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 Tigers sign Prince Fielder to nine-year, $214 million deal 
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Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pm
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Post Re: Tigers sign Prince Fielder to nine-year, $214 million de
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Dude, if you watched the games you would have probably known that Jackson missed something around 20 games


someone looking at stats would know the same thing and wouldnt have to watch the games. poor logic again on your part.

Quote:
so that is why he ranks in the middle of the pack in several of these categories but if you look at them on the whole he ranks very well (tied for first in Fielding percentage). But that would hurt your argument.


so you reward jackson because he missed games but dont take into account that cabrera has the 2nd most innings on 3B? then you say that jackson is good bc of a high fielding percentage but turn around and say that boesch's fielding percentage is misleading? hmmm...sounds like if you stopped to think for a second you would see the lack of value in the standard stats but i am the one with the agenda right?

Quote:
As for Boesch, more incomplete data on your end. Total changes he ranks 21st, Put Outs 20th, Range Factor 21st (last of qualified players). His fielding percentage is decent but only because he hasn't had the changes that the rest of the RF have had (6th).


whats your explanation there for fielding percentage for jackson? i like it and wish you would let me use logic like that - so jackson is good bc he has a fielding percentage but boesch's fielding percentage doesnt mean he is good bc you said so. contrary to what you say, total chances (not changes) doesnt make your fielding percentage go down - Headley has more total chances than Cabrera and a better fielding percentage. so is fielding percentage a useful stat or not? i ve seen boesch and young both drop flyballs not called errors.


Quote:
I'll continue looking at the number the way I always have because they tell the whole story. You can't look at one stat and say 'There you have it'.


lets recap a little bit first. you said that cabrera leads in one stat in particular putouts which you claimed disproved my argument against cabrera s range. you left out that he is 2nd in innings. if you are using stat totals, the stats have to have a denominator. for example the range factor stat takes into account how many innings someone has played. it does not take into account balls that the player had a chance to field but did not and that is its major flaw. it is skewed by the frequency at which a ball is hit at a player, rewards them for the plays they make but does not penalize them for plays they are unable to make. ultimate zone rating assigns an area to each position in the field and basically tells you of the balls hit into the area how many the player is making a play on and compares that to an average player.

if you look at how it breaks down cabrera it gives him a league worst grade for range but gives him credit for having clean hands and a good arm (low error rate) and an above average double play rate. this is pretty much what scouting reports have been on cabrera for years. when i watch i see a player that fields balls in awkward positions often failing to get in front of the ball and instead attempting to field many balls with an ole type maneuver. at other times he has to dive for balls that others would easily get in front of.

anyway, you say that i have an agenda but you are the one ignoring what you see on a game by game basis all season long. you discount examples of plays where cabrera has blown seemingly easy plays by saying its just speculation that another player would have made the play. essentially you are ignoring what your own eyes are telling you and looking at only the outdated and massively flawed "standard" stats while ignoring the far more reflective and updated sabermetric stats. UZR by the way isnt really one stat, its a compilation of 3 defensive stats.


Quote:
I'm not claiming that Cabby is a Gold glover over there but I think he more than capable and anyone who disagrees with that is looking at it with an agenda. The fact of the matter is Cabby has outperformed everyone expectation, which in my opinion means he doing a great job.


you are essentially saying that he is one of the best 3B when YOU made the following statement -

The fact is Cabrera is one of the highest ranked 3B in the game this year and his play shows it. .

so which is it is he capable or is he one of the best in the game?

its alright man, i dont expect you to follow my argument when you cant even stay consistent with your own.


August 3rd, 2012, 10:00 am
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Joined: July 14th, 2005, 11:58 am
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Post Re: Tigers sign Prince Fielder to nine-year, $214 million de
Enough. I'm done. If you want to argue symptomatic I'm not your guy.

My Point is and always has been simple Cabrera has drastically outperformed everyone expectations, Period.


August 3rd, 2012, 1:33 pm
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Post Re: Tigers sign Prince Fielder to nine-year, $214 million de
aManNamedSuh wrote:
Enough. I'm done. If you want to argue symptomatic I'm not your guy.

My Point is and always has been simple Cabrera has drastically outperformed everyone expectations, Period.



Uhmmm, no, he hasn't. His offensive numbers are about the same, and he's below average at 3rd, at best. I'm quite confident that you can go back game by game, especially at the beginning of the season, and see just as many games lost from his glove as games won from Fielder's bat.

The whole point was that adding Prince wasn't going to benefit us all that much, and he hasn't. Most thought that we were going to be the clear cut winner of the division this year after signing Prince. We won the division by what? 15 games last year? And we're not even the best team in the division this year. We're spending nearly $30 million MORE this year in salary, and seeing virtually the same result.

To be clear, last week we had the EXACT SAME record as we did this time last year, EXACT SAME, right down to the game... But we're spending $15 million more... And you think it was a good move?

BRILLIANT!!! :cheers: :idea:


August 3rd, 2012, 2:09 pm
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Post Re: Tigers sign Prince Fielder to nine-year, $214 million de
I never said it was a good move. I said he's drastically outperform everyone expectations in regards to playing 3rd.


August 3rd, 2012, 2:29 pm
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Post Re: Tigers sign Prince Fielder to nine-year, $214 million de
All i care is that the team is winning now, i dont care who is doing the hitting or getting the outs, the TEAM is winning.

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April 22nd, 2010 @ 7:44p.m. "The Detroit Lions select...Ndamukong Suh". Those are some beautiful words.


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August 3rd, 2012, 9:43 pm
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Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pm
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Post Re: Tigers sign Prince Fielder to nine-year, $214 million de
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Enough. I'm done. If you want to argue symptomatic I'm not your guy.


symptomatic? what?


August 3rd, 2012, 11:47 pm
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