View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently July 30th, 2014, 9:16 am



Reply to topic  [ 49 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 Gorilla genome could hold key to the human condition 
Author Message
Modmin Dude
User avatar

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 am
Posts: 11944
Post Re: Gorilla genome could hold key to the human condition
Image

//sorry couldn't resist :cheers:

_________________
Quote:
Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....


March 8th, 2012, 3:50 pm
Profile
Online
Player of the Year - Defense

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pm
Posts: 2625
Post Re: Gorilla genome could hold key to the human condition
If you promise to read it, I will order you a copy of "The Blind Watchmaker" and ship it to your house. But you have to read the entire thing.


March 8th, 2012, 8:06 pm
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 am
Posts: 9377
Location: Dallas
Post Re: Gorilla genome could hold key to the human condition
more evolutionary gaps filled?

http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2012/0 ... fine-human

Christian Science Monitor wrote:
New human species discovered? How China fossils could redefine 'human'

Skulls, jawbones, and teeth originally unearthed decades ago in two caves in China are beginning to shed new light on human evolutionary history, particularly in East Asia.

The fossils were found in Longlin Cave in China's Guangxi Province in 1979 and in Maludong Cave in Yunnan Province in 1989. The bone fragments may have belonged to a previously unknown species of Homo, the same genus as modern humans.

The Red Deer Cave people, as scientists are calling them, share some features with modern humans. But they also differ, suggesting that, for much of our history, Homo sapiens in East Asia might have co-existed, and perhaps competed, with other animals that could also lay claim to the designation 'human.'

"It is clear that they share no particular affinity with either Pleistocene East Asians," say the researchers in their recent paper reported in the journal PLoS ONE. They don't seem to be related to modern East Asians either.

The Red Deer Cave people, so named for their taste for the meat of a now-extinct species of deer, had skulls that looked very different from those of all modern humans, including those alive today and those who lived in Africa 150,000 years ago. They had similar frontal lobes, but lacked a modern chin, for example.

The timing of the Red Deer Cave peoples' existence, between 11,500 and 14,500 years ago, overlapped with the presence of more modern-looking humans to the south and east. Apparently, they interbred very little with our ancestors, say the study's authors.

The Red Deer Cave people may have been related to the Denisovan people, a recently discovered and little-understood possible human relative that lived 30,000 to 50,000 years ago, suggested Chris Stringer at the Natural History Museum in London to the New Scientist. It's still unclear exactly how either the Denisovan or Red Deer Cave people might fit-in to the human evolutionary tree.

"What the discovery shows is just how complicated, how interesting, human evolutionary history was in Asia right at the end of the Ice Age," said Darren Curnoe, associate professor in the School of Biological, Earth & Environmental Sciences at the University of New South Wales and lead author of the study about the find, according to Discovery News.

The dated, described specimens help fill gaps in scientists' knowledge of human origins in East Asia. Researchers hope to further understand these ancient people's relationship with modern humans by examining DNA extracted from the fossils.

In a 1990 paper, Richard Alexander then of the Museum of Zoology at the University of Michigan summarized human's desire to know more about our evolution: "Perhaps we care partly because we know intuitively that to understand how we came to be may tell us things of value about modern human activities, especially those that perplex and frighten us."

_________________
Image
LB Tweet


March 15th, 2012, 10:16 am
Profile WWW
Post Re: Gorilla genome could hold key to the human condition
wjb21ndtown wrote:
WarEr4Christ wrote:
I knew I shoulda kept my mouth shut, but I was feeling a little frisky and so I bit. Now realizing I shoulda left well enough alone, only because it's too incendiary to discuss adequately.

However, to your point about all these Scientist doing the research, my response is that they are looking at the WRONG target. They need to adjust their sights a little higher, but then again, they could not understand the Spiritual, because well there isn't a whole lot of tangible that goes along with it. So it goes back to my opening statement.

To your other point, your wife, and kids did NOT become a part of your life, UNTIL 1. she accepted the relationship with you, 2. or you her. Prior to that she was just some other woman on this planet. But when she CHOSE YOU, and Accepted your offer, then you began to know EACH OTHER, and your relationship grew from there. You can't know God, until you accept the offer, just sayin....


