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 Last offseason, why didn't the Lions do this? 
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Post Re: Last offseason, why didn't the Lions do this?
regularjoe12 wrote:
But we cant trade him until he signs his tender. He totally hamstrung us. It was either let him go and get nothing or get one more year oyut of him and hope he signs a deal....


That's a bunch of BS.

1) If I'm not mistaken, he was given the non-exclusive tag, meaning he can talk to other teams.

2) If we found a trading partner that was willing to give him the deal he wanted he would sign the tag, but I think what is more appropriately done in instances like this is his rights are traded, the new deal is signed, and the franchise tag is dropped.


July 18th, 2012, 5:21 pm
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Post Re: Last offseason, why didn't the Lions do this?
thats all well and good and maybe doing so would have inspired him to sign his franchise tag, but WE as a team could not shop him untill he signed.

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July 18th, 2012, 5:43 pm
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Post Re: Last offseason, why didn't the Lions do this?
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Shotty wrote:
Cliff said in an interview that he won't be at the first day of camp and might not go at all. Right now is the time to trade him. A 2nd round pick would be great.


Are there any disgruntled players out there that can be had that can still help this team this year? (Someone in a similar situation to Asante Samuel last year). It would suck to get rid of someone that would obviously help this team this year for "future consideration." We needed this team to be as good as could have been, hence the reason for needed to trade him 4 months ago. Mayhew really effed up this situation.

The reason I said we needed to trade him before the draft was so we could use his money via FA and the draft to better this team. We don't need depth we need impact players that can help this team win now. It's no secret that we're going to have trouble keeping Stafford, Suh, and Calvin together long-term. We need to build around them now and make a run at the SB.


Truth. Calvin is locked up. Suh is here for at least 3 more years and will probably ask for around $20 mill a year once he's a FA. Staff is definitely here to stay.

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July 18th, 2012, 5:46 pm
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Post Re: Last offseason, why didn't the Lions do this?
regularjoe12 wrote:
thats all well and good and maybe doing so would have inspired him to sign his franchise tag, but WE as a team could not shop him untill he signed.


Sure, but it's not that Avril "hamstrung" the Lions. Sure, he's standing his ground in the negotiation but the franchise tag cuts both ways. Think of it this way: if Avril's production slips this year, the Lions dodged a bullet--they'll be able to let him go next year and not have to worry about the cap hit. Or, they might be able to sign him long-term for less money, since his price would almost certainly come down.

Another "plus" for the Lions is that if Avril equals or exceeds last year's production, that $10.6M franchise tag will look like a bargain. $10.6M, by the way, IS a bargain for a franchise DE. Last year's franchise tag for DEs was over $12M!

I actually really respect Avril for sticking to his guns. He's convinced he's worth big-time money and he's willing to risk playing on a one-year deal to prove it. If he's wrong, he loses millions. If he's right, he will rightfully be able to cash in. I'll never criticize someone for betting on himself.

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July 18th, 2012, 9:08 pm
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Post Re: Last offseason, why didn't the Lions do this?
mwill2 wrote:
regularjoe12 wrote:
thats all well and good and maybe doing so would have inspired him to sign his franchise tag, but WE as a team could not shop him untill he signed.


Sure, but it's not that Avril "hamstrung" the Lions. Sure, he's standing his ground in the negotiation but the franchise tag cuts both ways. Think of it this way: if Avril's production slips this year, the Lions dodged a bullet--they'll be able to let him go next year and not have to worry about the cap hit. Or, they might be able to sign him long-term for less money, since his price would almost certainly come down.

Another "plus" for the Lions is that if Avril equals or exceeds last year's production, that $10.6M franchise tag will look like a bargain. $10.6M, by the way, IS a bargain for a franchise DE. Last year's franchise tag for DEs was over $12M!

I actually really respect Avril for sticking to his guns. He's convinced he's worth big-time money and he's willing to risk playing on a one-year deal to prove it. If he's wrong, he loses millions. If he's right, he will rightfully be able to cash in. I'll never criticize someone for betting on himself.


