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 shout out from indy 
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Post Re: shout out from indy
kdsberman wrote:
DJ-B wrote:
Why do you think Barron can't cover?

I agree.

And also wjb, why on earth do u mention your mike Adams feelings in every thread? And why is it that u are 100% sure we will draft him? Did u have lunch with mayhew the other day and discuss this? And what makes u think Adams will even be there at 23?



It has more to do with what I perceive to be the off-season strategy of Mayhew, and carryover perceptions of the previous regime. I think that Mayhew honestly believes that now is the perfect time to part with Jeff Backus, and that we're officially "all-in" in signing Gaither or drafting his replacement. I don't think that we're going to be able to sign Gaither, and I think Martin is going to be gone. What's that stick us with? Mike Adams!!!

There have also been little snippets and what I would call "fan prep" that has suggested that Mike Adams is going to be the pick.


March 8th, 2012, 6:13 pm
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Post Re: shout out from indy
In a year where there was a healthy center class, Jones would probably be a 4-5th round pick. Most scouting reports I see on him say he's on the ground too much. We've already got one of those. I'm just not buying the Mike Adams being projected to the Lions, by the mock draft boards. The boards that we see on fans sights don't necessarily reflect the way the Pro teams see it.


March 8th, 2012, 6:25 pm
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Post Re: shout out from indy
liontrax wrote:
In a year where there was a healthy center class, Jones would probably be a 4-5th round pick. Most scouting reports I see on him say he's on the ground too much. We've already got one of those. I'm just not buying the Mike Adams being projected to the Lions, by the mock draft boards. The boards that we see on fans sights don't necessarily reflect the way the Pro teams see it.


Jones is still stronger, and 40lbs heavier than Raiola. I'll take an upgrade where we can get one. I really don't want to draft and start a rookie OC next year, and I really don't want to pay Raiola the $4 million dollars he's due next year.

I really don't want Molk. IMO he's a stronger Riaola clone (smaller, shorter guy with shorter arms). Brewster is alright, but I see him as more of a late round project.

It's not "mock draft sites" or "fan" sites that trouble me regarding Adam's talk. It's the Lions main page, and their actions toward Backus/Gaither that have me worried.


March 8th, 2012, 6:31 pm
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Post Re: shout out from indy
wjb21ndtown wrote:
liontrax wrote:
In a year where there was a healthy center class, Jones would probably be a 4-5th round pick. Most scouting reports I see on him say he's on the ground too much. We've already got one of those. I'm just not buying the Mike Adams being projected to the Lions, by the mock draft boards. The boards that we see on fans sights don't necessarily reflect the way the Pro teams see it.


Jones is still stronger, and 40lbs heavier than Raiola. I'll take an upgrade where we can get one. I really don't want to draft and start a rookie OC next year, and I really don't want to pay Raiola the $4 million dollars he's due next year.

I really don't want Molk. IMO he's a stronger Riaola clone (smaller, shorter guy with shorter arms). Brewster is alright, but I see him as more of a late round project.

It's not "mock draft sites" or "fan" sites that trouble me regarding Adam's talk. It's the Lions main page, and their actions toward Backus/Gaither that have me worried.

I agree with what u said about Molk. However, I honestly don't even believe Adams will even be there when we pick. Or if a team really thinks the lions want Adams they might trade ahead of us. Either way, I don't see Adams in a lions jersey next year.

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March 8th, 2012, 6:45 pm
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Post Re: shout out from indy
Lets put one thing to bed.the lions do not like adams at all.the guy they do like is bob massie and like him in the middle rds.and for barron not being able to cover,who are you watching barron can do it all well.


March 9th, 2012, 12:46 am
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Post Re: shout out from indy
allenslions wrote:
Lets put one thing to bed.the lions do not like adams at all.the guy they do like is bob massie and like him in the middle rds.and for barron not being able to cover,who are you watching barron can do it all well.


Thank You! Well said.

Bob Massie..Ill have to check him out.


4 days and counting...and EVERYTHING changes.

