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 Trayvon Martin vs. George Zimmerman 
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Post Trayvon Martin vs. George Zimmerman
I thought this should be in it's own thread instead of the 'Joke of the Day' section. I'm surprised this has not been discussed before now.

m2karateman wrote:
LionFan57 wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
LionFan57 wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
LionFan57 wrote:
That's the point. They're both 1/2 white. Blacks say Obama is 'Not White' while Zimmerman who is half Hispanic is considered 'White'. Black America can't (or shouldn't) have it both ways.

And you forgot to point out the obvious.....both are criminals.

Are you saying that because of Ted Nugents comments today re: Obama? Or do you relly see Obama as a criminal?


I haven't heard Nugent's comments. I think Obama is a criminal. He is more dangerous to the American way of life and liberty than any Communist that has ever lived. To me, that is high treason. Hang him.


In that sense; Yes, I agree completely!!

But technically neither of these guys are criminals. I thought you were playing off Nugents comments...

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/323193


Well, I'm going to disagree about Zimmerman. He pursued Trayvon Martin, not the other way around. The police told him to stop following Martin, and he ignored them. As far as I'm concerned, he was in the initial stages of stalking Martin, and as such was involved in a criminal act. If Martin confronted him, then Martin did so as a means of inquiry and possible self defense. There was absolutely NO EXCUSE for Zimmerman to tail Martin, or get close enough to engage him in any way. This was murder, and using the "stand your ground" portion of the Castle Doctrine as a means of defense is ridiculous. If the jury becomes convinced that Zimmerman was involved in a criminal act prior to the altercation, his defense just went right out the window.

Either way, Zimmerman should be in jail.



I think we're all going to find out a VERY different story than the one you depicted here.

1) The police did NOT tell Zimmerman to stop pursuing Martin. Listen to the tape. They said "We don't need you to do that." It's different, it's not the same. Regardless, Zimmerman did lose Martin in the night and gave up the search. Again, listen to the FULL unedited by NBC / CNN tape. He said he lost him and wasn't sure were he was.

2) The edited version played on CNN excludes the above AND edits out the 911 dispatcher question, "Is he black or white?" It ONLY plays out Zimmerman's response, "I think he's black" to help feul the racial element of this. The NBC news editor has since been fired because of that issue and NBC would not disclose if that person was black or white.

3) There is a witness who has said that "someone in a red jacket [Zimmerman]" was on the ground and that "someone in a hoodie [Martin]" was on top of him when he heard screaming and went to his window. He stepped away from the window to call 911 and heard the gunshot. When he returned to the window, Zimmerman was standing and Martin was now on the ground.

4) The EMT's records do show that they assisted Zimmerman with a bloody / broken nose and a wound to the back of his head. The video tape close up in the police station confirms the mark on the back of the head. (CNN never played the close up.)

5) Zimmerman did have a right to follow Martin; he was the neighbourhood watch guy! He had every right as well as a responsibility to be there. He probably shouldn't have been carrying a gun, but it was within his right to do so.

6) Based on the police investigation that night they were convinced that Zimmerman did no wrong. It wasn't until Al Sharpton shows up and the media blitz on the subject as well as OBama's asinine comment about 'Martin would look like his son if he had one' that they reopened the investigation and suddenly there's enough evidence & reason to arrest Zimmerman. THAT'S BS!!! Political BS at that.


I'm not saying that Zimmerman is innocent but there is a ton of data re: this case that NEVER got played on liberal TV. IE, the picture of Martin @ age 12 is nonsense. He's 17! He's over 6 foot tall and over 200 lbs! He's a BIG fricken' kid with tattoo's!! See the recent pictures of him online!

I've heard several sides of the 'Stand Your Ground' law and it will be interesting to see how that plays out. There's compelling arguments on both sides; ultimately the jury will decide.

I also find it interesting that you consider Zimmerman a criminal and he's not been convicted of anything yet! That, my friend, is the power of the media and why some networks CAN NOT be trusted!

