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 The War of Gog and Magog...Revisited. 
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Post Re: The War of Gog and Magog...Revisited.
m2karateman wrote:
To me it's no different than someone seeing a painting of Christ as having straight blond hair and blue eyes, and saying "yes, that's exactly what he looked like" (and I do know someone who exclaimed that). Only recently have documentaries and other TV shows begun showing Jesus as what he likely actually looked like....dark haired, likely curly hair and dark eyes, like most people would have looked like born into that region.


But his "Father" wasn't from that region, he was from all regions. If half the genes come from the "Father" then who knows what he looks like.

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June 28th, 2012, 11:20 am
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Post Re: The War of Gog and Magog...Revisited.
Pablo wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
To me it's no different than someone seeing a painting of Christ as having straight blond hair and blue eyes, and saying "yes, that's exactly what he looked like" (and I do know someone who exclaimed that). Only recently have documentaries and other TV shows begun showing Jesus as what he likely actually looked like....dark haired, likely curly hair and dark eyes, like most people would have looked like born into that region.


But his "Father" wasn't from that region, he was from all regions. If half the genes come from the "Father" then who knows what he looks like.


Understood. But God isn't stupid. To have a young woman from that region give birth to a child with obvious non-regional traits would have caused her to be stoned as an adultress during those times. Joseph was from that region, and it was commonly believed that he was the father of Jesus, not God.

In short, Mary giving birth to a blond haired, blue eyed child would have raised a ruckus.

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June 28th, 2012, 11:26 am
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Post Re: The War of Gog and Magog...Revisited.
m2karateman wrote:
Pablo wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
To me it's no different than someone seeing a painting of Christ as having straight blond hair and blue eyes, and saying "yes, that's exactly what he looked like" (and I do know someone who exclaimed that). Only recently have documentaries and other TV shows begun showing Jesus as what he likely actually looked like....dark haired, likely curly hair and dark eyes, like most people would have looked like born into that region.


But his "Father" wasn't from that region, he was from all regions. If half the genes come from the "Father" then who knows what he looks like.


Understood. But God isn't stupid. To have a young woman from that region give birth to a child with obvious non-regional traits would have caused her to be stoned as an adultress during those times. Joseph was from that region, and it was commonly believed that he was the father of Jesus, not God.

In short, Mary giving birth to a blond haired, blue eyed child would have raised a ruckus.


I thought he was trying to raise a ruckus! :lol:

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Post Re: The War of Gog and Magog...Revisited.
yeah but he needed an adult to cause said ruckus. not the mother of an infant! :wink:

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June 28th, 2012, 1:39 pm
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Post Re: The War of Gog and Magog...Revisited.
m2karateman wrote:
BillySims wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
BillySims wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
Let me start off by saying I believe in God and Christ.

However, I have to wonder out loud...why would God save Israel from attack by several countries at once, but He chooses not to save them from individual suicide bombers? They have wrought near as much devastation in that country as any war could.


Because suicide bombers are individuals acting upon their free will to do evil. If GOD were to stop them, then they would not really have free will.

I believe the only reason GOD will intervene in the War of Gog and Magog is to serve notice that his written word, ( The Bible ), is true. And it will also be a final wake up call to all who will believe in Jesus and repent of their sins. This event, (IMHO), is the last prophecy to be fulfilled prior to the rapture. It is also worth noting that it is just 1 more proof that GOD loves us so much and is not willing that anyone should perish, that he gives everyone 1 more amazing proof of his existence.


Is not the company of soldiers individuals, acting on behalf of individuals? We all have free will to refuse to enlist, or to act on orders. Why would God save Israel, a country that has wrought incredible amounts of evil on this Earth, as much as any other nation? Yes, even as much (or more so) than Germany, Russia, China or North Korea.


Were you ever in the military? A company of Soldiers is a company. They act as 1 or they get individuals killed.


m2karateman wrote:
Really? Then explain how some soldiers go off and act on their own in committing criminal acts. Explain how the shooting took place in Texas. Explain the numerous rapes taking place in the Middle East theater of conflict, despite the fact that the soldiers know this is against the rules and can endanger their lives and the lives of the others in their company.

Please spare me the brotherhood speech of the military. Soldiers have a mind and the freewill God has given everyone else to either follow orders or disregard them as they see fit.


