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 What is so special about Israel? 
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Post Re: What is so special about Israel?
TheRealWags wrote:
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Sorry for the non-reply to your question, there are so many questions it's hard to keep track.

What is so special about Israel?

To answer this accurately, you have to understand the Biblical aspect of it which so many adamantly deny, or question it's authenticity.

Israel as a nation, or people, is the only Ancient nation that has NOT changed since those ancient times. Where are the Amelikites, or Babylonians, or how about the Persians? Two of the three have "morphed" into the Iraqis, or Iranians, but they've still changed, Israel never has.

Through the course of time and extreme pressure, they as a people were driven to the far reaches and it was only in 1948 that they were re-established in their ancesteral homeland. So the said, "turmoil" is actually because those who would claim the land have been displaced from a homeland that wasn't theirs in the first place.

Since that time frame, many Arab countries have fought hard to destroy Israel sinces it's rebirth.

In returning to Scripture prophecies, which are being answered very quickly, you will see that Jerusalem will play a pivotal role in the end time scenario. The false peace, the final conflicts, and so on....

Israel is a crucial piece to the whole puzzle. My question in return to you, is why is Israel the only nation NOT allowed to DEFEND itself?
If Mexico was sending in bus bombers and rockets into our homeland do you not think we would unleash hell against them? But yet, Israel is told they can not do this, or should not do this. How is that right?

Hebrews and Arabs are born from the same father, Abraham. They have hated each other since the time that Ishmael was ousted from the family.

So Israel is important to the US because of our Judeo/Christian beliefs, and the relationship that has long been between us and Israel. However, as this POTUS has illustrated, a US that abandons Israel, will only strengthen the world against Israel. In that case, when you back a nation into the corner, you can only know that it will fight with ultimate agression, and they are far more advanced, capable, and willing than we give them credit for. They may be small but they are completely lethal.

Ask Egypt who's Air Force was grounded because the pilots were told their families were being attacked by Israeli commandos and they needed to return to protect their families. Meanwhile Israel destroyed Egypts Air Force on the ground.

Israel is a bastion of peace, and has been far more tolerant than the nations around it. She often takes hits and attacks without full scale retaliation, and does so under the REPEATED hate and discontent of the UN.

It will get much worse, and Iran and Russia will attack Israel at some point, wiping out most of it, until something dramatic and unexplainable happens for non-Christians. But if I keep typing this way, you are gonna accuse me of copying "Left Behind" series. And when it does get better, and there is "Peace" in Israel, watch out.
So, in other words, because of religion the US is choosing Israel over any other nation, is that correct? If so, what is the difference between that and Muslims choosing their nation(s) because of their religion? Couldn't it be said that they're pretty much the same, just coming from different beliefs? Also, if true, then wouldn't that be in direct opposition to the 1st Amendment of the US Constitution? Especially considering, as TDJ advised in another thread:
Quote:
Per the supreme court (and Black's Law Dictionary), the establishment clause is:

"[t]he First Amendment provision that prohibits the federal and state governments from establishing an official religion, or from favoring or disfavoring one view of religion over another."
IF what you state is true, then the consistent support of Israel over Muslim / Islamic nations could be seen as the "favoring of one view of religion over another". Or am I missing something? If so, please clarify / explain.

**crickets**

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February 22nd, 2012, 10:14 am
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Post Re: What is so special about Israel?
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Sly... Get out of here with your truth... We should suppose that we are all a friendly people until we're blown to poop...


I really don't see how some people are so ignorant, and this is why I somewhat understand Sly when he throws out insults and calls people stupid.

First off, ignorant does not mean stupid. If you feel as though I, or anyone else, is ignorant, then perhaps you could try to educate instead of insult. But alas that would require you to put forth an effort; instead just take the easy way out.

So, are you both saying that you expect Iran, or any country for that matter, to just roll over and open everything up because the UN (who has been derided plenty of times in this forum) asks?? Not likely. There are many different variables that need to be considered. Experience has shown me that these things take time, I believe it is usually called 'negotiations' and 'politics'. Could Iran be hiding something? Most assuredly, as every Country on Earth is hiding something. Perhaps the best, first step would to actually attempt to reestablish diplomatic relations, but then I supposed some folks would think that is a sign of weakness.