All true. If he has another 11+ sack season, I'd have no trouble with him making $12 mill a year. All the answers about him will be answered after his franchise tag season.

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July 18th, 2012, 11:06 pm
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Post Re: Last offseason, why didn't the Lions do this?
regularjoe12 wrote:
thats all well and good and maybe doing so would have inspired him to sign his franchise tag, but WE as a team could not shop him untill he signed.


But the fact is that Avril could have spoken with another team about a deal, and then the Lions and that team could have discussed compensation. It was done in the past with other teams, other players.
Avril talks to another team and agrees to a deal in principle.
The Lions know they can't match the deal, and discuss a sign and trade deal.
The Lions and team X agree to draft pick/player compensation.
Avril signs his franchise tender.
Lions trade Avril.
Avril signs new deal with team.

I believe that's how it goes.

Having been given the non-exclusive tag, the Lions basically told Avril he could shop himself to other teams. He either failed to do so, or his response from other teams were "not interested at that price". Either way, Avril overpriced himself.

And now he is saying he may not go to camp because he fears injury? He was attending camp playing on a rookie third round contract that paid him peanuts, but now that he's the $10.6M dollar man, he's afraid of injury?

I'm sorry, but he needs to fire his agent and think for himself. His agent talked him out of $20M guaranteed for a three year contract. That's utterly foolish. Now he wants to hold him out of camp to protect him? The reason for training camp is to prepare for the season, so that you don't get hurt.

I'm beginning to hope Avril blows out a knee walking into Allen Park. It would serve him right.

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July 19th, 2012, 9:38 am
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Post Re: Last offseason, why didn't the Lions do this?
I hate to wish ill on other players but i find my self tyhinking like you and sthinking that it WOULD serve him right to get a sillly injury that prevents him from playing the full season....


But either way I firmly believe he screwed the team with his greed, and Im REALLLY not happy with him

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July 19th, 2012, 12:45 pm
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Post Re: Last offseason, why didn't the Lions do this?
regularjoe12 wrote:
I hate to wish ill on other players but i find my self tyhinking like you and sthinking that it WOULD serve him right to get a sillly injury that prevents him from playing the full season....


But either way I firmly believe he screwed the team with his greed, and Im REALLLY not happy with him


This.

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July 19th, 2012, 8:30 pm
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Post Re: Last offseason, why didn't the Lions do this?
kdsberman wrote:
regularjoe12 wrote:
I hate to wish ill on other players but i find my self tyhinking like you and sthinking that it WOULD serve him right to get a sillly injury that prevents him from playing the full season....


But either way I firmly believe he screwed the team with his greed, and Im REALLLY not happy with him


This.


He has not screwed the team in any way. Shame on you for wishing an injury on him. He is only trying to get what he can, to set his family up for life, while he can. No different than you would. There is a saying. " The money is undefeated. " He will be in camp about a week before the 1st game of the regular season. It would be stupid for him to sign the tag right now and then get hurt in a meaningless preseason game. He knows the defense already. He will only need to learn a few new wrinkles for this year.


July 20th, 2012, 12:22 am
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Post Re: Last offseason, why didn't the Lions do this?
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He is only trying to get what he can, to set his family up for life


Yer right billy....30 mill over 3 years won't even put food on the table. what was I thinking!?!?!

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July 20th, 2012, 8:46 am
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Post Re: Last offseason, why didn't the Lions do this?
BillySims wrote:
He has not screwed the team in any way. Shame on you for wishing an injury on him. He is only trying to get what he can, to set his family up for life, while he can. No different than you would. There is a saying. " The money is undefeated. " He will be in camp about a week before the 1st game of the regular season. It would be stupid for him to sign the tag right now and then get hurt in a meaningless preseason game. He knows the defense already. He will only need to learn a few new wrinkles for this year.


If $30M before the age of 30 isn't enough to set up your family for life, then you have a f**ked up family and need to get rid of them.

I am SICK AND TIRED of all this BS 'I just wanna take care of my family' stuff from professional athletes around contract time. Your family and you don't need to have 10 cars in the garage of a 15,000 square foot mansion in Miami Beach. You don't need to have multiple businesses making even more money beyond your football career.