The only thing that is incendiary is you professing to "know" about something that you know literally nothing about, and you admit that you know nothing about it. That's the epitome of ignorance right there, coupled with a ridiculous degree of stubbornness.

You make the claim that quite literally ALL of the Bible is "proven factual" because certain places and people have been known to exist. That because Jesus was proven to walk the planet, and that he walked the planet in places known to us, and that because he was associated with Kings that were known to live, etc. that ALL OF THE MIRACLES TOO (i.e. the miracle that we were "created") contained therein must then be factual as well. That's ridiculous.

The same can be said about evolution theory - we know that DNA exists, we know that DNA changes, we know that things change over time, so ALL OF THE MIRACLES OF EVOLUTION MUST THEN BE TRUE (i.e. the miracle that we evolved).

Man, you're blind, but yet so brilliant that you don't even need to read to know that you know something... Brilliant! Have a Guniess.



No response? Really?


March 19th, 2012, 11:56 am
QB Coach
User avatar

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pm
Posts: 3039
Location: Elkhart, In.
Post Re: Gorilla genome could hold key to the human condition
Instead of adding gasoline to the fire, and with your pointed remarks and "incendiary" comments, I made the decision to not respond. Instead I'm having a Guiness, actually prefer Killians Irish Red thank you, but you get the picture.

As I have said ALL ALONG, anyone who does not have a viable, living, breathing relationship with Jesus Christ can NOT KNOW what I'm talking about. The mind can NOT decipher nor understand the Spiritual. You can call me crazy, radical, in fact you can say just about anything, but I choose to step away, because I'd rather not get involved in a pissing contest. I know what I know based upon experience and research that you may not accept, nor understand. That doesn't make you wrong, or bad, it just means that you can't see things as I see them, and I'm cool with that.

The interesting thing about your arguments, and some of the discussions that Pablo has had, have answers but they don't meet the criteria of modern thought, so they are dismissed as ballyhoo. If you have questions take the time to check it out.

http://www.answersingensis.com

Much of the time line that is accepted as appropriate has been proven wrong. This actually came up in another thread. A Danish Scientist discovered that Electro Magnetic Rays diminish at a known, constant rate per year, and that was 100 years ago. Using that known data, he was able to reverse multiply the known rate of degradation until he reached the 100% range. Meaning that if the Earth were surrounded by a 100% complete EMF field, the affects on Earth would be too hot for sustained life. The billions and billions of years theory did not match up with that science. I gave pablo and UK a link to the pastor who taught on it, and referenced the material, but I don't know if they chased it down.

Through the Bethlehem Star Project you can actually use the known tracks of stars and planets to figure out alignments at particular dates. In reversing the course of this data, the man who did the investigation was able to determine an actual birthdate, and date of death for Jesus, he also discovered what the Star of Bethlehem was and how it was able to remain fixed for the 3 year period, USING known science.

So there are many things that utilize real science, but because they back up what the Bible has to say, they are dismissed. Because if what the Bible says is true, then there is a judgment day, and we're all going to have to answer, and well that's preposterous, and antique, and just a bunch of stories that really don't proove anything.

So again, yes I chose to ignore your comment, for the sake of not upsetting you or anyone else.

_________________
2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


March 19th, 2012, 4:00 pm
Profile
Online
Player of the Year - Defense

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pm
Posts: 2625
Post Re: Gorilla genome could hold key to the human condition
Answers in Genesis is a joke. Everything they say is an outright lie that has been refuted, or is a gross exaggeration of the truth.

Look, you can believe whatever you want to believe. You can believe you're Superman for all I care. Just don't attack the findings of scientists when you have no interest in thinking about them critically.

Do you tell your accountant he has no idea how to do your taxes? Do you tell your mechanic he has no idea how to work on your car? No, unless you yourself are a mechanic or are an accountant, or have done some research in the subject, you don't tell other people (who are experienced in the field) that they're wrong. The very definition of ignorance.

I could go line-by-line an debunk everything Answers in Genesis says, or link you to a website that does, but you of course have absolutely no interest in that.