I never said that it's impossible for a few to commit crimes. I was speaking in general pertaining to combat. Of course there is always the possibility someone can commit a crime.

BillySims wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
And why bring up the Rapture? That is the invention of mankind, and exists no place in the Bible.


The word Rapture does not appear in the Bible. But, a thorough reading of 1st and 2nd Thesalonians will enlighten you to the truth of the matter.


I understand that the event is not called Rapture by name, but there are also different interpretations of exactly what is meant by what is said, in Thessalonians, Matthew and Revelations regarding all this. I guess my saying it exists no place in the Bible was a poorly worded statement. My apologies.

BillySims wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
And saying that God loves us so much he is going to stop one war on behalf of one country is foolish. Is God that much of a racist?


GOD is not a racist. He accepts repentance from anyone who would repent. Regardless of race. And I thank GOD that he did not choose us to be his chosen people. He has dealt pretty harshly with Israel. I think he chose Israel precisely because they were/are an evil/hardheaded race of people. Who better to make the example of?


And God is set to make an example of Israel by saving them? That's pretty confusing.

The entire Generation that left Egypt died in the wilderness over 40 years due to their disobedience. Only that generations children were allowed to pass into the promised land. Even Moses was denied entrance due to 1 moment of disobedience.
Twice, Israel was defeated and exiled from the promised land. The last time, the exile lasted nearly 2000 years. In that time Hitler tried to exterminate them from the Earth. I would say that that is pretty harsh.

BillySims wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
I ask these questions not because I don't believe in God, but because there is flawed logic in what your answer contains.

Let me also make this statement, at the risk of angering you and W4C (which is not my intent), I don't believe the Bible to be Gods word. I believe the Bible to be a collection of stories and writings of men, who stated or thought they were acting on behalf of God. But there have been murderers, rapists and sadists who claim they were acting on behalf of God as well.

If God needs to speak to us, He doesn't do it through written word and countless interpretations of that word. He will do it through our hearts. It is through your heart that you accepted Him, not through His written words. Many, many have read His word (Bible), but not all have accepted Him. I believe that believing the Bible to be His word is a form of idolatry, no different than praying to a saint, the Virgin Mary, or to the cross.

Just my $0.02.


I can't argue about your beliefs. You are entitled to them. All I can do is to continue praying and trying to convince you of the truth of GOD's inspired, written word we call the Bible.


I appreciate that Billy. I am not questioning anyones faith. Being strong in your faith is not something to knock someone about, so I have respect for you, W4C, and even Pablo because despite all of you having different viewpoints, so to speak, your resolute firmness in what you believe is admirable.

Now, my question is this. Why is it believed that the Bible is God's inspired Word, when it is well known that men wrote those words, and you and W4C have both said God gave man freewill, which we all know has been used for both good and evil? Why is it accepted that this collection of letters, books and writings is the act of men acting TRULY on behalf of God? Why were books written on these same subjects left out, but some included that are of questionable origin? Why would God choose multiple people to write about different events throughout history, and not simply choose one, as He did with Moses and the Ten Commandments?

I understand it is called Faith for a reason. And I understand that the Bible and its contents and creation were inspired by the acts of God and Jesus Christ. But taking what the contents of the Bible are and trying to say they explain everything in exact detail is questionable, imho. We all know mankind has a penchant for inflating facts and conveniently manipulating things to suit their individual purpose. We all know mankind has a general lust for power, and that it can cause them to do unthinkable things. And we all know that languages do not seemlessly translate from one to another without some "filling in" of certain words or phrases that may disrupt the original intent or meaning. Given the large number of translations done, the timeframe of the writings from when the events actually took place, and the decisions to leave some books and writings out and include others is what leads me to question how one could take the Bible and say "this is the truth, and is correct in its every word".

To me it's no different than someone seeing a painting of Christ as having straight blond hair and blue eyes, and saying "yes, that's exactly what he looked like" (and I do know someone who exclaimed that). Only recently have documentaries and other TV shows begun showing Jesus as what he likely actually looked like....dark haired, likely curly hair and dark eyes, like most people would have looked like born into that region.


Some books were rejected due to being complete contradiction to the rest of scripture. The Bible never contradicts itself. Sometimes it seems to. But, once you research it, you learn that what seems to be a contradiction, really isn't. But, I will leave that to people far more knowing than I am to explain that. Some were just plain filled with heresies. And still some others were simply just redundant.


