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 Lions select Ryan Broyles, WR, OK (Rd. 2) 
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Post Re: Lions select Ryan Broyles, WR, OK (Rd. 2)
BillySims wrote:
And so what. We drafted 3 CB's. They are all interesting. But, Given the level that they played at, drafting 3 of them is akin to throwing 3 turds at the wall and seeing which one sticks.

This kind of cracks me up. But consider these pro bowl CBs:

Charles Tillman went to Louisiana-Lafayette.
Devin McCourty was a pro bowler as a rookie and he went to Rutgers
Brent Grimes went to Shippensburg
Asante Samuel went to Central Florida
Terence Newman went to Kansas State
Mike Jenkins went to South Florida
Al Harris went to Texas A&M - Kingsville (Division II - not the main A&M campus)

and so on. My point is that there are tons of good CBs who are from smaller schools and/or DII schools, etc. Star players can come from anywhere. Don't dismiss them simply because they are not from a big name program.

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May 2nd, 2012, 2:15 pm
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Post Re: Lions select Ryan Broyles, WR, OK (Rd. 2)
Touchdown Jesus wrote:
BillySims wrote:
And so what. We drafted 3 CB's. They are all interesting. But, Given the level that they played at, drafting 3 of them is akin to throwing 3 turds at the wall and seeing which one sticks.

This kind of cracks me up. But consider these pro bowl CBs:

Charles Tillman went to Louisiana-Lafayette.
Devin McCourty was a pro bowler as a rookie and he went to Rutgers
Brent Grimes went to Shippensburg
Asante Samuel went to Central Florida
Terence Newman went to Kansas State
Mike Jenkins went to South Florida
Al Harris went to Texas A&M - Kingsville (Division II - not the main A&M campus)

and so on. My point is that there are tons of good CBs who are from smaller schools and/or DII schools, etc. Star players can come from anywhere. Don't dismiss them simply because they are not from a big name program.



Just curious... Were any of them DIII?


May 2nd, 2012, 2:17 pm
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Post Re: Lions select Ryan Broyles, WR, OK (Rd. 2)
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Touchdown Jesus wrote:
BillySims wrote:
And so what. We drafted 3 CB's. They are all interesting. But, Given the level that they played at, drafting 3 of them is akin to throwing 3 turds at the wall and seeing which one sticks.

This kind of cracks me up. But consider these pro bowl CBs:

Charles Tillman went to Louisiana-Lafayette.
Devin McCourty was a pro bowler as a rookie and he went to Rutgers
Brent Grimes went to Shippensburg
Asante Samuel went to Central Florida
Terence Newman went to Kansas State
Mike Jenkins went to South Florida
Al Harris went to Texas A&M - Kingsville (Division II - not the main A&M campus)

and so on. My point is that there are tons of good CBs who are from smaller schools and/or DII schools, etc. Star players can come from anywhere. Don't dismiss them simply because they are not from a big name program.



Just curious... Were any of them DIII?

Not that I know of, and the odds that he becomes a great player are slim. But he was also a 5th round pick. The expectations shouldn't be that high. 5th rounders rarely become star players. It could happen though.

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May 2nd, 2012, 2:23 pm
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Post Re: Lions select Ryan Broyles, WR, OK (Rd. 2)
Ummmm.....are we done discussing Broyles on this thread? Cause it seems that way......

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May 2nd, 2012, 5:26 pm
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Post Re: Lions select Ryan Broyles, WR, OK (Rd. 2)
Touchdown Jesus wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Touchdown Jesus wrote:
BillySims wrote:
And so what. We drafted 3 CB's. They are all interesting. But, Given the level that they played at, drafting 3 of them is akin to throwing 3 turds at the wall and seeing which one sticks.

This kind of cracks me up. But consider these pro bowl CBs:

Charles Tillman went to Louisiana-Lafayette.
Devin McCourty was a pro bowler as a rookie and he went to Rutgers
Brent Grimes went to Shippensburg
Asante Samuel went to Central Florida
Terence Newman went to Kansas State
Mike Jenkins went to South Florida
Al Harris went to Texas A&M - Kingsville (Division II - not the main A&M campus)

and so on. My point is that there are tons of good CBs who are from smaller schools and/or DII schools, etc. Star players can come from anywhere. Don't dismiss them simply because they are not from a big name program.