March 19th, 2012, 8:34 pm
Profile
Online
QB Coach
User avatar

Joined: August 21st, 2005, 3:36 am
Posts: 3116
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Post Re: Gorilla genome could hold key to the human condition
Blueskies wrote:
Answers in Genesis is a joke. Everything they say is an outright lie that has been refuted, or is a gross exaggeration of the truth.

Look, you can believe whatever you want to believe. You can believe you're Superman for all I care. Just don't attack the findings of scientists when you have no interest in thinking about them critically.

Do you tell your accountant he has no idea how to do your taxes? Do you tell your mechanic he has no idea how to work on your car? No, unless you yourself are a mechanic or are an accountant, or have done some research in the subject, you don't tell other people (who are experienced in the field) that they're wrong. The very definition of ignorance.

I could go line-by-line an debunk everything Answers in Genesis says, or link you to a website that does, but you of course have absolutely no interest in that.

+1

I'll add that WarEr's statements could easily be turned around to apply to the science. For example:

Instead of: anyone who does not have a viable, living, breathing relationship with Jesus Christ can NOT KNOW what I'm talking about.

Try: anyone who does not have a viable, living, breathing relationship with evolutionary theory can NOT KNOW what I'm talking about.

Or, this statement: I know what I know based upon experience and research that you may not accept, nor understand. directly applies to the science as well. WarEr, just as you say that people who haven't taken the time to build a relationship with Jesus as you have can't understand your point of view, you not taking the time to understand the science leads you to not know what they are talking about. Thus, as Blue said, you really can't say they are wrong. Well, you can say it, but it just shows that you don't know what you're talking about.

Not trying to ridicule you or anything. Just trying to point out that your logic applies both ways.

_________________
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” - Neil deGrasse Tyson


March 19th, 2012, 10:37 pm
Profile
3rd Round Selection

Joined: October 19th, 2005, 1:24 pm
Posts: 1129
Location: Nottingham, England
Post Re: Gorilla genome could hold key to the human condition
Absolutely - I am right because I am right, and no one else can understand, is the first step on the path to radicalism. Once you are in that mindset, where dogma trumps reason, it becomes possible to justify any action.


March 20th, 2012, 8:39 am
Profile
QB Coach
User avatar

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pm
Posts: 3039
Location: Elkhart, In.
Post Re: Gorilla genome could hold key to the human condition
Since its SO obvious that we're firmly entrenched in our perspectives and NO amount of name calling is going to encourage one side or the other to see the other's perspective; I say we just sit back and see how this pans out.

It make take a few years, but when we get to where we're going, I hope all of the answers and mysteries that have kept us firmly entrenched will be revealed, and we'll have an opportunity to say, "Huh, check that out!"

I am NOT INTERESTED in getting into a pissing match with anyone, be it Pablo, Wjb, Blue, TDJ. You believe what you believe and that's fine. If I had the power to change your mind it would have been done already, to save myself the grief. The enlightenment will have to come from God himself, so in lieu of that happening, I will continue to lift you up in prayer, and leave the results up to him. So enjoy the ride! Over and out!

Ephesians 1: 16 - 19, "16 I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. 17 I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit[a] of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. 18 I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in his holy people, 19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe."

_________________
2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


March 20th, 2012, 8:42 am
Profile
Online
QB Coach
User avatar

Joined: August 21st, 2005, 3:36 am
Posts: 3116
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Post Re: Gorilla genome could hold key to the human condition
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Since its SO obvious that we're firmly entrenched in our perspectives and NO amount of name calling is going to encourage one side or the other to see the other's perspective; I say we just sit back and see how this pans out.

It make take a few years, but when we get to where we're going, I hope all of the answers and mysteries that have kept us firmly entrenched will be revealed, and we'll have an opportunity to say, "Huh, check that out!"

I am NOT INTERESTED in getting into a pissing match with anyone, be it Pablo, Wjb, Blue, TDJ. You believe what you believe and that's fine. If I had the power to change your mind it would have been done already, to save myself the grief. The enlightenment will have to come from God himself, so in lieu of that happening, I will continue to lift you up in prayer, and leave the results up to him. So enjoy the ride! Over and out!

