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 Tigers Season Opener 
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Post Re: Tigers Season Opener
Tigers are absolutely sucking right now, but i wouldnt exactly blame it on Cabrera.

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May 1st, 2012, 4:23 pm
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Post Re: Tigers Season Opener
kdsberman wrote:
Tigers are absolutely sucking right now, but i wouldnt exactly blame it on Cabrera.



The point isn't whether or not you would blame it on Cabrerra, it's weather or not this team would have been better off signing a 2nd baseman and relief pitcher, and maybe a LF or 3rd baseman if they really wanted to make a couple of luxury signings. IMO the answer is an emphatic YES, and that we more or less wasted $18 million on Price over compensating for V-Mart going down.


May 1st, 2012, 4:46 pm
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Post Re: Tigers Season Opener
Once again, wjb...errr, the schwami...fails as a fake GM. Considering the barely adequate 2 baggers on the market and the fact we did sign a relief pitcher whos been lights out this year, you took a huge swing and a miss wjb. They were in on a LFer (the Cuban sensation). Dumbrowski apparently liked what young was going to bring to the table. Seems like he was still drooling over his ALDS game tape from last year. However, the dood did hit very well after the trade to the tigs last year. So, LF was not necessarily a need.

The tigs hit .211 over the past 10 games. 2nd baseman and relief pitcher? Swing and a miss.

Porcello torched for over a 13 ERA in his past 2 starts. Scherzer looking like an A ball pitcher. Fister hurt. All solved by a 2nd baseman and relief pitcher? Again, swing and a miss.

Miggy has been hitting after an awful drought for a few games of that stretch (but he's hitting damn well as of late), it's these other guys....Avila, peralta, young, boesch, etc. that have not. Blame signing prince and moving miggy to 3rd all you want, but anybody who watches the games knows your comment is simply full of hot air.

It's the starting pitching (not named verlander or smyly) and the relievers who were NOT going to surrender their roles (valverde and Benoit) who have been subpar. it's the guys that nobody thought would look horrible (Avila, peralta, boesch, young) that aren't hitting their weight.

Would a stud 2nd baseman be great to have? Yes, but it wasn't going to happen because Raburn has nudies of old man smokey tucked away somewhere. They got a good reliever. So there's little weight to a comment that is partially untrue.

Now if they wanted a luxury signing, sign a big name pitcher. Sign a stud.

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May 1st, 2012, 10:56 pm
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Post Re: Tigers Season Opener
conversion02 wrote:
Once again, wjb...errr, the schwami...fails as a fake GM. Considering the barely adequate 2 baggers on the market and the fact we did sign a relief pitcher whos been lights out this year, you took a huge swing and a miss wjb. They were in on a LFer (the Cuban sensation). Dumbrowski apparently liked what young was going to bring to the table. Seems like he was still drooling over his ALDS game tape from last year. However, the dood did hit very well after the trade to the tigs last year. So, LF was not necessarily a need.

The tigs hit .211 over the past 10 games. 2nd baseman and relief pitcher? Swing and a miss.

Porcello torched for over a 13 ERA in his past 2 starts. Scherzer looking like an A ball pitcher. Fister hurt. All solved by a 2nd baseman and relief pitcher? Again, swing and a miss.

Miggy has been hitting after an awful drought for a few games of that stretch (but he's hitting damn well as of late), it's these other guys....Avila, peralta, young, boesch, etc. that have not. Blame signing prince and moving miggy to 3rd all you want, but anybody who watches the games knows your comment is simply full of hot air.

It's the starting pitching (not named verlander or smyly) and the relievers who were NOT going to surrender their roles (valverde and Benoit) who have been subpar. it's the guys that nobody thought would look horrible (Avila, peralta, boesch, young) that aren't hitting their weight.

Would a stud 2nd baseman be great to have? Yes, but it wasn't going to happen because Raburn has nudies of old man smokey tucked away somewhere. They got a good reliever. So there's little weight to a comment that is partially untrue.

Now if they wanted a luxury signing, sign a big name pitcher. Sign a stud.


