Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pm Posts: 3056 Location: Elkhart, In.
Re: US Burns Korans; Muslims Go Nuts!
I'm sorry, but isn't basing an entire religion on the actions of a few sinful men a little wrong?
Does that mean that all white men are bad, because some evil white men created a 3 initial group that terrorised other nationalities?
You can't lump the few in with the whole and call it the whole, not only is it unfair, but it's wrong.
This has got to be the most ACCURATE description I've ever heard.
"I put no stock in religion. By the word religion I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called the will of God. I've seen too much religion in the eyes of too many murderers. Holiness is in right action, and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness. What God desires is here [points to Balian's head] and here [points to Balian's heart] and what you decide to do every day you will be a good man...or not."
There is a different type of believers that are starting to emerge, or have emerged that believe in this way. Christianity is all about the relationship. Pablo, you and I have discussed this many times. As a Born again Christian, I don't want to introduce anyone to a religion. I don't want you to come to my church, I don't want you to learn to sit in a pew and read some words, and sing some songs. What I DO want to do is introduce you to a man, who changed my life. If we lived closer, or had the opportunity, I could share with you who I was before, and who I am now. It's my story, it's disgusting, and sinful, and regrettable in many ways. I've inflicted a lot of hurt, and even sampled the many lusts of the flesh, but when I was allowed to see the truth of my actions, and the pathway that I was on, I repented and said no more. I've prayed and asked to be a man like King David, a man after God's own heart. Am I good at it, NO! But I still try.
So please keep in mind, and or filter, that fallen men make sinful choices, and it's really easy to point a finger and hiss, especially when that man claims to be a Christian. But don't just laugh and ridicule the man because he fell, see if he get's back up and repents (turns away) from his sin. Does he become different, does he do different? If you see that, then you know he's for real, but if you don't you know he's still fallen.
Like I said in another thread, don't judge the man, inspect his fruit.
Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pm Posts: 10398 Location: Where ever I'm at now
Re: US Burns Korans; Muslims Go Nuts!
First of all, like it or not, agree with it or not, this country WAS founded on Christian PRINCIPLES. Not Christianity itself, but the principles behind it. Numerous, numerous letters from the Founding Fathers are evidence of that.
Second, slavery and Christianity had NOTHING to do with each other. Slavers weren't running around in the forests of Africa in the name of God. They were taking slaves in the name of progress. Like it or not, that's what it was about. It was about progressing this nation into the forefront of global trade via tobacco and cotton crops. At the time the slaves were being brought over, America was barely a spot on the global map. There was more land than people, and slavery was the one thing that the Dutch born settlers knew about, and they learned it from the Ethiopians.
Third, what has happened within the Catholic church with the priests is terrible. Make no mistake, a church is no different than any other company or political organization. They will deny and cover up anything that they know can put them in a bad light. However, to compare that to what Muslims have done in the name of their religion is ridiculous in the extreme. I don't condone what the church or those priests have done. But those individual priests don't represent the majority of Christians. I'm sorry to say, but the violent Muslims and their reactions over book burnings (the Quran is JUST A F***ING BOOK!), cartoons, teddy bears named "Mohammed" and other such nonsense is their way of forcing their beliefs on everyone else, and really hasn't been condemned by anyone of note within their community. As a matter of fact, many of the protests and killings are ENDORSED by some of their imams.
Stop comparing things done by Christians in AGES past to what the Muslims are doing today. Because let's face it, what the Muslims are doing today is no different than what they've been doing since the inception of that radical religion.
_________________ I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.
February 25th, 2012, 1:21 pm
Commissioner of the NFL – Roger Goodell
Joined: August 7th, 2004, 4:47 am Posts: 10980 Location: Sterling Heights, MI
Re: US Burns Korans; Muslims Go Nuts!
Oops, more killings:
......American officers killed in Afghan Interior Ministry By Hamid Shalizi and Amie Ferris-Rotman | Reuters – 17 mins ago....
American officers were shot dead at close range in Afghanistan's Interior Ministry on Saturday, a U.S. official said, as rage gripped the country for a fifth day over the burning of the Muslim holy book at a NATO base.
NATO recalled all staff working at ministries in the Afghan capital, Kabul, following the attack, with its top commander in Afghanistan calling the killer a coward.
"For obvious force protection reasons, I have also taken immediate measures to recall all other ISAF (NATO's International Security Assistance Force) personnel working in ministries in and around Kabul," said General John Allen, adding that the attacker's actions "will not go unanswered."
The two American officers, advisers to the ministry, were fired on at close range, a U.S. official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.
U.S. officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, said they did not know the identity of the shooter and that there was no known witness to the crime.
The Taliban claimed responsibility for the shootings, which it said were in retaliation for the desecration of copies of the Koran by foreign troops at NATO's Bagram air base. Afghan security sources said the two dead were a U.S. colonel and major with NATO forces.
U.S. President Barack Obama has sent a letter to his Afghan counterpart, Hamid Karzai, apologizing for what Washington says was the unintentional burning of the Korans, after Afghan laborers found charred copies while collecting rubbish.
The Koran burnings ignited anti-Western fury. Thousands have taken to the streets and at least 27 people have been killed in the protests. Two American soldiers were shot to death on Thursday by an Afghan national army soldier who joined the rallies.
Obama spoke with Allen after Saturday's shootings and the White House said the president supported the steps taken to protect U.S. service members in Afghanistan.
"We welcome President Karzai's statement this morning encouraging peaceful expressions and his call for dialogue and calm," the White House said in a statement. "The United States remains committed to a partnership with the government and people of Afghanistan."
HIGH SECURITY CLEARANCE
An Afghan security source said the American officers killed on Saturday had been found dead with gunshot wounds deep inside the heavily fortified Interior Ministry.