Ephesians 1: 16 - 19, "16 I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. 17 I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit[a] of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. 18 I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in his holy people, 19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe."

I think you're still missing the point. I'm not trying to change your mind. I'm trying to get you to realize that you're doing exactly what you accuse others of. Do you see that by not reading any of the science on the subject that you're not equipped to make an informed judgement on it. It would be the same as someone else having never read the bible making statements about its accuracy. Do you recognize that?

_________________
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” - Neil deGrasse Tyson


March 20th, 2012, 8:47 am
Profile
QB Coach
User avatar

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pm
Posts: 3039
Location: Elkhart, In.
Post Re: Gorilla genome could hold key to the human condition
TDJ: I understand your point, but here is my response. Do you remember Ben Steins movie from a few years ago? He pointed out the atagonism that goes on towards Creationists, even though they've illustrated many things through Science that flies in the face of common and accepted belief?

For example: The T cell, is a very important part of the clotting process(if I remember correctly). Without it, we'd die. There are 16 steps that have to happen in sequence for that process to happen, and without it, the whole system fails. Well there has been some science done, and I will try to locate the information, that explains how this could only possibly originate from Intelligent design.

The problem that I see is that Science is looking for answers but they have not adjusted their sights high enough. Kind of like missing the forest because all the trees are in the way. The intricacies of all that we see and know as humans can not possibly have happened over a period of billions of years. Combine the different scientific information and it would confirm it. Take the Danish Scientist that proved the EMF degradation rate. Then reverse multiplied it till he reached 100%. I don't remember the year total he came up with but it wasn't in the billions. Again, I shared the link with UK and Pablo, so I will see if I can find it.

I have been "discredited" as a "radical" because I believe BY FAITH, what I've learned by experience. I am not interested in listening to the corrupted thinking of scientist who DO have an agenda. IF the Creation story is prooved real and true, then that means that mankind is subject to it's Creator. IF we are subject to the Creator as the Biblical story goes, THEN their is a price to pay for our actions.

The funny thing is that this can be bounced all the way back to the 3 chapter of Genesis. Eve ate from the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil. So now mankind has been ever increasing in his pursuit of knowledge, BUT the one who triggered the fall, Satan, has been doing all that he can to proove that He doesn't exist. He is called the father of lies and deception.

Mankind with our limited mental capacity, at most we use 8% if you're a Einstein, can not fully fathom, nor handle all of the mysteries and intricacies of the Spiritual world and Physical world that exist at the same time.

I am a radical in that I know what I know about both worlds BASED UPON EXPERIENCE and effort. I have tried to illustrate that, and share it with anyone who wishes to listen. However, in return it just raises peoples anger, and frustration which TOTALLY defeats my intent.

So yes, you are correct that I do not read all of the sciences, but there are some that I've read and investigated, and these are in line with my thinking. But in an effort to keep from fanning the flames, I am choosing to back out of the discussion, because it's doing more damage than good. If name calling, and bad thoughts about who I am are what I must endure, so be it. But in truth, that's a limited perspective based from a judgment made from behind a computer screen. NO ONE in here knows who I am in my daily life, or the good or bad that I do. You know my perspective, and may not like it, but that doesn't tell you all of the real me.

So again, let's just sit back, and let this pan out, we'll see real soon!

_________________
2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


March 20th, 2012, 9:11 am
Profile
QB Coach
User avatar

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pm
Posts: 3039
Location: Elkhart, In.
Post Re: Gorilla genome could hold key to the human condition
Here are the links I shared with Pablo and UK

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdNWkGqBsrA
(This is a video from the Creation Museum outside Cinncinati and is quite interesting. Not sure how far Pablo got with this one.)

http://twft.com/?page=Radio.Main
(This is a Christian Pastor Chuck Smith out of California. He is teaching specifically on the creation of Earth, and uses the information about the Danish Scientist. HOWEVER it was taken from last October so you would have to check there archives from 10/25-26, I believe was the date he mentioned it, according to my message to Pablo. Follow the link, and go to 2011 in the top right corner, then go to the date and you can listen on line.