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April 18th, 2012, 12:25 pm
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Post Re: Trayvon Martin vs. George Zimmerman
I took the liberty to move this here...

wjb21ndtown wrote:
Zimmerman had every right to follow Martin, regardless of what the police did or didn't tell him. Zimmerman believed that Martin was part of a rash of burglaries in the neighborhood, and Zimmerman had every right to be on the street, as a free man, following Martin. Zimmerman was not "stalking" Martin in any way, he was following him - big difference.

What happened next is confusing. There are plenty of reports to suggest that Zimmerman caught up with Martin, and that Martin attacked Zimmerman. Whether that's true or not is open for debate, but that's what the reports are, and they're backed with witness testimony.

That said, if Zimmerman was attacked by Martin, does that give him the right to shoot Martin? Again, open for debate. In Michigan it's a "hell no..." You can only meet force with a reasonable amount of force. However, IMO that law is bullsh!t, it basically states that you have to get your rectum kicked if you have a gun on you, and your only means of defending yourself is that gun. It more or less punishes you for not having a bat, and it more or less punishes the RESULTS of your actions, rather than your actions themselves.

There was a guy in Warren that engaged in a consensual bar fight - both parties agreed to "take it outside" and duke it out. One guy punched the other guy ONE TIME, ONE PUNCH, the guy fell on the ground, hit his head, and died. The guy that threw the ONE PUNCH was charged and convicted of manslaughter. I think that's bullsh!t. Further, I think it's bullshit that you have to subject yourself to an rectum kicking while lawfully carrying a concealed weapon.

That said, I think more has to be learned from this ordeal. Was Zimmerman really attacked first? Why wasn't he beat to hell with wounds and whatnot? Where were his injuries, if any? Did he really fear for his life? Allegedly he was on the ground getting stomped on repeatedly... Maybe he really did wonder if Martin was going to kill him... Or, did he take the law into his own hands and kill someone that he believed was a criminal (and there's also evidence to support that Martin did have ill intentions as well, but no one will talk about that now that he's dead)?

At the end of the day, I think he's guilty of manslaughter. 2nd degree murder, no way, manslaughter, probably, but I will admit that I need to hear more and see how this thing plays out before I'm willing to convict the guy.

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April 18th, 2012, 12:27 pm
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Post Re: Trayvon Martin vs. George Zimmerman
Like posted above, the evidence known at the moment, doesn't translate into a second-degree murder just because of the need for intent. Sadly, its being used as a distraction from other issues. A racial divide will strengthen african-americans for Obama, even though they've been hurt the most by the economy, while also bringing some whites over with the sympathy vote. The way the story was told by NBC and CNN is libelous and I expect lawsuits from Zimmerman after the trial.

There could be evidence released during the trial that could point to Zimmerman's guilt, so I'm still holding off judgement either way. I do believe that Florida is overcharging Zimmerman, much like they overcharged Casey Anthony. Depending on the evidence they have, they might have been better off going with the lesser charge instead of the alternative of setting them free, like they did with Anthony.


April 18th, 2012, 1:20 pm
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Post Re: Trayvon Martin vs. George Zimmerman
First off, as a neighborhood watch person, he was not supposed to be armed. It doesn't make it a crime, but it's one of the things that the group he belonged to had asked. So he ignored that.

Second, the police said "we don't need you to do that" which basically means "stop following him". He ignored them.

Third, by all accounts Trayvon Martin was not doing anything that could have been viewed as "suspicious activity". Zimmerman had a documented history of calling into the police to report "suspicious behavior", and always it was a black person he was calling on.

Fourth, the "stand your ground" rule does not mean you can't run away. It gives the option of standing your ground, without a DUTY to retreat. Zimmerman CLAIMS he was attacked by Martin, but Martin is no longer around to counter that argument. Also, the police didn't arrest Zimmerman because of his claim, and because according to the law if they did arrest Zimmerman and he was cleared of the charges based on the Florida Castle Doctrine, the police would then be open for a civil suit by Zimmerman. As a result of trying to avoid a possible law suit, the police chose not to arrest Zimmerman.