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February 22nd, 2012, 10:32 am
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Post Re: What is so special about Israel?
slybri19 wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
Is this what you're referring to?
Politifact wrote:
Blah Blah Blah Blah


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Politifact! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Care to elaborate?

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February 22nd, 2012, 10:39 am
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Post Re: What is so special about Israel?
I'm slightly confused:

1st: I see you quoting "blacks law" but then I read that BL is the worst source for quoting legal issues.

2nd: I don't understand your premise in that by supporting one nation, including it's historical significance, is seen as favoring a religion.

3rd: if by my choice to support Israel is seen as a reason for the country to support Israel, you give me far too much credit.

Since you have the ability and desire to search facts, please feel free to show via graphs, and flow charts, what has been beneficial about our relationship with Israel. I will even make an attempt to do the same, and then we can compare notes. BRB.

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February 22nd, 2012, 1:45 pm
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Post Re: What is so special about Israel?
Here is just some of the stuff that I've found by searching. NOTE that one of which comes from a facebook site called CUFI.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... ecial.html

• Israeli-made armor saves US soldiers’ lives | Make a Difference for Israel Everyday in 2012
makeadifference.cufi.org

Did you know that an Israeli scientist pioneered the use of bacteria to clean up oil pollution in oil tankers, pipelines and on beaches?

• Israel Fact of the Day- We LIKE that an Israeli 'super-sensor' has been installed in Sealy mattresses to control snoring problems.

• Christians United for Israel (CUFI)
Israel Fact of the Day- We LIKE that Israeli researchers are successfully using magnets to treat post-traumatic stress disorder.


So it goes well beyond the religious reasoning that you are so against. To go along with this, what other nation in the region has been so welcoming of us?

Saudi Arabia? Iraq? wait, how about Yemen, or Bahrain? Each of these nations are welcoming to a point but have made it VERY well known that Americans can NOT bring their influence with them. No practicing of their religion (whatever it may be), no carrying of a Bible, EVEN IF YOU ARE PASSING THROUGH the country via airline (Saudi Arabia: via Delta Airlines) The religious faith of the region, has created America as the great satan, and they only tolerate us because of our money.

Israel, is welcoming like a brother without strings attached. In fact, on the CUFI facebook page, they are celebrating the growth of Christian Population within their country from 38k in 48 to well over 130k now, if I read it right. 400% growth without the beheadings, threats, and so on....

So who are the real threats to the region? Who would you want to ally with?

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February 22nd, 2012, 2:02 pm
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Post Re: What is so special about Israel?
TheRealWags wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Sly... Get out of here with your truth... We should suppose that we are all a friendly people until we're blown to poop...


I really don't see how some people are so ignorant, and this is why I somewhat understand Sly when he throws out insults and calls people stupid.

First off, ignorant does not mean stupid. If you feel as though I, or anyone else, is ignorant, then perhaps you could try to educate instead of insult. But alas that would require you to put forth an effort; instead just take the easy way out.

So, are you both saying that you expect Iran, or any country for that matter, to just roll over and open everything up because the UN (who has been derided plenty of times in this forum) asks?? Not likely. There are many different variables that need to be considered. Experience has shown me that these things take time, I believe it is usually called 'negotiations' and 'politics'. Could Iran be hiding something? Most assuredly, as every Country on Earth is hiding something. Perhaps the best, first step would to actually attempt to reestablish diplomatic relations, but then I supposed some folks would think that is a sign of weakness.



Wags, that wasn't directed toward anyone in particular. I was a general statement meant to be taken as a general statement. It was a simple explanation as to why I can understand Sly when he gets frustrated and starts throwing out insults, that's it.



