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 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code. 
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Post Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.
=
WarEr4Christ wrote:
1. Maybe it depends upon our translation of the word rest? Or maybe God rested in order to set the standard by which we, mankind, were to follow his lead? So yes I answered your questions with questions but they seemed appropriate.


I thought along similar lines, I just thought it was a funny question.

WarEr4Christ wrote:
2. In my brief and severly limited time with biology, the variations just between one couple is quite amazing. So who's to say the variations did not occur through the process of time, maybe even evolution based upon environment and genetic changes. Beyond my scope or ability to teach on this so I'll not even try.


I see more evolution thoughts sneaking in that Christian brain of yours...

WarEr4Christ wrote:
3. I'd give you the number, the youtube, address and facebook accounts, but you don't have the faith to see the numbers, watch the videos, find the address, and or read what he's posted, so it's a moot point.


LOL, however you don't need Faith to visit a real website or watch a video - can you imagine how many followers he would have? Probably only be second to Kim K.

WarEr4Christ wrote:
4. Who says I'm scared of the possiblity that God might not exist? If he doesn't then I've lived a good life and feel very rewarded for it. If he does exists and I've lived my life according to his teachings, then I've lived my life in relationship and I'm blessed because of it.


I don't think you are being real honest here or haven't thought this through. You have lived a "good life" according to the Christian definition - take that away and you might think differently. For example, Christian's think you should have premarital sex - now imagine you die and in a non-God way you are able to look back on your life. Remember those beautiful women who you could have shared one of life's greatest pleasures with but did not because of some false belief. Think of all the time wasted in church worshipping a false God. Imagine situations when you put a false God before your wife or daughter. The 3 things that really matter are time, money, and relationships - in ways you sacrifice pieces of all 3 in any form of worship.

WarEr4Christ wrote:
This has been called a straw man but it warrants saying. If I live my life for God and he doesn't exist, I win, if I live my life for God and he doesn't exist, I win. However, If you live your life as if God doesn't exist and he doesn't you win, but if you live your life as if he doesn't exist and he does, YOU LOSE!

Is it really worth betting eternity on those kind of odds? One's 100% the other is 50% at best.


This is such a terrible argument that I hear so often I don't even know where to begin. First, you only give two options - I'll start there. For example, imagine there is a God but he is nothing like the God you believe in. Now this God happens to great eternal life in a heaven like state but only to those that don't worship false Gods. They fact that you worship a human (Jesus) who certainly isn't his son dooms you to eternal hell. Such limited thinking is exactly how Churches want you to think - expand the possibilities (they are limitless).

Second, let's assume you somehow are correct. The only way to heaven is through egotistical worship of this Chrisitian God. You know what, he is all yours - I want nothing to do with him. If he simply doesn't accept people based on who they are and how they lived (treated others) then enjoy your afterlife and forever pity all those great men, women and children who lived life the right way but still were shunned by your God. Honestly, if your God is the real God - WE ALL LOSE!

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July 31st, 2012, 2:08 pm
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Post Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.
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3. I'd give you the number, the youtube, address and facebook accounts, but you don't have the faith to see the numbers, watch the videos, find the address, and or read what he's posted, so it's a moot point.


LOL, however you don't need Faith to visit a real website or watch a video - can you imagine how many followers he would have? Probably only be second to Kim K.



lol. even if sucha thing did exsist, it would have to be taken on faith that God was teh Author.....you wouldn't buy that no matter how he signed his name...so why do it?

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July 31st, 2012, 2:14 pm
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Post Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.
Pablo, you are being kind of unfair with W4C. You live your life as you see fit, no? You care for those who you feel like caring for, you try to do the right things. Does it matter what the driving force is behind that? Whether it is your internal sense of responsibility and accountability to mankind or God, isn't the world a better place for it?

You say that God is egotistical. Why? Because He simply would like recognition for what He's done? Isn't that a trait inherent of mankind as well? Do you enjoy it when someone else takes credit for your work? If it were to happen often enough, wouldn't you say something about it and try to out that person who stole your work as their own? Could you not, in reporting that person to your superiors, put that person in jeopardy of losing their job?

