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 Lions: One Big Question 

Did the Detroit Lions do enough to address their secondary?
Yes. I'm satisfied. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Yes. But I'm only a little concerned. 31%  31%  [ 8 ]
No. It's still the biggest weakness. 54%  54%  [ 14 ]
No. And I'll be disappointed if Mayhew doesn't fix it asap. 15%  15%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 26

 Lions: One Big Question 
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Post Re: Lions: One Big Question
FWIW:
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Future Book Odds

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Odds to Win 2013 Super Bowl XLVII
Team Odds
Green Bay Packers 5/1
Denver Broncos 7/1
New England Patriots 7/1
San Francisco 49ers 9/1
New Orleans Saints 10/1
Baltimore Ravens 12/1
Houston Texans 12/1
Philadelphia Eagles 12/1
New York Giants 15/1
Pittsburgh Steelers 15/1
Detroit Lions 25/1
Atlanta Falcons 25/1
New York Jets 25/1
Chicago Bears 25/1
San Diego Chargers 25/1
Dallas Cowboys 30/1
Cincinnati Bengals 30/1
Kansas City Chiefs 40/1
Carolina Panthers 40/1
Tennessee Titans 40/1
Seattle Seahawks 40/1
Miami Dolphins 40/1
Buffalo Bills 50/1
Oakland Raiders 50/1
Washington Redskins 50/1
Arizona Cardinals 60/1
St Louis Rams 100/1
Cleveland Browns 100/1
Tampa Bay Buccanneers 100/1
Minnesota Vikings 100/1
Indianapolis Colts 100/1
Jacksonville Jaguars 100/1


Odds to win 2013 NFC Championship
Team Odds
Green Bay Packers 5/2
San Francisco 49ers 4/1
New Orleans Saints 5/1
Philadelphia Eagles 6/1
New York Giants 7/1
Detroit Lions 12/1
Atlanta Falcons 15/1
Chicago Bears 15/1
Dallas Cowboys 15/1
Seattle Seahawks 20/1
Carolina Panthers 20/1
Arizona Cardinals 25/1
Minnesota Vikings 50/1
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 50/1
Washington Redskins 50/1
St Louis Rams 50/1


Odds to win 2013 AFC Championship
Team Odds
New England Patriots 3/1
Denver Broncos 3/1
Baltimore Ravens 5/1
Houston Texans 5/1
Pittsburgh Steelers 7/1
San Diego Chargers 8/1
New York Jets 11/1
Cincinnati Bengals 13/1
Kansas City Chiefs 15/1
Tennessee Titans 15/1
Miami Dolphins 18/1
Buffalo Bills 22/1
Oakland Raiders 25/1
Indianapolis Colts 30/1
Cleveland Browns 50/1
Jacksonville Jaguars 50/1

http://www.vegasinsider.com/nfl/odds/futures/

Not great, but not terrible either.
IMO bottom line is its too early to know how the season is going to go. FA is still going on. There is still the off-season programs. Inruries will occur - see T Suggs. Not too mention the all the player cuts that are upcoming.

Is it fun to speculate? Of course, but I think some times some peeps take it a bit to serious........or at least come off that way.

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May 4th, 2012, 11:04 pm
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Post Re: Lions: One Big Question
m2karateman wrote:
How many games the Lions win won't be based on defense, it will be based on the offense. If Stafford and Calvin stay healthy, we'll hang on for about 9 or 10 wins again, second in the NFCN again, with a chance at a wild card berth. Chicago didn't improve all that much. They can say whatever they want, but their draft picks don't impress me and their defense is getting worse each season. The Lions will definitely win one, and possibly both meetings. Minnesota is two wins. Green Bay did get better, but I think the Lions can beat them if they put it together.

While I agree that our secondary is an area of concern, the biggest concern isn't the corner playing opposite Houston, it's the safety playing next to Delmas. Improve that spot and your secondary gets much better. Improve the corner spot in question, and you've improved the secondary just a little.


This post is correct.

