Why do you assume there was no effort to trade up? For all we know they made every effort to move up and get Jackson, but were either told no, or the asking price was way too steep. Don't always assume that simply because a trade didn't happen means that the effort to make it didn't happen.

Jackson lasted until pick 24 and we took KJ 6 picks later. I remember Millen just gushing about KJ. Specifically he talked about the tape from the game when Virginia Tech played Miami (FL) and how KJ looked so fast (BTW - I saw that game as well and he averaged less than 5 YPC so I'm not sure what he was talking about).

If you remember Millen was all about speed on the Turf trying to emulate the Rams. Charles Roger was faster than Andre Johnson. In 2004 Roy Williams, Kevin Jones, Teddy Lehman, etc all had speed.

Steven Jackson was a 4.55-40 guy. Roy and KJ were both sub 4.4-40 guys.

Because Matt Millen was behind it and Matt Millen is an idiot!! An personally, I felt like we should have taken him with the Roy Williams pick and u see how that would of worked out. Notice the last sentence in my comment up above, I was one of those people. But it's good to see, someone believed in Millen's efforts on this board.

First off, I know Matt Millen was an idiot. However stupid he may have been, it still doesn't show that the Lions didn't try to move up to get Jackson, and were stone walled by other teams who had no interest in trading down. Is it likely that the Lions had KJ as their preferred back? Yes. But it's not a 100% fact.

And remember, it was that "idiot" that got Cleveland to hand over a second round pick to us in exchange for them moving up one spot so they could secure Kellen Winslow. As much as I hate what Millen did, I will still give credit for his doing that right. And also, Kevin Jones wasn't a bad back, at all. Lack of an offensive line (sound familiar) and injuries took their toll on him. He was pretty good when he was healthy and at least got a couple blocks. Often times he was trying to avoid guys while he was still getting handed the ball.

this is bs, i remember arguing with you about millen being at fault when you were always blaming the mooch. good one but not so fast

You are going to tell me Mooch was a good coach while he was here? Millen didn't control what happened on the field, the playcalls, etc. That was entirely on Mooch. And the fact that he's not even been offered a job since getting the axe here is testimony to the fact that the guy is just not a good coach.

Mooch was better than any other coach Millen hired. That isn't saying a lot however. Personnel means a lot, Bill Belichick is considered the best head coach by most observers but coached at Cleveland with season win totals between 5-7 four times.

And if I'm Mooch, I'd much rather sit in the analyst chair than going through the rigors of coaching in the NFL.

Who says Mooch even wants to coach anymore? He fleeced Detroit for 5 years, $25 million dollars, worked for two of it, and made double salary for three years being an NFL analyst/commentator. I would tend to think he's pretty well set financially, and he's damn well use to not having to wake up at 5:30a.m. 7 days a week, and deal with the media and whatnot. He can actually spend time with his family, do what he wants, and most of all, he's loaded... I know I wouldn't want to go back to "the grind" after being out of it for 3 years, and being financially set for the rest of my life...


That said, I didn't like Mooch much either, but like I've said before, I think the playcalling was limited due to personnel. Mooch had a Qb that couldn't throw more than 30 yards (two of them actually, Harrington and Garcia), so he couldn't call any deep plays, he had an offensive line that couldn't run block, no running backs, so he couldn't run the ball, and the best player on our offense was a complete garbage #1 WR that everyone thought was a star. What plays did you want him to call, exactly?

There's an old saying - "you can't turn SH!T into shine-ola!"

That saying has been debunked by mythbusters. they actually spent an episode shining a turd......so..um...yeah

/derailment lol

Hahaha... The only issue is "shinola" isn't a turd, or something shiny, it's shoe polish! You'd have to polish a shoe WITH a turd to really debunk the myth... And even then, you'd have a pretty stinky shoe... Just sayin'!

LMGDAO! Im just gonna stop before I derail this thread any further and just make this downright gross! lol

but thanks for the correction!