Now let's look at this....Zimmerman is 200 lbs, and Martin is 140 lbs. If Zimmerman was getting "stomped" while on the ground, I would imagine he would have far more serious injuries than what were seen on him. And using a gun should be a LAST RESORT for self defense, not a first choice. From what I understand, there were no other marks on Martin other than the gun shot wound, meaning that Zimmerman chose to use his gun first and foremost. If he had an opportunity to pull a gun, point it and fire, he had an opportunity to fight back. He chose to use deadly force when there is reason to believe he did not have to, and that his life was NOT in imminent peril.

I am a HUGE fan of the Castle Doctrine, so it's not like I am anti-gun, or against the law. What I am against is people hiding behind this law to commit what I feel is a crime. It causes exactly what is happening now, anti-gun groups and politicians wanting nationwide appeal of the Castle Doctrines, or re-writing the "stand your ground" portion of it. It is a good, sensible law. At issue here is that when Zimmerman was following Martin, Martin was not involved in any criminal activity and did not pose a threat to Zimmerman. While Zimmerman may have been in a place he had a legal right to be, so did Trayvon Martin.

Had Zimmerman not been quite so zealous in his pursuit of Trayvon Martin, nothing would have come of it. Did Zimmerman say or do something to provoke Martin? We don't know. We'll probably never know. Did Martin just openly attack Zimmerman for no reason? We don't know, and we'll never know. I do know this. If someone was following me like Zimmerman was following Martin, I'd be thinking the guy was targeting me for something, and might be inclined to attack him before he attacked me. Martin could have felt HIS life was in danger, that he was being stalked for a possible robbery.

We'll never, ever know the complete truth of this entire matter. But given Zimmerman's profiling history, and his quick to fire approach, it is my opinion he's guilty of a crime. Murder 2 may be more than what he should be charged with, I can agree with that. But he's damn sure not completely innocent.

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April 18th, 2012, 7:34 pm
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Post Re: Trayvon Martin vs. George Zimmerman
Watch the news on this subject today.

BTW, I belive you have the weight of these two completely wrong. Martin is much bigger than Zimmerman.



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April 20th, 2012, 7:08 am
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Post Re: Trayvon Martin vs. George Zimmerman
m2karateman wrote:
First off, as a neighborhood watch person, he was not supposed to be armed. It doesn't make it a crime, but it's one of the things that the group he belonged to had asked. So he ignored that.

Second, the police said "we don't need you to do that" which basically means "stop following him". He ignored them.

Third, by all accounts Trayvon Martin was not doing anything that could have been viewed as "suspicious activity". Zimmerman had a documented history of calling into the police to report "suspicious behavior", and always it was a black person he was calling on.

Fourth, the "stand your ground" rule does not mean you can't run away. It gives the option of standing your ground, without a DUTY to retreat. Zimmerman CLAIMS he was attacked by Martin, but Martin is no longer around to counter that argument. Also, the police didn't arrest Zimmerman because of his claim, and because according to the law if they did arrest Zimmerman and he was cleared of the charges based on the Florida Castle Doctrine, the police would then be open for a civil suit by Zimmerman. As a result of trying to avoid a possible law suit, the police chose not to arrest Zimmerman.

Now let's look at this....Zimmerman is 200 lbs, and Martin is 140 lbs. If Zimmerman was getting "stomped" while on the ground, I would imagine he would have far more serious injuries than what were seen on him. And using a gun should be a LAST RESORT for self defense, not a first choice. From what I understand, there were no other marks on Martin other than the gun shot wound, meaning that Zimmerman chose to use his gun first and foremost. If he had an opportunity to pull a gun, point it and fire, he had an opportunity to fight back. He chose to use deadly force when there is reason to believe he did not have to, and that his life was NOT in imminent peril.