June 28th, 2012, 11:31 pm
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Post Re: The War of Gog and Magog...Revisited.
m2karateman wrote:
Pablo wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
To me it's no different than someone seeing a painting of Christ as having straight blond hair and blue eyes, and saying "yes, that's exactly what he looked like" (and I do know someone who exclaimed that). Only recently have documentaries and other TV shows begun showing Jesus as what he likely actually looked like....dark haired, likely curly hair and dark eyes, like most people would have looked like born into that region.


But his "Father" wasn't from that region, he was from all regions. If half the genes come from the "Father" then who knows what he looks like.


Understood. But God isn't stupid. To have a young woman from that region give birth to a child with obvious non-regional traits would have caused her to be stoned as an adultress during those times. Joseph was from that region, and it was commonly believed that he was the father of Jesus, not God.

In short, Mary giving birth to a blond haired, blue eyed child would have raised a ruckus.


I wish Jesus would have let someone paint his portrait. LOL. I agree that the pictures people see of Jesus are nowhere near accurately portraying what he would have looked like.


June 28th, 2012, 11:35 pm
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Post Re: The War of Gog and Magog...Revisited.
People claim to see Jesus all the time, can't we come up with a composite picture?

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Post Re: The War of Gog and Magog...Revisited.
Pablo wrote:
People claim to see Jesus all the time, can't we come up with a composite picture?



People claim to see chupacabras and bigfoot too and yet no one knows what they look like either.....very disapointing

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June 29th, 2012, 12:33 pm
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Post Re: The War of Gog and Magog...Revisited.
Actually, I've heard the professional description of the shroud of Turin (sp?) and it's really quite interesting.

The DNA matches up to the appropriate DNA of a Jewish bloodline, Ab + I think it is, and the whip marks complete with the a lot of really neat references. It may not be the death sheets of Christ, but it's interesting nonetheless.

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June 29th, 2012, 1:20 pm
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Post Re: The War of Gog and Magog...Revisited.
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Actually, I've heard the professional description of the shroud of Turin (sp?) and it's really quite interesting.

The DNA matches up to the appropriate DNA of a Jewish bloodline, Ab + I think it is, and the whip marks complete with the a lot of really neat references. It may not be the death sheets of Christ, but it's interesting nonetheless.


Ahh, the Shroud - where to start? Funny how the Holy Book doesn't make mention of the one likeness of Christ that remains. You would think that might be an important inclusion. The Bible does say, however according to John, that one sheet covered his body and another cloth covered his head which is inconsist with the shroud. So if we want to use the Bible as a reference, I can't see how the shroud really is the image of Christ.

From a scientific perspective, and I realize those are some pretty shaky grounds, carbon dating put the age of the shroud around the 13th or 14th century which is just a tad bit after the time of Jesus. Now I'm using the Biblical concept of time here, so a tad really translates to 1,300 - 1,400 years. (this dating, ironically, also ties into when the Church first spoke about its existence - a miracle I know).

With more recent discoveries of early Jewish tombs from the time around Jesus they have been able to compare the fabric itself. The weaves are much more simple that that of the shroud further indicating it wasn't from the time of Jesus.

I don't recall all the other findings that suggest that the shroud could not be of Jesus but there have been many other methods used to examine it.

That said, in the Egg bun of my Smash Burger was an image today that could be that of Christ or perhaps the Virgin Mary. I didn't carbon date it, but based on the taste it seems like it was pretty fresh so I'm ruling out a lot of potential theories so lets remove the "shroud" of mystery that surrounded my lunch.

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June 29th, 2012, 2:48 pm
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Post Re: The War of Gog and Magog...Revisited.
man I must need to type real slow, because you seem to be skipping over key words such as: professional description.

many of the same things that you stated, carbon dating, two sheets, and other clues were the same questions I had. But when it came through here, I asked the Pastor who was leading the demonstration. He answered those questions directly, and it was quite INTERESTING.

In no way, shape, or form was I saying that it was ACCURATE, I said it was I N T E R E S T I N G.

Contrary to what you may believe, and I'm getting this impression, I do NOT drink the kool aid because a Pastor told me this or that. I find bigfoot interesting too, and I'll even watch BFRO's tv show, but that doesn't mean it's gospel.

THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS TO ME IS MY RELATIONSHIP WITH JESUS CHRIST, AND HOW I CAN DEMONSTRATE THAT BEFORE OTHERS. We can keep discussing stones, and pictures, and scrolls and bones, but none of that REALLY MATTERS, what matters is your relationship with or without Christ.

See that up ahead? That day right there... See it? Yeah that one in the future, that's the time that matters, not all those that have gone before, so let's quit chasing rabbits in order to keep from having to address the real issue. Smoking or non-smoking?

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June 29th, 2012, 3:21 pm
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Post Re: The War of Gog and Magog...Revisited.
Cool WE4C, I actually have found the shroud quite interesting as well and just thought I would point out some reasoning why it might not actually be Christ. I actually including some thoughts about the Bible as well, which I thought you might appreciate as a change of pace from all the science we tend to refer to here.

And I do see what is up ahead, that day right there. Actually I don't but people for the past 2,000 years have - all convinced it would happen in their lifetime. I mean, the Bible says it is coming "soon" - that is why people in the 1st century were so hooked (and the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th, 14th, 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th, 19th, 20th, and now in the 21st but that is looking backwards).

You say we should only look forward, do you realize without a past we have no future? We have no frame of reference to digest it. Without Christ having lived in the past what would your faith look like today? It is your point of reference for the future, please don't discount it.

Again, those who can't look backwards tend to be ashamed of the past. FYI - it is also common knowledge that past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior. We also learn from the mistakes of our past, hopefully, and improve ourselves for the future.

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June 29th, 2012, 4:05 pm
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Post Re: The War of Gog and Magog...Revisited.
regularjoe12 wrote:
Pablo wrote:
People claim to see Jesus all the time, can't we come up with a composite picture?



People claim to see chupacabras and bigfoot too and yet no one knows what they look like either.....very disapointing


You been listening to too much Coast to Coast AM. LOL.


June 29th, 2012, 9:00 pm
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Post Re: The War of Gog and Magog...Revisited.
Pablo wrote:
And I do see what is up ahead, that day right there. Actually I don't but people for the past 2,000 years have - all convinced it would happen in their lifetime. I mean, the Bible says it is coming "soon" - that is why people in the 1st century were so hooked (and the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th, 14th, 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th, 19th, 20th, and now in the 21st but that is looking backwards).


With that statement, in a way, you are helping to fullfill 2 Peter chapter 3. You pretty much have to read the whole chapter to get the correct context.

Quote:
2 Peter 3

1This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:

2That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

3Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

4And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

5For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

6Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

7But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

8But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

14Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

15And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

16As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

17Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

18But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.


June 29th, 2012, 9:13 pm
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Post Re: The War of Gog and Magog...Revisited.
:shock: 8-[

INTERESTING ---- We probably should keep an eye on this.

Convenient excuse to assembly the invading forces right out in the open? The article doesn't mention how long this will go on for.

http://www3.almanar.com.lb/english/adetails.php?eid=59259&frid=31&seccatid=91&cid=31&fromval=1

Quote:
Biggest Iranian, Russian, Chinese, Syrian War Games in ME Soon

Iranian, Russian, Chinese and Syrian armies are to stage joint war games in Syria in the coming weeks, Fars news agency cited informed sources as saying.

“90,000 forces from the four countries will take pWar gamesart in the land and sea war games due to be held along the Syrian coasts,” the sources said, adding that ground, air and sea forces as well as air defense and missile units of the four countries will take part in the exercises.

The sources also said that Egypt has acceded to grant passage to 12 Chinese warships to sail through the Suez Canal, adding that the military convoy is due to dock at the Syrian harbors in the next two weeks.

Russian atomic submarines and warships, aircraft carriers and mine-clearing destroyers as well as Iranian battleships and submarines will also arrive in Syria at around the same date, Fars reported.

A sum of 400 warplanes and 1,000 tanks will also be used in the exercises.

A Syrian official, who asked to remain anonymous, had informed two weeks ago that the drills would be conducted in Syria soon, the agency said.

Unofficial sources also said the four countries are now busy with taking swift preparatory measures for these biggest-ever war games in the Middle-East.

Source: Agencies
19-06-2012 - 15:19 Last updated 19-06-2012 - 15:19


June 29th, 2012, 9:52 pm
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