What W4C has been saying all along, and something I believe in, is that God isn't about the brick and mortar church. He isn't about your donations to the church, or the number of times you pray each day.

In my eyes, you DO have a relationship with God. It may not be the kind of relationship He may want (denial), but you have one. Many kids will scream "you're not my daddy" when they are angry at their parents. Some kids have even gone so far as to split off any relationship they had with that parent due to circumstances. Legal emancipation from your parents via the courts has happened in rare circumstances. But the relationship exists.

So, to criticize someone who happens to want to be like a person who preached to love thy neighbor, turn the other cheek, and forgive.....why is that a bad thing?

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July 31st, 2012, 3:17 pm
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Post Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.
I don't think you are being real honest here or haven't thought this through. You have lived a "good life" according to the Christian definition - take that away and you might think differently. For example, Christian's think you should have premarital sex - now imagine you die and in a non-God way you are able to look back on your life. Remember those beautiful women who you could have shared one of life's greatest pleasures with but did not because of some false belief. Think of all the time wasted in church worshipping a false God. Imagine situations when you put a false God before your wife or daughter. The 3 things that really matter are time, money, and relationships - in ways you sacrifice pieces of all 3 in any form of worship.


Pablo, I'd like to share that I think you are making an assumption here.
You are assuming that I have not partaken of the worldly pleasures, or other things. I can assure you that as recently as 6 years ago, I was not the man that I am today. In fact, ask I.E. how much of a richard cranium I used to be! We would battle back and forth trading shots and getting in internet fights, not exactly the "Godly" example I was supposed to be eh? Remember that was back during the DD days! But through time, and effort my heart and life was changed! That's the factor that people don't realize about a relationship with Christ. You change! Case in point, ever heard, "What's a matter with him, did he find religion?"

If there is a Navy tradition you can think of I've tried it! I've chased skirts, gotten drunk, tattooed, adultery, fornication, cussed like a sailor and much, MUCH more! All of this having GROWN UP IN A CHRISTIAN HOME. Then one day, the tapped me on the shoulder and said, "remember me?" From that day on my journey was slow and painful, but something that I chose to do.

It goes back to what I was telling the others, I can tell you about the water, describe it to you, tell you what if feels like, and swear up and down that it's real; but until you try it for yourself, you'll never believe me. You have to make the choice to believe, THEN YOU WILL SEE!

Can a cell demand that the body be seen in order for it to believe? I know it doesn't make a lot of sense but I"m trying to illustrate a point here. We, the created, demand a sign, but we won't recognize the one's we've already been given. The sheer detail and intricacies of all creation are the biggest example of divine design and his love for us that he would choose to create a planet down to the most miniscule detail so that we could survive and thrive in all this beauty, and yet, we push it off on theories and hypotheticals because, we dare not acknowledge the presence of God, because to do so would mean that we are responsible for the choices we make every day, especially the one where we deny him.

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July 31st, 2012, 3:43 pm
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Post Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.
Oh and so you know, I did put a false god before my wife and daughter and paid dearly for it. That god is common to this society! It's called SELF.

I want what I want, when I want it, and don't you dare get in my way or tell me I can't do something, have something, feel something and so on.

Watch peole drive and see how they scramble and rush for the 1st place at the light. Watch how we take relationships and dispose of them like yesterday's clothes because working on relationships is just too hard. We are a selfish society and I caused great injury on my loved ones because of it. But I was forgiven, and I saw that as a Husband I am to love my wife and daughter as Christ loved the church, even unto death, death to himself! Jesus gave up his desires, in order to fulfill his mission which was to redeem mankind, and restore the relationship between man and God. In the garden of Gethsemane, he prayed father take this cup from me, I don't want to do it, but nonetheless not MY will but YOURS be done. So Jesus submitted and fulfilled history, which allowed for us to be welcomed into the family.

Following that example, I submitted myself to the Lord and to my wife and daughter and made it my goal to serve them with all that I have. My relationship is unreal, solid, and such a blessing that I do not wish to ever serve self again. I just thought you should know that, and it's for all to see.

