-signed, and no DE is signed in FA
Willie Young and LoJack are still on the roster, but neither is an apt replacement. Young is a pure pass rusher with little ability to stop the run. LoJack is better suited to spell KVB on the right side. Andre Fluellen is pure garbage. The Lions have said they want to rely on the pressure from the front four to minimize their need to blitz. I think DE becomes a top priority in this situation.

Jahvid Best and Mikel LeShoure are no longer able to play, Kevin Smith and Mo Morris leave in FA
Best could very well have to hang up his cleats. LeShoure will probably play, but won't be the same. Now the Lions are once again looking for a full time back who can catch, block and run. Suddenly this position, after using two high picks in the two previous drafts, must be addressed again. Even if Kevin Smith is signed anew (I think Morris will leave) the team can't rely on him to stay healty. The offensive line has hopefully gotten a bit of a boost in FA by this time. If not, I would prefer the o-line get addressed ahead of the RB spot. But as much as talent on the offensive line makes a RB look good, so too does a talented RB make a OL look good.

Tulloch decides to leave the Lions for a different team
Now what do they do? Put Levy back in the middle? I hope not. Strengthening the middle of the defense is paramount to stopping the opposing offenses. That's why I consider safety a bigger need than CB for this team right now. Spievey is the weak link in the secondary, not Wright. But even though Tulloch didn't meet expectation for the Lions this past year, he was certainly better than Levy in the middle. Do the Lions address the position in middle rounds, or do they use their first round pick on a player like Burfict or Hightower? Is Burfict too much of a risk, or is Hightower too overrated based on his Championship game play? Things to consider....



The Lions will resign Backus.

Disagree, about Young and Lojack, think they could fill nicely. Your description of Young as, " pure pass rusher with little ability to stop the run." Prior to this past season the same could be said of Avril.

Agree with you about the O-line. This will be Mayhews 4th draft, and he hasn't seriously addressed this unit yet. I don't consider Fox and Culbreath as being serious.

Agree about being strong up the middle, and would like to see them draft a real mike backer for the future, as well as a SS. Linebackers always seem to fall on draft day, hope so. Maybe we get lucky again and Kuechly is on the board. Think a highly instinctive and intelligent MLB would be hard to pass on.



I have Kuechly going to Philly at #15 in my mock, and cant see him getting past possibly Bears at 19. Plus, they say hes undersized and I DO NOT want an undersized LB. But, im not the GM.



I've seen him listed at 6-1 to 6-3 and 237. Compared to Tulloch, 5-11 240, I'd call that an upgrade.


February 18th, 2012, 8:55 am
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Post Re: A question for all u konz guys
kdsberman wrote:
liontrax wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
CMWSR wrote:
For me it would be simple............You would draft the best pick available. That has been Mayhew's draft philosophy so far and it has worked. If it works don't fix it.


Even Mayhew said that the picks have to be sensible, and not just a pure BPA approach. Teams have to take some sort of measured approach in the draft based upon what they have, talent wise, at what positions. The best teams round out their rosters in free agency and let the draft come to them. But the Lions are against the cap this season and can't spend freely. Therefore, depending on what's done in free agency, the Lions may have to alter their board based on some needs. It doesn't mean they have to reach. I would hope Mayhew can somehow position the Lions so that when they pick, they'll take a solid player with a talent upgrade at a spot of value. Whether that means moving up or down will depend on the way the picks fall before the Lions are on the clock.

Let's look at some scenarios:

Jeff Backus is not re-signed, and no OT is signed in FA
What happens in this situation? The Lions simply can't hand over the starting job to Jason Fox, as his injury history makes him unreliable. John Culbreath is waiting in the wings, but is he good enough? Hilliard is barely serviceable as a LT. I would hope the Lions management makes every effort to position themselves higher in the draft to get a blindside protector, as this situation would immediately that position the top priority in the draft.

Cliff Avril is not re-signed, and no DE is signed in FA
Willie Young and LoJack are still on the roster, but neither is an apt replacement. Young is a pure pass rusher with little ability to stop the run. LoJack is better suited to spell KVB on the right side. Andre Fluellen is pure garbage. The Lions have said they want to rely on the pressure from the front four to minimize their need to blitz. I think DE becomes a top priority in this situation.

Jahvid Best and Mikel LeShoure are no longer able to play, Kevin Smith and Mo Morris leave in FA
Best could very well have to hang up his cleats. LeShoure will probably play, but won't be the same. Now the Lions are once again looking for a full time back who can catch, block and run. Suddenly this position, after using two high picks in the two previous drafts, must be addressed again. Even if Kevin Smith is signed anew (I think Morris will leave) the team can't rely on him to stay healty. The offensive line has hopefully gotten a bit of a boost in FA by this time. If not, I would prefer the o-line get addressed ahead of the RB spot. But as much as talent on the offensive line makes a RB look good, so too does a talented RB make a OL look good.

Tulloch decides to leave the Lions for a different team
Now what do they do? Put Levy back in the middle? I hope not. Strengthening the middle of the defense is paramount to stopping the opposing offenses. That's why I consider safety a bigger need than CB for this team right now. Spievey is the weak link in the secondary, not Wright. But even though Tulloch didn't meet expectation for the Lions this past year, he was certainly better than Levy in the middle. Do the Lions address the position in middle rounds, or do they use their first round pick on a player like Burfict or Hightower? Is Burfict too much of a risk, or is Hightower too overrated based on his Championship game play? Things to consider....



The Lions will resign Backus.

Disagree, about Young and Lojack, think they could fill nicely. Your description of Young as, " pure pass rusher with little ability to stop the run." Prior to this past season the same could be said of Avril.