You've been a whiny little b!tch lately, but whatever, you're good at it. Keep it up, it really adds to the depth of conversation... :finger: :roll:

What relieve pitcher are you talking about? Collin Balester? A career 5.10 era pitcher? He's the relief stud that we added? Are you out of your mind? We've lost at least 3 games this year because our damn bullpen couldn't hold it down, and I'm sure that has an effect on our starting pitchers confidence.

And tell me, smartass, which one of our starting pitchers would YOU have replaced? I see no problem with our starting pitching, other than the fact that we're under performing right now. In fact, I think we have one of the best starting rotations in the league. If Dumbrowski was ANY kind of manager Schlereth wouldn't have been on this roster at the start of the season. The guy was absolutely PUTRID, and he sucked just as bad last year. He was a waste of a roster spot, and should have been replaced.

You think we were set with a platoon of Young, Dirks, Boesch, Kelly, and Co. in LF? Amazing... Just amazing, and you want to question my judgment?


The bottom line is this would be a better team had we spent the money we spent on Fielder elsewhere, period. Filling other holes was much more important than filling one hole (which was more or less a DH, we weren't even interested in Prince until V-Mart went down) and creating other problems, and now the team is suffering for it, and it will continue to suffer all season. Dombrowski is a horrible GM whose biggest accomplishment was getting one amazing ball player (Pudge) to sign here and turn this team around. He has ran this team with a black check and wasted hundreds of millions (close to a 1/2 billion dollars) of Illitch's money, and he's looked at as a success. I don't get it...


May 2nd, 2012, 1:41 pm
Post Re: Tigers Season Opener
Loved our relief pitching today :roll:


May 2nd, 2012, 4:15 pm
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Post Re: Tigers Season Opener
This team is hard to watch right now, KC? Really, come on?!

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May 2nd, 2012, 5:06 pm
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Post Re: Tigers Season Opener
Lions2SB2 wrote:
This team is hard to watch right now, KC? Really, come on?!


KC has always had our number. It's the Texas Rangers losses that stick in my craw. They continue to clearly dominate us and it leads me to believe that even if we do turn it around and make the playoffs, the ride will end as soon as we bump up against Texas.


May 2nd, 2012, 9:56 pm
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Post Re: Tigers Season Opener
The Tigers definitely have some flaws but Im not ready to give up on the season. They were 18-18 last season and just 28-26 at the end of May with complete desperation for relief pitching - benoit had a rough start and they had to make a desperate trade for garbage player david purcey and even fired there pitching coach.

This team seems to be better situated as far as numbers in the bullpen - Phil Coke is solid as a lefty specialist who can pitch an inning or two. colin balester is being overused but im happy with his pitching and if he were limited to one inning outings he d be a lot better, he s not a star and probably doesnt have ryan perry's potential but he just seems a lot more consistent on an outing to outing basis. Duana Below has been very valuable in long relief. Dotel has been better than expected. Benoit and Valverde havent gotten off to good starts but they have good track records and should be able to straighten things out. I dont see getting much production out of putkonen/villareal/schlereth anytime soon but if Al Al can make it back midseason thats a huge addition. Coke/Al Al/Dotel/Benoit/Valverde in late game situations with Below/Balester in more of the long/mop up roles should be a decent bullpen.

Starting pitching has to be a lot better. Short outings by Porcello/Scherzer cant be tolerated no matter how good or bad the bullpen is. Verlander looks like he will catching fire soon. Im not sure what leyland is thinking pushing the pitch count up so high in April but Verlander is probably the one guy that can get away with it. I think Scherzer will always be someone who will be a little inconsistent - he will let you down and you dont always know what you are getting inning to inning let alone outing to outing but he shows some flashes of brilliance for some stretches. We havent seen it yet in 2012 but it will come. Porcello had the one disaster and I worry that he will be affected by the even worse defense around him this season but he s shown an ability to pitch deeper in games than in the past. smylyl hasnt given up more than a run an outing. we need fister back and scherzer to straighten up. it seems correctable and outside of a long term injury i dont see a need for another starter.