I am a HUGE fan of the Castle Doctrine, so it's not like I am anti-gun, or against the law. What I am against is people hiding behind this law to commit what I feel is a crime. It causes exactly what is happening now, anti-gun groups and politicians wanting nationwide appeal of the Castle Doctrines, or re-writing the "stand your ground" portion of it. It is a good, sensible law. At issue here is that when Zimmerman was following Martin, Martin was not involved in any criminal activity and did not pose a threat to Zimmerman. While Zimmerman may have been in a place he had a legal right to be, so did Trayvon Martin.

Had Zimmerman not been quite so zealous in his pursuit of Trayvon Martin, nothing would have come of it. Did Zimmerman say or do something to provoke Martin? We don't know. We'll probably never know. Did Martin just openly attack Zimmerman for no reason? We don't know, and we'll never know. I do know this. If someone was following me like Zimmerman was following Martin, I'd be thinking the guy was targeting me for something, and might be inclined to attack him before he attacked me. Martin could have felt HIS life was in danger, that he was being stalked for a possible robbery.

We'll never, ever know the complete truth of this entire matter. But given Zimmerman's profiling history, and his quick to fire approach, it is my opinion he's guilty of a crime. Murder 2 may be more than what he should be charged with, I can agree with that. But he's damn sure not completely innocent.



Who says he wasn't supposed to be armed as a Neighborhood Watch member? Is that their motto, or is that something within the program? If he was carrying a weapon illegally, he would have been charged. The FL prosecutor is all over him, and would love to pile on. "You don't need to do that" and "stop!" are two very different things, and no it's "basically saying don't do that." It wasn't a direct order to stop, and he lawfully went ahead and pursued Martin. He even explains why, in his neighborhood there had been a ton of crime that police couldn't prove, in the past calling the cops on suspicious activity didn't amount to anything.

As for whether Martin was doing anything "suspicious" and defining Martin as a "racist" -Martin was wearing his hood up, in warm weather, and walking around the outside of a residence that was locked, with no one home, and that he couldn't gain access to. To me, that's suspicious. There is an EXCUSE for Martin's suspicious behavior going around that his uncle "lives in the area," but from what I understand it wasn't his "uncle's house" that he was "casing."

As far as Martin being racist - In my prior neighborhood (Eastpointe) there was a problem with black kids coming from Detroit into Eastpointe to steal bikes. They would cross 8 mile two or three per bike (someone riding on the handlebars and someone riding on the pegs), and the three that rode over on one bike would go back with three bikes. Cops started questioning and following black kids, three to a bike. That's not racist, that's good police work. The criminal profile of the neighborhood, at least as far as home invasions and the criminal activity that Martin saw was primarily done by black people. Just because his prior two or three phone complaints involved "suspicious black people," it doesn't mean that the guy is racist.

Further, where do you get off saying that a guy X size can "fight back" against a guy Y size? Just because one guy is bigger than the other it doesn't mean he knows how to fight. I've been told that Martin is much closer to 165 than 140, and that Zimmerman is under 200lbs by a fair amount (185). That's a 20 lb difference, and one guy is an over weight, out of shape pudgy Mexican build like a punching bag, while Martin is in shape and built like an NFL defensive back. If I were a betting man and saw the two square up, I'd put my money on Martin. Also, the reports are that Zimmerman was on the ground, getting stomped, begging Martin to stop. It's a panic situation and you're at the mercy of the stomper. You don't know if they're going to stop, or if they're going to beat you dead. I don't know if its ever happened to you, but I've been stomped on by 8+ guys at a bar fight that got out of hand that I wasn't even a party of, and I'll tell you for sure, deadly force warranted or not, if I had a gun at the bottom of that pile they would have all been dead (and btw, I came out of that with no visible marks either, but I was sore as poop for two days).


April 20th, 2012, 11:37 am
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Post Re: Trayvon Martin vs. George Zimmerman
My understanding is that the neighborhood watch PROGRAM he belonged to asked their members not to carry while out on patrol. This is what I've heard.

Secondly, being stomped by 8 guys versus one guy is quite, quite different.