_________________
2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


March 20th, 2012, 9:21 am
Profile
Online
QB Coach
User avatar

Joined: August 21st, 2005, 3:36 am
Posts: 3116
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Post Re: Gorilla genome could hold key to the human condition
I've done a bit of reading on the EMF theory and from what I've seen, there were numerous errors identified in the conclusions drawn. I have to do more reading, but it appears so far that there are some serious flaws in that theory.

WarEr, I know you don't want to talk about it anymore, so ignore this if you like. All I'll say is that this is consistent with a lot of other things you've posted in that it reaffirms your beliefs and you take it as truth, even though it is far from "proven". And by no means are you the only person who does this. It's pretty much a common practice now that people only get their information from sources that confirm what they already believe. It's classic confirmation bias, and sadly it seems to pervade our society these days.

_________________
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” - Neil deGrasse Tyson


March 20th, 2012, 9:41 am
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 am
Posts: 9377
Location: Dallas
Post Re: Gorilla genome could hold key to the human condition
Communication is a two way street, however since you have shown interest in only pushing your agenda/sites/links and refuse to look at science or beliefs of anyone else I'm done exploring what it is you wish to "share". Please refrain from asking me to look at anything further until you are willing to do what you ask everyone else to do. The hypocrisy of this do as I say but not as I do attitude is what is killing your objective.

What is the scientist agenda? To discover the truth. Imagine if a scientist could prove the existence of God, why wouldn't they? I have zero agenda not to know there is a God, my agenda is simply to follow where the evidence leads. If the evidence pointed, IMO, to God - that is where I would go.

Look at it another way, if science discovers God they will just keep on going to find more discoveries to understand him better. There is very little, if anything, to be lost. Studying science is no sin. Now on-the-other-hand, if science proves their is no God - what does religion stand to lose? The answer is simple - everything. Look behind the motivations and the real agendas become clear.

You say science hasn't set their sights high enough? That is funny because so much of science has focused on the creation/understanding of the entire universe. I think most, without an agenda, would realize those sights are pretty damn high.

Setting your sites low is "believing" in one thing without truly considering the alternatives. Imagine if you only believed that hot dogs was a nutritious food. All you ate was hotdogs. You physically felt pretty good (well you wouldn't know the difference anyways). All your experiences eating hot dogs backed up your belief system. You don't bother reading the labels or any science out there about vitamins and general health. Does this make your original starting point correct? It does in your heart which does a very good job at convincing your head you are right.

Code:
So again, let's just sit back, and let this pan out, we'll see real soon!
Believers have been saying this exact same thing for 2,000 years. Imagine if scientist have said for the pat 2,000 years that the sun would burn out in our lifetime - at what point do we discredit that? One lifetime as they suggest? 2, 10, 25 generations?

When you are ready to consider all the alternatives openly then I will again do the same my friend. Until then, we can be brothers in our love of the Lions regardless of belief systems.

Peace out...

_________________
Image
LB Tweet


March 20th, 2012, 10:06 am
Profile WWW
3rd Round Selection

Joined: October 19th, 2005, 1:24 pm
Posts: 1129
Location: Nottingham, England
Post Re: Gorilla genome could hold key to the human condition
WarEr4Christ wrote:
If name calling, and bad thoughts about who I am are what I must endure, so be it.

WarEr - I didn't call you a name, I didn't call you a radical. I expressed my opinion that the kind of thinking you expressed (dogmatic - ie (from wiki) "Dogma is the established belief or doctrine held by a religion, or a particular group or organization.[1] It is authoritative and not to be disputed, doubted, or diverged from, by the practitioners or believers.") can lead to radicalism.

That is not to say I consider you a radical, or that I have bad thoughts about who you are - neither of those things occur. I consider you a thoroughly decent chap - one that I disagree with on a number of things, but don't we all?

I'll continue to challenge what I see as dogmatic thinking (just as I should imagine you will continue to challenge what you see as my misguided thinking :) ) but I hope you will see that is not an attack on you personally.


March 20th, 2012, 10:09 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 49 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware.