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 2013 draft. Looking ahead. 
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Post Re: 2013 draft. Looking ahead.
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The Lions have made it clear that their philosophy is to not reach for a need, and that Matt Stafford is going to be taken care of at all costs.[/quote] He is the centerpiece of the organization, and keeping him surrounded by weapons and upright is goal one. Does this mean they have to let the defense suffer? By no means, it just shows where the top resources go. Bentley and Greenwood could end up being our starters for 10 years, but since they aren't first or second round picks, we as a fan base will automatically discount their talent.



I dont agree with the bolded part or your post in general. The Lions dont draft according to what the media perceives as there need but they do draft players that they have a role and need for. Matt Stafford filled a huge need at QB, Ndamukong Suh filled a huge need on the defense. Brandon Pettigrew fit a huge need, so did Louis Delmas. Jahvid Best was a huge need and so was Mikel LeShoure. Titus Young and Ryan Broyles werent necessarily huge needs but the Lions were looking to build an offense capable of using 3 and 4 WR sets with success so they fit the profile and the system. Nick Fairley fit the need of having another pass rushing defensive tackle and being 8 deep on the d line to rotate lineman throughout a given game. riley reiff fit a need with jeff backus having only 1 year left on the defense. finally this draft where they take the last 6 picks as all OLB/CBs to contribute to a weak special teams should confirm that they draft for need. they didnt get the one or two blue chip players but instead drafted in bulk so that they have potential replacements with wright gone, levy/spievey ineffective, and durant/houson with soon to be expiring contracts.

so when you say they dont draft for need - i agree with you only to the extent that they dont go into the draft and say "okay our biggest need is CB, second is OL, third is LB so we must draft a CB in Rd 1, OL in Rd 2, LB in rd 3 and so on." they clearly draft for there need but not necessarily held hostage by which need is the biggest. they take the best player that will fill a need, not necessarily the biggest need.


May 2nd, 2012, 8:53 pm
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Post Re: 2013 draft. Looking ahead.
m2karateman wrote:
BillySims wrote:
Wayne Fontes wrote:
Although I ask this, odds that the Lions select an offensive player in the first round?


100%. We draft everything in pairs. So you just watch. We WILL draft another OT in the 1st round next year. And then turn around and draft either a WR, TE, or RB in the 2nd round since the NFL apparently mandated that the Lions use their 2nd pick on a WR, RB, or TE EVERY YEAR.


REALLY?! I didn't realize Ndamukong Suh was a QB for us. Or perhaps you meant our 2008 1st round pick, Gosder Cherilus? Since we took Stafford in the first round in 2009, one of those two MUST be our backup QB.

Have you learned nothing about Mayhew? He will draft whatever player he feels bring the most value. If it happens to be an offensive tackle, then that's what it will be. It's not like we couldn't use another one, particularly if neither Jason Fox nor Johnny Culbreath show the stuff to be starting material.


You apparently have forgotten about 3 WR in a row, 2 DT's in a row. And Mayhew and Schwartz both said that they would go BPA other than QB after we got Stafford. That's why I din't include Stafford in my comment.

2000 and 2001 we took OT's in the 1st Stockar McDonut and Jeff Backus.
2002 we took Joey Harrington
2003,2004,2005 we took WR's CRog, Roy Williams, Mike Williams.

And for another thing. You took my comment far too seriously.


May 2nd, 2012, 10:37 pm
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Post Re: 2013 draft. Looking ahead.
different people in charge


May 2nd, 2012, 11:00 pm
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Post Re: 2013 draft. Looking ahead.
The Legend wrote:
different people in charge


Mayhew didn't draft Suh and Fairley? Mayhew didn't take a RB with our 2nd pick 2 years in a row?

I never said it was all Mayhew/Schwartz that do it. We just seam to do everything in pairs.

Maybe by the year 2056 we will get around to taking a CB in the 1st round. :lol:


May 2nd, 2012, 11:38 pm
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Post Re: 2013 draft. Looking ahead.
cmon man you are posting about 3 wrs in a row and jeff backus and other prehistoric crud...

you nailed it man! mayhew's secret is to draft in pairs...


May 3rd, 2012, 12:31 am
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Post Re: 2013 draft. Looking ahead.
Billy, I'm as bothered as you that the Lions haven't been able to secure a really, really good corner prospect in what seems like eternity. However, what are they supposed to do? They tried to move up to get Peterson last year, and word has it this past draft they were trying to move up to get Kirkpatrick but got shut out. Nobody wanted to move down to our spot and miss out on a prospect they had their eyes on. They tried. But I agree with their take that they let the draft come to them and didn't reach in round one. Could they have maybe moved down? Yes...but why miss out on a tackle prospect that most considered to be a top 15 player? And, you can't say he doesn't fill a need.
So, what exactly were they supposed to do?