Billy, you gave permission to ridicule you, so I really want to go off (you were the "Same old knife in the gut" guy last year, I think, but I'm too lazy to look it up and verify, so apologies if I'm wrong), but it would be wrong of me to do, I think, because I don't post much and thus it would just cherry-picking. But if you're basing your argument on what Brees and the Packer offense--Rodgers or not, that offense is a machine--did to us, that's just not realistic. Few offenses are those offenses. And has been pointed out, the season doesn't start for four months, which in fairness you did acknowledge.

Your whole argument seems to be based on everyone in the world improving but us. We at least get a 50/50 shot at improving (will or won't). We're young and still learning what we have and what we can do. Health provided, I see us at 10 or 11 wins, with the losses including fewer wtf games and an overall savvier team for the playoffs. We're not ready to catch the Packers yet, all things equal, but we're a tougher out in the playoffs this year than last, I think.

While I can appreciate your penchant for doom and gloom--I've been hooked since Komlo led us in '79--you're only looking for quick-fixes and not long term development. It's been a long time since there was a perfect team in this league; you can still win big even missing a dimension. Your ultra-pessimism gets silly sometimes, though I still respect your opinion because you're clearly a fan. Sorry if I've offended with anything here.


May 5th, 2012, 3:21 am
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Post Re: Lions: One Big Question
fetumpsh wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
How many games the Lions win won't be based on defense, it will be based on the offense. If Stafford and Calvin stay healthy, we'll hang on for about 9 or 10 wins again, second in the NFCN again, with a chance at a wild card berth. Chicago didn't improve all that much. They can say whatever they want, but their draft picks don't impress me and their defense is getting worse each season. The Lions will definitely win one, and possibly both meetings. Minnesota is two wins. Green Bay did get better, but I think the Lions can beat them if they put it together.

While I agree that our secondary is an area of concern, the biggest concern isn't the corner playing opposite Houston, it's the safety playing next to Delmas. Improve that spot and your secondary gets much better. Improve the corner spot in question, and you've improved the secondary just a little.


This post is correct.

Billy, you gave permission to ridicule you, so I really want to go off (you were the "Same old knife in the gut" guy last year, I think, but I'm too lazy to look it up and verify, so apologies if I'm wrong), but it would be wrong of me to do, I think, because I don't post much and thus it would just cherry-picking. But if you're basing your argument on what Brees and the Packer offense--Rodgers or not, that offense is a machine--did to us, that's just not realistic. Few offenses are those offenses. And has been pointed out, the season doesn't start for four months, which in fairness you did acknowledge.

Your whole argument seems to be based on everyone in the world improving but us. We at least get a 50/50 shot at improving (will or won't). We're young and still learning what we have and what we can do. Health provided, I see us at 10 or 11 wins, with the losses including fewer wtf games and an overall savvier team for the playoffs. We're not ready to catch the Packers yet, all things equal, but we're a tougher out in the playoffs this year than last, I think.

While I can appreciate your penchant for doom and gloom--I've been hooked since Komlo led us in '79--you're only looking for quick-fixes and not long term development. It's been a long time since there was a perfect team in this league; you can still win big even missing a dimension. Your ultra-pessimism gets silly sometimes, though I still respect your opinion because you're clearly a fan. Sorry if I've offended with anything here.


My penchant for doom and gloom? I was among the first to predict more than 8 wins last year. I was certainly one of the first to predict more than 10 wins.

Here is the post you are referring to:

Quote:
BillySims
And are we any better overall? Not really. We strengthened a strength. Offensively and Defensively. We strengthened strengths. We are no better right now than we were. And we overpaid to do it. we will still have to out score other teams. And we will still lose too many games in the final seconds because our secondary can't stop anyone at hammer time. The end result will be the same as last year. I hope you loved that knife in the gut feeling. Because we are going to feel it some more next season.


Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:02 am


And I was right. We should have lost the Dallas game because our secondary, ( Yes, I realize that our DB's finally woke up and pulled their heads out of their butts). But, they shouldn't have had to hire a proctologist to find their heads in the 1st place.

We lost the 49ers game because our DB's failed to prevent Delanie Walker from catching a 6 yard pass for the go ahead and winning score. Yes, the 49ers did kick an additional FG on their next drive. But, the FG was inconsequential to them winning other than for insurance.