Agree with you about the O-line. This will be Mayhews 4th draft, and he hasn't seriously addressed this unit yet. I don't consider Fox and Culbreath as being serious.

Agree about being strong up the middle, and would like to see them draft a real mike backer for the future, as well as a SS. Linebackers always seem to fall on draft day, hope so. Maybe we get lucky again and Kuechly is on the board. Think a highly instinctive and intelligent MLB would be hard to pass on.



I have Kuechly going to Philly at #15 in my mock, and cant see him getting past possibly Bears at 19. Plus, they say hes undersized and I DO NOT want an undersized LB. But, im not the GM.


So, you would have passed on Spielman? :shock: :shock: :shock:


February 18th, 2012, 10:17 am
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Post Re: A question for all u konz guys
Spielman was like 6 foot 247 or so.

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February 18th, 2012, 12:26 pm
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Post Re: A question for all u konz guys
Kuechly is not an upgrade from Stephen Tulloch

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February 18th, 2012, 5:26 pm
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Post Re: A question for all u konz guys
Killwill25 wrote:
Kuechly is not an upgrade from Stephen Tulloch



Exactly. A rookie vs a proven and solid veteran MLB?

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April 22nd, 2010 @ 7:44p.m. "The Detroit Lions select...Ndamukong Suh". Those are some beautiful words.


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February 18th, 2012, 5:47 pm
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Post Re: A question for all u konz guys
kdsberman wrote:
Killwill25 wrote:
Kuechly is not an upgrade from Stephen Tulloch



Exactly. A rookie vs a proven and solid veteran MLB?



The upgrade I was referring to was in size. kds said he was undersized. In all fairness, I wouldn't expect him to be an upgrade to Tulloch ability wise, immediately. But he could be cheaper, and possibly much better after a few years of seasoning.


February 18th, 2012, 9:41 pm
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Post Re: A question for all u konz guys
kdsberman wrote:
Spielman was like 6 foot 247 or so.


And the knock on him that allowed him to fall to the Lions on draft day was he was undersized.


February 18th, 2012, 10:25 pm
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Post Re: A question for all u konz guys
liontrax wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
Killwill25 wrote:
Kuechly is not an upgrade from Stephen Tulloch



Exactly. A rookie vs a proven and solid veteran MLB?



The upgrade I was referring to was in size. kds said he was undersized. In all fairness, I wouldn't expect him to be an upgrade to Tulloch ability wise, immediately. But he could be cheaper, and possibly much better after a few years of seasoning.

I'm no scout, but "they" say he's undersized. I'd be ok with him just not at MLB.

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February 19th, 2012, 12:42 am
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Post Re: A question for all u konz guys
I'm sorry, but I don't buy into the whole "undersized" thing with a linebacker or DE. I can understand if the guy is too thin, doesn't have the muscle for it. That I buy. But from a pure height standpoint, no way. Dwight Freeney was said to be too short. Ray Lewis was considered undersized to play MLB. So was Jonathan Vilma. Chris Spielman. Sam Mills was only 5'9" tall and a damn good linebacker in his day, and most LBs back then averaged around six foot.

If Luke Kuechly is near six foot tall, what's the issue? The only concern would be him dropping back into coverage, where you want someone tall to be able to provide some difficulty for a QB to complete the pass just beyond the MLBs reach, yet in front of the safeties in the deep crossing or hook zones. But if the guy can jump like 28-30 inches, then who cares?

Just some food for thought....

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February 20th, 2012, 12:42 pm
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Post Re: A question for all u konz guys
In response to allenslions original post in this thread:

Given: resigings of avril, tulloch, wright and draft of konz rd 1

Rd 2 - Stephen Gilmore, CB, South Carolina
Rd 3 - Keenan Robinson, OLB, Texas
Rd 4 - Juron Criner, WR, Arizona
Rd 5 - Robert Turbin, RB, Utah State
Rd 6 - Keshawn Martin WR/PR, Michigan State
Rd 7 - Drew Butler, P, Georgia

Id project Konz to play at G right away and he should be at least as good as Peterman overall. Gilmore projects as competition to start at CB but is a good future pick who probably would start out being the 4th corner and should be ready to step in and start if someone were to get hurt or if Wright falls into a slump as he did this season. Robinson isnt quite the athlete of Zach Brown but is a more alert and instinctive player. Id like to see him develop some pass rush skills but he should have range vs the run and be able to cover. Might have a chance to become that Julian Peterson prototype (capable of rushing the passer, dropping into coverage and be decent vs the run) that I think Jim Schwartz desires in time. Criner is a big fluid receiver and Im not really sure why he seems to project into the middle rounds. Not sure how much top end speed or if he can make circus catches but he runs good routes and has reliable hands. Turbin is a tough inside runner who has missed some time w an ACL injury but in my opinion thats not a career ender for a RB anymore and he s played since the injury and surgery. Again I dont know how fast he is but I like his vision and power in short yardage - at minimum he s an upgrade over Keiland Williams. He could take most of the beating away from Best if needed but it would probably still be a good idea to bring in a veteran runner depending on leshoure's recovery. I dont like or know too much about the late lineman or safeties that might be available so I go with Martin who could become a valuable punt returner/kick returner in place of Logan who had a rough season. Martin could contribute on the offense in time as well. Butler seems to be the top rated Punter available so he might not be there in rd 7 but the lions got an awful performance from Donohue and Malone early on and though Graham did a decent job he is 38 yrs old and wasnt very good in prior NFL stops.


February 22nd, 2012, 1:38 am
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