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March 9th, 2012, 6:00 am
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Post Re: shout out from indy
kdsberman wrote:
allenslions wrote:
Lets put one thing to bed.the lions do not like adams at all.the guy they do like is bob massie and like him in the middle rds.and for barron not being able to cover,who are you watching barron can do it all well.


Thank You! Well said.

Bob Massie..Ill have to check him out.


4 days and counting...and EVERYTHING changes.



Barron being considered the top Safety prospect will probably be long gone by 23. Massie is an intriguing prospect.

Bobbie Massie 6-6, 316 Mississippi
From ProFootballWeekly.com
Big, long-armed tackle who is fairly light on his feet, plays with balance and is rarely beat. Has a balanced skill set, showed a consistent compete level against SEC competition and is strong and athletic enough to play either side.


March 9th, 2012, 9:12 am
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Post Re: shout out from indy
there's no guarantee Barron will be "long gone" by the time the Lions pick. It's a definite possibility, but safeties don't jump off the board in the first round like quarterbacks, left tackles or pass rushers.

Bobbie Massie is a really good prospect, but I don't see him as a left tackle, and I don't think he makes it out of round two...not even close. Massie is a guard/tackle, which means he's strictly right tackle. I don't think he'll be there when the Lions pick in round two anyways. The left tackle propsect I like for the second or third round pick would be Brandon Mosely. I'm not a big Zebrie Sanders fan, so I hope the Lions aren't targeting him either.

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March 9th, 2012, 10:28 am
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Post Re: shout out from indy
Just thinking out loud, with the current rankings on several big boards that I refer to, these could be potentials for the Lions selection at 23.

Mark Barron-SS- Does he fall this far being the top rated Safety in the draft?

Cordy Glenn-G/T- I doubt he will be there because of the premium placed on lineman with his size and versatility.

Janoris Jenkins-CB- Think someone might snatch him before 23, sure black flags but it's hard to deny the talent.

Stephon Gilmore-CB- He seems to be ascending and has good size and upside to develop.

Donta' Hightower-LB- Don't think he is rated this high, and don't know if he even fits the Lions scheme, but if they trade down, just a thought.

Stephen Hill-WR- An ascending talent with alot of upside. The only reason I list him is Mayhew goes BPA with this 1st pick, and we need a 4th receiver.

The thing is several higher ranked players could fall by draft day, happened last year when we got Fairley. What if Coples, Kuechly or DeCastro slide? Could happen.


March 9th, 2012, 11:03 am
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Post Re: shout out from indy
m2karateman wrote:
there's no guarantee Barron will be "long gone" by the time the Lions pick. It's a definite possibility, but safeties don't jump off the board in the first round like quarterbacks, left tackles or pass rushers.

Bobbie Massie is a really good prospect, but I don't see him as a left tackle, and I don't think he makes it out of round two...not even close. Massie is a guard/tackle, which means he's strictly right tackle. I don't think he'll be there when the Lions pick in round two anyways. The left tackle propsect I like for the second or third round pick would be Brandon Mosely. I'm not a big Zebrie Sanders fan, so I hope the Lions aren't targeting him either.



The only reason I say that m2k is safeties appear to be in demand. The top safeties in free agency are being franchised. Never guaranteed Barron would be gone, just a gut feeling based on the current climate.


March 9th, 2012, 11:08 am
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Post Re: shout out from indy
liontrax wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
there's no guarantee Barron will be "long gone" by the time the Lions pick. It's a definite possibility, but safeties don't jump off the board in the first round like quarterbacks, left tackles or pass rushers.

Bobbie Massie is a really good prospect, but I don't see him as a left tackle, and I don't think he makes it out of round two...not even close. Massie is a guard/tackle, which means he's strictly right tackle. I don't think he'll be there when the Lions pick in round two anyways. The left tackle propsect I like for the second or third round pick would be Brandon Mosely. I'm not a big Zebrie Sanders fan, so I hope the Lions aren't targeting him either.



The only reason I say that m2k is safeties appear to be in demand. The top safeties in free agency are being franchised. Never guaranteed Barron would be gone, just a gut feeling based on the current climate.


