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 Interactive Mock Draft 2012 - Lions are On the Clock 
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Post Re: Interactive Mock Draft 2012 - Lions are On the Clock
DFlo wrote:
Alright guys the pick is in, your results are updated. You can see who your team selected here:

http://www.footballdraftnotebook.com/InteractiveMockDraftResults.html

Feel free to bookmark that page and continue voting daily. We will do one team every day until the draft

wjb I used your description, although I had to cut it down a lot. Thanks for this


DFlo - no problem, just be prepared to be called an idiot! ;-) I get it a lot... (I'm somewhat joking...)

:idea: :arrow:


April 16th, 2012, 7:13 pm
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Post Re: Interactive Mock Draft 2012 - Lions are On the Clock
Are you kidding me with that description? It's so far off base.....

The EXACT reason why Jonathan Martin has fallen out of the top 20 in many mocks is because of his LACK of aggression. That description makes him out to be just short of an axe murderer. Martin has a passive nature, which is what teams are finding out and not liking about him. They also don't like his lack of upper body strength, and feel he needs substantial time to develop that upper body. But it is his personality, his lack of aggression on the field, that has seen his draft stock drop.

Oh boy...

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April 17th, 2012, 11:11 am
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Post Re: Interactive Mock Draft 2012 - Lions are On the Clock
m2karateman wrote:
Are you kidding me with that description? It's so far off base.....

The EXACT reason why Jonathan Martin has fallen out of the top 20 in many mocks is because of his LACK of aggression. That description makes him out to be just short of an axe murderer. Martin has a passive nature, which is what teams are finding out and not liking about him. They also don't like his lack of upper body strength, and feel he needs substantial time to develop that upper body. But it is his personality, his lack of aggression on the field, that has seen his draft stock drop.

Oh boy...


LOL, he said he isn't "nasty" - I wouldn't put that just short of an axe murderer. And he was comparing his aggressiveness to Backus who falls well short of an axe murderer.

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April 17th, 2012, 11:16 am
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Post Re: Interactive Mock Draft 2012 - Lions are On the Clock
Pablo wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
Are you kidding me with that description? It's so far off base.....

The EXACT reason why Jonathan Martin has fallen out of the top 20 in many mocks is because of his LACK of aggression. That description makes him out to be just short of an axe murderer. Martin has a passive nature, which is what teams are finding out and not liking about him. They also don't like his lack of upper body strength, and feel he needs substantial time to develop that upper body. But it is his personality, his lack of aggression on the field, that has seen his draft stock drop.

Oh boy...


LOL, he said he isn't "nasty" - I wouldn't put that just short of an axe murderer. And he was comparing his aggressiveness to Backus who falls well short of an axe murderer.


Martin's aggression is similar to, if not less than that of Backus. It's why he's dropping on many mocks. At least, that's what I am reading from many reports on him.

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Last edited by m2karateman on April 17th, 2012, 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.



April 17th, 2012, 11:24 am
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Post Re: Interactive Mock Draft 2012 - Lions are On the Clock
m2karateman wrote:
Are you kidding me with that description? It's so far off base.....

The EXACT reason why Jonathan Martin has fallen out of the top 20 in many mocks is because of his LACK of aggression. That description makes him out to be just short of an axe murderer. Martin has a passive nature, which is what teams are finding out and not liking about him. They also don't like his lack of upper body strength, and feel he needs substantial time to develop that upper body. But it is his personality, his lack of aggression on the field, that has seen his draft stock drop.

Oh boy...


This is my biggest gripe against Backus. Which also begs the question; What happened to Cherilus' aggressive nature? Coming out of college he was known for his aggressiveness. Where did that go?! What makes you come to Detroit and become soft?