defense - the defense sucks. cabrera looks like he s having fun and trying hard, has a good arm and is moving better than he was in 2008 but he still misses a lot of balls that most 3B would get. a little more than 1 a series. 2b is still a joke, raburn is bad anywhere you put him, inge looked lost there. peralta doesnt have much range and his arm is just adequate for ss. fielder is better at 1b than cabrera was a year ago at least. outfield defense has been bad, boesch takes an hour and a half to make a throw and has been off target, young and kelly have both blown plays in left. fortunately jackson covers a ton of ground out there. laird the other day badly butchered a play at the plate where he didnt block the plate and tagged the runner way up at the midsection when the throw clearly beat the runner. avila has had trouble with wild pitches/past balls but his throwing arm and quickness are getting way better.

hitting - the one critique i have on leyland is batting brennan boesch at No 2 where he hit .211 in 142 at bats last season. boesch was a .339 hitter in 186 at bats hitting 3rd. this is a change that needs to happen problem is there isnt another batter that profiles well as a No 2 hitter. Avila would be my choice vs RHP and Peralta vs LHP. Cabrera is off to a good start hitting but Prince Fielder hasnt. While I think he will do better its clear he is not really an upgrade over 2011 Victor Martinez. Fielder has had just 5 extra base hits and is 0-4 with the bases loaded. The other problem is they are pitching around him with runners on quite a bit which means he basically either slaps a single or gets walked. This points us to the real culprit which is Delmon Young hitting 242, 45 points below his career average. He cant make it so easy for opposing pitchers to walk Fielder with runners on. Im not sure I expect Raburn or Santiago to contribute much hitting and I doubt Dirks will keep up his pace so that leaves a couple spots where we could maybe make decent upgrades if need be with a midseason trade.

Offseason criticism - again its that they didnt really have a plan entering the offseason. Until Vmart went down they showed passive interest in a 5th starter which never really made sense bc they were talking about spending big on someone who wouldnt be able to win a playoff game for them anyway. They did make a couple solid bullpen moves by giving up on perry for Balester and adding Dotel. But all along apparently there was 214 million that they were willing to spend? Why not pay part of Delmon Young's salary throw in a low level prospect and trade him to ATL for Martin Prado who could play 2B and bat No 2. This was a rumored trade that apparently the Tigers wouldnt quite cough enough up to complete. They could have easily made a run at Aramis Ramirez to play 3b - he hasnt been great this season but he usually comes around mid May or so. They also even would have had enough money to make a play for Reyes to play SS or 2B but lets stay within reason. When Martinez went down they could have made a play for Pena and they could have easily outbid the Rays or added an extra year. A clear step down from Fielder but a great value at 200 mill less and a much better defensive player if they could have gotten Cabrera to DH some. Finally LF they could have completed there courtship of Yoennis Cespedes to play LF which is what Dombrowski seemed to have wanted to be his big splash this offseason. Alternate offseason lineup would be Jackson CF/Prado 2B/Boesch RF/Cabrera 1b/Pena DH/Ramirez 3b/Cespedes LF/Avila C/Peralta SS - thats a much cheaper lineup than what they have now but really has no holes in it.

Projection - I still think this Tigers team will hit its stride. They will have more games similar to the opening two weeks when the offense was wreaking havoc. Fister wil make it back and be fine (4IP 2 H 0 R for AAA tonight), Porcello will get another 13-15 wins, Scherzer will clean it up. Smyly looks like a keeper so far and a definite upgrade over Penny though he may not last all season. If Jacob Turner makes it up this season then someone like Scherzer or Porcello immediately becomes a great trade chip or they have an outstanding extra bullpen arm. Tigers 1st in AL central, will face Texas in ALCS again but I dont see a World Series unless Verlander stays fresh/Fister repeats last season's success, one of Porcello/Scherzer really steps it up and they add another hitter to the lineup either to bat behind Fielder or hit No 2.


May 2nd, 2012, 10:49 pm
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Post Re: Tigers Season Opener
wjb21ndtown wrote:
You've been a whiny little b!tch lately, but whatever, you're good at it. Keep it up, it really adds to the depth of conversation... :finger: :roll:


Thanks for the name calling. Keep it up and find yourself unable to log into the website [-X

wjb21ndtown wrote:
What relieve pitcher are you talking about? Collin Balester? A career 5.10 era pitcher? He's the relief stud that we added? Are you out of your mind? We've lost at least 3 games this year because our damn bullpen couldn't hold it down, and I'm sure that has an effect on our starting pitchers confidence.


Wow, you're good at showing how few games you actually watch. Don't know if you've actually watched a game this year, but that 7th inning guy named Octavio Dotel, who's got a whopping 0.00 ERA and a 0.692 WHIP in 8.2 innings this year. Yeah, that's a stud. FYI - Balester wasn't a signing, they traded one crappy pitcher for another (i.e. Ryan Perry).

Oh, and to answer your question about the bullpen, it's the fault of guys who were already here and who were not going to have their roles taken away from them by Leyland (Benoit and Valverde). So signing the most expensive reliever you can get would have been pointless. We got a damn good one and he has earned his paycheck thus far. Why bitch about not signing a reliever? They did and it's worked out. Bitch about the guys who were already here who aren't performing this year.

Last season, the Tigs never lost after leading in the 7th inning. THis year? Hell, they just lost another one tonight to the Royals, thanks to Benoit getting the loss in the 9th. Benoit and Valverde have been average at best so far this year. Both unpredictable and wild.

wjb21ndtown wrote:
And tell me, smartass, which one of our starting pitchers would YOU have replaced? I see no problem with our starting pitching, other than the fact that we're under performing right now. In fact, I think we have one of the best starting rotations in the league.


First of all, signing a damn good starting pitcher (i.e, Darvish, Wilson, etc) would have allowed the TIgs to put someone else in the pen as a long reliever. Below has been great as a long reliever (12 IP, 0 ER), but since when do you NOT need that experienced ace in the hole spot starter? They signed Zach Miner. Seriously? Having that extra guy (Texas was shopping Feldman around awhile back) would allow them much more flexibility than pulling this Adam Wilk, Andy Oliver, Duane Below, etc spot start bullcrap we've seen over the past 2 years.

Porcello is nothing special. He's young, but he has to string it together over an entire season...same with Scherzer. They both have great stuff, but they can't string it together consistently. The point is, this is not a great pitching staff and it sure as hell showed in the ALCS last season. Do you have any beefs with the Rangers pitching staff? Do they not have a massive excess of starting pitching? They move starters into the reliever role and so on every single year. It seems to work damn well for them. You can NEVER have too many GOOD pitchers.

wjb21ndtown wrote:
If Dumbrowski was ANY kind of manager Schlereth wouldn't have been on this roster at the start of the season. The guy was absolutely PUTRID, and he sucked just as bad last year. He was a waste of a roster spot, and should have been replaced.


OK, you obviously didn't watch the games the past 2 years and are only basing that judgment off of his awfulness this year. I guess to you a 2.89 ERA in 2010 and a 3.49 in 2011 are putrid numbers? Interesting. 70% of the league must be putrid in your eyes. He has control issues, yes. He walks far too many, but so does Valverde, Benoit, and so on. It's a common theme. He had a higher WHIP in 2010 than you'd like to see, but it was pretty solid in 2011. Again, you are apparently only basing this off his 2012 performance.

wjb21ndtown wrote:
You think we were set with a platoon of Young, Dirks, Boesch, Kelly, and Co. in LF? Amazing... Just amazing, and you want to question my judgment?


Wow, not only do you not watch the games, you can't read either. I didn't say I was happy with that setup, I said Dumbrowski apparently was. I thought literacy was a requirement to become a lawyer... I hate Ryan Raburn, but Leyland trots his sorry rectum out there day in and day out. Not because there's not better options. They pass up better options every year, but they keep handing this clown starting gigs.

Young earned a starting shot by his play last season after the trade and his postseason play. I'm not against that, but I would have much rather had Cespedes though, and I said that many times on MLIVE.

No, I'm not happy with the setup in the outfield, but you either have faith in 2/3 guys out there or you don't. Personally, I only had much faith in Boesch and Dirks. Young's a defensive liability and Cespedes would have been a great signing so Young could DH, especially with VMart out. By signing Cespedes, Boesch and Dirks platoon would have been decent and you have good speed and defense in the OF.

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May 2nd, 2012, 11:36 pm
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Post Re: Tigers Season Opener
im sorry co2 but cant agree with you on the schelereth part, he is very unreliable in key situations. his stats are hugely misleading, i noticed you didnt list his WHIP which has been terrible. his control problems are far worse than anything ive seen from benoit or valverde. not quite dontrelle willis but bad very bad


May 3rd, 2012, 12:29 am
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Post Re: Tigers Season Opener
conversion02 wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
You've been a whiny little b!tch lately, but whatever, you're good at it. Keep it up, it really adds to the depth of conversation... :finger: :roll:


Thanks for the name calling. Keep it up and find yourself unable to log into the website [-X

wjb21ndtown wrote:
What relieve pitcher are you talking about? Collin Balester? A career 5.10 era pitcher? He's the relief stud that we added? Are you out of your mind? We've lost at least 3 games this year because our damn bullpen couldn't hold it down, and I'm sure that has an effect on our starting pitchers confidence.


Wow, you're good at showing how few games you actually watch. Don't know if you've actually watched a game this year, but that 7th inning guy named Octavio Dotel, who's got a whopping 0.00 ERA and a 0.692 WHIP in 8.2 innings this year. Yeah, that's a stud. FYI - Balester wasn't a signing, they traded one crappy pitcher for another (i.e. Ryan Perry).

Oh, and to answer your question about the bullpen, it's the fault of guys who were already here and who were not going to have their roles taken away from them by Leyland (Benoit and Valverde). So signing the most expensive reliever you can get would have been pointless. We got a damn good one and he has earned his paycheck thus far. Why bitch about not signing a reliever? They did and it's worked out. Bitch about the guys who were already here who aren't performing this year.

Last season, the Tigs never lost after leading in the 7th inning. THis year? Hell, they just lost another one tonight to the Royals, thanks to Benoit getting the loss in the 9th. Benoit and Valverde have been average at best so far this year. Both unpredictable and wild.

wjb21ndtown wrote:
And tell me, smartass, which one of our starting pitchers would YOU have replaced? I see no problem with our starting pitching, other than the fact that we're under performing right now. In fact, I think we have one of the best starting rotations in the league.


First of all, signing a damn good starting pitcher (i.e, Darvish, Wilson, etc) would have allowed the TIgs to put someone else in the pen as a long reliever. Below has been great as a long reliever (12 IP, 0 ER), but since when do you NOT need that experienced ace in the hole spot starter? They signed Zach Miner. Seriously? Having that extra guy (Texas was shopping Feldman around awhile back) would allow them much more flexibility than pulling this Adam Wilk, Andy Oliver, Duane Below, etc spot start bullcrap we've seen over the past 2 years.

Porcello is nothing special. He's young, but he has to string it together over an entire season...same with Scherzer. They both have great stuff, but they can't string it together consistently. The point is, this is not a great pitching staff and it sure as hell showed in the ALCS last season. Do you have any beefs with the Rangers pitching staff? Do they not have a massive excess of starting pitching? They move starters into the reliever role and so on every single year. It seems to work damn well for them. You can NEVER have too many GOOD pitchers.

wjb21ndtown wrote:
If Dumbrowski was ANY kind of manager Schlereth wouldn't have been on this roster at the start of the season. The guy was absolutely PUTRID, and he sucked just as bad last year. He was a waste of a roster spot, and should have been replaced.