The majority of us hate the UN because they're inept, not because they're biased or somehow incapable of inspecting someone's nuclear capabilities. For you to bring up the objections raised here on the board as evidence that it is ok for Iran to rebuke the UN inspectors is just plain silly. Satellites discovered a nuclear refinery in 2003 and Iran blew it up before we could get in there. Iran won't allow the UN into 80% of one of their most prominent facilities, and I guaranty you that we don't know every area that they're pursuing this crap in. They also won't let us (or the UN) talk to their scientists. On top of that THEY'RE the assholes that are doing the majority of the sabre rattling. They're sending warships to Syria, they're claiming that they're going to send warships over here to the US, they're testing weapons and weapon guidance systems that have a curious range that just so happens to include Israel, they're saying they want to wipe Israel off of the map. Israel is simply responding, and to me they seem to be the most peaceful people in the region. You can list a wealth of atrocities that they have committed, but they're generally committed as RETALIATION. If the country being retaliated against doesn't like it THEN THEY SHOULD STOP LAUNCHING MISSILES INTO ISRAEL.

Now if you want to say that we should respect their sovereignty and they should be allowed to pursue a nuclear weapon, that's a different argument. I would say "screw that" to the argument, but it is a valid argument. Iran has not demonstrated the stability nor security to be trusted with nuclear technology, period.


February 22nd, 2012, 3:18 pm
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Post Re: What is so special about Israel?
Documents were released today that it wasn't the Iranian Nuclear agency that has been requesting nuclear materials since the 90's but a division of their military. The entire notion that the need for nuclear has been for energy purposes just got thrown out with the bath water. Iran wants nuclear for one reason and one reason only, for military reasons.


February 22nd, 2012, 5:03 pm
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Post Re: What is so special about Israel?
njroar wrote:
Documents were released today that it wasn't the Iranian Nuclear agency that has been requesting nuclear materials since the 90's but a division of their military. The entire notion that the need for nuclear has been for energy purposes just got thrown out with the bath water. Iran wants nuclear for one reason and one reason only, for military reasons.


If they want it for electricity they should allow private contractors from China, the U.S., or France to come in and build a run a facility for them. It would be way more efficient, they have more advanced technology, and they would get more out of it. They could do a direct swap for oil, and everyone would allegedly be happy, aside from the small fact that they really want to make a bomb...


February 22nd, 2012, 5:20 pm
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Post Re: What is so special about Israel?
Are you guys ****ing serious?

Didn't we see this 10 years ago with Iraq?


February 22nd, 2012, 9:27 pm
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Post Re: What is so special about Israel?
wjb21ndtown wrote:
I really don't see how some people are so ignorant, and this is why I somewhat understand Sly when he throws out insults and calls people stupid.


To be honest, I just do it for fun. Watch this:

Unfortunately, people's intelligence or lack thereof isn't the only problem we have today. When libtards are involved, sanity becomes an issue as well. Most of those demented freaks are batshit crazy that shouldn't be allowed to walk the streets. For instance, some animal rights moonbat bitch from Cleveland was arrested today by the FBI for attempting to hire a hitman. She was going to pay $730 for someone to shoot the first person over 12 to leave a library wearing a fur coat. We used to call those people lunatics. Now, we just call them progressives.

See how easy that was? :D

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February 23rd, 2012, 1:03 am
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Post Re: What is so special about Israel?
TheRealWags wrote:
slybri19 wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
Is this what you're referring to?
Politifact wrote:
Blah Blah Blah Blah


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Politifact! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Care to elaborate?

Are you serious? Why don't you just copy and paste your next article directly from the DNC or the Obama Administration next time? As I said initially:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Politifact! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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February 23rd, 2012, 1:08 am
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Post Re: What is so special about Israel?
Blueskies wrote:
Are you guys ****ing serious?

Didn't we see this 10 years ago with Iraq?

I just hope you're not one of the people that go, "Oops!" as they see the mushroom cloud mere seconds before they get vaporized. As you're fond of saying, ignorance is bliss.

As an aside, I sure hope we expand our oil drilling to become energy independent before this thing plays out the way I think it will. It is estimated that Israel has 40 nukes and many of them are carried on 3 submarines. If someone goes nuclear on them, does anyone doubt that the Israelis will retaliate with an even greater number of warheads? And it wouldn't be limited to Iran either. Rumor is that Israel has informed every Arab state that if they are nuked, Mecca is gone. Things would get very ugly if it got to that point.

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February 23rd, 2012, 1:26 am
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Post Re: What is so special about Israel?
Sly: Ignorance is only bliss to the ignorant.