Just curious... Were any of them DIII?

Not that I know of, and the odds that he becomes a great player are slim. But he was also a 5th round pick. The expectations shouldn't be that high. 5th rounders rarely become star players. It could happen though.




Just count the number of non- division one players in the league , it's plenty . Greenwood can turn into a pretty good player, if you can play the game that is what matters, the level of comp plays a part, but if you can play who you played against doesn't matter all the time . He has the speed and size , Look @ Sammie Hill ..


May 2nd, 2012, 5:37 pm
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Post Re: Lions select Ryan Broyles, WR, OK (Rd. 2)
Touchdown Jesus wrote:
BillySims wrote:
And so what. We drafted 3 CB's. They are all interesting. But, Given the level that they played at, drafting 3 of them is akin to throwing 3 turds at the wall and seeing which one sticks.

This kind of cracks me up. But consider these pro bowl CBs:

Charles Tillman went to Louisiana-Lafayette.
Devin McCourty was a pro bowler as a rookie and he went to Rutgers
Brent Grimes went to Shippensburg
Asante Samuel went to Central Florida
Terence Newman went to Kansas State
Mike Jenkins went to South Florida
Al Harris went to Texas A&M - Kingsville (Division II - not the main A&M campus)

and so on. My point is that there are tons of good CBs who are from smaller schools and/or DII schools, etc. Star players can come from anywhere. Don't dismiss them simply because they are not from a big name program.


You misunderstand me. I am not in any way saying that any of them can't go on to a pro bowl/HOF career. I'm just not holding my breath waiting for it to happen.


May 2nd, 2012, 10:49 pm
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Post Re: Lions select Ryan Broyles, WR, OK (Rd. 2)
Touchdown Jesus wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Touchdown Jesus wrote:
BillySims wrote:
And so what. We drafted 3 CB's. They are all interesting. But, Given the level that they played at, drafting 3 of them is akin to throwing 3 turds at the wall and seeing which one sticks.

This kind of cracks me up. But consider these pro bowl CBs:

Charles Tillman went to Louisiana-Lafayette.
Devin McCourty was a pro bowler as a rookie and he went to Rutgers
Brent Grimes went to Shippensburg
Asante Samuel went to Central Florida
Terence Newman went to Kansas State
Mike Jenkins went to South Florida
Al Harris went to Texas A&M - Kingsville (Division II - not the main A&M campus)

and so on. My point is that there are tons of good CBs who are from smaller schools and/or DII schools, etc. Star players can come from anywhere. Don't dismiss them simply because they are not from a big name program.



Just curious... Were any of them DIII?

Not that I know of, and the odds that he becomes a great player are slim. But he was also a 5th round pick. The expectations shouldn't be that high. 5th rounders rarely become star players. It could happen though.


And there is my real point. If you want to fix the CB position, it really needs to be a 1st or 2nd rounder to find an adequate starter usually. ( Not saying you can't get one later. ) But, if the MLB is the QB of the Defense, then CB's are the WR's. CB's are really the only SKILL Position on Defense. It takes a higher grade of player to be a good CB. You get your higher grade players in the first 2 rounds.


May 2nd, 2012, 10:54 pm
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Post Re: Lions select Ryan Broyles, WR, OK (Rd. 2)
just off the top of my head asante samuel 2003 rd 4 draft pick, cortland finnegan 2006 rd 7 pick, brandon carr 2008 rd 5 pick


May 2nd, 2012, 10:57 pm
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Post Re: Lions select Ryan Broyles, WR, OK (Rd. 2)
The Legend wrote:
just off the top of my head asante samuel 2003 rd 4 draft pick, cortland finnegan 2006 rd 7 pick, brandon carr 2008 rd 5 pick


There are always going to be exceptions. And, I do believe that I said it is possible to get a good CB later. But, if you want to fix the CB spot, you better do it in the first 2 rounds. The success rate is far greater.