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July 31st, 2012, 3:50 pm
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Post Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.
WarEr4Christ wrote:
If I live my life for God and he doesn't exist, I win, if I live my life for God and he doesn't exist, I win. However, If you live your life as if God doesn't exist and he doesn't you win, but if you live your life as if he doesn't exist and he does, YOU LOSE!

Is it really worth betting eternity on those kind of odds? One's 100% the other is 50% at best.


That logic is a falacy (which means it isn't true). That precise attempt to rationalize belief is called "Pascal's Wager" (which has been discussed here several times before, yet conveniently forgotten )... named after the mathematician who proposed it as his own rationale. The reason it is false, is that the person making this "bet" is assuming that HIS God is the only one to bet on. That is completely false, of course. Across the Earth, there are several other very different religions who believe entirely different things - and, like many Christians, that the non-believers are infidels that certainly will burn in their own version of eternal hell.

So the bet is certainly not 50% vs 100%. If we just assume that Christians, Muslims, Hindu and Buddists are all roughly equal in percentage (they're not - but for these discussion purposes it is fine).... no one belief (or lack of it) assures anyone that they are making any better than a 20% bet. #-o

Then the kicker, of course, is that an all-knowing deity would certainly know whether an individual's position is sincere or not (and sincerity would certainly be a 'range', and not a digital yes/no thing).... so the bet and God's decision tree is far more complect than Pascal "wagered".


July 31st, 2012, 7:03 pm
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Post Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.
Eric,

I know this is going to twist your knickers, but you're just gonna have to deal with it. The Christian God is the only TRUE God. The rest are created, or are men worshiped by those whom they led astray. As we discussed earlier, humans have been very good about creating their gods, but the Christian God is the only real one.

Jesus is the son of God, whom came to Earth in the natural way, and was crucified, buried, and DID rise again on the third day. The Bible does speak of the 500 people who saw or had contact with Jesus post crucifixion, I'll see if I can find the reference if you care to see it. Therefore His tomb is empty.

Mohammed: dead and buried
Buddha: dead and buried
Indian gods: created and powerless (unless you want to throw in the demonic activity that acts on behalf of the "god" to decieve the believer.
there are many more, and they all have a to do list in order to reach nirvana, paradise, the great unknown and so no. Jesus is the only one that said decide!

I know this will upset and I'm sorry for that, but I will not bend on this....

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2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


July 31st, 2012, 7:54 pm
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Post Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Eric,

I know this is going to twist your knickers, but you're just gonna have to deal with it. The Christian God is the only TRUE God. The rest are created, or are men worshiped by those whom they led astray. As we discussed earlier, humans have been very good about creating their gods, but the Christian God is the only real one.

Jesus is the son of God, whom came to Earth in the natural way, and was crucified, buried, and DID rise again on the third day. The Bible does speak of the 500 people who saw or had contact with Jesus post crucifixion, I'll see if I can find the reference if you care to see it. Therefore His tomb is empty.

Mohammed: dead and buried
Buddha: dead and buried
Indian gods: created and powerless (unless you want to throw in the demonic activity that acts on behalf of the "god" to decieve the believer.
there are many more, and they all have a to do list in order to reach nirvana, paradise, the great unknown and so no. Jesus is the only one that said decide!

I know this will upset and I'm sorry for that, but I will not bend on this....


That's all fine - but that's just your bet. And you conceded as a function of your bet that you might be wrong - but that you'd still be safe.

By the way - I've used the term "self-referencing" before to describe what you're doing to explain the evidence behind your beliefs. What that means is, the evidence is part of the belief itself. Of course the book that claims to speak truth insists it speaks truth & also provides evidence - but the evidence referenced is in the book itself - which is circular. And again - the presence of non-fictional characters in any book or story does not make it factual. That is done to make is "realistic".


July 31st, 2012, 8:25 pm
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Post Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.
Eric,

I have a question that I thought about in regards to your statement about Pascal's Wager. You are asking me to believe the theory of this man Pascal in regards to eternity, so how is he the authority on whether or not his theory is true?

The reason it is false, is that the person making this "bet" is assuming that HIS God is the only one to bet on. That is completely false, of course.