"There is CCTV (closed-circuit television) there and special locks. The killer would have had to have the highest security (clearance) to get to the room where they were killed," the source told Reuters.
U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta called on the Afghan government on Saturday to take decisive action to protect NATO forces and the curtail violence sweeping the country.
Afghan Defense Minister Abdul Rahim Wardak, in a phone call with Panetta, apologized and said Karzai was assembling religious leaders, parliamentarians, justices of the Supreme Court, and others in an effort to curb violence, according to a Pentagon description of the conversation.
In Kabul, Allen met with Afghan Interior Minister Bismillah Mohammadi, who pledged his complete cooperation with the investigation, the Pentagon said.
ISAF declined to say if the shooter was a member of the Afghan security forces.
If the shootings are linked to Afghan forces, new questions will arise about Taliban infiltration as well as their ability to secure Afghanistan once NATO combat forces withdraw in 2014.
NATO is supposed to be moving away from a combat role to an advise-and-assist mission as early as next year. That will require NATO to place more staff in ministries.
"The fact that NATO is recalling staff from ministries suggests they are worried about a deep malaise in the Afghan security forces, that they expect more of these attacks," said Kamran Bokhari at STRATFOR global intelligence firm.
The Koran burnings have underscored the deep cultural mistrust between Afghans and the foreign troops who invaded a decade ago to oust the Taliban from power.
Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid said in a statement four high-ranking Americans had been killed. The Islamist group often exaggerates and inflates claims of casualties.
"The attack came from the mujahideen of the Islamic Emirate in revenge for the American soldiers' repeated desecration of our religion, especially the latest intentional incident in the Bagram airfield which they burnt Korans," Mujahid said, using another name the group calls itself.
An Afghan security source said the shooting of the two Americans in the Interior Ministry could be connected to the burning of the Korans.
Muslims consider the Koran to be the literal word of God and treat each copy with deep reverence. Desecration is considered one of the worst forms of blasphemy.
Hundreds of people tried to overrun a compound in the northern Kunduz province housing workers from the U.N. Assistance Mission in Afghanistan, but were held back by police, Interior Ministry spokesman Sediq Sediqqi said.
In April last year, protesters angry about the burning of Korans by an obscure pastor in the United States stormed a U.N. compound in northern Balkh province, killing seven people.
The protests could dent plans for a strategic pact that Washington is considering with Kabul that would allow a sharply reduced number of Western troops to stay in the country well beyond their combat exit deadline.
There have been several instances of Afghan troops and forces turning on NATO troops. NATO servicemen and staff live and work primarily at their bases but also frequent the barricaded Afghan ministries dotted around Kabul on official business.
(Additional reporting by Mirwais Harooni in Kabul, Phil Stewart and Matt Spetalnick in Washington, Writing by Amie Ferris-Rotman; Editing by Michael Georgy and Bill Trott)
Wags, do you finally see what I mean by a World Apology Tour? We're bad for burning a book, but there's no problem with killing Americans. Wake up, dude.
February 26th, 2012, 4:44 am
Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 am Posts: 12482
Re: US Burns Korans; Muslims Go Nuts!
Wags, you really disagree that our founding fathers had Christian roots, and that their Christianity had a role in shaping our legal system?
I agree that our Founding Fathers had morals and principles, however I can't agree that they were all "Christian". I wasn't alive then (at least not that I can recall) therefore I have to go off of reports & documents from historians and they state that the majority of our FF were Deists, though some where Christian. I know we've had the discussion here before, but just because someone has morals does NOT mean they have to be Christian; non-Christians has morals as well.
Regarding the "law" supporting otherwise immoral ends, it's ridiculous to say to that Christianity speaks through the law, just because the law was founded, in part on Christianity. Just as I mentioned to TDJ, once something becomes law it is nothing more than law. It's not an endorsement of a particular religion and it's not an endorsement of a particular moral code. It's nothing more than a legislated code that the soceity has chosen to live by. Religion isn't the only aspect of society that has shaped our laws. Necessity, twisted societal ends, financial concerns, medical concerns, etc. have all had roles in shaping our laws.
I was attempting, albeit poorly, to show a hypothetical interpretation. Obviously I was the only one to see my attempt as everyone that responded to it made their assumption according to their own interpretations.
Lately you've shown yourself to be a closed-minded, nitpicky, whiny, typical Liberal that uses bullsh!t talking points with little to no rationality behind them, that really have no point whatsoever, other than to cast dispersions on numerous things not Liberal at all costs with no other end. It's ridiculous.
I've attempted to generate a real discussion that IMO our Country needs to have. I have posted opposing stances / stories / etc for this specific purpose. I find it mildly amazing and down right sad that the immediate response from a couple posters here is to go off the depend and start throwing insults. Does calling someone ignorant, stupid or other names somehow make you feel better? or perhaps feel like a bigger person? Sorry, I just don't understand why people feel the need to denigrate others and discount their views. The Twain thread is a PERFECT example and explanation for many of the responses found here lately. I could care less how you feel about me as a person, however if you disagree with my words / stance / posting, then please try to present opposing arguments in an intelligent manner. Would your consistent name calling work while you're trying a case in court? I tend to think not, then again I don't have much experience being in court....
From calling Fox out for "lying" about a story, or accusing them of poor fact checking after reporting the nearest major metropolis as a location for an event, to this nonsense here you've been ridiculous lately.
Again, just picking and choosing my words. Perhaps if you go back and actually READ my posts, you would understand that it was an EXAMPLE of how ALL MEDIA isn't doing its job. Was it an article from Fox? Yes it was. Perhaps I should've posted examples from each and every media source around, would that have made you happy? Somehow I think not. Some people just feel the need to argue I guess.