View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently July 30th, 2014, 3:23 am



Reply to topic  [ 65 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 What is so special about Israel? 
Author Message
Modmin Dude
User avatar

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 am
Posts: 11944
Post Re: What is so special about Israel?
wjb21ndtown wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
last I checked Isreal is still a top 10 military power
You do realize WHY Israel is a "Top 10 military power," right? Thanks in large part to our tax dollars. IMO its time we get some ROI.


IMO we're getting it right now, while they're putting REAL pressure on Iran and Obama is sitting on his thumbs.
Perhaps this is a topic for another thread, but where is the disdain for Iran coming from? Yes, I remember the hostage taking however couldn't that be considered a response / retaliation for the US overthrowing their democratically elected regime? (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Irani ... 7%C3%A9tat)



How about their desire to refine weapons grade nuclear material? That's good enough for me.
Proof? and I'm referring to actual, factual and verified proof; not rhetoric. That said, think about this for a moment...

If Nation A is constantly being derided, threatened, etc by Nations B, C & D doesn't it make sense for Nation A to try to defend itself?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not claiming to be a Middle East expert by any means. I've been hearing to same rhetoric for 30+ years, but that doesn't make it a fact, it just makes it consistent. There are always 3 sides to every story (Side A, Side B and the truth - which usually lies somewhere in the middle of Sides A & B). And, for myself, I'd like to try to find out what the actual truth is, not what someone thinks it is.

My personal view / opinion on weapons grade Nuclear power is: All or nothing. In other words, all countries have it or none do; otherwise we're in our current environment where the ones that do have it act like bullies and those that don't feel as though that have to get it to feel 'safe'.

_________________
Quote:
Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....


February 20th, 2012, 4:20 pm
Profile
Post Re: What is so special about Israel?
BS, I don't think radical regimes need Nuke power.

Wags, these people are suicidal in the name of their creator. They don't care about "return fire."

Unfortunately for you, you're not going to get your "proof" until it's too late. Iran isn't going to announce that they're doing it, and they're not going to announce that they've done it. We'll find out when they actually use the damn thing.


February 20th, 2012, 4:24 pm
Modmin Dude
User avatar

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 am
Posts: 11944
Post Re: What is so special about Israel?
wjb21ndtown wrote:
BS, I don't think radical regimes need Nuke power.

Wags, these people are suicidal in the name of their creator. They don't care about "return fire."

Unfortunately for you, you're not going to get your "proof" until it's too late. Iran isn't going to announce that they're doing it, and they're not going to announce that they've done it. We'll find out when they actually use the damn thing.
Do you realize that inspectors are in Iran to discuss this very topic?
Quote:
In letter to world powers, Iran says it’s ready to resume talks over its nuclear program
By Associated Press, Published: February 15

WASHINGTON — Iran has told world powers it is ready to resume talks as soon as possible over its disputed nuclear program, according to a letter obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, an offer that could reflect its difficulty in coping with tough U.S. and European sanctions, or amount to another delaying tactic as it moves ahead with activities that could bring it closer to developing an atomic bomb.

The letter from chief Iranian nuclear negotiator Saeed Jalili was sent Tuesday, just a day before Iran claimed two major advances in producing nuclear fuel and indicated it was on the verge of imposing an oil embargo on European countries to retaliate for sanctions. The Obama administration dismissed the announcements as unimpressive and said Tehran’s erratic behavior was indicative of the squeeze it is feeling as a result of hard-hitting economic measures against it.

“We voice our readiness for dialogue on a spectrum of various issues which can provide ground for constructive and forward looking cooperation,” Jalili wrote in the letter to EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton, the point of contact for the five permanent members of the U.N. Security Council and Germany, who are demanding that Iran freeze all uranium enrichment.

Ashton had written Jalili in October, offering Iran a new round of talks toward an agreement that “restores international confidence in the exclusively peaceful nature of Iran’s nuclear program.” The West fears Iran seeks nuclear weapons, and speculation is rife that Israel may launch a pre-emptive strike to set back the program.

Jalili welcomed Ashton’s statement of respect for Iran’s right to peaceful nuclear energy use and said that “by committing to this approach, our talks for cooperation based on step-by-step principles and reciprocity on Iran’s nuclear issue could be commenced,” according to a translated copy of the letter.

A “constructive and positive attitude towards Islamic Republic of Iran’s new initiatives in this round of talks could open (a) positive perspective for our negotiation,” Jalili wrote. “Therefore, within this context, I propose to resume our talks in order to take fundamental steps for sustainable cooperation in the earliest possibility, in a mutually agreed venue and time.”

But Jalili’s four-paragraph, one-page letter offered no concessions. EU and U.S. officials declined to comment Wednesday, saying they were still studying the letter.

In Iran, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad oversaw the insertion of the first Iranian domestically made fuel rod into a research reactor in northern Tehran. Separately, the semiofficial Fars agency reported that a “new generation of Iranian centrifuges” had started operation at the country’s main uranium enrichment facility at Natanz in central Iran.

White House press secretary Jay Carney called these “provocative acts, defiant acts, statements that are designed to distract attention from the demonstrated impact that the sanctions are having, the demonstrated impact that the isolation of Iran is having.”

“We are very confident that the sanctions have put enormous pressure on the Iranian economy and on the Iranian regime,” he told reporters. “It is not unusual for Iran to try to distract attention from those uncomfortable facts and from its overall isolation by some burst of rhetoric or making some announcement.”

State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said the Iranian uranium enrichment milestone is “not terribly new, and it’s not terribly impressive.”

“The Iranians have for many months been putting out calendars of accomplishments, and based on their own calendars, they are many, many months behind,” she said.

Asked about Jalili’s letter to Ashton, Nuland said the U.S. was speaking with its partners about it. Hinting at the contents of the Iranian response, however, she said: “It may be that they felt the need to bluster on their nuclear side even as they make clear that they do want to come back to the table for talks.”

Israeli Deputy Prime Minister Silvan Shalom, speaking to reporters after an address to the Ohio Legislature on Wednesday, said the Iranian activity signaled the need for harsher sanctions on the Tehran regime.

“The world should realize if they won’t stop them immediately, finally it might be too late. ... The time has come to impose more sanctions on Iran, tougher sanctions on Iran that might bring them to change their attitude. Until then, Iranians will continue,” he said.

___

Associated Press writer Ann Sanner contributed to this report.

Copyright 2012 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Quote:
UN nuke inspectors arrive for key talks in Iran

Published February 20, 2012

| Associated Press

TEHRAN, Iran – U.N. nuclear inspectors starting a two-day visit to Tehran on Monday sought to meet Iranian nuclear scientists and visit a key military facility as they try to gauge allegations that Iran is pushing toward making an atomic weapon.

The trip is the second in less than a month by the International Atomic Energy Agency team, reflecting growing concerns over alleged weapons experiments -- something Iran has so far both denied and refused to discuss.

Herman Nackaerts, a senior U.N. nuclear official, said in Vienna before the team departed on Sunday that he hoped for progress in the talks but his careful choice of words suggested little expectation the meeting will be successful.

The trip came as Iran announced air defense wargames to practice protecting nuclear and other sensitive sites, the latest in a series of military maneuvers viewed as a message to the West that Iran is prepared both to defend itself against an armed strike and to retaliate.

The U.S. and Israel have not ruled out military action against Iran's nuclear program, which they say is geared toward making weapons. Iran denies the charges and insists the program is for peaceful purposes only, such as power generation.

Iran's state radio said Monday the IAEA inspectors hope to meet Iranian nuclear scientists and visit the Parchin military complex. The report said the IAEA had requested to visit Parchin, an Iranian military base and conventional weapons development facility outside of Tehran. The site has also been suspected of housing a secret underground facility used for Iran's nuclear program, a claim denied by Iranian authorities.

IAEA inspectors visited the site in 2005, but went to only one of four areas of potential interest within the grounds. At the time, the nuclear watchdog did not report any unusual activities but the Parchin site was prominently mentioned in the agency's report last year.

The report asserted that Iran constructed "a large explosives containment vessel" in which to conduct experiments on triggering a nuclear explosion, apparently 11 years ago, adding that it had satellite images "consistent with this information."

"Whatever the reasoning of the agency is, it proves the IAEA is not loyal to its previous commitments," the Iranian radio said. The tone of the commentary suggested the visit to the military complex would likely be denied.

The IAEA visit comes as Iran last week announced what it described as key advancements in its nuclear program, inserting the first domestically made fuel rod into a research reactor in Tehran and installing a new generation of Iranian-made centrifuges at the country's main uranium enrichment facility in the central town of Natanz.

Beyond concerns about the purported weapons work, Washington and its allies want Iran to halt uranium enrichment, which they believe could eventually lead to weapons-grade material and the production of nuclear weapons. Iran has been enriching uranium up to 20 percent, while uranium enriched to more than 90 percent can be used for a nuclear warhead.

The IAEA team wants to talk to key Iranian scientists suspected of working on an alleged weapons program. They also hope to break down opposition to their plans to inspect documents related to nuclear work and secure commitments from Iranian authorities to allow future visits.

The IAEA summarized its information last November in a 13-page document drawing on 1,000 pages of intelligence. It stated then for the first time that some of the alleged experiments can have no other purpose than developing nuclear weapons.

Iran has denied alleged weapons experiments for nearly four years, saying they are based on "fabricated documents" provided by a "few arrogant countries" -- a phrase authorities in Iran often use to refer to the U.S. and its allies.

Also Monday, Iran's official news agency reported that the military had begun a four-day air defense war game dubbed "Sarollah," or "God's Revenge," in the south of the country.

Anti-aircraft batteries, radar, and warplanes will be involved in the maneuvers aimed at increasing coordination between the regular military and the powerful Revolutionary Guard in defending sensitive facilities including nuclear sites, IRNA reported.

The exercises will be held over 73,000 square miles near the port of Bushehr, the site of Iran's lone nuclear power plant.

Iran has held multiple air, land, and sea maneuvers in recent months as the tensions increase.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/02/20 ... z1mxKLKs70


Now, you can choose whether or not to believe their sincerity, but this is a step in the right direction IMO.

_________________
Quote:
Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....


February 20th, 2012, 4:31 pm
Profile
Post Re: What is so special about Israel?
Quote:
Iran's state radio said Monday the IAEA inspectors hope to meet Iranian nuclear scientists and visit the Parchin military complex. The report said the IAEA had requested to visit Parchin, an Iranian military base and conventional weapons development facility outside of Tehran. The site has also been suspected of housing a secret underground facility used for Iran's nuclear program, a claim denied by Iranian authorities.

IAEA inspectors visited the site in 2005, but went to only one of four areas of potential interest within the grounds. At the time, the nuclear watchdog did not report any unusual activities but the Parchin site was prominently mentioned in the agency's report last year.

The report asserted that Iran constructed "a large explosives containment vessel" in which to conduct experiments on triggering a nuclear explosion, apparently 11 years ago, adding that it had satellite images "consistent with this information."

"Whatever the reasoning of the agency is, it proves the IAEA is not loyal to its previous commitments," the Iranian radio said. The tone of the commentary suggested the visit to the military complex would likely be denied.


Quote:
The IAEA summarized its information last November in a 13-page document drawing on 1,000 pages of intelligence. It stated then for the first time that some of the alleged experiments can have no other purpose than developing nuclear weapons.


That's enough for me.


February 20th, 2012, 4:41 pm
Modmin Dude
User avatar

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 am
Posts: 11944
Post Re: What is so special about Israel?
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Quote:
Iran's state radio said Monday the IAEA inspectors hope to meet Iranian nuclear scientists and visit the Parchin military complex. The report said the IAEA had requested to visit Parchin, an Iranian military base and conventional weapons development facility outside of Tehran. The site has also been suspected of housing a secret underground facility used for Iran's nuclear program, a claim denied by Iranian authorities.

IAEA inspectors visited the site in 2005, but went to only one of four areas of potential interest within the grounds. At the time, the nuclear watchdog did not report any unusual activities but the Parchin site was prominently mentioned in the agency's report last year.

The report asserted that Iran constructed "a large explosives containment vessel" in which to conduct experiments on triggering a nuclear explosion, apparently 11 years ago, adding that it had satellite images "consistent with this information."

"Whatever the reasoning of the agency is, it proves the IAEA is not loyal to its previous commitments," the Iranian radio said. The tone of the commentary suggested the visit to the military complex would likely be denied.


Quote:
The IAEA summarized its information last November in a 13-page document drawing on 1,000 pages of intelligence. It stated then for the first time that some of the alleged experiments can have no other purpose than developing nuclear weapons.


That's enough for me.
No proof required, eh? That's rather surprising for a lawyer, IMO.

_________________
Quote:
Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....


February 20th, 2012, 4:54 pm
Profile
Player of the Year - Defense

Joined: September 25th, 2007, 3:20 am
Posts: 2741
Post Re: What is so special about Israel?
You've heard the same thing for 30 years, because for 30 years, Iran has been at war with everyone. Since the overthrow of the government by the Islamic priests, they've had one goal -- the destruction of Israel and anyone that supports them.

They've supplied missiles in Lebanon that were fired into Israel. They've funded Hamas and the PLO that has been sending over suicide bombers into Israel. They're sending troops to Venezuela for who knows what purpose, except that they have easy access to our southern border. They've been sending troops into Syria to help with the current unrest there. They sent troops into Iraq to kill American troops.

And you think they want to obtain nuclear energy for medicinal purposes? L to the O to the L.

I know we're supposed to live in a time of tolerance, but you need to start studying up on Islam. There is never peace, only cease fire until they have an advantage. Iran has one goal and that is to bring about the 12th imam and total domination of Islam. They aren't upset that we're over there, they're upset that we exist period. They wouldn't leave us alone. Just look at the killings of Christians in that region that has become more rampant, yet the coverage has been lax. They know that there's an anti-christian tone in the air and they can get away with it. Egypt, Yemen, Nigeria, everywhere. And you might say "Oh i'm an atheist" but that doesn't matter. They consider us a christian nation and atheism is worse to them than christianity. If you don't convert to Islam, you must die. Period.

Trust me, the time will come when even the U.S. will turn its back on Israel. And things won't get any better. For us or them.


February 20th, 2012, 5:02 pm
Profile
Post Re: What is so special about Israel?
TheRealWags wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Quote:
Iran's state radio said Monday the IAEA inspectors hope to meet Iranian nuclear scientists and visit the Parchin military complex. The report said the IAEA had requested to visit Parchin, an Iranian military base and conventional weapons development facility outside of Tehran. The site has also been suspected of housing a secret underground facility used for Iran's nuclear program, a claim denied by Iranian authorities.

IAEA inspectors visited the site in 2005, but went to only one of four areas of potential interest within the grounds. At the time, the nuclear watchdog did not report any unusual activities but the Parchin site was prominently mentioned in the agency's report last year.

The report asserted that Iran constructed "a large explosives containment vessel" in which to conduct experiments on triggering a nuclear explosion, apparently 11 years ago, adding that it had satellite images "consistent with this information."

