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 Ohio School Shooting 
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Post Ohio School Shooting
First, I'd like to wish the best for the families of the two (so far) victims as well as to the other 3 that were wounded.

The first thing I thought when I saw the story unfolding yesterday was that it was going to be used as a tool somehow, and it didn't take long. The first obvious tool is for the anti-gun crowd, even though they're going to get killed on the issue immediately because he was only 17 and it would have been illegal for him to buy a gun. It proves that criminals don't obey the laws and any amount of gun laws wouldn't have prevented this.

But that isn't the worst of it. He was immediately reported as a "bullied individual" by the media. With bullying being on a national platform right now, it didn't take long for the media to toss this into that pile. The second victim was dating the shooter's ex-girlfriend. Sounds more like jealousy than being bullied. Even his friends say he went into a goth phase, so it wasn't that he was being picked on that he lost friends, he just withdrew from them. Why are the media so quick to throw people into categories to push an agenda?

Also, he posted on twitter the day before he acted as well as posted things on facebook two months prior and nothing was done. No friends came forward, or if they did, the school officials didn't react. This seems more like a failure by those around him to identify the problem. Its being reported that he was being transfered to a alternative school for trouble kids, so its not like this was an isolated incident. Was this negligence or just the failure of those who were supposed to be watching out for him and the rest of the students?


February 28th, 2012, 11:05 am
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Post Re: Ohio School Shooting
njroar wrote:
Was this negligence or just the failure of those who were supposed to be watching out for him and the rest of the students?


Who was supposed to be "watching out for him"? The schools aren't out there monitoring their students Facebook or Twitter accouts. Unfortunately, I know way too many parent who also don't monitor their kids accounts.

If you are a parent who doesn't know every social media account your child is on and every password for those accounts and monitors them regularly (like daily) - you are enabling anything your child does wrong. BTW - it just doesn't stop with social media either.

I have a nephew who posted a few disturbing things on FB and found out his parents don't even have FB accounts (and his mom is a teacher). I live 10 hours away and knew he was in jail and they had no idea. Should come as no surprise that he became a dad at 16.

Time to step up parents, it is your job!

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February 28th, 2012, 11:16 am
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Post Re: Ohio School Shooting
I meant the parents. The school was already aware of his issues, otherwise he wouldn't be scheduled to go to an alternative school.


February 28th, 2012, 11:23 am
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Post Re: Ohio School Shooting
Pablo wrote:
njroar wrote:
Was this negligence or just the failure of those who were supposed to be watching out for him and the rest of the students?


Who was supposed to be "watching out for him"? The schools aren't out there monitoring their students Facebook or Twitter accouts. Unfortunately, I know way too many parent who also don't monitor their kids accounts.

If you are a parent who doesn't know every social media account your child is on and every password for those accounts and monitors them regularly (like daily) - you are enabling anything your child does wrong. BTW - it just doesn't stop with social media either.

I have a nephew who posted a few disturbing things on FB and found out his parents don't even have FB accounts (and his mom is a teacher). I live 10 hours away and knew he was in jail and they had no idea. Should come as no surprise that he became a dad at 16.

Time to step up parents, it is your job!


Pablo, I agree that parents have to do everything within their power to stay on top of and understand who their children are friends with, what social media they are members of, what they post, etc. But that's nearly impossible. Kids can have alternate IDs and be posting, and the parents may not be any the wiser.

However, I do agree that parents now want to be their kids friend instead of their parent. That's crap. You aren't there to be your childs friend, you are there to tell them things their friends would likely never tell them. You are there to be a guide, a mentor, and at times a judge and jury. If the kids don't like it, that's just tough.

However, it isn't always negligence by parents that leads to a child or teenager to become "troubled". People are hard wired at birth. Their upbringing and environment can modify some things one way or another to a certain degree. However, I am convinced that most every person is predisposed to certain behavior patterns, and outside of a life altering incident, that pattern will not change too much. Some psychologists will state otherwise, but they often state things that are completely out of whack. I have no trust in psychologists, psychiatrists, etc., because it seems they will never place blame on their clients, but instead place the blame elsewhere and never enforce accountability in their paying patients.