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May 3rd, 2012, 10:28 am
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Post Re: 2013 draft. Looking ahead.
m2karateman wrote:
Billy, I'm as bothered as you that the Lions haven't been able to secure a really, really good corner prospect in what seems like eternity. However, what are they supposed to do? They tried to move up to get Peterson last year, and word has it this past draft they were trying to move up to get Kirkpatrick but got shut out. Nobody wanted to move down to our spot and miss out on a prospect they had their eyes on. They tried. But I agree with their take that they let the draft come to them and didn't reach in round one. Could they have maybe moved down? Yes...but why miss out on a tackle prospect that most considered to be a top 15 player? And, you can't say he doesn't fill a need.
So, what exactly were they supposed to do?

Agree 100%

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May 3rd, 2012, 10:55 am
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Post Re: 2013 draft. Looking ahead.
The Legend wrote:
cmon man you are posting about 3 wrs in a row and jeff backus and other prehistoric crud...

you nailed it man! mayhew's secret is to draft in pairs...


And again. You are taking this way too seriously. Even though I said this "tongue in cheek", you can't deny that we continue to draft positions in pairs. Suh and then Fairely. Same 2 years we used our 2nd pick on a RB. Now, this year, we are moving on to the next set of positions. OT and WR this year. Next year will be WR and TE. LOL. WR and TE being pretty much the same thing anymore.


May 4th, 2012, 11:35 am
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Post Re: 2013 draft. Looking ahead.
Touchdown Jesus wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
Billy, I'm as bothered as you that the Lions haven't been able to secure a really, really good corner prospect in what seems like eternity. However, what are they supposed to do? They tried to move up to get Peterson last year, and word has it this past draft they were trying to move up to get Kirkpatrick but got shut out. Nobody wanted to move down to our spot and miss out on a prospect they had their eyes on. They tried. But I agree with their take that they let the draft come to them and didn't reach in round one. Could they have maybe moved down? Yes...but why miss out on a tackle prospect that most considered to be a top 15 player? And, you can't say he doesn't fill a need.
So, what exactly were they supposed to do?

Agree 100%


Yeah. They missed on moving up for KirkPatrick. And I never said that OT wasn't a position of need. WR in the 2nd round, however, was most certainly not a need. We should have done whatever we needed to do to get Jenkins in the 2nd round. He is a risk. I admit. But, I believe he has learned his lessons. The report that he continued to smoke the herb while at Northern Alabama were proven to be false. And Jenkins was widely considered to be the 2nd best CB as far as talent goes in this draft. I think it was a risk worth taking. And Jenkins was worth giving up both our 3rd and 4th round picks for.


May 4th, 2012, 11:43 am
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Post Re: 2013 draft. Looking ahead.
BillySims wrote:
Yeah. They missed on moving up for KirkPatrick. And I never said that OT wasn't a position of need. WR in the 2nd round, however, was most certainly not a need. We should have done whatever we needed to do to get Jenkins in the 2nd round. He is a risk. I admit. But, I believe he has learned his lessons. The report that he continued to smoke the herb while at Northern Alabama were proven to be false. And Jenkins was widely considered to be the 2nd best CB as far as talent goes in this draft. I think it was a risk worth taking. And Jenkins was worth giving up both our 3rd and 4th round picks for.


I won't disagree that the Lions should have made a serious attempt at moving up to get Jenkins. Perhaps they did try. We won't know. Whatever the case, and whether you or I agree with it, the Lions taking Jenkins could have been a publicity nightmare for this team, particularly if he gets caught with weed again. Maybe they simply chose to avoid moving up to get him and hoped he would fall. Again, we'll never know.

And I disagree that we didn't need a receiver. I think we did....just not necessarily in the second round, and I definitely didn't think we needed another slot type receiver. But, he is a damn good ball player when he's healthy, and he could bring to the offense the same spark Titus Young did. My preference would have been for the Lions to get another big receiver. But, perhaps they see enough in Terrance Tolliver (who was pretty good at LSU) to feel they already have that big possession receiver.

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May 4th, 2012, 1:24 pm
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Post Re: 2013 draft. Looking ahead.
m2karateman wrote:
BillySims wrote:
Yeah. They missed on moving up for KirkPatrick. And I never said that OT wasn't a position of need. WR in the 2nd round, however, was most certainly not a need. We should have done whatever we needed to do to get Jenkins in the 2nd round. He is a risk. I admit. But, I believe he has learned his lessons. The report that he continued to smoke the herb while at Northern Alabama were proven to be false. And Jenkins was widely considered to be the 2nd best CB as far as talent goes in this draft. I think it was a risk worth taking. And Jenkins was worth giving up both our 3rd and 4th round picks for.


I won't disagree that the Lions should have made a serious attempt at moving up to get Jenkins. Perhaps they did try. We won't know. Whatever the case, and whether you or I agree with it, the Lions taking Jenkins could have been a publicity nightmare for this team, particularly if he gets caught with weed again. Maybe they simply chose to avoid moving up to get him and hoped he would fall. Again, we'll never know.