I hear ya. I don't disagree with your assessment. The fact that Barron is head and shoulders above most other safety prospects doesn't help either, as teams may be willing to reach more for him rather than wait until later to get a far less capable prospect at the position.

If the Lions do miss out on Barron, there are still some safety prospects I really like. George Iloka, Markelle Martin, Harrison Smith and Janzen Jackson would be pretty solid picks. Not as pro ready as Barron, but any of those three would be an immediate upgrade over Spievey.

I also wouldn't mind if the Lions took a player like Trumaine Johnson and immediately moved him to safety to learn the position.

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March 9th, 2012, 11:26 am
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Post Re: shout out from indy
allenslions wrote:
Lets put one thing to bed.the lions do not like adams at all.the guy they do like is bob massie and like him in the middle rds.and for barron not being able to cover,who are you watching barron can do it all well.


That's somewhat comforting. So is the plan then Gaither, or Backus if we don't get Gaither? I can't imagine that we'd start a 2nd or 3rd round rookie at LT.

I hope Barron is gone. I don't know if George Iloka will be there in the 2nd or 3rd round, but he's someone I really like. He can cover well. He's played man and zone, and he can cover larger TEs or WRs. IMO he's not only a good safety, but he would also be a good pair with Delmas.

I wouldn't mind if we took a CB, but I would rather sign Tracy Porter or Aaron Ross. I think both will outplay any rookie that we put back there, and I think both are "affordable" solid players that would help us fill out our roster nicely. That said, I like Stephen Gilmore. Does anyone think that he will go above Dre Kirpatrick given their respective 40 times? (I think Dre ran a 4.51, and Gilmore ran a 4.4) I'm not big on 40 times, but CBs over 4.5 seem to drop. I wouldn't mind either player, but again, I think they're a reach at 23 (deeper drafts would put both of these guys in round 2, IMO). I'm not a big Jackson or Dennard fan. I think Jackson has a nice skill set, but he also has PacMan potential.

The only LB prospect I really like is Luke Kuechly, but again, I don't think he will be there when we pick.

For WR I like Malcom Floyd too, but I think he will go top 10. Still, I don't think we should shy away from WR. It has been said that we need a #4 WR, but we also need a #2! I think Titus Young could be a #2, but I think he's better suited to play #3. Nate is no number two. We could draft our #2, play him at #3 behind Titus for the beginning part of the season and shift him to #2 as the season progresses, cut Nate and save $2.5 million dollars signing our first round rookie. That's a nice luxury. I would be happy with Stephen Hill or Kendal Wright if he grades out as everyone says he does. Most sites I've looked at have him rated around 15th-17th best prospect in the draft.

IMO Cordy Glenn is as good as gone to Tenn. I know some people said that they may look at Konz, but IMO Glenn is more their type of player. He's huge, he's a road grader, and he's definitely worth the first round grade he's gotten. I'm still high on Konz because of the versatility that he brings to the team, but I wouldn't be disappointed if we pass on him for a WR, LB, or CB that can actually start AND be an upgrade over their predecessor. That's why I like Konz. I think our first round draft pick has to not only start, but outplay his prior counterpart, and I don't see that out of many positions in the draft. I just don't want to see us regress because of our first round draft pick.

QB, DE, DT, OLB, SS, LT/RT (unless Johnathan Martin falls) all don't seem like a good fit when you look at value/need, IMO.

I could understand Miller or Wilson at RB, but as everyone knows, I can't stand the idea of drafting a RB in the first, especially when our OL is so out of whack.


March 9th, 2012, 11:46 am
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Post Re: shout out from indy
wjb21ndtown wrote:
allenslions wrote:
Lets put one thing to bed.the lions do not like adams at all.the guy they do like is bob massie and like him in the middle rds.and for barron not being able to cover,who are you watching barron can do it all well.


That's somewhat comforting. So is the plan then Gaither, or Backus if we don't get Gaither? I can't imagine that we'd start a 2nd or 3rd round rookie at LT.