Give me $30M right now, and my family will be set up for the next five generations, easy.

Billy, being in camp and training with your teammates is part of the deal of being on a TEAM! End of story. The Lions didn't make a crap offer to him. They made a very good (some would say too good) offer to him and he turned them down.

He HAS screwed the team. He is getting more this season than he would have in his contract, thereby he has hamstrung the team financially. That relief would have allowed the Lions to possibly sign someone else at another position of need when camp cuts occur in August.

Nobody here is expecting him to take whatever the Lions gave him and be thankful for it. But he was given a more-than-fair offer and rejected it. He is a greedy bastard, and I don't like greedy people. If he gets hurt training on his own without signing his tender, IT WOULD BE POETIC JUSTICE AND SERVE HIM RIGHT!! If he tears a bicep, or pec muscle while lifting, requires surgery and misses the season due to it, I wouldnt' shed a tear for him....or his family. He was willing to attend training camp and give his all for four years under his rookie contract and didn't fear injuries then. But now...NOW that he feels he's worth eight figures a year, he's afraid of getting hurt?! Screw him. Screw him with a cattle prod hooked up to a Volt battery pack.

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July 20th, 2012, 9:28 am
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Post Re: Last offseason, why didn't the Lions do this?
Well said M2.

Avril, you are selfish, plain and simple. You have one pretty good year and you think you're God now. I dont hear Jared Allen talking contract numbers over there in Minny.

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July 20th, 2012, 10:44 am
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Post Re: Last offseason, why didn't the Lions do this?
Im sorry but these comments are just flat out wrong. Avril isnt saying he is too good for 3yr/30million he s saying that the option of playing 1 yr at 10.6 million and then going back on the free agent market is better to him. He has no obligation to play for the Lions at lower than market value and get an unusually short contract compared to what other DEs his age have received - most of which have received at least 4 yrs and at 11-12 million per year.

Jared Allen doesnt complain about money? Really, then why the f... did he leave the Chiefs? Maybe it had something to do with the 6yrs/73mill deal he got from a different team in 2008 (instead of playing on a 8.8 mill tender)? Why did he say this about the Chiefs management when he left?

Quote:
Allen said his reason for leaving is simple to identify. “His name was Carl Peterson. You can write that in caps. Obviously, I had a problem with (owner) Clark Hunt, too, because he chose Carl over me, huh? When everything went down there, I didn’t appreciate being lied to. I was told I’d get (a contract) extension and everything, and the way things played out, my biggest thing was, ‘Listen, I don’t lie to you guys. I show up and bust my tail for you. Don’t lie to me.’ … It’s tough to go and give your all for someone like that.”


You guys make it sound like Avril is the only player that has wanted to get paid his market value. Vincent Jackson played on an $11million tender w SD instead of taking a lowball offer and then got a 5yr/$55million deal the next year. Nobody here thinks Avril is looking to do something similar.

Sorry fellas but you guys are either blind - not looking around and seeing what is happening around the league - or just homers that expect bc its your team that Avril should play on a discounted offer.


July 21st, 2012, 12:49 am
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Post Re: Last offseason, why didn't the Lions do this?
But Jared Allen "f-king" DESERVES the money! Compare the numbers.

And remember the last time we had a defensive end get 11 sacks (Cory Redding) and right away we signed him to a contract cuz everyone thought we had something super special.....ya...

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Post Re: Last offseason, why didn't the Lions do this?
kdsberman wrote:
But Jared Allen "f-king" DESERVES the money! Compare the numbers.

And remember the last time we had a defensive end get 11 sacks (Cory Redding) and right away we signed him to a contract cuz everyone thought we had something super special.....ya...


Exactly. He proves it every game he plays, he's definitely worth however much he's getting. Avril had one good year, let alone benefiting from a good line around him, and I think, after he signs the franchise tag, he'll only be resigned if he has 15+ sacks, which no matter how good the line around you is proves he's a top DE. In that case, I'm sure many more people wouldn't mind him getting big money.

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July 21st, 2012, 1:24 pm
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