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April 17th, 2012, 11:24 am
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Post Re: Interactive Mock Draft 2012 - Lions are On the Clock
Here's the thing...as a left tackle you don't necessarily have to be 'aggressive'. Jonathan Ogden and Walter Jones are two really good examples. Yes, they would go out and pop someone, but they weren't viewed as aggressive tackles, like Orlando Pace was. I would like to see a bit more snarl out of our tackles as well, but having it doesn't necessarily make you better.

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April 17th, 2012, 11:27 am
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Post Re: Interactive Mock Draft 2012 - Lions are On the Clock
The knock on Martin is that he has short arms and doesn't have great feet...so he's not a prototype LT in terms of athleticism or measurables. And he isn't powerful enough to play RT. Mayock described him as "soft." If these criticisms are accurate, he's not a sure-fire starter at either LT or RT.

Regarding aggressiveness: Steve Smith is aggressive but I don't want him playing LT. Not sure how important aggression is if the player doesn't have the skills or body type to get the job done. In this regard, I don't think it matters much if Martin is aggressive or not--the bigger questions are about his skills.

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April 17th, 2012, 11:44 am
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Post Re: Interactive Mock Draft 2012 - Lions are On the Clock
m2karateman wrote:
Pablo wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
Are you kidding me with that description? It's so far off base.....

The EXACT reason why Jonathan Martin has fallen out of the top 20 in many mocks is because of his LACK of aggression. That description makes him out to be just short of an axe murderer. Martin has a passive nature, which is what teams are finding out and not liking about him. They also don't like his lack of upper body strength, and feel he needs substantial time to develop that upper body. But it is his personality, his lack of aggression on the field, that has seen his draft stock drop.

Oh boy...


LOL, he said he isn't "nasty" - I wouldn't put that just short of an axe murderer. And he was comparing his aggressiveness to Backus who falls well short of an axe murderer.


Martin's aggression is similar to, if not less than that of Backus. It's why he's dropping on many mocks. At least, that's what I am reading from many reports on him.


I disagree that Martin is less aggressive than Backus, and it shows in his run blocking. Backus CAN'T run block because he doesn't have that aggressive nature. He always waits for the DE to come to him and simply fends him off, he doesn't go "hit" anyone. Martin isn't aggressive by any means, but he's much more aggressive than Backus in my book.


April 17th, 2012, 12:00 pm
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Post Re: Interactive Mock Draft 2012 - Lions are On the Clock
mwill2 wrote:
The knock on Martin is that he has short arms and doesn't have great feet...so he's not a prototype LT in terms of athleticism or measurables. And he isn't powerful enough to play RT. Mayock described him as "soft." If these criticisms are accurate, he's not a sure-fire starter at either LT or RT.

Regarding aggressiveness: Steve Smith is aggressive but I don't want him playing LT. Not sure how important aggression is if the player doesn't have the skills or body type to get the job done. In this regard, I don't think it matters much if Martin is aggressive or not--the bigger questions are about his skills.


I think you have Jon Martin confused with Riley Reiff. Martin has GREAT feet, and it is one of his most coveted assets. He also has 34" arms, which is plenty long enough to play LT. Reiff is the one with the shorter arms, and is seen as either strictly a RT or an OG in the NFL due to that issue. According to reports I've seen, some teams have removed OT from his position, and changed it to OG, thereby lowering Riley's draft stock.

Martin wasn't impressive at his pro day (slow 40 time, 20 benches, only 8'8" broad jump), so there is some question about his athleticism. Also, Martin didn't work out at the Combines due to an illness, which put some teams off. He lacks a powerful initial punch, and at times gets stood up too easily because of that.

I watched a couple Stanford games, and I recall that he looked really good as a pass protector, and moved extremely well laterally. However, those times when Stanford ran the ball he seemed to struggle moving his opponent. In my eyes, Martin is pretty similar to Backus. That said, I wouldn't mind it if the Lions picked Martin at #23. However, I don't think Martin will be there. Chicago would be damn foolish to pass on him, as J'Marcus Webb is certainly not a left tackle.