"Whatever the reasoning of the agency is, it proves the IAEA is not loyal to its previous commitments," the Iranian radio said. The tone of the commentary suggested the visit to the military complex would likely be denied.


Quote:
The IAEA summarized its information last November in a 13-page document drawing on 1,000 pages of intelligence. It stated then for the first time that some of the alleged experiments can have no other purpose than developing nuclear weapons.


That's enough for me.
No proof required, eh? That's rather surprising for a lawyer, IMO.



They have "secret bunkers" that we haven't been allowed into, and have ran experiments that have "no other purpose than developing nuclear weapons." That IS proof. Call it circumstantial if you want (I would call it direct proof that they're at least trying), but yes, that is enough for me.


February 20th, 2012, 5:22 pm
Commissioner of the NFL – Roger Goodell
User avatar

Joined: August 7th, 2004, 4:47 am
Posts: 10943
Location: Sterling Heights, MI
Post Re: What is so special about Israel?
Before Barack Obama, America was a country that used to stand with and support her friends and allies. Unfortunately, that no longer appears to be the case. Now, America insults and turns her back on her friends, while apologizing to and making concessions toward her enemies. It truly is disgusting.

As for whether Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons or not, I've got a question for those that don't think they are. If you were enriching uranium for peaceful purposes only, would you build the facility hundreds of meters under a mountain at great cost and expense? I didn't think so. Wake up people before it's too late.

And as for Israel being the bad guy in the Middle East, I don't hear the Rabbis preaching in the synagogues to kill the infidels or anything of the sort. On the other hand, I could have a field day if I ever started a Religion of Peace thread. Just saying.

_________________
Image


February 21st, 2012, 4:47 pm
Profile
Modmin Dude
User avatar

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 am
Posts: 11944
Post Re: What is so special about Israel?
slybri19 wrote:
Now, America insults and turns her back on her friends, while apologizing to and making concessions toward her enemies. It truly is disgusting.
Is this what you're referring to? (BTW-For someone that seems to despise Romney, you certainly echo his talking points)
Politifact wrote:
Mitt Romney repeats claim that Obama went around the world apologizing for the United States
In a debate in Orlando on Sept. 22, 2011, Mitt Romney charged that President Obama has gone around the world apologizing for America.

President Obama "went around the world and apologized for America," Romney said, in response to a question about Israel and the Middle East.

Romney, the former governor of Massachusetts, has made this charge several times. The first time we checked it was when he made the charge is his own book, No Apology: The Case for American Greatness.

Here’s the claim from Romney’s book that we checked back then:

"Never before in American history has its president gone before so many foreign audiences to apologize for so many American misdeeds, both real and imagined," Romney wrote. "It is his way of signaling to foreign countries and foreign leaders that their dislike for America is something he understands and that is, at least in part, understandable. There are anti-American fires burning all across the globe; President Obama's words are like kindling to them."

In the book, Romney specifically named the speeches he was referring to:

"In his first nine months in office, President Obama has issued apologies and criticisms of America in speeches in France, England, Turkey, and Cairo; at the CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia, the National Archives in Washington, D.C., and the United Nations in New York City. He has apologized for what he deems to be American arrogance, dismissiveness and derision; for dictating solutions, for acting unilaterally, and for acting without regard for others; for treating other countries as mere proxies, for unjustly interfering in the internal affairs of other nations and for feeding anti-Muslim sentiments; for committing torture, for dragging our feet on global warming and for selectively promoting democracy."

At the time, we rated the claim False.

Romney made a similar claim in June 2011 during a campaign appearance when he said, "A few months into office, (President Barack Obama) traveled around the globe to apologize for America." We rated that one Pants on Fire, because he implied the trips were intended to offer the president a forum to apologize to other countries. That was hardly the case.

Let’s recap our specific findings.

What Obama said

For starters, as we looked over Obama's remarks, we noticed that he never used the word that is the universal hallmark of apologies: "sorry." Merriam-Webster defines an apology as "an admission of error or discourtesy accompanied by an expression of regret."

We read the seven Obama speeches cited in Romney’s book and selected the passages that seemed the most critical, apologetic or conciliatory, and then ran them by several experts with different points of view. Because of their length, we've compiled those passages into a separate document with links to the full remarks, and we encourage you to click over and read those remarks now.

At times, Obama uses an on-the-one-hand, on-the-other-hand formulation that he tends to employ right before he asks the two sides to come together.

At a town hall meeting in France, for example, Obama encouraged Europe to work with the United States, and admitted that the United States "has shown arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive." But he immediately said that Europe has been guilty of a "casual" and "insidious" anti-Americanism. "On both sides of the Atlantic, these attitudes have become all too common. They are not wise. They do not represent the truth. They threaten to widen the divide across the Atlantic and leave us both more isolated," Obama concluded. And at a major address to the United Nations, Obama said, "I took office at a time when many around the world had come to view America with skepticism and distrust. Part of this was due to misperceptions and misinformation about my country. Part of this was due to opposition to specific policies and a belief that on certain critical issues, America has acted unilaterally, without regard for the interests of others. And this has fed an almost reflexive anti-Americanism, which too often has served as an excuse for collective inaction."