Being "goth" is a phase many kids go through. Being a killer is not a "phase".

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February 28th, 2012, 2:42 pm
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Post Re: Ohio School Shooting
Parents aren't the wiser because they are too damn lazy. Here is an idea, you put limits on your kids accounts. Any variation from that and they lose all privledges to use social media. Parents simply don't try to stay on top of things, "computers/technology is too hard". Know what, your web presence is tracked by your history. Hey kid, you mess with the computers history and you lose all computer privledges.

In this case, it sounds like he gave some serious indications that something was wrong - when you post "“Die, all of you” - well what more do you need. This was his regular FB account, there for everyone to see including his family.

I agree that some kids may be "hard wired" to be troubled. In these cases you better really know everything going on in that kids life.

For me, it starts in the home.

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February 28th, 2012, 3:29 pm
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Post Re: Ohio School Shooting
Right but keep in mind that he was living with his grandparents, so there is an even larger disconnect between guardian and technology.

This is why I tell people don't piss people off because you don't know what they are capable of. Someone cuts you off in traffic, smile and let it go. You never know when it's a lunatic waiting for someone to get in their face. But that in no way justifies what happened.


February 28th, 2012, 3:51 pm
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Post Re: Ohio School Shooting
A third victim died. The other 2 were listed as stable. It was announced that he stole the .22 pistol from his Uncle, so it seems that family wasn't paying much attention overall. No idea if the uncle was living in the same house or not. All mine stay locked up whenever children are in the house.

Va Tech was the school's negligence for not reporting his mental issues to the proper agencies so he was allowed to legally buy a gun. This kid was being transferred to an alternative school for drug, behavior issues or something else, so its not like people weren't aware that something wasn't right. Did the school ever talk to his guardians about this?

I'm just disappointed in the journalists that immediately jumped on the gun issue and those that immediately linked it to the bullying issue before knowing any of the facts. Its a tragic story in its own rights, and to use it to spearhead agenda reporting just gets under my skin.


February 28th, 2012, 4:02 pm
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Post Re: Ohio School Shooting
njroar wrote:

I'm just disappointed in the journalists that immediately jumped on the gun issue and those that immediately linked it to the bullying issue before knowing any of the facts. Its a tragic story in its own rights, and to use it to spearhead agenda reporting just gets under my skin.


I completely agree with this. The media is always trying to make it into an issue it's not when a firearm is involved. If the kid was bullied, then the issue is did the kid report it? If so, was anything done about it? If not, why not? If the kid didn't report it, then one must assume that for some reason he wasn't comfortable reporting it.

Whatever the case, the issue here is violence in schools...any violence. Whether it be bullying, a fight in the parking lot, or whatever. But for God's sake, quit trying to place blame where it doesn't belong and coming up with lame excuses for why this happened, and how this boys accountability for his actions is anything less than 100% (not directed at you njroar, just anyone looking for a reason to blame someone else).

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February 28th, 2012, 4:58 pm
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Post Re: Ohio School Shooting
Pablo wrote:
Parents aren't the wiser because they are too damn lazy. Here is an idea, you put limits on your kids accounts. Any variation from that and they lose all privledges to use social media. Parents simply don't try to stay on top of things, "computers/technology is too hard". Know what, your web presence is tracked by your history. Hey kid, you mess with the computers history and you lose all computer privledges.

In this case, it sounds like he gave some serious indications that something was wrong - when you post "“Die, all of you” - well what more do you need. This was his regular FB account, there for everyone to see including his family.

I agree that some kids may be "hard wired" to be troubled. In these cases you better really know everything going on in that kids life.

For me, it starts in the home.


