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 Twain explains why ideaologues cannot understand each other 
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Post Twain explains why ideaologues cannot understand each other
Wasn't quite sure where to put this, so I created a new thread :D

I think this explains a lot....and is rather accurate as well:
Mark Twain wrote:
“Let us consider that we are all partially insane. It will explain us to each other, it will unriddle many riddles, it will make clear and simple many things which are involved in haunting and harassing difficulties and obscurities now.

That is a simple rule, and easy to remember. When I, a thoughtful and unbiased Presbyterian, examine the Koran, I know that beyond any question every Mohammedan is insane; not in all things, but in religious matters. When a thoughtful and unbiased Mohammedan examines the Westminster Catechism, he knows that beyond any question I am spiritually insane. I cannot prove to him that he is insane, because you never can prove anything to a lunatic--for that is part of his insanity and the evidence of it. He cannot prove to me that I am insane, for my mind has the same defect that afflicts his. All democrats are insane, but not one of them knows it; none but the republicans and mugwumps know it. All the republicans are insane, but only thee democrats and mugwumps can perceive it. The rule is perfect; in all matters of opinion our adversaries are insane. When I look around me I am often troubled to see how many people are mad.

This should move us to be charitable toward one anothers lunacies.”
― Mark Twain

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February 23rd, 2012, 12:21 pm
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Post Re: Twain explains why ideaologues cannot understand each ot
By the way, I did find this on Twitter so there might be some hidden agenda behind it....be careful... :wink:

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February 23rd, 2012, 12:29 pm
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Post Re: Twain explains why ideaologues cannot understand each ot
Over the years I have found this to be true, for some reason folks turn off their brains when it comes to religion or politics (and good looking women for us men). I realize it is hard to retrain the brain to think and unfortunately we live in a culture that tries to avoid the "hard".

That said, I am seeing an increase in the number of "thinkers". It is still a very small group but if it can reach a critical mass great things can happen.

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February 23rd, 2012, 12:43 pm
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Post Re: Twain explains why ideaologues cannot understand each ot
The problem is that we've regulated safety. Darwinism can't take place when you've made it impossible to die of stupidity. The population thus grow by large numbers of stupid people.

There are definitely those we perceive to be insane, and those that are truly insane. "Thinkers" are being outnumbered to an unbalanced degree.


February 23rd, 2012, 12:48 pm
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Post Re: Twain explains why ideaologues cannot understand each ot
njroar wrote:
The problem is that we've regulated safety. Darwinism can't take place when you've made it impossible to die of stupidity. The population thus grow by large numbers of stupid people.

There are definitely those we perceive to be insane, and those that are truly insane. "Thinkers" are being outnumbered to an unbalanced degree.
Nothing is impossible; IMO that is a defeatist attitude. That said, see http://www.darwinawards.com/ for further proof :wink:

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February 23rd, 2012, 12:54 pm
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Post Re: Twain explains why ideaologues cannot understand each ot
njroar, I understand what you are saying to a degree - the idiocracy of the population. On-the-other-hand, I see many intelligent people that are too lazy to think and that is where my problem is. You have to deal with the hand you are dealt, if you aren't smart that is one thing but if you are smart and too lazy to use what you have that is another.

Part of it is education, we are taught to memorize answers so we can pass tests. Who ever is the best at memorization gets an A. You can see this all the way to the adult population now. There needs to be a massive overhaul of the education system to teach people how to "think" from a very young age. It is the responsibility of both parents and teachers.

It applies to religion as well. Both of my son's go to a Methodist school. The school overall is great, but kids are not taught how to think about spirituality - instead they are told. I constantly challenge what they have been "taught" by asking what they think of these things to retrain their brain. I ask them how else it could be interpreted, why it happened that way, and to imagine if the events unfolded the exact opposite way. I have never once told them what I think about spirituality because kids will simply fall in line with that line of thinking.

We are educating a nation of robots and have for a long time. Each robot believes they think for themselves when nothing could be further from the truth. It is a sad commentary when someone thinks there are only two choices/paths in life. Coke or Pepsi. Rep or Dem. God or no God. Left or Right. Black or White. Romney or Santorum. Michigan or Michigan State. Dog or Cat. Coffee or Tea.