At other times, Obama doesn't seem so much to be criticizing the United States as he is criticizing the foreign policy stances of the Bush administration. In England, a reporter said that during the 2008 campaign, Obama had said that the power and authority of the United States had diminished in recent years. Obama was quick to turn the question toward the Bush team. "Well, first of all, during the campaign I did not say that some of that loss of authority was inevitable," Obama said. "I said it was traced to very specific decisions that the previous administration had made that I believed had lowered our standing in the world.... I would like to think that with my election and the early decisions that we've made, that you're starting to see some restoration of America's standing in the world."

At a speech in Cairo on relations between the United States and the Islamic world, Obama got very close to regretting decades-old U.S. actions in Iran. But then he immediately countered with criticism of Iran. He did not make a formal expression of regret, but suggested both countries simply "move forward." Here are his exact remarks: "In the middle of the Cold War, the United States played a role in the overthrow of a democratically elected Iranian government. Since the Islamic Revolution, Iran has played a role in acts of hostage-taking and violence against U.S. troops and civilians. This history is well known. Rather than remain trapped in the past, I've made it clear to Iran's leaders and people that my country is prepared to move forward."

Looking at all the remarks Romney cited, we noticed that Obama is most conciliatory when discussing torture and detention at the U.S. military installation at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Obama mentioned this in four separate instances that Romney cited in his book. Typically, Obama would say that the United States must always stay true to its ideals, and that's why Obama "unequivocally prohibited the use of torture by the United States, and I have ordered the prison at Guantanamo Bay closed by early next year." (He has not been successful with his order of closing Guantanamo; we’ve rated it a Promise Broken.)

Obama's most pointed remarks on Guantanamo were at the National Archives, in a major speech on fighting terrorism. Obama said that after 9/11, "our government made a series of hasty decisions. I believe that many of these decisions were motivated by a sincere desire to protect the American people. But I also believe that all too often our government made decisions based on fear rather than foresight; that all too often our government trimmed facts and evidence to fit ideological predispositions." He also said that the Guantanamo prison "likely created more terrorists around the world than it ever detained. So the record is clear: Rather than keeping us safer, the prison at Guantanamo has weakened American national security. It is a rallying cry for our enemies."

Did Obama apologize?

Back in 2010, we sent Obama's remarks to several different experts on foreign policy and apologies, to see if they thought Obama was apologizing.

• Nile Gardiner, a foreign policy analyst with the the conservative Heritage Foundation, said Obama is definitely apologizing, and it's not good. He co-wrote the Heritage analysis, "Barack Obama's Top 10 Apologies: How the President Has Humiliated a Superpower."

"Apologizing for your own country projects an image of weakness before both allies and enemies," Gardiner said. "It sends a very clear signal that the U.S. is to blame for some major developments on the world stage. This can be used to the advantage of those who wish to undermine American global leadership."

He noted that Obama tends to be most apologetic about how the United States has fought terrorism and its approach to the Iraq war. "There is a very strong partisan element to his apologies, but the biggest driving factor is Obama's personal belief that the U.S. is not an exceptional, uniquely great nation," he said.

• John Murphy, a communications professor at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, studies presidential rhetoric and political language. He said Obama is using conciliatory language for diplomatic purposes, not apologizing.

"It's much more a sense of establishing of reciprocity," Murphy said. "Each side says, okay, we haven't done great, but we have a new president and we're going to make a fresh start and move forward. I don't think that's an apology. ... In rhetorical history, an apology is generally considered an account of some kind of bad behavior in which you are going to take responsibility and express regret."

Romney's criticisms of Obama are part of a conservative tradition that emphasizes steadfastness in foreign policy, particularly in the wake of the Vietnam War. "There's long been a strain of conservative rhetoric that argues that what matters most for the United States in the world is our will," Murphy said. "The difficulty with that was shown in the second Bush administration, when will power is not quite enough. In Iraq, for example, you have to have a battle plan that makes sense and understand the situation you're going into'' and have enough resources to do that.

• Lauren Bloom, an attorney and business consultant, wrote the book, The Art of the Apology, advising businesses and individuals on when to apologize and how to do it.

She said Obama's words fall short of an apology, mostly because he didn't use the words "sorry" or "regret." "I think to make an effective apology, the words 'I'm sorry' or 'we're sorry' always have to be there," Bloom said.

Obama's remarks are really non-apologies, and they're not good in business or personal relationships, Bloom said. The one area where they can be useful: international diplomacy.

"Gov. Romney is trying to appeal to the inner John Wayne of his readers, and that has a certain emotional appeal," Bloom said. "For the rest of us, a level assessment of less-than-perfect human behavior is perfectly reasonable."

• Rhoda E. Howard-Hassmann, a professor who studies international human rights, maintains the Web site Political Apologies and Reparations, a database of documents on apologies. Many of the apologies in the database relate to genocide or slavery.

"To say the United States will not torture is not an apology, it is a statement of intent," Howard-Hassman said. "A complete apology has to acknowledge something was wrong, accept responsibility, express sorrow or regret and promise not to repeat it."