In regards to Israel, I heard throughout my military career that Israel has nukes that even we don't have. It could be heresay, but the type that they talked about only killed animal life, and not vegetation. From what I was to understand it was artillery delivered, and did not have the radiation after affects of known nuclear weapons. As I said, it was something that I had heard from several weapons guys, but did not see anything in print.

Keep in mind though, the Israeli's were the ONLY country that I'm aware of that has developed a gun that can shoot around corners. The technology that they've developed and used because they've had to is phenomenal. For example their main battle tank, beats the Abrams hands down, and will definitely overwhelm any 2nd rate Russian cast off that the Arab countries can muster. The only way any Arab country will win is by numbers alone.

This area is a powder keg, and has been for centuries, just not to this level. It is as I said, Scriptural, but I'm sure there are many that will scoff at that. See Daniel Chapter 11 if you wish in reference to kings of the North coming down.

Sidenote: to show you the instability of the nations around it, take a look at Iraq in recent days. Some American burned a book, the (un)holy quaran, and now people are dying because of it? And the riots, seriously? You could burn all the Bibles and I would not care, in fact I will give you mine if that's what you need, and still would not care.

I think what we are seeing is a product of culture. In most countries, education is for the wealthy. So many Muslim countries incorporate schools, (i forgot what their called) where the boys to young men and told to memorize the quaran. However, they only memorize what they are taught, so if you have a radical cleric who 'adjusts' the words he teaches you can see where paradise is waiting at the end of a detonation. If it were true, why aren't the clerics rushing out to meet their virgins, instead of giving them to the poor, deceived men they teach?

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February 23rd, 2012, 9:23 am
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Post Re: What is so special about Israel?
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Now if you want to say that we should respect their sovereignty and they should be allowed to pursue a nuclear weapon, that's a different argument. I would say "screw that" to the argument, but it is a valid argument. Iran has not demonstrated the stability nor security to be trusted with nuclear technology, period.
This is ultimately what I was trying to convey. I'm of the opinion that we need to get and stay the hell out of everyone else's business. Call it isolationist if you want, but I think that was the view of our Founding Fathers and we were able to maintain that stance until around WWII.
slybri19 wrote:
Are you serious? Why don't you just copy and paste your next article directly from the DNC or the Obama Administration next time? As I said initially:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Politifact! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
So, no proof just more rhetoric, typical
slybri19 wrote:
As an aside, I sure hope we expand our oil drilling to become energy independent before this thing plays out the way I think it will.
Now this is something I think most of us can agree on. We need to become energy independent as a matter of national security.

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February 23rd, 2012, 11:29 am
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Post Re: What is so special about Israel?
Blueskies wrote:
Are you guys ****ing serious?

Didn't we see this 10 years ago with Iraq?


No, this is a collective effort with one end, not allowing Iran to get a nuclear bomb. I really think Israel would head the effort, and I think most of it could be done through drones and an air strike. We wouldn't be "nation building" per se like we were doing in Iraq. There would be no need for ground troops, and it wouldn't cost 1/10th of what we spent in Iraq.


TheRealWags wrote:
This is ultimately what I was trying to convey. I'm of the opinion that we need to get and stay the hell out of everyone else's business. Call it isolationist if you want, but I think that was the view of our Founding Fathers and we were able to maintain that stance until around WWII.


Wags, that's a legitimate position, but IMO it isn't very realistic. Iran detests our way of life, our faith, and our influence on other countries. Even if we're not trying we still bring about "Western" ways of life to other nations through our very existence. Dictators ruling with an iron fist bring about much more fury when their citizens look at us and see how much better we have it. Our existence brings out hope in them, and desires of revolution. We are, for all intensive purposes, their enemy. This isn't a cause of us "meddling in their business," it's caused by our existence.

That said, I don't think many of those countries are much of a threat to us, and I don't care if they like us or not. However, we must not allow them to be able to create a nuclear bomb. It's the one threat that we can't over-come. One nuke could literally kill millions of people, scar us, and quite literally, forever alter our way of life. It is simply unacceptable to give them that technology, especially when they don't need for any other purpose than to use it on us. We don't threaten them nuclearly, nor does anyone else. They have no need for a nuclear bomb for peaceful purposes.


February 23rd, 2012, 3:57 pm
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