Choices are infinite when you actually think. When you don't think it is amazing how finate your choices are and how you believe in the illusion of choice.

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February 23rd, 2012, 1:06 pm
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Post Re: Twain explains why ideaologues cannot understand each ot
What if I were to tell you that a dumb society is a society easily controlled? Think about it, and then look at our Educational system. We have walked away from Educational Competition in order to protect the inner child of each person. Let's everyone feel happy and make nice! By lowering our standards to middle of the road so that it can be easily attained, we have really tied the hands of the "thinkers."

Looking at ubran America, our educational infrastructure rivals war zones more than educational institutions. We hold teachers accountable for Braindead Bobby, because he can't help it that his mom has 4 other kids, and lives on welfare, in government housing, and so on. Parents recieve a hall pass on personal responsibility for their children's education and since we can't control the parents, well then we will go after the teachers.

The loss of morality, and decency in our culture, as perpetuated by just about every television program on t.v. has led this entertainment driven society to the brink of destruction. Seems to me that Rome was in the same boat before they imploded on themselves.

The uneducated, or under educated masses will be content to have everything given to them so that they can continue to live there lives without responsibility and duty, and the process by which we'd climb out of this mess continues to be destroyed.

Knowledge is power, so if the government can keep us ignorant, they keep the power.

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February 23rd, 2012, 2:54 pm
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Post Re: Twain explains why ideaologues cannot understand each ot
njroar wrote:
The problem is that we've regulated safety. Darwinism can't take place when you've made it impossible to die of stupidity. The population thus grow by large numbers of stupid people.

There are definitely those we perceive to be insane, and those that are truly insane. "Thinkers" are being outnumbered to an unbalanced degree.



I couldn't agree more with this statement. If you need a warning on a 5 gallon bucket thats says "Caution you may drown"...then it's prolly best for everyone that you stick your whole head in the bucket.

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February 23rd, 2012, 5:37 pm
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Post Re: Twain explains why ideaologues cannot understand each ot
I suppose my post in the Israel thread about libtards being insane had something to do with this, huh? :lol:

I guess it's a good idea to start a new thread instead of derailing that one any further, so allow me to opine.

Mark Twain was absolutely correct. It's just a matter of perspective. I've always called liberalism a mental disorder, hence combining the words "liberal" and "retard" to form "libtard" Afterall, most of their beliefs appear to be from an alternate universe where unicorns fart rainbows and leprechauns are a vertically challenged minority who are unjustly discriminated against.

Conversely, I have often been called a lunatic, crazy, insane, and many other things from some recently escaped asylum inmates, after I've poked a stick at them long enough to make their heads explode. Trust me, I know which buttons to push to make them go batshit crazy in an instant, and I absolutely love doing it too. :D

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February 23rd, 2012, 9:56 pm
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Post Re: Twain explains why ideaologues cannot understand each ot
OK, I'm pissed off. I just spent the last two hours writing my longest post in history, but the board logged me out when I hit submit. It's gone now, but it was epic. I didn't even say libtard, call Obama a commie, crack any jokes, or insult anyone. I was attempting to be serious for once and look what it got me. Perhaps it's a sign from the invisible dude in the sky or something? I don't know.

The gist of it was this: Both parties suck, but the Republicans are the lesser of two evils. Ross Perot got 19% but nobody else has come close to that in recent history. Can a 3rd party match the Dems and Reps in money and organization? Is the tea party a legitimate 3rd party or do Americans want something else? If something else, what?

I also broke down the demographics and wondered what groups or special interests the new party could steal from. For instance, the Dems support women, gays, and Muslims. One of these groups don't support the other two. The same goes for unions and environmentalists. Some work for oil, gas, coal, manufacturing, or transportation industries that the other wants to shut down. Do you see the problem here?