OK, you obviously didn't watch the games the past 2 years and are only basing that judgment off of his awfulness this year. I guess to you a 2.89 ERA in 2010 and a 3.49 in 2011 are putrid numbers? Interesting. 70% of the league must be putrid in your eyes. He has control issues, yes. He walks far too many, but so does Valverde, Benoit, and so on. It's a common theme. He had a higher WHIP in 2010 than you'd like to see, but it was pretty solid in 2011. Again, you are apparently only basing this off his 2012 performance.

wjb21ndtown wrote:
You think we were set with a platoon of Young, Dirks, Boesch, Kelly, and Co. in LF? Amazing... Just amazing, and you want to question my judgment?


Wow, not only do you not watch the games, you can't read either. I didn't say I was happy with that setup, I said Dumbrowski apparently was. I thought literacy was a requirement to become a lawyer... I hate Ryan Raburn, but Leyland trots his sorry rectum out there day in and day out. Not because there's not better options. They pass up better options every year, but they keep handing this clown starting gigs.

Young earned a starting shot by his play last season after the trade and his postseason play. I'm not against that, but I would have much rather had Cespedes though, and I said that many times on MLIVE.

No, I'm not happy with the setup in the outfield, but you either have faith in 2/3 guys out there or you don't. Personally, I only had much faith in Boesch and Dirks. Young's a defensive liability and Cespedes would have been a great signing so Young could DH, especially with VMart out. By signing Cespedes, Boesch and Dirks platoon would have been decent and you have good speed and defense in the OF.


You started this name calling bullsh!t days ago in this thread when you called Legend and I "chumps" for not agreeing with you. You've done nothing but follow me around lately in various threads and add nothing to the conversation except to say "wjb, you're wrong" without and basis or support. Like I've said, you've become a whiny little bitch, but you're good at it. Keep being a little weasel, it's very becoming of you. I'm not worried about getting banned from this site. It's rife with "group think" and anyone that says anything outside of the "norm" (on here) gets called stupid, dumb, crazy, etc. Some very prominent posters have left recently because of it. I talked to them off of this site and they say that they don't even feel like posting here anymore due to what has become of the site due to posters like yourself and others. Threaten me with banning, keep spewing insults and crying "FOUL... POOR ME... I'M THE VICTIM" when they come back your way... I'm not worried...



Who says I'm NOT bitching about Benoit? I think he should have been demoted, and we should have gotten a new "setup man." THAT'S MY WHOLE PHUCKIN' POINT! Schlereth should have never, NEVER been brought back. He was HORRIBLE. Going into the season with him on the roster was utterly irresponsible IF we were going to spend $18 million last off-season. You say Leyland wouldn't have taken Benoit's roster spot away, I disagree. If we signed a huge setup guy he wouldn't have had a choice.

Now you want to say that Leyland wouldn't have switched roster spots, BUT he WOULD have made a starter a reliever. Which is it? You make absolutely ZERO sense. But, IMO our starting pitching is just fine. Like I said, who would you replace? Porcello? We tried to pitch him out of the pen before and it didn't work. Some guys can't jump into the pace of a game and take it over. Some guys aren't cut out for relief work, but you can't seem to grasp that. You'd rather take a starter and move him to the pen than demote the setup guy for a good signing? That's ridiculous.


And again, you want to bitch about Rayburn being marched out there day after day, but you also want to say that we SHOULDN'T have signed a 2nd baseman. For whatever reason Leyland believes in Ryan moreso than other guys, but if you sign a FA to do a job Leyland is NOT going to bench that guy, especially at the behest of his boss.

You say Young "earned a starting job," but I disagree. He was NEVER solid with his glove, he only bats well and he was ALWAYS a liability in LF. We would CONSTANTLY pull him for Kelly if we were up and he was only used for his bat, which isn't all that great given he's a strikeout machine. I wouldn't have minded keeping him on as a DH, but again, you're bitching about my break down of last off-season, and agreeing with the moves I wanted to make. You seem like you just want to say "You're wrong" every chance you get, even if you agree with me. You're an argumentative little prick, and it doesn't lead to very good discussion.


May 3rd, 2012, 11:20 am
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Post Re: Tigers Season Opener
gentlemen...play nice! Ill turn this website right around and we'll all go home if you cant behave! [-X

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May 3rd, 2012, 2:49 pm
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