The Atlanta loss: I will give credit that our secondary played respectably in that game.

The Bears Loss: Again, I give credit to our secondary in this game. We lost this game due to 2 INT's returned for TD's and a moron punter that punted it to Hester who promptly took it to the house.

The Green bay loss in Ford field: Once again, our secondary played respectable.

The 1st Saints game: Yes, the officiating was horrible. The only thing that was even more horrible was our Secondary.

The Green Bay loss at Lambaugh: Our Secondary was putrid.

The playoff loss to the Saints: Our whole defense was putrid especially our secondary.


May 5th, 2012, 8:56 am
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Post Re: Lions: One Big Question
billy sims

Quote:
We are no better right now than we were


you wrote that as a prediction for the 2011 season compared to the 2010 season and at this point you think you were right??? that deserves a WOW!


May 5th, 2012, 9:11 am
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Post Re: Lions: One Big Question
The Legend wrote:
billy sims

Quote:
We are no better right now than we were


you wrote that as a prediction for the 2011 season compared to the 2010 season and at this point you think you were right??? that deserves a WOW!

I was thinking the same thing. The team was clearly better last year than in 2010. To claim anything else is absurd.

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May 5th, 2012, 10:36 am
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Post Re: Lions: One Big Question
BillySims wrote:
Here is the post you are referring to:

Quote:
BillySims
And are we any better overall? Not really. We strengthened a strength. Offensively and Defensively. We strengthened strengths. We are no better right now than we were. And we overpaid to do it. we will still have to out score other teams. And we will still lose too many games in the final seconds because our secondary can't stop anyone at hammer time. The end result will be the same as last year. I hope you loved that knife in the gut feeling. Because we are going to feel it some more next season.


Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:02 am


And I was right. We should have lost the Dallas game because our secondary, ( Yes, I realize that our DB's finally woke up and pulled their heads out of their butts). But, they shouldn't have had to hire a proctologist to find their heads in the 1st place.


Billy, do you realize how dumb you sound? You were right? A 6-10 team that goes 10-6 is no better?

BillySims wrote:
We lost the 49ers game because our DB's failed to prevent Delanie Walker from catching a 6 yard pass for the go ahead and winning score. Yes, the 49ers did kick an additional FG on their next drive. But, the FG was inconsequential to them winning other than for insurance.


It was the linebacker that missed the assignment, not the secondary. And one play doesn't make a win or loss, Billy. You should know that. Detroit missed a number of opportunities in that game to stop San Fran, and it wasn't related to stopping the pass all the time. Detroit also missed scoring chances on offense. The Lions didn't play a complete game.

BillySims wrote:
The Atlanta loss: I will give credit that our secondary played respectably in that game.

The Bears Loss: Again, I give credit to our secondary in this game. We lost this game due to 2 INT's returned for TD's and a moron punter that punted it to Hester who promptly took it to the house.

The Green bay loss in Ford field: Once again, our secondary played respectable.

The 1st Saints game: Yes, the officiating was horrible. The only thing that was even more horrible was our Secondary.

The Green Bay loss at Lambaugh: Our Secondary was putrid.

The playoff loss to the Saints: Our whole defense was putrid especially our secondary.


Our secondary didn't play well, but does that mean the offense was spectacular in all those games? And you keep saying 'secondary' about those games, but refuse to acknowledge that a good number of the players in that group were out or hurt in those final three games of the season.

You can't sit there and say the Lions "should have lost" whatever game, because the fact is they didn't. Whether they were behind by 3 or 30 points, it was the OFFENSE that scored enough points to win the game, and it was the DEFENSE that held on in those games. You want to feel like the Lions will be lucky to get 8 wins, be my guest. But to sit there and say the team didn't improve is just foolish. The team did improve in the draft. And they will continue to improve as roster cuts are made and new players are signed to compete.

The biggest obstacle to the Lions getting into the playoffs will be injuries.

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May 5th, 2012, 3:59 pm
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Post Re: Lions: One Big Question
The Legend wrote:
billy sims

Quote:
We are no better right now than we were


you wrote that as a prediction for the 2011 season compared to the 2010 season and at this point you think you were right??? that deserves a WOW!