My point is, if Zimmerman found the time to pull out a gun, point it and pull the trigger, it seems to me he had time to defend himself in another way.

And don't forget, I know quite a bit about self defense, have a CPL and am a big proponent of the Castle Doctrine.

Walking around a locked house is NOT a crime. And it wasn't two to three phone calls by Zimmerman, it was something like 40 calls made into that police station over the course of a couple weeks, all about blacks in the neighborhood.

I grew up in St. Clair Shores, so believe me I know about the bike stealing and everything else you mentioned. My parents car was stolen, my bike was stolen, my sister had her purse stolen. All by blacks. It doesn't mean every black walking in a white neighborhood is a criminal. Hood up on a hot day? So what?

The difference in their weights was what I had read in an article. If it was wrong, then it's wrong. However, as I stated before, using a gun should be a LAST RESORT. From what I've heard, almost immediately after the gun shot Zimmerman was standing. The powder burns on Martin's hoodie indicate firing from a VERY close position. If Martin was "stomping" on Zimmerman, then how did Zimmerman get that close to fire like that?

There are a great deal of questions in this case. Personally, I feel like Zimmerman went to the gun way too early. You said it yourself wjb, you got stomped by a bunch of guys, and you didn't suffer any serious injury but being sore for a couple days. Being stomped by 8 guys is one thing, by a single teenager is quite another.

Remember, use of deadly force is supposed to be used ONLY when one feels their life is in imminent danger. I also understand that Zimmerman is innocent until proven guilty. But it burns me to see a guy using the Castle Doctrine as his self defense, when the whole episode could have been avoided if he had done as the police ASKED him to do. I understand he wasn't required to. But like I said before, Martin could have felt like he was being followed and targeted by Zimmerman for a robbery as well, and that's why he tried to avoid him (walking around the locked house) and then attacked him (pre-emptive strike), not realizing the guy was part of the neighborhood watch program.

If I'm walking around a neighborhood and a car is following me, I'd get suspicious of the person as well. I'd try to lose them, and if that failed I may just resort to approaching them. Who knows exactly what preceded the attack? Did Zimmerman bait Martin? Did Martin attack without provocation? We'll never know.

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April 20th, 2012, 2:04 pm
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Post Re: Trayvon Martin vs. George Zimmerman
m2karateman wrote:
I grew up in St. Clair Shores.


LOL, I moved to SCS in second grade. First day I came home with a serious black eye. By the end of the week, I was best pals with the two biggest guys in my class - no more black eyes.

As for Zimmerman, my issue is that story he recounted didn't match with his physical condidtion he seemed to be in when he was taken into the police station.

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April 20th, 2012, 2:10 pm
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Post Re: Trayvon Martin vs. George Zimmerman
m2karateman wrote:
My understanding is that the neighborhood watch PROGRAM he belonged to asked their members not to carry while out on patrol. This is what I've heard.

Secondly, being stomped by 8 guys versus one guy is quite, quite different.

My point is, if Zimmerman found the time to pull out a gun, point it and pull the trigger, it seems to me he had time to defend himself in another way.

And don't forget, I know quite a bit about self defense, have a CPL and am a big proponent of the Castle Doctrine.

Walking around a locked house is NOT a crime. And it wasn't two to three phone calls by Zimmerman, it was something like 40 calls made into that police station over the course of a couple weeks, all about blacks in the neighborhood.

I grew up in St. Clair Shores, so believe me I know about the bike stealing and everything else you mentioned. My parents car was stolen, my bike was stolen, my sister had her purse stolen. All by blacks. It doesn't mean every black walking in a white neighborhood is a criminal. Hood up on a hot day? So what?

The difference in their weights was what I had read in an article. If it was wrong, then it's wrong. However, as I stated before, using a gun should be a LAST RESORT. From what I've heard, almost immediately after the gun shot Zimmerman was standing. The powder burns on Martin's hoodie indicate firing from a VERY close position. If Martin was "stomping" on Zimmerman, then how did Zimmerman get that close to fire like that?