I'd personally love to see a 3rd party emerge that would represent We The People, but is it possible? I also went into short term consequences vs long term returns, but I am concerned about irreversable damage caused in the short term. Face it, we're screwed. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

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February 24th, 2012, 4:16 am
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Post Re: Twain explains why ideaologues cannot understand each ot
slybri19 wrote:
OK, I'm pissed off. I just spent the last two hours writing my longest post in history, but the board logged me out when I hit submit. It's gone now, but it was epic. I didn't even say libtard, call Obama a commie, crack any jokes, or insult anyone. I was attempting to be serious for once and look what it got me. Perhaps it's a sign from the invisible dude in the sky or something? I don't know.

The gist of it was this: Both parties suck, but the Republicans are the lesser of two evils. Ross Perot got 19% but nobody else has come close to that in recent history. Can a 3rd party match the Dems and Reps in money and organization? Is the tea party a legitimate 3rd party or do Americans want something else? If something else, what?

I also broke down the demographics and wondered what groups or special interests the new party could steal from. For instance, the Dems support women, gays, and Muslims. One of these groups don't support the other two. The same goes for unions and environmentalists. Some work for oil, gas, coal, manufacturing, or transportation industries that the other wants to shut down. Do you see the problem here?

I'd personally love to see a 3rd party emerge that would represent We The People, but is it possible? I also went into short term consequences vs long term returns, but I am concerned about irreversable damage caused in the short term. Face it, we're screwed. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.


I would have really liked to have seen your other post. I will say, based on this brief overview, that there is hope for Sly. The pieces are coming together in that interesting brain of yours. You are kind of like a mad scientist, I dig it and we always know exactly what your stance is whether we agree with it or not.

It's nice to see you recognize the fact that the Republican party isn't a great representation of your beliefs. Truth be told, there is never going to be that perfect party for you - well unless you start one. I was a long term Republican and still fall on their side of idiology so they are the lessor of two evils for me. That said, I have seen them in power and now realize they aren't going to take the country in the right direction. I also see them being much more similar to the Democrats, at least in terms of results, than I would have years ago. Hence, Coke and Pepsi.

Now having started a family my perspective has changed. We have borrowed and spent for most of my lifetime, the bills are starting to come due which is causing some of the pain we are now in. It will take short term pain for long term prosperity. Looking back at history, this is often the case. Look what happened in the years following WWI or WWII. The country had a lot of resolve back then, I just don't see that much anymore.

I see people so stuck in their black and white thinking they are only going to keep us on the current path. They claim to love America, but in reality are trying to prop up short term gains for the ulitmate decline of this great country.

I say, who care if Obama wins (and he will despite my reservations). What we need to be focused on is the long-term prosperity of our nation from many perspectives. This is going to mean we either 1) need a dramatic shift in one or both of the political parties or 2) need other parties to emerge as real contenders. I'd rather have two REAL competing ideologies - say socialism vs. libertarianism - to galvinate this country and put us down the right path. This is only going to start happening if enough people realize the truth - neither party is going to fix what is broken but rather continue to perpetuate their monopoly in our government.

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February 24th, 2012, 12:31 pm
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Post Re: Twain explains why ideaologues cannot understand each ot
I'm not gonna retype the entire 20 paragraphs or so like I did last night, but I'll post some now and more on the weekend if I have time.

I started the diatribe in response to Pablo's post about Coke or Pepsi which he has made on a couple of threads now, so here goes:

Contrary to what most people think, I am not a die-hard Republican. I did register as a Republican when I first voted back in the 80's, but I changed it to Independent when I moved back in the late 90's. My registration has remained the same ever since. What I am is a die-hard fiscal conservative who pretty much hates the government. However, I do realize that government is a necessary evil, but as it has grown, it has become less necessary and more evil. As a result, I have joined up with other like-minded patriots in the Tea Party movement, which better describes me than any other political ideology or label.

In this current political climate, there are only two realistic options - Coke or Pepsi, as Pablo calls it, or Democrat or Republican. For me, there is only one possibility between them, which I call the lesser of two evils, or the Republican Party. They atleast pretend to be fiscal conservatives, while the Democrats promise to spend taxpayer money on virtually everything and usually keep that promise and then some. In addition, whether people care to admit it or not, the Democratic Party has been taken over by the far left Statists, Socialists, Communists, Marxists, or whatever big government label you wish to place on them. This is no longer your grandfather's party and if JFK could see what has happened to it, he would roll over in his grave. Unfortunately though, the Republican Party is controlled by the RINO establishment, who could realistically be called Socialist-lite. That's why you'll often see me rail against the Republican Establishment and why I also hate around 80% of their politicians. But atleast that's a better record than the 99.9% of Democrats that I loathe.

This is why I agree with Pablo's call for a 3rd party. Unfortunately, I don't see how one could be possible or feasible at this particular time. There are many obstacles, but the main two are money and organization. Regardless of what they may say, the vast majority of money that the Dems and Reps receive come from special interest groups. Even the money given by individuals is usually because that person belongs to one of those special interests. Very little money flows in from grassroots regular Americans who don't have ties to unions, big business, or environmental, gay rights, gun rights, pro or anti abortion, or religious groups. That's just the way it is. And for the most part, it's these same individuals, who are a part of special interest groups, who organize campaigns at the local, state, and national levels. How can a third party that is not bought and paid for by special interests even begin to compete? That's the number one question that must be answered before it can even hope to be successful.

I gotta run, but I'll later discuss how there is serious talk of starting a third party if Romney gets the GOP nomination. It wouldn't be this year though. Also, I'll bring up the special interest groups involved and which ones might agree to sign on. I'll talk about the national demographics and which ones could be sympathetic to a new party. And last but not least, I'll discuss the Tea Party and what it represents. It isn't the far right, racist, extremeist wing of the Republican Party that the media tries to portray it as. Most of you will probably be surprised.

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February 24th, 2012, 6:50 pm
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Post Re: Twain explains why ideaologues cannot understand each ot
If you are die-hard fiscal conservative, you are actually doing your ideology a dis-service by backing moderate Republicans.

Why? Aren't they the lesser of two evils? If we're screwed either way, we might as well be slightly less screwed, right?

I say wrong. GWB was a tax-and-spend (deficit spending is taxation, even if you don't raise taxes), regulate business, Keynesian-stimulate, anti-free market, pro-big government politician just like Obama. Just like Mitt Romney will be. Just like Santorum will be.

However, the ignorant masses don't see it this way. They think GWB was a champion of laissez faire capitalism when nothing could be further from the truth. Now, capitalism and an unregulated economy have been given a bad name and have become a dirty word.

So, you might as well vote for the big government politician who calls himself a big government politician. Then, when things go to hell, the average person might be inclined to recognize the problem for what it is.

As for the easiness of the black/white coke/pepsi perspective, its not just easy--its also comforting. I said in another topic that libertarnism was a scary ideology. The world is scary. The world is complex. There are no binary choices. Doing the "right" thing can still lead to a bad outcome and vice-versa. People don't like to accept this. So, they convince themselves that if we just took this path, or that path--everything would be OK. When in reality nothing is absolute, the future cannot be predicted and ultimately much of it comes down to a dice roll.


February 25th, 2012, 6:03 pm
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Post Re: Twain explains why ideaologues cannot understand each ot
I'm gonna ignore the above post and continue on.

According to Gallup's latest poll on political ideology, 41% of Americans consider themselves conservative, while 36% are moderates and 21% call themselves liberals. With results like that, it's a wonder how a liberal could ever be elected to office. The reason is because of the Democrat's big tent philosophy. They claim to be for women, gays, unions, environmentalists, minorities, poor, middle class, illegal immigrants, Jews, Catholics, Muslims, atheists, abortionists, anti-war activists, and several others. But as I said in a previous post, some of these groups' demands are opposed to the interests of other groups under this big tent. I mentioned the unions/environmentalists and the Muslims/gays/women contradiction, but it also includes the poor and some minorities competing for the same jobs as illegal immigrants, atheists vs. the Catholics, Jews, and Muslims, and the middle class paying taxes to fund programs for the poor who don't pay any taxes.

Unfortunately though, this entire thing is held together by single issue voters who put the environment, gay rights, abortion, or unions above anything else and refuse to change their party affiliation. As an example, I have convinced my two gay neighbors that Obama is corrupt and his economic policies are not in the best interests of this country, but they will continue to vote Democrat because they wish to marry some day. I also know some African-Americans who agree with me on several issues, but will continue to vote Democrat because they give them the most free stuff. This is what we're up against folks. In order for a third party to succeed, it must peel off some of these special interest groups and/or convince the single issue voters that elections are about more than one issue.

As for the Republicans, they are a mess who have managed to alienate most of their base. They obviously have big business (even though the Dems get just as much money from this group as the GOP), small business, the religious right, national defense advocates including most of the military, people from rural areas, and common everyday folks who want government to stay out of their lives. Unfortunately, the GOP doesn't follow through on most of their promises and compromises with the left far too often. This has pissed off the base to the point that a majority could defect to a third party if it were viable and there are ample discussions of doing just that.

I believe it's evident that if a major third party were to form, it would come from the right and it would have devastating short term consequences. Most election results would be something like 50% Dem, 25% GOP, and 25% 3rd Party. This would effectively hand the far left Democrats complete control of the government. Just imagine what they would do in this circumstance? There would be no need to backdoor legislation like Obamacare through reconcilliation when they could pass whatever they wanted at will. Goodbye America. Even though the moderates and single issue voters would finally wake up and vote the fools out the next cycle, it could be too late by then. This is what has scared off most tea partiers from going in that direction and it's a valid point. Even if they do manage to take back control of the country for We The People in 8-10 years, there might not be much of a country left.

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February 26th, 2012, 2:25 am
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Post Re: Twain explains why ideaologues cannot understand each ot
I hit post earlier because I didn't want to get logged out like I did a few days ago and it takes me forever to type my thoughts out.

So what will this third party look like? Since I'm a member of the Tea Party, we'll begin there. The Tea Party believes in less taxes, less spending, less government, less debt, more freedom, and abiding by the Constitution. What's not to love about that? While the media and the Dems spin us as the far right wing of the Republican Party, that is not true. While probably 75% of the Tea Party are Republicans, there are many Libertarians, Independents, and Blue Dog Democrats who have joined us, as well. It is a movement about We The People taking our government back from special interests and the status quo in Washington. And it should come as no surprise that it's the Dems, their media allies, and the Republican Establishment who have demonized, villified, discredited, and marginalized us. It's because they fear us. And they will attempt to do the same thing to any 3rd party that attempts to form.

I previously listed the basic tenets of the Tea Party platform, but there are hundreds of different groups throughout the country who have added to it. There is no national organization, so each individual group is free to choose from the bottom up which issues they wish to advocate for. This can create problems though. For instance, the vast majority of Tea Partiers support a strong national defense, as do I, but that tends to turn off some Libertarians. Most also support strong illegal immigration laws, but that alienates some others. After that, there are various social issues, but I, along with many others attempt to muzzle it. No matter what new party is formed, everybody won't agree on everything and there will be desenters.

Before I go any further, I should tell you that the Tea Party had a plan to take over the Republican Party since that was more realistic than starting a third party. That plan has been underway for two years and has been effective, but the realists amongst us know that it would take atleast a decade to complete, if ever. It involved taking over local precincts and becoming delegates as a stepping stone to higher offices. However, the Establishment caught onto the plan and is attempting to withold funds and block any candidates unwilling to continue the status quo. It's a mess and is why the option of creating a third party has become more palatable in spite of the negative consequences which might ensue because of it.

So, where do we go from here? Would a majority of Americans sign on with the Tea Party movement or do we need something else entirely? Of course, the media has already demonized the Tea Party, so it would have to be called something else, but what? And would the tenet principles remain the same or would they have to be drastically altered? If the platform consists of getting the government out of our daily lives, I'm sure that 20 million of my friends would sign on, but we would have to draw upon those special interests that I mentioned above in order to acheive a majority. And the question remains, if we cater to the special interests in order to win elections, wouldn't we become what we are supposedly fighting against?

If anyone has a solution to this problem, I'm all ears. I can give you 20 million votes. Can you give me another 30 million without sacrificing your principles? That is the question.

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February 26th, 2012, 3:31 am
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