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 Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks? 
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
Only the top 51 salaries count against the cap, not all 53.

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February 21st, 2012, 1:45 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
m2karateman wrote:
liontrax wrote:
Guess I did a poor job of conveying my opinion. But seeing as this is my "first year watching the NFL" please make allowances. i believe, Avril's big year is a product of the system and the other talent on the D-line. Prior to last season I felt he did nothing to distinguish himself as a starting DE. I do understand the game they play, agents and management. Just think it's ridiculous he is portrayed as our top FA.


I was just joking around with you. Sorry if you took offense.

As for Avril being portrayed as our top FA, I think that is actually pretty accurate. What other free agent of ours has as much market value? Not Backus or Tulloch. While there are certainly other teams who are likely to sign Backus or Tulloch, neither of them will draw as much interest from other teams as Avril. Avril is still young and has performed well for TWO seasons now. I agree that he is every bit the product of the Lions getting better talent on the interior of the line, but he still has to beat the man across from him and get to the passer before the ball leaves his hands. As a run stopper Avril is below average, but that too is a product of the system. The Wide 9 technique pretty much removes him and KVB from being significant against the run unless it's an attempted sweep, or unless they can chase the guy down from behind because the guys on the other side of the line string the play out. That doesn't happen all that often.

Like him or not, 11.5 sacks is a pretty solid number for a DE to get in a year. He's gotten better each season so far. Believe me, if the Lions end up doing a tag and trade, they will likely get a number of teams interested in getting him, and the Lions will get a first round pick out of the deal. Teams like the Jets, Packers or Patriots will definitely be interested in possibly making him a 34 OLB. Cleveland and Tennessee, I believe, would be willing to part with their first round picks (the Browns 22nd pick, not the 4th) to get him. As a matter of fact, Tennessee is so hard up for pass rushers, I think the Lions could get multiple picks from them in return for Avril.


IMO there are two factors that make tagging and trading Cliff the right thing to do. 1) There are too many good CBs available in free agency, and getting a viable starting caliber CB at pick 23 isn't going to be likely. And 2) We could likely get a starting caliber (and cheaper) DE at pick 23-46.

I'd rather spend $8-9 million a year on someone like Porter or Carr, at a position where we can't find talent of that caliber at pick 23 than spend that same cash on Cliff, when we could likely find someone as talented with a potentially higher ceiling with our first round pick, or get a near future ready prospect in round 2-3, like Cliff was when he came out.

Also, our talent drop off from #1 CB Houston, to the rest of our depth is astronomical. The same isn't true at DE. While I'll admit that Cliff is currently our best DE, much like Cliff, Willie Young has shown improvement every year, and there's nothing to suggest that he won't continue to get better, and though LoJack isn't a great DE, I do think he can step in and be effective, unlike our CB depth.


February 21st, 2012, 2:14 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
inheritedlionsfan wrote:
Quote:
2. The franchise period opens today, and the Lions and Cliff Avril are on the clock. Avril doesn't like it, but he's not going anywhere, and I doubt he'll get the long-term deal he wants. The Lions have $11.7 million to spare under the cap. Avril's franchise number would be $10.6 million. Now, they don't want Avril on the books for that much in 2012. They'd rather do a long-term contract with a much lower cap number this year, so they can address other needs. But they know they can franchise him if they have to.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/w ... z1mwZKDb5o


From MMQB. Where did he get that we have 11.7 million to spend? From everything I've been hearing, we're over the cap by 2M.

I can explain this, but you're not going to like it. That total doesn't include cap adjustments, which won't get added until the league year officially begins. Don't ask me why they do it that way, but they always have. So, Peter King's $11.7M number doesn't include CJ's $4.5M bonus, Stafford's $1M salary increase, the escalators for Delmas and Cherilus, the $1.5M or so that the Lions are carrying over from last year, or any other adjustments that we don't know about.