Obama's Cairo address in particular was a means of reaching out to the Islamic world, not an acknowledgement of wrongdoing, she said.

"Whether he's apologizing or not, he's saying 'I respect your society, and I respect your customs.' Maybe that's what Romney considers an apology, that gesture of respect," she said. "But a gesture of respect is not an apology."

Other presidential apologies

Short of conducting a full review of all American presidents to see if any others had ever apologized, we decided to narrow our focus and look at Obama's two immediate predecessors, George W. Bush and Bill Clinton.

Several sources we reviewed discussed Clinton's remarks about the 1994 genocide in Rwanda, and described them as an apology. But Clinton did not explicitly apologize, and he assigned responsibility to the international community, not just the United States. "The international community, together with nations in Africa, must bear its share of responsibility for this tragedy as well," Clinton said in Rwanda in 1998. "We did not act quickly enough after the killing began. We should not have allowed the refugee camps to become safe haven for the killers. We did not immediately call these crimes by their rightful name: genocide. We cannot change the past. But we can and must do everything in our power to help you build a future without fear, and full of hope."

Clinton did apologize, forcefully, to the survivors and families of the experiments conducted in Tuskegee, Ala., in which government doctors left sick men untreated as part of a research study on syphilis. "The United States government did something that was wrong -- deeply, profoundly, morally wrong," Clinton said at a formal ceremony in 1997. "To the survivors, to the wives and family members, the children and the grandchildren, I say what you know: No power on Earth can give you back the lives lost, the pain suffered, the years of internal torment and anguish. What was done cannot be undone. But we can end the silence. We can stop turning our heads away. We can look at you in the eye and finally say on behalf of the American people, what the United States government did was shameful, and I am sorry."

Bush made remarks in 2002 about American slavery, which some people construed as an apology, at Goree Island, Senegal. But Bush did not formally apologize or express regret, instead opting to praise the Americans in history who worked to end slavery. "My nation's journey toward justice has not been easy, and it is not over," he said. "The racial bigotry fed by slavery did not end with slavery or with segregation. And many of the issues that still trouble America have roots in the bitter experience of other times. But however long the journey, our destination is set: liberty and justice for all."

Bush did, however, specifically apologize to King Abdullah of Jordan for the abuse of prisoners at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq. The 2004 apology took place privately, but Bush and Abdullah spoke soon after at a Rose Garden press conference. "We also talked about what has been on the TV screens recently, not only in our own country, but overseas -- the images of cruelty and humiliation. I told His Majesty as plainly as I could that the wrongdoers will be brought to justice, and that the actions of those folks in Iraq do not represent the values of the United States of America," Bush said. "I told him I was sorry for the humiliation suffered by the Iraqi prisoners, and the humiliation suffered by their families. I told him I was equally sorry that people who have been seeing those pictures didn't understand the true nature and heart of America."

Obama's praise and motivations

While Obama has admitted mistakes, he has also praised America. Romney acknowledged as much when he wrote that Obama, "always the skillful politician, will throw in compliments about America here and there."

In Cairo, Obama called the United States "one of the greatest sources of progress that the world has ever known. ... We were founded upon the ideal that all are created equal, and we have shed blood and struggled for centuries to give meaning to those words -- within our borders, and around the world." At the Langley speech, Obama told the CIA staff, "What makes the United States special, and what makes you special, is precisely the fact that we are willing to uphold our values and our ideals even when it's hard, not just when it's easy; even when we are afraid and under threat, not just when it's expedient to do so. That's what makes us different. So, yes, you've got a harder job. And so do I. And that's okay, because that's why we can take such extraordinary pride in being Americans. And over the long term, that is why I believe we will defeat our enemies, because we're on the better side of history."

And at his speech accepting the Nobel Prize, Obama said: "Whatever mistakes we have made, the plain fact is this: The United States of America has helped underwrite global security for more than six decades with the blood of our citizens and the strength of our arms. The service and sacrifice of our men and women in uniform has promoted peace and prosperity from Germany to Korea, and enabled democracy to take hold in places like the Balkans. We have borne this burden not because we seek to impose our will. We have done so out of enlightened self-interest -- because we seek a better future for our children and grandchildren, and we believe that their lives will be better if others' children and grandchildren can live in freedom and prosperity."

What’s new from the debate

What Romney said at the debate in Orlando -- "He went around the world and apologized for America" -- is very similar to what he said at his campaign stop in June -- "A few months into office, he traveled around the globe to apologize for America."

At the debate, Romney added this comment: "He addressed the United Nations in his inaugural address and chastised our friend, Israel, for building settlements and said nothing about Hamas launching thousands of rockets into Israel."

We looked again at Obama's first speech at the United Nations. It's true that he does not specifically mention Hamas. But it's certainly not a one-sided chastisement of Israel. Obama repeatedly calls on Palestinians to understand and respect Israel's security needs. And he specifically mentions the fear Israeli civilians have of rocket attacks.

"We must remember that the greatest price of this conflict is not paid by us. It's not paid by politicians," Obama said. "It's paid by the Israeli girl in Sderot who closes her eyes in fear that a rocket will take her life in the middle of the night. It's paid for by the Palestinian boy in Gaza who has no clean water and no country to call his own."