May 2nd, 2012, 11:22 pm
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Post Re: Lions select Ryan Broyles, WR, OK (Rd. 2)
BillySims wrote:
The Legend wrote:
just off the top of my head asante samuel 2003 rd 4 draft pick, cortland finnegan 2006 rd 7 pick, brandon carr 2008 rd 5 pick


There are always going to be exceptions. And, I do believe that I said it is possible to get a good CB later. But, if you want to fix the CB spot, you better do it in the first 2 rounds. The success rate is far greater.


The problem is the Lions don't look to fix anything in the draft, they are only looking to draft talent. They have stated many times they don't draft by needs. I'm sure need plays into their board a little bit, but its obviously not a major factor. I don't think when they took the 3 CBs late they were saying they needed DBs, they were just looking at their board and the available CB happened to be at or near the top of they're board.


May 3rd, 2012, 12:01 am
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Post Re: Lions select Ryan Broyles, WR, OK (Rd. 2)
rao wrote:
BillySims wrote:
The Legend wrote:
just off the top of my head asante samuel 2003 rd 4 draft pick, cortland finnegan 2006 rd 7 pick, brandon carr 2008 rd 5 pick


There are always going to be exceptions. And, I do believe that I said it is possible to get a good CB later. But, if you want to fix the CB spot, you better do it in the first 2 rounds. The success rate is far greater.


The problem is the Lions don't look to fix anything in the draft, they are only looking to draft talent. They have stated many times they don't draft by needs. I'm sure need plays into their board a little bit, but its obviously not a major factor. I don't think when they took the 3 CBs late they were saying they needed DBs, they were just looking at their board and the available CB happened to be at or near the top of they're board.


And that is why our secondary will continue to get torched. Just drafting talent regardless of position is all fine and dandy when you are starting from scratch. But, after last years draft, and the season that followed, we are no longer starting from scratch. We are now into a whole nother phase in our development. With the team we fielded last season, if we did nothing else in this draft then to move up and get a guy like Kirkpatrick or Gilmore, I think it would of transformed the Lions from Playoff contender to Super Bowl Contender. If our DB's could have gotten just 2 more stops on 3rd down, in each of the last 2 games we played, we very well could have won both games.

I'm tired of reading all the IFs. If the D-line wasn't this or the RB's had gotten that etc. Sometimes, you just have to have the courage to believe what you see. CB's that suck. I'm not even sure Houston is all that great. He just appears to be good for us because QB's find easier targets on the other side of the field. In other words, he might only be the best turd in a toilet full of them.


May 3rd, 2012, 12:27 am
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Post Re: Lions select Ryan Broyles, WR, OK (Rd. 2)
of course you think that bc you think that either louisiana lafayette is div 3 or that bentley is from albion or who knows what other things you are mistakenly assuming. they just landed 3 CBs and all they need is one of those guys to be able to play some slot coverage.berry and lacey will battle for starting time. even alfonso smith who i want gone is better than what some other teams have as a No 3 and he s now probably no 5 on the depth chart.

they could have drafted bentley in rd 2 and you d be happy bc where they guy is picked determines how good they will be right? do your homework on bentley, he seems to have every bit the chance to succeed as the corners available when broyles was picked. forget about the round...


May 3rd, 2012, 12:34 am
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Post Re: Lions select Ryan Broyles, WR, OK (Rd. 2)
BillySims wrote:
rao wrote:
BillySims wrote:
The Legend wrote:
just off the top of my head asante samuel 2003 rd 4 draft pick, cortland finnegan 2006 rd 7 pick, brandon carr 2008 rd 5 pick


There are always going to be exceptions. And, I do believe that I said it is possible to get a good CB later. But, if you want to fix the CB spot, you better do it in the first 2 rounds. The success rate is far greater.


The problem is the Lions don't look to fix anything in the draft, they are only looking to draft talent. They have stated many times they don't draft by needs. I'm sure need plays into their board a little bit, but its obviously not a major factor. I don't think when they took the 3 CBs late they were saying they needed DBs, they were just looking at their board and the available CB happened to be at or near the top of they're board.


And that is why our secondary will continue to get torched. Just drafting talent regardless of position is all fine and dandy when you are starting from scratch. But, after last years draft, and the season that followed, we are no longer starting from scratch. We are now into a whole nother phase in our development. With the team we fielded last season, if we did nothing else in this draft then to move up and get a guy like Kirkpatrick or Gilmore, I think it would of transformed the Lions from Playoff contender to Super Bowl Contender. If our DB's could have gotten just 2 more stops on 3rd down, in each of the last 2 games we played, we very well could have won both games.