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February 21st, 2012, 5:46 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
slybri19 wrote:
I can explain this, but you're not going to like it. That total doesn't include cap adjustments, which won't get added until the league year officially begins. Don't ask me why they do it that way, but they always have. So, Peter King's $11.7M number doesn't include CJ's $4.5M bonus, Stafford's $1M salary increase, the escalators for Delmas and Cherilus, the $1.5M or so that the Lions are carrying over from last year, or any other adjustments that we don't know about.


I'm sorry, but if Cherilus is due anything in the way of money I'd cut his butt right now. He hasn't earned it, and the Lions need to shake themselves of this moron ASAP. If Lewand can't get Cherilus to somehow waive that escalator or modify his deal so that the Lions aren't paying him more, then too bad. Cut him, trade him, whatever. He's not worth his first round deal, and everyone knows it.

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February 22nd, 2012, 11:17 am
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
m2karateman wrote:
slybri19 wrote:
I can explain this, but you're not going to like it. That total doesn't include cap adjustments, which won't get added until the league year officially begins. Don't ask me why they do it that way, but they always have. So, Peter King's $11.7M number doesn't include CJ's $4.5M bonus, Stafford's $1M salary increase, the escalators for Delmas and Cherilus, the $1.5M or so that the Lions are carrying over from last year, or any other adjustments that we don't know about.


I'm sorry, but if Cherilus is due anything in the way of money I'd cut his butt right now. He hasn't earned it, and the Lions need to shake themselves of this moron ASAP. If Lewand can't get Cherilus to somehow waive that escalator or modify his deal so that the Lions aren't paying him more, then too bad. Cut him, trade him, whatever. He's not worth his first round deal, and everyone knows it.


I agree... I don't know why we would rather over pay this mental midget and move him inside and hope and prey that he can be productive, than draft someone like Kontz.


February 22nd, 2012, 11:29 am
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
wjb21ndtown wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
slybri19 wrote:
I can explain this, but you're not going to like it. That total doesn't include cap adjustments, which won't get added until the league year officially begins. Don't ask me why they do it that way, but they always have. So, Peter King's $11.7M number doesn't include CJ's $4.5M bonus, Stafford's $1M salary increase, the escalators for Delmas and Cherilus, the $1.5M or so that the Lions are carrying over from last year, or any other adjustments that we don't know about.


I'm sorry, but if Cherilus is due anything in the way of money I'd cut his butt right now. He hasn't earned it, and the Lions need to shake themselves of this moron ASAP. If Lewand can't get Cherilus to somehow waive that escalator or modify his deal so that the Lions aren't paying him more, then too bad. Cut him, trade him, whatever. He's not worth his first round deal, and everyone knows it.


I agree... I don't know why we would rather over pay this mental midget and move him inside and hope and prey that he can be productive, than draft someone like Kontz.


YUP!

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February 22nd, 2012, 12:24 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
njroar wrote:
inheritedlionsfan wrote:
Quote:
2. The franchise period opens today, and the Lions and Cliff Avril are on the clock. Avril doesn't like it, but he's not going anywhere, and I doubt he'll get the long-term deal he wants. The Lions have $11.7 million to spare under the cap. Avril's franchise number would be $10.6 million. Now, they don't want Avril on the books for that much in 2012. They'd rather do a long-term contract with a much lower cap number this year, so they can address other needs. But they know they can franchise him if they have to.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/w ... z1mwZKDb5o


From MMQB. Where did he get that we have 11.7 million to spend? From everything I've been hearing, we're over the cap by 2M.


11.7 is the right figure. We have 46 players under contract for 108.3 mill. Getting to 53 is where people speculate the 122 comes in since that includes Wright, Avril, Tulloch, Gos and Levy. They can still rework some contracts to free up some money, so its possible we'd have more. They'll probably borrow 1.5mil from a future season, and we get 1.5 leftover from last season, so our number is a little higher actually.


The bolded part is wrong. We borrowed 1.5 Million last season. Mayhew admitted it just this week. There is none left over from last year.


February 22nd, 2012, 8:54 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
I wonder. Suh was drafted in the last draft before the rookie salary cap. I bet his cap charge for next season is a pretty big number.