Our ruling

Some of the Obama speeches that Romney cited in his book certainly laid out Obama’s foreign policy ideas, and it seems fair to say that a less confrontational approach was among Obama’s goals. Obama had made no secret during the campaign that he intended to set a different course on foreign policy than Bush -- a committed unilateralist -- had pursued.

Still, we think it’s incorrect for Romney to portray these early speeches as part of a global apology tour. Using Romney’s standard, you could argue that any change in foreign policy that’s undertaken after a presidential transition and announced to the world would constitute an "apology" for the previous policy.

On the substance of Romney’s charge, we believe that what we wrote in March 2010 still stands. While Obama's speeches contained some criticisms of past U.S. actions, those passages were typically leavened by praise for the United States and its ideals, and he frequently mentioned how other countries have erred as well. We found not a single, full-throated apology in the bunch. And on the new angle Romney has added -- that the trips were intended to offer the president a forum to apologize to other countries -- we think it’s a ridiculous charge. There’s a clear difference between changing policies and apologizing, and Obama didn’t do the latter. So we rate Romney’s statement Pants on Fire

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... nd-world-/

_________________
Quote:
Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....


February 21st, 2012, 4:55 pm
Profile
Commissioner of the NFL – Roger Goodell
User avatar

Joined: August 7th, 2004, 4:47 am
Posts: 10943
Location: Sterling Heights, MI
Post Re: What is so special about Israel?
TheRealWags wrote:
Is this what you're referring to?
Politifact wrote:
Blah Blah Blah Blah


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Politifact! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

TheRealWags wrote:
(BTW-For someone that seems to despise Romney, you certainly echo his talking points)

The truth is that it's the other way around. Romney has stolen his talking points from conservatives just for the primary. He'll revert back to his old moderate self if he wins the nomination though.

_________________
Image


February 21st, 2012, 5:11 pm
Profile
QB Coach
User avatar

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pm
Posts: 3039
Location: Elkhart, In.
Post Re: What is so special about Israel?
For the record teh UN inspectors have been denied meeting iwth the scientists and entering Parchin military labs to inspect there. Hmmm, sounds like Iraq all over again.

_________________
2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


February 21st, 2012, 5:39 pm
Profile
Post Re: What is so special about Israel?
WarEr4Christ wrote:
For the record teh UN inspectors have been denied meeting iwth the scientists and entering Parchin military labs to inspect there. Hmmm, sounds like Iraq all over again.


They've also been disallowed into 80% of one of the most prominent facilities they have, and remember, these people aren't there 100% of the time. One site has five major areas, and inspectors have been denied access to 4 of the areas on the site... hmmmm...


February 21st, 2012, 5:41 pm
Commissioner of the NFL – Roger Goodell
User avatar

Joined: August 7th, 2004, 4:47 am
Posts: 10943
Location: Sterling Heights, MI
Post Re: What is so special about Israel?
As just mentioned above:
Fox News wrote:
UN nuke agency reports failed Iran talks

Published February 21, 2012
| Associated Press

VIENNA – The U.N. nuclear agency on Wednesday acknowledged its renewed failure in trying to probe suspicions that Tehran has worked secretly on atomic arms, in a statement issued shortly after an Iranian general warned of a pre-emptive strike against any nation that threatens Iran.

The double signs of defiance reflected continued Iranian determination not to bow to demands that it defuse suspicions about its nuclear activities despite rapidly growing international sanctions imposed over its refusal to signal it is ready to compromise.

With the International Atomic Energy Agency already failing to dent Iranian stonewalling in talks that ended just three weeks ago, hopes had been muted that the latest effort would be any more successful even before the IAEA issued its statement.

The fact that the communique was issued early Wednesday, shortly after midnight and just after the IAEA experts left Tehran, reflected the urgency the agency attached to telling its side of the story.

As the two-day IAEA visit was winding down, Iranian officials sought to cast it in a positive light, with foreign ministry spokesman Ramin Mehmanparast telling reporters that "cooperation with the agency continues and is at its best level."

Beyond differing with that view, the language of the IAEA communique clearly -- if indirectly -- blamed Tehran for the lack of progress.

"We engaged in a constructive spirit, but no agreement was reached," it quoted IAEA chief Yukiya Amano as saying.

The communique said that on both visits, Iran did not grant requests by the IAEA mission to visit Parchin -- a military site thought to be used for explosives testing related to nuclear detonations, and cited Amano as calling this decision "disappointing."

It also said that no agreement was reached on how to begin "clarification of unresolved issues in connection with Iran's nuclear programme, particularly those relating to possible military dimensions."

The abortive trip was just the latest sign of Iranian resolve to continue hard-line resistance in the face of international pressure to curb its nuclear activities, despite sanctions and U.S. and Israeli warnings of possible last-resort military action should diplomacy fail.

Iran over the weekend announced that it will stop selling oil to Britain and France in retaliation for a planned European oil embargo this summer.

The move was mainly symbolic -- Britain and France import almost no oil from Iran -- but it raised concerns that Iran could take the same hard line with other European nations that use more Iranian crude.