By your own statement here you are making a judgment based upon your belief. Over the course of your life, you have perpetually chosen to deny the existence of God ( this is my opinion based on your statements) and you back it up with different findings of people like you and I. They may be smarter, or more educated, but they are still people and unable to fully fathom the mysteries of God. In other words, it's still the created trying to demand proof of the creator and making a judgment based upon a severly limited perspective.

So in the end, my math still holds true and I assure you that it is a strong wager, just not very convenient to the unbelieving crowd.

As for the self-referencing comment, I don't understand why that should be a bad thing? Am I not correct in the fact that unless you try the water for yourself, you must then take my word for it? Here's something that may surprise you: You my friend have A LOT of faith, I am amazed, and excited because of the faith I see in you, it just happens to be in some pretty extreme things. Having said that, my prayer has been that the eyes of your heart will be opened to the mysteries of God so you can quit shaking your fist at him. You and Pablo both demand signs and proof that God exists, but you aren't able to accept the proof that's already been given. God is in the details! But using science and the higher thinking of other CREATED individuals, you've based your faith on mans thinking, and that is where I'm trying to encourage you to aim higher.

It's about the relationship, not the religion. It's about the journey not the building, it's about getting to know God and understanding who he's created you to be. But the stubborn refusal by demanding proof will get you no where. All proof that has ever been needed, has already been given! At some point you are just going to have to make the choice to accept it, or continue to deny it, and live with the results of your choice. However, as a Born Again Christian, I use the stories of my life to illustrate this is who I was before, and this is who I am now. You, yourself should have seen the evidence quite clearly, especially when you remember days gone by. My hope and prayer is that the hardness of your heart will be broken so that you can begin to feel and see the love the Lord has for you. He made you, you are here for a purpose, and I'm excited and hope to see the day that you come to realize that. You and many others here that I'm praying for!!!!

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August 1st, 2012, 8:34 am
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Post Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.
m2karateman wrote:
Pablo, you are being kind of unfair with W4C. You live your life as you see fit, no? You care for those who you feel like caring for, you try to do the right things. Does it matter what the driving force is behind that? Whether it is your internal sense of responsibility and accountability to mankind or God, isn't the world a better place for it?

You say that God is egotistical. Why? Because He simply would like recognition for what He's done? Isn't that a trait inherent of mankind as well? Do you enjoy it when someone else takes credit for your work? If it were to happen often enough, wouldn't you say something about it and try to out that person who stole your work as their own? Could you not, in reporting that person to your superiors, put that person in jeopardy of losing their job?

What W4C has been saying all along, and something I believe in, is that God isn't about the brick and mortar church. He isn't about your donations to the church, or the number of times you pray each day.

In my eyes, you DO have a relationship with God. It may not be the kind of relationship He may want (denial), but you have one. Many kids will scream "you're not my daddy" when they are angry at their parents. Some kids have even gone so far as to split off any relationship they had with that parent due to circumstances. Legal emancipation from your parents via the courts has happened in rare circumstances. But the relationship exists.

So, to criticize someone who happens to want to be like a person who preached to love thy neighbor, turn the other cheek, and forgive.....why is that a bad thing?


The Christian God is egotistical, it is very clear in the Bible. You repackage worship to be recognition - I don't ask to be worshipped for the work I do. And if you are saying we inherently have the same traits as God, you need to quickly recognize all the very bad traits in men as those of God as well. This would be a fun path to explore if you want to take it, my guess is that you really do not.

Why criticize? Look at other post. Does this person turn the other cheek? Love his neigbors? Forgive? He preaches it but go what he writes about Obama. Go read what he writes about someone on welfare. I could easily go back and give you hundreds of examples.

Now honestly, do you think his values truly follow those of Jesus?

Why criticize? Because of all the hypocrisy!!! What non-believers can't stand is the hypocrisy. Try to think of this in terms of politicians, what do you think of politicians who say/preach one thing but their actions are quite the opposite.

It is one thing to do something questionable, but quite another when you have been preaching against that same thing to the masses.