Is there any chance that we could rework his deal? Just convert all his roster bonus and salary money, for this year and next, minus the veteran minimum salary, into signing bonus, without adding any years. It should be spread out 4 years right? He get's all that money up front. And the Lions get a bunch of cap relief.


February 22nd, 2012, 9:02 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
I didn't even think about that, but Suh would be the #2 candidate behind CJ to restructure their contract. Depending upon when the 6th year of his contract officially voids, the Lions could free up between $5.8M and $6.5M of cap space by doing a simple restructure.

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February 23rd, 2012, 1:54 am
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
slybri19 wrote:
I didn't even think about that, but Suh would be the #2 candidate behind CJ to restructure their contract. Depending upon when the 6th year of his contract officially voids, the Lions could free up between $5.8M and $6.5M of cap space by doing a simple restructure.


I was under the impression that CJ, Stafford and Suh all allowed their contracts to be restructured last season to free up money?

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February 23rd, 2012, 11:59 am
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
m2karateman wrote:
slybri19 wrote:
I didn't even think about that, but Suh would be the #2 candidate behind CJ to restructure their contract. Depending upon when the 6th year of his contract officially voids, the Lions could free up between $5.8M and $6.5M of cap space by doing a simple restructure.


I was under the impression that CJ, Stafford and Suh all allowed their contracts to be restructured last season to free up money?


No, it was Stafford and Vanden Bosch. CJ and Suh are still on their rookie contracts.

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February 23rd, 2012, 12:05 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
mwill2 wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
slybri19 wrote:
I didn't even think about that, but Suh would be the #2 candidate behind CJ to restructure their contract. Depending upon when the 6th year of his contract officially voids, the Lions could free up between $5.8M and $6.5M of cap space by doing a simple restructure.


I was under the impression that CJ, Stafford and Suh all allowed their contracts to be restructured last season to free up money?


No, it was Stafford and Vanden Bosch. CJ and Suh are still on their rookie contracts.


Stafford isn't on his rookie contract? I'm pretty sure he is.

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February 23rd, 2012, 2:50 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
m2karateman wrote:
mwill2 wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
slybri19 wrote:
I didn't even think about that, but Suh would be the #2 candidate behind CJ to restructure their contract. Depending upon when the 6th year of his contract officially voids, the Lions could free up between $5.8M and $6.5M of cap space by doing a simple restructure.


I was under the impression that CJ, Stafford and Suh all allowed their contracts to be restructured last season to free up money?


No, it was Stafford and Vanden Bosch. CJ and Suh are still on their rookie contracts.


Stafford isn't on his rookie contract? I'm pretty sure he is.


No. Stafford and KVB renegotiated before camp last year in order to free up space for Tulloch. A renegotiation is a new contract, so Stafford technically is no longer playing on his rookie deal.

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February 23rd, 2012, 3:28 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
mwill2 wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
mwill2 wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
slybri19 wrote:
I didn't even think about that, but Suh would be the #2 candidate behind CJ to restructure their contract. Depending upon when the 6th year of his contract officially voids, the Lions could free up between $5.8M and $6.5M of cap space by doing a simple restructure.


I was under the impression that CJ, Stafford and Suh all allowed their contracts to be restructured last season to free up money?


No, it was Stafford and Vanden Bosch. CJ and Suh are still on their rookie contracts.


Stafford isn't on his rookie contract? I'm pretty sure he is.


No. Stafford and KVB renegotiated before camp last year in order to free up space for Tulloch. A renegotiation is a new contract, so Stafford technically is no longer playing on his rookie deal.


I'm not saying I'm right, but I think it would still be considered his rookie deal. They didn't change the length or the amount of money, but just how he would get paid that money. As I recall, they took some of his salary money and turned it into a bonus payment, thereby allowing them to spread that money out over the remaining years of the deal and lowering his cap hit in 2011. I don't think that technically qualifies as a "new" deal.

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February 23rd, 2012, 4:39 pm
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Post Re: Avril's Contract: Within 2 weeks?
In the eyes of the league it is a new deal because the payment schedule changed.

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February 23rd, 2012, 5:53 pm
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