I agree. But Pablo, you are going to find as your kids grow up it's not as easy as it sounds. Trust me, I know. I have a 22 year old son, his mother and I are divorced. How does a parent keep track of that in those circumstances? It's not all sunshine and roses, and not all cases can be treated exactly the same. Raising a child is like holding a tube of toothpaste, you squeeze too tight and the cap pops off and you lose everything. There are kids who go off the deepend that are raised by good parents, there are kids who grow up to be model citizens who had lousy parents. There's a ton of gray area involved. Staying on top of their accounts is a great idea, up and until that child feels stifled and finds other ways to get onto those sites....at a friends house, etc.

I agree, there were telltale signs on this kid. I agree that with minimal observation and communication this could have been noticed and possibly avoided. Unfortunately, we'll never know.

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February 28th, 2012, 5:05 pm
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Post Re: Ohio School Shooting
ok, more info is coming out...

He lived with grandparents, his parents were divorced, his father has multiple arrests for violence against women and the social workers in the town knew the family "very well." I agree 100% that the blame is on the kid, especially now that its been released that the group he shot was his former clique of friends and he was heartbroken over his gf dumping him and going out with the friend, who he shot and killed. But with him being placed in an alternative school, the family history with the social workers as well as his own previous history of juvenile court, he should have been more closely monitored.


February 28th, 2012, 5:13 pm
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Post Re: Ohio School Shooting
I blame society, honestly.

It use to be kids that had no support system were tougher, had a bit of an edge, but they generally made it and sometimes better than their counterparts. They weren't coddled. They had to "do for themselves." Now kids that have no support system are handed everything. They get REWARDED for being weird in X way (whether it's too violent, too shy, to "weird," etc. they've given MORE people and a BIGGER support system the more phucked up you are). IMO it doesn't help the kid AT ALL. It use to be that you had to work for your support system. If you wanted a bigger support system you got a job, with your job you'd hook up a couple of kids at school and get some friends, you'd get a partial support system from your boss, and you got by. Now you get weirder and weirder, knowing all the while you're going to get more and more counselors, psychologists and other people that "take an interest in you."


February 28th, 2012, 5:44 pm
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Post Re: Ohio School Shooting
m2karateman wrote:
Pablo wrote:
Parents aren't the wiser because they are too damn lazy. Here is an idea, you put limits on your kids accounts. Any variation from that and they lose all privledges to use social media. Parents simply don't try to stay on top of things, "computers/technology is too hard". Know what, your web presence is tracked by your history. Hey kid, you mess with the computers history and you lose all computer privledges.

In this case, it sounds like he gave some serious indications that something was wrong - when you post "“Die, all of you” - well what more do you need. This was his regular FB account, there for everyone to see including his family.

I agree that some kids may be "hard wired" to be troubled. In these cases you better really know everything going on in that kids life.

For me, it starts in the home.


I agree. But Pablo, you are going to find as your kids grow up it's not as easy as it sounds. Trust me, I know. I have a 22 year old son, his mother and I are divorced. How does a parent keep track of that in those circumstances? It's not all sunshine and roses, and not all cases can be treated exactly the same. Raising a child is like holding a tube of toothpaste, you squeeze too tight and the cap pops off and you lose everything. There are kids who go off the deepend that are raised by good parents, there are kids who grow up to be model citizens who had lousy parents. There's a ton of gray area involved. Staying on top of their accounts is a great idea, up and until that child feels stifled and finds other ways to get onto those sites....at a friends house, etc.

I agree, there were telltale signs on this kid. I agree that with minimal observation and communication this could have been noticed and possibly avoided. Unfortunately, we'll never know.


I agree, it is hard. As a parent I just see so many other parents that are so involved in their own lives, and not the lives of there kids, it makes me sick. And honestly M2K, most divorced parents are more involved with their kids lives than those of married couples. They seem to really cherish the time with their children and maximize every second of it, they also seem to really want to know what is going on in their lives.

There will still be kids who fall through the cracks, even with the most attentative of parents no doubt.

As for WJB, society is certainly coddling kids. When I hire a kid out of college it seems the first time I give even constructive criticism they are shocked and can't handle it. Even in sports, you can not win a game all season and still win a trophy. Growing up, there was only ever one trophy and I rarely got one. I'm sorry, but there is always a winner and loser in life. Every night before bed we have a competition in our house (we battle with beyblades if anyone knows what those are). Every night we have a winner, and three losers. And every night, all of us losers have to shake the hand of the winner and acknowlege their victory.