You are taking an apple and comparing it to the orange I said I was right about.

I was right that our CB's suck.

Serious question, I am not making fun of you or anything: But, do you suffer from ADD? I need to know so that I will know how to respond to you in the future.


Last edited by BillySims on May 6th, 2012, 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.



May 5th, 2012, 8:32 pm
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Post Re: Lions: One Big Question
m2karateman wrote:
BillySims wrote:
Here is the post you are referring to:

Quote:
BillySims
And are we any better overall? Not really. We strengthened a strength. Offensively and Defensively. We strengthened strengths. We are no better right now than we were. And we overpaid to do it. we will still have to out score other teams. And we will still lose too many games in the final seconds because our secondary can't stop anyone at hammer time. The end result will be the same as last year. I hope you loved that knife in the gut feeling. Because we are going to feel it some more next season.


Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:02 am


And I was right. We should have lost the Dallas game because our secondary, ( Yes, I realize that our DB's finally woke up and pulled their heads out of their butts). But, they shouldn't have had to hire a proctologist to find their heads in the 1st place.


Billy, do you realize how dumb you sound? You were right? A 6-10 team that goes 10-6 is no better?

Do you realize how dumb you sound when you don't even realize what I was saying I was right about? Can't you see the bolded part that is as plain as the nose on your face? I know your not stupid. So, come on man. Your just looking to argue with me. There is nowhere that I said I was right about us not being any better overall. Obviously, I was wrong about that part 1 year ago. I was right about our DB's not being any better. Which, Ironically, is the part I bolded to tip you guys off as to what I was claiming to be right about. You know, a lot of arguments could be avoided if people would just learn to read common English.

BillySims wrote:
We lost the 49ers game because our DB's failed to prevent Delanie Walker from catching a 6 yard pass for the go ahead and winning score. Yes, the 49ers did kick an additional FG on their next drive. But, the FG was inconsequential to them winning other than for insurance.


It was the linebacker that missed the assignment, not the secondary. And one play doesn't make a win or loss, Billy. You should know that. Detroit missed a number of opportunities in that game to stop San Fran, and it wasn't related to stopping the pass all the time. Detroit also missed scoring chances on offense. The Lions didn't play a complete game.

So, our offense has to score every time they have the ball? You know darn well that that will never happen unless we are playing a team with a worse secondary than ours.

BillySims wrote:
The Atlanta loss: I will give credit that our secondary played respectably in that game.

The Bears Loss: Again, I give credit to our secondary in this game. We lost this game due to 2 INT's returned for TD's and a moron punter that punted it to Hester who promptly took it to the house.

The Green bay loss in Ford field: Once again, our secondary played respectable.

The 1st Saints game: Yes, the officiating was horrible. The only thing that was even more horrible was our Secondary.

The Green Bay loss at Lambaugh: Our Secondary was putrid.

The playoff loss to the Saints: Our whole defense was putrid especially our secondary.


Our secondary didn't play well, but does that mean the offense was spectacular in all those games? And you keep saying 'secondary' about those games, but refuse to acknowledge that a good number of the players in that group were out or hurt in those final three games of the season.

Thank you! you just made my point. In todays NFL, you need 3 Starting quality CB's. And when we are healthy, we only have 1 Starting quality CB. The other guy starts only through default.

You can't sit there and say the Lions "should have lost" whatever game, because the fact is they didn't. Whether they were behind by 3 or 30 points, it was the OFFENSE that scored enough points to win the game, and it was the DEFENSE that held on in those games. You want to feel like the Lions will be lucky to get 8 wins, be my guest. But to sit there and say the team didn't improve is just foolish. The team did improve in the draft. And they will continue to improve as roster cuts are made and new players are signed to compete.

Again, I reposted the whole text of what I said LAST YEAR because fetumpsh admitted he was too lazy to look up himself. I was bolded the part that I was claiming to be right about. You misunderstood the post. That is your problem. Not mine.

The biggest obstacle to the Lions getting into the playoffs will be injuries.