I am under the impression the Chargers are looking to sign Gaither to a contract and letting McNeill go. I don't think the Lions get a shot at Gaither.

wjb21ndtown wrote:
I hope Barron is gone. I don't know if George Iloka will be there in the 2nd or 3rd round, but he's someone I really like. He can cover well. He's played man and zone, and he can cover larger TEs or WRs. IMO he's not only a good safety, but he would also be a good pair with Delmas.


Barron is more pro ready than anyone else. He is a better all around player than anyone else at that position, which is why he's so highly rated. But personally I'd rather we not use our #23 pick on him if we can help it. I like Iloka quite a bit, as well as Markelle Martin. But Barron is a better all around guy than either of those two. I wouldn't be disappointed if we picked Barron at 23, but I'd hate to see us pass on a chance to improve the o-line to take him. I still say I'd like to see the Lions trade down a few spots in round one, then trade up some in round two to hit the "sweet spot" of value versus talent.

wjb21ndtown wrote:
I wouldn't mind if we took a CB, but I would rather sign Tracy Porter or Aaron Ross. I think both will outplay any rookie that we put back there, and I think both are "affordable" solid players that would help us fill out our roster nicely. That said, I like Stephen Gilmore. Does anyone think that he will go above Dre Kirpatrick given their respective 40 times? (I think Dre ran a 4.51, and Gilmore ran a 4.4) I'm not big on 40 times, but CBs over 4.5 seem to drop. I wouldn't mind either player, but again, I think they're a reach at 23 (deeper drafts would put both of these guys in round 2, IMO). I'm not a big Jackson or Dennard fan. I think Jackson has a nice skill set, but he also has PacMan potential.


Kirkpatrick looked very smooth in his Combine workouts. I watch their backpedal and break more than their 40 times. Gilmore was good, but not nearly as smooth as Kirkpatrick. As I recall, Dre and Claiborne were pretty close in their backpedal technique and quickness out of the backpedal to break on the ball. Fluid hip movement on turns, something I recall Gilmore didn't do nearly as well.

However, I like Gilmore's game and the physical nature he plays the position with. I just wish he was more stocky. He looked skinny to me.

Like you, I'd rather we signed one of the "second tier" CB guys in free agency. Porter is my preference, but I could live with Aaron Ross as well.

wjb21ndtown wrote:
The only LB prospect I really like is Luke Kuechly, but again, I don't think he will be there when we pick.

For WR I like Malcom Floyd too, but I think he will go top 10. Still, I don't think we should shy away from WR. It has been said that we need a #4 WR, but we also need a #2! I think Titus Young could be a #2, but I think he's better suited to play #3. Nate is no number two. We could draft our #2, play him at #3 behind Titus for the beginning part of the season and shift him to #2 as the season progresses, cut Nate and save $2.5 million dollars signing our first round rookie. That's a nice luxury. I would be happy with Stephen Hill or Kendal Wright if he grades out as everyone says he does. Most sites I've looked at have him rated around 15th-17th best prospect in the draft.


I think you mean Michael Floyd. I definitely have no interest in the Lions taking a wideout in round one. I'd rather they waited until round three or four, and picked a big guy to play the second outside spot. Tommy Steeter, Brian Quick, Juron Criner...someone like that.

wjb21ndtown wrote:
IMO Cordy Glenn is as good as gone to Tenn. I know some people said that they may look at Konz, but IMO Glenn is more their type of player. He's huge, he's a road grader, and he's definitely worth the first round grade he's gotten. I'm still high on Konz because of the versatility that he brings to the team, but I wouldn't be disappointed if we pass on him for a WR, LB, or CB that can actually start AND be an upgrade over their predecessor. That's why I like Konz. I think our first round draft pick has to not only start, but outplay his prior counterpart, and I don't see that out of many positions in the draft. I just don't want to see us regress because of our first round draft pick.