WWJD? This is question that believers ignore with virtually every response. Would Jesus turn away the poor or would he feed them? Would he heal the sick who couldn't pay? How would he handle illegal immigration? Would he see borders as we do? Would he turn the other check or strike back? Would he carry a gun? Would he call our president all sorts of names?

I criticize, at least in part, because of the hypocrisy. I hope that answers it...

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August 1st, 2012, 11:10 am
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Post Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.
Hold on a second, did I just get placed up on a pedastal???? :shock:

Why criticize? Look at other post. Does this person turn the other cheek? Love his neigbors? Forgive? He preaches it but go what he writes about Obama. Go read what he writes about someone on welfare. I could easily go back and give you hundreds of examples.

Now honestly, do you think his values truly follow those of Jesus?


EMPHASIS: Don't look at me as your perfect example! By the way have you walked a mile in my shoes? Do you know whether or not I love my neighbors? How about the welfare people? As for hundreds of examples you are probably correct, because I VEHEMENTLY disagree with this enemy of the state who is forcing America to change according to His ideals, and he's breaking the law, or disregarding the Constitution to do it. So yes, I do have an opinion, and I am free to voice it, but does that mean that my opinin is in line with Jesus? Do I really need to ask that question? Jesus died for Obama too! And Hitler, and Freddie Mercurie and any human that walks the Earth.

Before you go setting the standard of perfect Christian living, and put my name all over it, you need to know that I, ME, MYSELF, make my choices, and I DON"T ALWAYS MAKE THE RIGHT ONE. So there you have it, the secrets out, I'm imperfect.

As for the hypocritical statement, really? I'll be honest with you, that really hurts, because I thought you knew better than that. Unlike our President, when have I EVER said, "Do as I say, not as I do?" That's hypocracy! Living a life, and making poor choices along the way, well that's called life. The real question should be, did I learn from it? Have I changed because of it? In regards to the enemy of the state, I happen to be very passionate about the evil he's doing and the way people are sucking it up because as a society we will keep taking as long as the government keeps giving and that will be our demise. This president has truly become an Uncle Tom, not Uncle Sam, he's sold out his own people. (He's lied: see the Stupak promise broken 6 mos. later, see Fast and Furious, see Constitutional run arounds, do I need to say more?). So yes I have an opinion, but I guess I don't have a right to voice it because I'm a hypocrite.

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August 1st, 2012, 11:38 am
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Post Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.
Pablo wrote:
WWJD? This is question that believers ignore with virtually every response. Would Jesus turn away the poor or would he feed them? Would he heal the sick who couldn't pay? How would he handle illegal immigration? Would he see borders as we do? Would he turn the other check or strike back? Would he carry a gun? Would he call our president all sorts of names?

I criticize, at least in part, because of the hypocrisy. I hope that answers it...
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Post Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.
TheRealWags wrote:
Pablo wrote:
WWJD? This is question that believers ignore with virtually every response. Would Jesus turn away the poor or would he feed them? Would he heal the sick who couldn't pay? How would he handle illegal immigration? Would he see borders as we do? Would he turn the other check or strike back? Would he carry a gun? Would he call our president all sorts of names?

I criticize, at least in part, because of the hypocrisy. I hope that answers it...
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This!

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Post Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.
Pablo wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
Pablo, you are being kind of unfair with W4C. You live your life as you see fit, no? You care for those who you feel like caring for, you try to do the right things. Does it matter what the driving force is behind that? Whether it is your internal sense of responsibility and accountability to mankind or God, isn't the world a better place for it?

You say that God is egotistical. Why? Because He simply would like recognition for what He's done? Isn't that a trait inherent of mankind as well? Do you enjoy it when someone else takes credit for your work? If it were to happen often enough, wouldn't you say something about it and try to out that person who stole your work as their own? Could you not, in reporting that person to your superiors, put that person in jeopardy of losing their job?

What W4C has been saying all along, and something I believe in, is that God isn't about the brick and mortar church. He isn't about your donations to the church, or the number of times you pray each day.