And the fact that our DB's stink! We have 1 starting quality CB and 1 Starting quality Safety. As for Spivey, he is entering his 3rd season as a Safety. He was learning the position the last 2 years. I assume he is finally ready to prove himself there this year. When learning a new position, the 3rd year is the make or break year. Otherwise, I would agree with you that Safety is even a bigger need than CB. But, I am giving Spivey the opportunity to prove himself to me before I climb on that band wagon.


May 6th, 2012, 1:08 pm
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Post Re: Lions: One Big Question
Quote:
You are taking an apple and comparing it to the orange I said I was right about.

I was right that our CB's suck.

Serious question, I am not making fun of you or anything: But, do you suffer from ADD? I need to know so that I will know how to respond to you in the future.


really? i think somebody ought to lock this thread before Billy digs his hole any deeper.


May 6th, 2012, 10:50 pm
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Post Re: Lions: One Big Question
The Legend wrote:
Quote:
You are taking an apple and comparing it to the orange I said I was right about.

I was right that our CB's suck.

Serious question, I am not making fun of you or anything: But, do you suffer from ADD? I need to know so that I will know how to respond to you in the future.


really? i think somebody ought to lock this thread before Billy digs his hole any deeper.



Billy, I've come to the conclusion about your nearly 5600 posts. I'm guessing that about 25% of them are posts about stuff; and the remaining 75% are posts defending the things you said in the original post.

We're now in jeopardy of yet another perfectly good discussion thread getting locked because of something you said.

You are single handledly devaluing cyber space!

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May 7th, 2012, 8:17 am
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Post Re: Lions: One Big Question
Billy, name one NFL team that have fives quality cornerbacks and four quality safeties on their roster. You can't, it doesn't exist. Rarely do teams have three good corners. And the Lions may not have the best secondary in the NFL, but last season they didn't have the worst.
Basically, every team can improve. However, each team is built differently with different priorities at different positions. The Lions obviously value the D-line over the secondary. Their philosophy is that the pass rush improves the secondary, not the other way around.
And LF57 is right. Most of your posts are spent defending the things you say against multiple people, not just one. So when you say I don't understand something, the fact that others didn't understand means YOU didn't argue your point effectively, not me.
You want to offer your opinions and state your case, that's fine. But don't don't get upset when numerous people don't understand exactly what you're saying. You are the common denominator in that equation.

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May 7th, 2012, 1:52 pm
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Post Re: Lions: One Big Question
Unfortunately, we have others around here who have more than 75% of their posts attacking others or trying to defend ridiculous comments

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May 7th, 2012, 3:14 pm
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Post Re: Lions: One Big Question
conversion02 wrote:
Unfortunately, we have others around here who have more than 75% of their posts attacking others or trying to defend ridiculous comments


This is true.

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May 7th, 2012, 3:24 pm
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Post Re: Lions: One Big Question
The lions had three choices this off season. They could reach for defensive backs in the draft, over pay for defensive backs in free agency, or try to find some good value in both and hope for the best. They choice the latter of these options which is also the wisest choice given the circumstances.

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May 7th, 2012, 8:37 pm
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Post Re: Lions: One Big Question
Stallion wrote:
The lions had three choices this off season. They could reach for defensive backs in the draft, over pay for defensive backs in free agency, or try to find some good value in both and hope for the best. They choice the latter of these options which is also the wisest choice given the circumstances.


Kudos for staying on topic...

I think this is the absolute best way to look at it and IMHO I think you nailed it. The Lions are following the blueprint to building a dynasty.

1. Get lucky as hell and draft a franchise QB. Check
2. Draft BPA. You can argue some here, Fairley and Reiff did fall into our laps. Maybe Prince Amukamara and DeCastro would've been better? Mikel Leshoure and Ryan Broyles are wait and see's atm.
3. Find the gems in FA. Eric Wright, Bobby Carpenter, Shaun Hill, Lawrence Jackson, Stefon Logan, Jacob Lacey??, etc.
4. Keep your own players!

The Lions are building the right way, and I can't argue with the way they are building. It's looking better and better.

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May 8th, 2012, 1:25 am
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