And I disagree that we didn't need a receiver. I think we did....just not necessarily in the second round, and I definitely didn't think we needed another slot type receiver. But, he is a damn good ball player when he's healthy, and he could bring to the offense the same spark Titus Young did. My preference would have been for the Lions to get another big receiver. But, perhaps they see enough in Terrance Tolliver (who was pretty good at LSU) to feel they already have that big possession receiver.


Quote:
WR in the 2nd round, however, was most certainly not a need.


The key part of that statement is bolded for you now.

I did not say that we don't need a WR. But, we did not need a 2nd round WR. Especially one that I think will just get stashed on IR this year. I do not see how, if he will not be ready to work out until mid season, how a rookie WR can help this team this year? It's just not going to happen.


May 4th, 2012, 1:40 pm
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Post Re: 2013 draft. Looking ahead.
[quote="BillySims"]. WR in the 2nd round, however, was most certainly not a need.quote]

Since when did Mayhew start drafting for need?

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May 5th, 2012, 11:24 am
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Post Re: 2013 draft. Looking ahead.
BillySims wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
BillySims wrote:
Yeah. They missed on moving up for KirkPatrick. And I never said that OT wasn't a position of need. WR in the 2nd round, however, was most certainly not a need. We should have done whatever we needed to do to get Jenkins in the 2nd round. He is a risk. I admit. But, I believe he has learned his lessons. The report that he continued to smoke the herb while at Northern Alabama were proven to be false. And Jenkins was widely considered to be the 2nd best CB as far as talent goes in this draft. I think it was a risk worth taking. And Jenkins was worth giving up both our 3rd and 4th round picks for.


I won't disagree that the Lions should have made a serious attempt at moving up to get Jenkins. Perhaps they did try. We won't know. Whatever the case, and whether you or I agree with it, the Lions taking Jenkins could have been a publicity nightmare for this team, particularly if he gets caught with weed again. Maybe they simply chose to avoid moving up to get him and hoped he would fall. Again, we'll never know.

And I disagree that we didn't need a receiver. I think we did....just not necessarily in the second round, and I definitely didn't think we needed another slot type receiver. But, he is a damn good ball player when he's healthy, and he could bring to the offense the same spark Titus Young did. My preference would have been for the Lions to get another big receiver. But, perhaps they see enough in Terrance Tolliver (who was pretty good at LSU) to feel they already have that big possession receiver.



Quote:
WR in the 2nd round, however, was most certainly not a need.


The key part of that statement is bolded for you now.

I did not say that we don't need a WR. But, we did not need a 2nd round WR. Especially one that I think will just get stashed on IR this year. I do not see how, if he will not be ready to work out until mid season, how a rookie WR can help this team this year? It's just not going to happen.


Where are you seeing mid season? He's already been working out. ACL's aren't the long-term injury that they used to be. Even Suggs is planning on being ready by October and he just injured his.

As for how a rookie WR can help... Broyles has what Young had. Hands. Most receivers struggle with Pro routes, but that is something that is coached. You don't coach hands. Either you have it or you don't. How many times did we complain about drops? How many times did we complain that no one is taking attention from CJ? CJ will always draw attention, so you place receivers on the field that will hurt you for blanketing CJ. Davies and Stovall didn't hurt anyone. Most are looking at that 4th WR or even 3rd WR slot as a luxury, but in Linehans offense, those are on the field so often, you can't just overlook them.


May 5th, 2012, 12:17 pm
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Post Re: 2013 draft. Looking ahead.
my ONLY disagreement with you NJ is that linehan doesn't really run a 4 wr set all that often. he prefers (at least here and in Minny) a 2 TE set with 3 WR's. what this does is gives us a guy who can perform next year and allow us to let Nate go and free up some cap space.

I look at this pick as a future move. Mayhew HAS to look past this year. with Nates salary, he is going to have to go next contract, we will need to replace him. To me it was a smart move to train his replacement before he leaves. I would have prefered Konz (as he would be doing the same thing for our Center situation) but I can't see why anyone would be angry with the pick....so long as he can come back healthy.

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May 5th, 2012, 12:38 pm
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Post Re: 2013 draft. Looking ahead.
regularjoe12 wrote:
my ONLY disagreement with you NJ is that linehan doesn't really run a 4 wr set all that often. he prefers (at least here and in Minny) a 2 TE set with 3 WR's. what this does is gives us a guy who can perform next year and allow us to let Nate go and free up some cap space.

I look at this pick as a future move. Mayhew HAS to look past this year. with Nates salary, he is going to have to go next contract, we will need to replace him. To me it was a smart move to train his replacement before he leaves. I would have prefered Konz (as he would be doing the same thing for our Center situation) but I can't see why anyone would be angry with the pick....so long as he can come back healthy.


Well said.

Not to mention before the draft Mayhew said that they might select players with "future" in mind. I'd say the Broyles pick fits that pretty well.

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May 5th, 2012, 2:34 pm
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