There are a great deal of questions in this case. Personally, I feel like Zimmerman went to the gun way too early. You said it yourself wjb, you got stomped by a bunch of guys, and you didn't suffer any serious injury but being sore for a couple days. Being stomped by 8 guys is one thing, by a single teenager is quite another.

Remember, use of deadly force is supposed to be used ONLY when one feels their life is in imminent danger. I also understand that Zimmerman is innocent until proven guilty. But it burns me to see a guy using the Castle Doctrine as his self defense, when the whole episode could have been avoided if he had done as the police ASKED him to do. I understand he wasn't required to. But like I said before, Martin could have felt like he was being followed and targeted by Zimmerman for a robbery as well, and that's why he tried to avoid him (walking around the locked house) and then attacked him (pre-emptive strike), not realizing the guy was part of the neighborhood watch program.

If I'm walking around a neighborhood and a car is following me, I'd get suspicious of the person as well. I'd try to lose them, and if that failed I may just resort to approaching them. Who knows exactly what preceded the attack? Did Zimmerman bait Martin? Did Martin attack without provocation? We'll never know.



M2K, there's a part of this that I'm not sure you're aware of.

In the tapes of Zimmerman's 911 call he lost Martin in the dark. He couldn't find him. The 911 dispatcher then asked for Zimmerman's address. Zimmerman said that he 'didn't want to say it out load because he wasn't sure where Martin was. He could be close by.' (paraphrasing). The 911 operator said fine & that he'd call Zimmerman back in 5 minutes after he'd had a chance to get back to his car where he could talk. They disengaged. It was immediately (within several minutes) after that when the scuffle began between Zimmerman & Martin. That could mean that Martin was close and attacked Zimmerman, OR, Zimmerman spotted Martin and engaged him. So, as you say, we just don't know those facts yet. But there IS a witness.

BUT, your supposition that this could have been avoided just isn't accurate if in fact Martin came at Zimmerman.

Furthermore, I don't know when profiling or even racial profiling became illegal or when doing it made anybody a racist. I guess I missed that memo. Somebody said it's politically incorrect but that doesn't make it illegal or unuseful in fighting crime. (Because of "political correctness" we now have TSA's at airports searching 80+ year old women for weapons! Where is that getting us?!) To wjb's point above; profiling = good criminal detection work! Unfortunately, I'm certain someone is going to label me as a racist, but the fact remains that a vast majority of the crime is committed by blacks (and Hispanics). I'm sorry to let the facts confuse the issue and ruin Al Sharpton's titrates; but that's just the way it is! Trayvon Martin, at least in Zimmerman's eyes was acting suspicious and in a place he shouldn't have been. Had it been a cop that spotted Martin, the cop would have followed & stopped him too. And, BTW, the police later found EVIDENCE in Martin's back pack of stolen goods and B & E tools. So Trayvon Martin was no innocent kid! Did he deserve to die for a B & E; of course not! But we don't know whether he attacked Zimmerman or not.

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April 20th, 2012, 3:10 pm
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Post Re: Trayvon Martin vs. George Zimmerman
Pablo wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
I grew up in St. Clair Shores.


LOL, I moved to SCS in second grade. First day I came home with a serious black eye. By the end of the week, I was best pals with the two biggest guys in my class - no more black eyes.

As for Zimmerman, my issue is that story he recounted didn't match with his physical condidtion he seemed to be in when he was taken into the police station.


That's not remotely close to accurate. You need to watch a different TV network. CNN and NBC were caught red handed lying to the public.

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April 20th, 2012, 3:12 pm
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Post Re: Trayvon Martin vs. George Zimmerman
LionFan57 wrote:
Pablo wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
I grew up in St. Clair Shores.


LOL, I moved to SCS in second grade. First day I came home with a serious black eye. By the end of the week, I was best pals with the two biggest guys in my class - no more black eyes.

As for Zimmerman, my issue is that story he recounted didn't match with his physical condidtion he seemed to be in when he was taken into the police station.