I'm tired of reading all the IFs. If the D-line wasn't this or the RB's had gotten that etc. Sometimes, you just have to have the courage to believe what you see. CB's that suck. I'm not even sure Houston is all that great. He just appears to be good for us because QB's find easier targets on the other side of the field. In other words, he might only be the best turd in a toilet full of them.


Teams that draft needs, reach. Drafting talent insures we remain perennial playoff contenders instead of in then drop off and rebuild again. Front offices don't make teams jump from playoff contenders to Super Bowl contenders, coaching and the players themselves do that. Desire is that last element that you can't draft, scheme or plan for. We had very little talent at 0-16. As we gained talent, we went 6-10. As we got a little depth, we went 10-6, now with more depth, its time for the desire to kick in. Now its all on the coaches and the players. 1 player wasn't going to change that. You can dislike the picks we made, but none of us here know how they'll fit in or play once on the field. We do know that we're even deeper going forward. When a need matches the best player available, then that's when you take that player, otherwise you're making a mistake.

As for Houston, he was the most targeted corner in the league, and had the best pass defensed ratio up until he was injured. So the QB's looking the other way wasn't the issue. They were looking right at him a majority of the time.


May 3rd, 2012, 12:47 am
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Post Re: Lions select Ryan Broyles, WR, OK (Rd. 2)
m2karateman wrote:
Ummmm.....are we done discussing Broyles on this thread? Cause it seems that way......

Agreed. Back on topic please :wink:

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May 3rd, 2012, 9:48 am
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Post Re: Lions select Ryan Broyles, WR, OK (Rd. 2)
rao wrote:
BillySims wrote:
The Legend wrote:
just off the top of my head asante samuel 2003 rd 4 draft pick, cortland finnegan 2006 rd 7 pick, brandon carr 2008 rd 5 pick


There are always going to be exceptions. And, I do believe that I said it is possible to get a good CB later. But, if you want to fix the CB spot, you better do it in the first 2 rounds. The success rate is far greater.


The problem is the Lions don't look to fix anything in the draft, they are only looking to draft talent. They have stated many times they don't draft by needs. I'm sure need plays into their board a little bit, but its obviously not a major factor. I don't think when they took the 3 CBs late they were saying they needed DBs, they were just looking at their board and the available CB happened to be at or near the top of they're board.


I can't really agree with this, not anymore. I do think Bentley was a good pick, and I think he could be a player, but I think that there were better options in the 3rd round. IMO Bobby Massie or Lemar Miller (we still don't' have a damn running back) would have been better "values" in the 3rd round, but we "needed" CBs. I really don't see how anyone can say that we got good "value" for the Bentley pick when he was a projected 3rd round CB and we passed on projected 2nd round guys to get him.


The Legend wrote:
of course you think that bc you think that either louisiana lafayette is div 3 or that bentley is from albion or who knows what other things you are mistakenly assuming. they just landed 3 CBs and all they need is one of those guys to be able to play some slot coverage.berry and lacey will battle for starting time. even alfonso smith who i want gone is better than what some other teams have as a No 3 and he s now probably no 5 on the depth chart.

they could have drafted bentley in rd 2 and you d be happy bc where they guy is picked determines how good they will be right? do your homework on bentley, he seems to have every bit the chance to succeed as the corners available when broyles was picked. forget about the round...



I agree with you completely about the round not mattering, and about it all being about the player. I also agree that Bentley is a good talent and has the potential to become a starting caliber NFL CB. My only issue is passing on Boynkin in rd. 4 for virtually nothing. I realize that some of these smaller school guys (Greenwood) can succeed, but we're likely going to be asking to make a position change (to FS) AND he has to adjust to the NFL. IMO his likelihood of success is minimal at best. He's a great story and a Detroit kid, and I love all of that, but IMO Boynkin would have been a much better pick, and a sure fire lock to play nickel (or better) for this team for years to come.


May 3rd, 2012, 11:37 am
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