In my eyes, you DO have a relationship with God. It may not be the kind of relationship He may want (denial), but you have one. Many kids will scream "you're not my daddy" when they are angry at their parents. Some kids have even gone so far as to split off any relationship they had with that parent due to circumstances. Legal emancipation from your parents via the courts has happened in rare circumstances. But the relationship exists.

So, to criticize someone who happens to want to be like a person who preached to love thy neighbor, turn the other cheek, and forgive.....why is that a bad thing?


The Christian God is egotistical, it is very clear in the Bible. You repackage worship to be recognition - I don't ask to be worshipped for the work I do. And if you are saying we inherently have the same traits as God, you need to quickly recognize all the very bad traits in men as those of God as well. This would be a fun path to explore if you want to take it, my guess is that you really do not.

Why criticize? Look at other post. Does this person turn the other cheek? Love his neigbors? Forgive? He preaches it but go what he writes about Obama. Go read what he writes about someone on welfare. I could easily go back and give you hundreds of examples.

Now honestly, do you think his values truly follow those of Jesus?

Why criticize? Because of all the hypocrisy!!! What non-believers can't stand is the hypocrisy. Try to think of this in terms of politicians, what do you think of politicians who say/preach one thing but their actions are quite the opposite.

It is one thing to do something questionable, but quite another when you have been preaching against that same thing to the masses.

WWJD? This is question that believers ignore with virtually every response. Would Jesus turn away the poor or would he feed them? Would he heal the sick who couldn't pay? How would he handle illegal immigration? Would he see borders as we do? Would he turn the other check or strike back? Would he carry a gun? Would he call our president all sorts of names?

I criticize, at least in part, because of the hypocrisy. I hope that answers it...



Im callin BS here! by your logic The lions are a condescending bunch of know it alls who know better than everyone! Thats what a fe fans post here so that MUST be how the team is as well right?

Thats your whole argument in your last post...and to be frank...I KNOW you know better than that. if you want to criticize the man...do so. but even you recognize those are not the values of the faith. If you have an issue with the hypocrasy take it up with the individual...not the faith as whole.

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August 1st, 2012, 12:17 pm
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Post Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.
LionsFan4Life wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
Pablo wrote:
WWJD? This is question that believers ignore with virtually every response. Would Jesus turn away the poor or would he feed them? Would he heal the sick who couldn't pay? How would he handle illegal immigration? Would he see borders as we do? Would he turn the other check or strike back? Would he carry a gun? Would he call our president all sorts of names?

I criticize, at least in part, because of the hypocrisy. I hope that answers it
This!


Hold on here guys. Before you all start giving Pablo a standing ovation, let's point something out.

Is welfare perfect? Is it truly ONLY feeding the hungry? No, it is not. What welfare was designed to do is far different than what it actually does.

So if you agree with that, I'll toss this at you: did Jesus not walk into a temple and start throwing a fit because it was NOT being used for its correct purpose? And if Jesus were alive today, do you think he would support the corruption behind the welfare system, both in its administrators and unjust beneficiaries, or would he rally against it....as he did against the Jewish priests who were corrupt?

And W4C is correct Pablo. Being a Christian doesn't involve being Christ-like. That may be the goal, but it is unattainable. We are humans, and have human faults. Pointing out those of W4C, or anyone else, and not your own is the height of hypocrisy. But once again let me ask the question, why is trying to follow in the footsteps of Jesus a bad thing? And how is your denial of Him a good thing?

As for God being egotistical, let me reiterate that I don't believe the Bible to be His word. It is a collection of stories, parables and writings about Him and His Son. Does He want your adoration? No, I don't believe that and never have. As a father, do you want your childs love? Yes. But do you want them to constantly sing your praises to any and all around, proclaiming you to be the greatest dad in the world everytime you tied a shoelace? No...I think you would find it embarrassing and over the top. I don't think God is any different.

That is precisely why I take Bible passages with a grain of salt when it comes to God being so vengeful, so rigid in his proclamations and so quick to anger. I realize there are those on this forum that believe the Bible to be the truth, word for word, and without fault. Personally, I think that is idolatry. It is the idolization of the works of Man, not of God.

_________________
I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.


August 1st, 2012, 12:56 pm
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