That's not remotely close to accurate. You need to watch a different TV network. CNN and NBC were caught red handed lying to the public.


ABC is the one that released the police station video and the difference between the low-res and hi-res version closeups showed the wounds. Remember that he went to the station 45 minutes after the attack, after being cleaned up by EMTs on the scene.

ABC released the first pictures from the scene of Zimmerman's head at the scene:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerm ... 5G87elYt9V

The link is in the above story. Its bloody, so not going to directly link.

As for what happened, I agree with m2k that according to most versions of the happenings Zimmerman fired too quickly. BUT when you add in the eyewitness and Zimmerman's testimony that Martin went for his weapon, it adds the doubt. M2k, the eyewitness that said Zimmerman was standing afterwards was on the phone when the gunshot went off, then Zimmerman was standing when he got back outside. Also, the stomping wasn't a Suh type stomping with feet, it was hands on head pounding into curb, so in that position, retrieving weapon and firing could put the gunshot directly into chest area.

Again, I'm speculating, but just showing how a small bit of information can completely change the story.


April 20th, 2012, 3:52 pm
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Post Re: Trayvon Martin vs. George Zimmerman
LionFan57 wrote:
Pablo wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
I grew up in St. Clair Shores.


LOL, I moved to SCS in second grade. First day I came home with a serious black eye. By the end of the week, I was best pals with the two biggest guys in my class - no more black eyes.

As for Zimmerman, my issue is that story he recounted didn't match with his physical condidtion he seemed to be in when he was taken into the police station.


That's not remotely close to accurate. You need to watch a different TV network. CNN and NBC were caught red handed lying to the public.


Actually I listen the radio but did see the video of him (without audio on a TV in our breakroom) when he was going into the police station. Regardless, it didn't look like there was any sort of physical altercation from his face, hands and clothes from what I saw. That alone gives me great reason to pause.

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April 20th, 2012, 3:58 pm
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Post Re: Trayvon Martin vs. George Zimmerman
I used to bounce in college. I've seen bar fights were guys got their faces smashed in, legs broke, etc. and no one pulled a gun.

Zimmerman wasn't anything close to that. Even if Zimmerman was following him, and Martin turned around and punched him in the face, that shouldn't have given him a right to shoot him. When the cops found Martin unarmed, they should've arrested Zimmerman and at least charged him with manslaughter. Then the courts could've decided this thing.

As it stands now, Zimmerman's life is effectively over. Even if he's proven innocent, he'll pretty much have to leave the country to maintain any semblance of a normal life. And, if it turns out he's guilty...not sure how he'll get by in a prison system dominated by black dudes.


April 20th, 2012, 8:21 pm
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Post Re: Trayvon Martin vs. George Zimmerman
Blueskies wrote:
I used to bounce in college. I've seen bar fights were guys got their faces smashed in, legs broke, etc. and no one pulled a gun.


This is kind of my point. I certainly don't know all the facts, and it seems like more comes to light every day. What I do know is that as a licensed carrier, you are told that the gun should not leave the holster until you feel you life is in imminent peril. If Zimmerman had a free hand to pull a gun and Martin was that close, he had a free hand to punch, push, or otherwise fend off this guy. He recovered from his injuries very, VERY quickly. His life didn't seem to be in imminent danger to me.

Blueskies wrote:
As it stands now, Zimmerman's life is effectively over. Even if he's proven innocent, he'll pretty much have to leave the country to maintain any semblance of a normal life. And, if it turns out he's guilty...not sure how he'll get by in a prison system dominated by black dudes.


Easy. It's called isolation. He would be kept apart from general population.

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April 23rd, 2012, 10:13 am
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Post Re: Trayvon Martin vs. George Zimmerman
I don't think there should be laws based on feelings. For the stand your ground law, you have to "feel" threatened. For SB1070, the cop has to "feel" the person is undocumented. Laws should be verifiable with facts.

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April 23rd, 2012, 11:18 am
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