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April 17th, 2012, 1:03 pm
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Post Re: Interactive Mock Draft 2012 - Lions are On the Clock
m2karateman wrote:
I watched a couple Stanford games, and I recall that he looked really good as a pass protector, and moved extremely well laterally. However, those times when Stanford ran the ball he seemed to struggle moving his opponent. In my eyes, Martin is pretty similar to Backus. That said, I wouldn't mind it if the Lions picked Martin at #23. However, I don't think Martin will be there. Chicago would be damn foolish to pass on him, as J'Marcus Webb is certainly not a left tackle.


You tell me when Backus ever run blocked this well or with this much aggression: (0:29 and 0:44)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCT9xiv6TdY


April 17th, 2012, 1:12 pm
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Post Re: Interactive Mock Draft 2012 - Lions are On the Clock
You're joking, right? A couple of plays defines a guys ability? Not so much.
And I have seen Backus collapse a DE that is crashing inside on a running play, just like Martin did here. Sorry, but I still maintain the two are similar in their abilities and approach to the game.

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April 17th, 2012, 1:18 pm
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Post Re: Interactive Mock Draft 2012 - Lions are On the Clock
Well. The football coach of the Lions often says that Backus is their best run blocker. I'm thinking that kind of defies the argument that he cannot do it. Others on different teams might be better. But I think the notion that he cannot run block is not really the case.

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April 17th, 2012, 9:46 pm
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Post Re: Interactive Mock Draft 2012 - Lions are On the Clock
wjb21ndtown wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
I watched a couple Stanford games, and I recall that he looked really good as a pass protector, and moved extremely well laterally. However, those times when Stanford ran the ball he seemed to struggle moving his opponent. In my eyes, Martin is pretty similar to Backus. That said, I wouldn't mind it if the Lions picked Martin at #23. However, I don't think Martin will be there. Chicago would be damn foolish to pass on him, as J'Marcus Webb is certainly not a left tackle.


You tell me when Backus ever run blocked this well or with this much aggression: (0:29 and 0:44)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCT9xiv6TdY



How about here?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKY9rbFfTS8

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April 17th, 2012, 9:52 pm
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Post Re: Interactive Mock Draft 2012 - Lions are On the Clock
LionFan57 wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
Are you kidding me with that description? It's so far off base.....

The EXACT reason why Jonathan Martin has fallen out of the top 20 in many mocks is because of his LACK of aggression. That description makes him out to be just short of an axe murderer. Martin has a passive nature, which is what teams are finding out and not liking about him. They also don't like his lack of upper body strength, and feel he needs substantial time to develop that upper body. But it is his personality, his lack of aggression on the field, that has seen his draft stock drop.

Oh boy...


This is my biggest gripe against Backus. Which also begs the question; What happened to Cherilus' aggressive nature? Coming out of college he was known for his aggressiveness. Where did that go?! What makes you come to Detroit and become soft?


Getting gun shy because you screw up too much.


April 17th, 2012, 10:49 pm
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Post Re: Interactive Mock Draft 2012 - Lions are On the Clock
jrd66 wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
I watched a couple Stanford games, and I recall that he looked really good as a pass protector, and moved extremely well laterally. However, those times when Stanford ran the ball he seemed to struggle moving his opponent. In my eyes, Martin is pretty similar to Backus. That said, I wouldn't mind it if the Lions picked Martin at #23. However, I don't think Martin will be there. Chicago would be damn foolish to pass on him, as J'Marcus Webb is certainly not a left tackle.


You tell me when Backus ever run blocked this well or with this much aggression: (0:29 and 0:44)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCT9xiv6TdY



How about here?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKY9rbFfTS8



Tell me where JRD, I'm not watching the whole game. I watched the entire first half and only saw more of what I expected out of Backus, tentative garbage. I love the play where he's walking in circles looking for someone to hit and ends up hitting no one... brilliant!


April 18th, 2012, 11:18 am
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