I will also say, eveything is more fragmented now to WJBs point. In the old day we had one TV, it wasn't HD, and we had 3 channels (4 in Detroit if you counted that crappy Canadian station we picked up). There was one brand for anything, and everyone saw the same ad. Now everything is so fragmented, splintered, and customized, that kids today will think the world revolves around their every want - exactly the way they want it. You are labeling it being "weird", but differences are certainly accentuated more than ever.

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February 28th, 2012, 6:49 pm
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Post Re: Ohio School Shooting
What is wrong with the world these days?

Im not perfect i understand. But I do feel like a better person by simply opening a door for someone. Nodding and saying hi even to a stranger. Little things like that. And I find it very wrong that probably half the world doesnt feel the same way.

What Im trying to say, is how is it really possible that a person can shoot and kill someone, and think it is ***** ok??!?! If I bump into someone accidentally at Meijer, I will stop and apologize. At the same time, people are out there ending other peoples LIVES.

I JUST DONT UNDERSTAND.

My thoughts are also out to the families, and not just these specific ones. But ones around the world who lose a family member do to stupidity of another person.

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February 28th, 2012, 9:38 pm
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Post Re: Ohio School Shooting
I agree with most everything being said here. And once again, I blame psychologists and psychiatrists above all. People started listening to these idiots and acting out what they've said. Self esteem issues...that's why we give trophies to losers, allow kids who won't practice hard equal playing time to those kids who give their all, coddle kids that act like complete idiots, and have parents who DEMAND that their kids get treated as such. In our karate classes, I see it all the time. "How come Tommy is still a purple belt, but Joseph started after him and is already a green belt?". More often than not, I turn it on the parents, and ask them if their child is practicing at home and are they watching them. 90% of the time the parents tell a bare faced lie right off the bat. "Yes, he practices every night." Then I HAMMER the parents for first lying to me, and then for not ensuring that their kids take 10 minutes to just review their stuff for their next rank. I have to often tell them that I can't teach their kid in two hours a week of classes what they should be enforcing all the other hours of the week.

What's even more amazing is the parents that bring their kids in and expect us to fix their "discipline issues". I always tell them, that's not what we're here for. That's your job. We can create an air of discipline in the dojo, demand respect from the kids and show them their due respect when they EARN it. It won't come automatically. And we also tell them, if you don't enforce the discipline we are doing here at home, then things simply aren't going to work.

It does start at home Pablo. You are absolutely right about that. Unfortunately, you are also right about those parents who are so involved in their own agendas they fail to take a more active part in their childs daily life. Today people expect TV, video games and computers to be the baby sitters. It's really quite sickening. And those parents who act that way aren't making life any easier for those of us who don't believe in that sort of thing.

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February 28th, 2012, 10:38 pm
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Post Re: Ohio School Shooting
Wait, he went through a goth phase? That must mean it's Marylin Manson or Cradle of Filth's fault right? I'm actually shocked no one has blamed some musician yet. I'm sure they will sooner or later, seems every time a school shooting happens some musician gets the blame because the teen listened to their music....despite of course the fact that the music never endorses or encourages violence in any way.

Goes back to what you were saying about jumping on the gun issue, people are always so quick to take advantage of situations...and even quicker to reflect blame.

We may be the self proclaimed "greatest country in the world" but when it comes to dealing with/raising children, we've sunk to the bottom of the barrel. No disputing it whatsoever, and unfortunately I don't see the situation being rectified anytime soon...it's only getting worse and will continue to do so.

...Hell half the time parents aren't even legally aloud to be parents anymore. It honestly scares me away from having children some day, I want to...but I'm afraid if I try to raise them the way I consider to be the right way, and actually discipline them when it's deserved I'll be frowned upon by society or even charged in our court system for "Child Abuse"...this country has become seriously ****** up in that department.


February 28th, 2012, 11:34 pm
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