I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that Tennessee will take offensive line in round one. They have DIRE need for some pass rushers. Whitney Mercilus could be there for them at 20, and he'd be a step in the right direction for them. The Titans do need interior o-line help, but can get that in the second and third rounds. Pass rushers aren't as readily found in those rounds. If the Titans pass on Glenn, I'd be giddy if the Lions could get him. But there's no guarantee he would make it past Cinci or Cleveland, or even the Rams if they did the deal with the Browns for RG3 and ended up with pick #22.

wjb21ndtown wrote:
QB, DE, DT, OLB, SS, LT/RT (unless Johnathan Martin falls) all don't seem like a good fit when you look at value/need, IMO.


It makes me laugh when I see some of these projections showing Jon Martin falling to us. No way. Just no way. I think people are depreciating his value and thinking that DeCastro made him look better than he is. The guy is good, and is worth a top 20 pick. And with teams like Buffalo, Arizona, Chicago and possibly San Diego (if they can't sign Gaither) looking at LTs, he don't leave that neighborhood. I've even seen some mocks having Adams go ahead of Martin! They must be put out there by Buckeye fans (steensn, is that you?)

wjb21ndtown wrote:
I could understand Miller or Wilson at RB, but as everyone knows, I can't stand the idea of drafting a RB in the first, especially when our OL is so out of whack.


Agree 1000%.

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March 9th, 2012, 12:29 pm
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Post Re: shout out from indy
I definitely meant Michael Floyd. My friend Darryl makes fun of me because I've been calling him Malcom for two years. Every time UofM plays ND I call the guy Malcom. I think I picked up Malcom for a couple of weeks in F. Football and ever since he's been playing for Notre Dame!!! Ooops...


I'm with you on preferring to trade down over trading up, but I really think we need to pick near where we're at. If we trade down and miss out on someone like Gilmore to a team like the Patroits that draft more "starters" than "value" (the Patriots have been known to "reach" on a players value if they think they can come in and start from them from the get), or if we miss out on players like Gilmore, Hill, Konz all together I'd be pissed. I just don't want to end up with a bunch of "projects."

I'm with you on Jonathan Martin. IMO he's a real deal NFL ready LT, and should go top 15. Anyone that rates Mike Adams above him is completely insane. I just hope we don't get stuck with Adams as our starting LT next year. Allen's says it won't happen, I sure hope it doesn't.

I understand that Barron is more "pro-ready." He's more physically gifted and more physically mature than Iloka, but I think Iloka will be a better FS. I see Barron as a lesser Landry type - big hitter, mediocre cover guy. If we were looking to fill both safety spots (FS & SS) on this team I would prefer Barron, but we already have Delmas, who is a big hitter (when he doesn't whiff) and mediocre cover guy. Now, I wouldn't mind trading Delmas for a pick and drafting Barron, but I think that's a little far fetched. If Barron is there at 23 and we can get a 2nd for Delmas (even a late 2nd) I'd do that in a minute, but I think we all know that isn't going to happen. I think Barron is an upgrade over Delmas, but I don't think he's a good counter-part to Delmas. I just don't want both of them on the field at the same time. I would rather pair Delmas with a more natural cover guy like Iloka, or, as you mentioned draft someone like Trumaine Johnson. That said, I wouldn't want Trumaine until at least the 3rd round. He ran something like a 4.6. I don't put a ton of stock in 40 times, but there comes a point where you're just too slow to do your damn job. 4.6 is about minimal for a safety, IMO.

A late around sleeper that I would like us to look at is Ron Brooks. He's a KR/PR guy that would be a nice little project. I think he could turn into a great career nickel guy, and he's got a shot at being a great KR/PR guy with something like 4.37 speed. I'd love to get him in any round after 5.

I still like all three of the bigger Michigan WRs (Cunningham, Martin, and Hemmingway)... I really don't care what order... I'd just like to land one of them in rounds 5-7 as well. I think all three could be late round gems.


March 9th, 2012, 1:23 pm
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Post Re: shout out from indy
Ok I see the problem.the reason we neeed barron is so we can put delmas back to his natural free saafety position.I myself think if barron is off the board detroit should trade down as there is aalot of players in the second And 3rd rd with equal talent levels to who. Would still be there in tthe first.


March 9th, 2012, 5:38 pm
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