The European Union buys about 18 percent of Iran's oil exports, though most of that comes from sales to just two countries: Italy and Spain.

Iran flailed out again just hours before the IAEA team left, with Gen. Mohammed Hejazi, who heads the military's logistical wing, warning that Iran will "not wait for enemies to take action against us."

"We will use all our means to protect our national interests," he told the semiofficial Fars news agency.

His comments followed Iran's announcement of war games to practice protecting nuclear and other sensitive sites, the latest military maneuver viewed as a message to the U.S. and Israel that the Islamic Republic is ready both to defend itself and to retaliate against an armed strike.

The official news agency IRNA said the four-day air defense war games, dubbed "Sarallah," or "God's Revenge," were taking place in the south of the country and involve anti-aircraft batteries, radar, and warplanes. The drill will be held over 73,000 square miles near the port of Bushehr, the site of Iran's lone nuclear power plant.

Iran has held multiple air, land, and sea maneuvers in recent months as tensions increase, while at the same time continuing to deny any interest in nuclear weapons. It asserts that the allegations of secret work on developing such arms are based on fabricated U.S. and Israeli intelligence.

But Amano, the IAEA chief, outlined his concerns in a 13-page summary late last year listing clandestine activities that he said can either be used in civilian or military nuclear programs, or "are specific to nuclear weapons."

Among these were indications that Iran has conducted high-explosives testing to set off a nuclear charge at Parchin -- the site the agency said Wednesday that the IAEA team was not allowed to visit.

Other suspicions include computer modeling of a core of a nuclear warhead and alleged preparatory work for a nuclear weapons test and development of a nuclear payload for Iran's Shahab 3 intermediate range missile -- a weapon that could reach Israel.

The IAEA team had hoped to talk to key Iranian scientists suspected of working on the alleged weapons program, break down opposition to their plans to inspect documents related to nuclear work and secure commitments from Iranian authorities to allow future visits.

Beyond denying any covert work on nuclear arms, Iran also insists concerns that it will turn its uranium enrichment program to making fissile warhead material are unfounded, saying it is enriching uranium only to make nuclear fuel for peaceful purposes such as producing energy.

But because of weapons fears, the U.N. Security Council has imposed sanctions on Tehran in a failed attempt to force it to stop enrichment.

More recently, the U.S., the European Union and other Western allies have either tightened up their own sanctions or rapidly put new penalties in place striking at the heart of Iran's oil exports lifeline and its financial system.

Tehran's expanding enrichment activities at its plant at Fordo, near the holy city of Qom, are of particular concern for Israel -- which has warned it will not let Iran develop nuclear arms -- because it is dug into a mountain and possibly resistant to attack.

In interviews late last week, diplomats told The Associated Press that Iran is poised to install thousands of new-generation centrifuges at the cavernous facility. That would mean that Iran would have the capability of enriching to weapons-grade level much more quickly and efficiently that with its present, less efficient mainstay machines.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/02/21 ... z1n5BDcrEw

What are they trying to hide? You get three guesses and the first two don't count.

_________________
Image


February 22nd, 2012, 12:45 am
Profile
Post Re: What is so special about Israel?
Sly... Get out of here with your truth... We should suppose that we are all a friendly people until we're blown to poop...


I really don't see how some people are so ignorant, and this is why I somewhat understand Sly when he throws out insults and calls people stupid.


February 22nd, 2012, 2:43 am
QB Coach
User avatar

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pm
Posts: 3039
Location: Elkhart, In.
Post Re: What is so special about Israel?
WJB: People aren't ignorant, WE'RE selfish. What do I care about what happens 11teen thousand miles away, I need a job now! I want to be able to eat my Steaks every night, while watching t.v. on my 57" inch plasma, while sitting in my jacuzzi in my living room. Oh wait, I don't need a job, I just need Uncle Tom, I mean Uncle B to, to pay for everything so I can have my x box, and food stamps.

It's a faulty "worldview" which appears to be the new catch phrase.

In truth, as seen by the election topic thread, ECONOMY is #1. But little does everyone know or maybe realize that it isn't JOBS or the lack there of that's causing the issue. RECKLESS spending has devalued the dollar to half it's worth. So a $100 barrel of oil, now costs $200. That filters down to EVERY aspect of our society, and it hurts the American families.

Didn't Lenin say, "the quickest way to destroy a society is to debauch or devalue it's currency"? (Paraphrased)

George Soros claims to have destroyed 4 countries by this method, Uncle B knows exactly what he's doing by placating speeches and reckless actions. He's talking tough to Congress, while issuing nothing but large bailouts.

Israel, in the mean time has proven to be a very good ally. Many medical and technological advances are saving our troops in conflict. They are currently searching for their own sources of Oil, and have discovered a HUGE source of Natural Gas in their area and are going for it.

As someone has already stated, the Rabbis aren't teaching their young men to board buses and kill or main innocent people. So in a land of lunatics, Israel is a shining example of normalcy. And yes they have to be aggressive to survive, and I applaud them for it. Peace through SUPERIOR FIREPOWER.

_________________
2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


February 22nd, 2012, 9:15 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 65 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware.