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 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code. 
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RIP Killer
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Post Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.
Pablo wrote:
I shouldn't say "setting" standards, you were simply reiterating well known standards of Christianity and I played off of them.

For example, love they neighbor - isn't Mexico our neighbor? I have seen a lot of anger directed at Mexicans who cross the border. My question is how would Jesus view them? Put this same criteria on our poor neighbors. How do you think Jesus would view your stance on

You said turn the other check (meaning cheek), I personally don't think Jesus would carry a gun. Do you?

Forgive? Do the comments W4C has made against Obama sound like forgiveness?

I'm not saying you can't preach Christianity, I'm saying if you do be prepared to be called out as being hypocritical when your words/actions are in direct conflict. Man, I just called out the hypocrisy - imagine being told over and over that your lack of belief will condemn you to eternity in hell - now that is something to get upset about.

Now that I've called out hypocrisy, I'm going to forgive it all in a Christian manner and wipe the slate clean and exit this thread for awhile. (BTW - M2K I hope you do know I respect your views very much as you have always explained your beliefs in a spirtual and logical fashion so please don't take anything here personal)

Peace out!


Pablo,

Many of the things you state here make really good sense, and clears up some things...at least for me. I know that if I am putting myself out there as a Christian that I am subjecting myself to harsher criticism than if I just make the statements without the religious overtones or reference. It is the risk you take.

And I am not taking anything personal from you. You are and always have been a very stand up, respectable person, even in the midst of a heated debate. I wish I could say the same for myself. In that regard, you are actually more Christian than I am (no offense, it's a compliment).

As for whether or not Jesus would carry a gun, I cannot say. I don't carry a gun, or study martial arts, so that I can hurt other people. I do it so that I can help myself and others, if the truth be told. And let us not forget, that despite the fact that Jesus didn't carry a weapon, his followers were armed in Gethsemane the night he was arrested, and even attacked a soldier....whom Jesus then healed. I can't say I'd be that forgiving. Call it human fraility.

My religious convictions often conflict with my personal poltical beliefs, I know this, and it is a point of internal turmoil for me at times. I guess the difference is that I don't seek to harm others without what I believe to be just cause. If God or Jesus don't feel my cause is just, it's something I'll have to answer for when the time comes.

Immigration - I have no problem with it, as long as it's LEGAL. It's the illegal part that bothers me. Criminals don't follow the legal system, and therefore I feel that if there is a crackdown on illegal immigration it could help some of the crime issues in this country, which are ever increasingly committed by undocumented (illegal) immigrants.

Like you and W4C, I think it's time to take a break from this thread. We've spoken our peace, and I hope have maintained our dignity and respect for each other in the process.

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August 2nd, 2012, 10:38 am
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Post Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.
leave it to cooler heads to prevail! lol


well if we're ending this debate someone start another one, I got a boring day at work today! :-$ lol

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August 2nd, 2012, 11:02 am
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Post Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.
regularjoe12 wrote:
leave it to cooler heads to prevail! lol


well if we're ending this debate someone start another one[/color], I got a boring day at work today! :-$ lol



Taste Great or Less Filling????


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August 3rd, 2012, 11:01 pm
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Post Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Eric,

I have a question that I thought about in regards to your statement about Pascal's Wager. You are asking me to believe the theory of this man Pascal in regards to eternity, so how is he the authority on whether or not his theory is true?

The reason it is false, is that the person making this "bet" is assuming that HIS God is the only one to bet on. That is completely false, of course.

By your own statement here you are making a judgment based upon your belief. Over the course of your life, you have perpetually chosen to deny the existence of God ( this is my opinion based on your statements) and you back it up with different findings of people like you and I. They may be smarter, or more educated, but they are still people and unable to fully fathom the mysteries of God. In other words, it's still the created trying to demand proof of the creator and making a judgment based upon a severly limited perspective.

So in the end, my math still holds true and I assure you that it is a strong wager, just not very convenient to the unbelieving crowd.

As for the self-referencing comment, I don't understand why that should be a bad thing? Am I not correct in the fact that unless you try the water for yourself, you must then take my word for it? Here's something that may surprise you: You my friend have A LOT of faith, I am amazed, and excited because of the faith I see in you, it just happens to be in some pretty extreme things. Having said that, my prayer has been that the eyes of your heart will be opened to the mysteries of God so you can quit shaking your fist at him. You and Pablo both demand signs and proof that God exists, but you aren't able to accept the proof that's already been given. God is in the details! But using science and the higher thinking of other CREATED individuals, you've based your faith on mans thinking, and that is where I'm trying to encourage you to aim higher.

It's about the relationship, not the religion. It's about the journey not the building, it's about getting to know God and understanding who he's created you to be. But the stubborn refusal by demanding proof will get you no where. All proof that has ever been needed, has already been given! At some point you are just going to have to make the choice to accept it, or continue to deny it, and live with the results of your choice. However, as a Born Again Christian, I use the stories of my life to illustrate this is who I was before, and this is who I am now. You, yourself should have seen the evidence quite clearly, especially when you remember days gone by. My hope and prayer is that the hardness of your heart will be broken so that you can begin to feel and see the love the Lord has for you. He made you, you are here for a purpose, and I'm excited and hope to see the day that you come to realize that. You and many others here that I'm praying for!!!!


You may have missed the point on Pascal's Wager. Pascal is the one who made the wager, and it is named after him. It is Pascal's explanation for why it makes sense to bet on God's existence. But experts on the subject of logical thought agree that the wager is a logical fallacy - it is based on an assumption that isn't true. Like I said, there are multiple possible Gods to bet on, so the odds are against you - not for you. That's not my opinion... just math. And again - my secondary point about an ultimate power's obvious visibility into the authenticity of of the sincerity of a person making the wager makes it kind of a silly gesture anyway. Whichever God truly existed, if any, would recognize what was in each person's heart without their social posturing.

On self-referencing... no, it isn't a good thing, if you're trying to be convincing. Saying, "I know the book is right because it says so" is not a compelling point of view. Or saying, "I know I'm right in my beliefs because they make me happy & feel good" is also not convincing. Because I can say the exact same thing. Again - there is no proof that has been given... a book that boasts to be the truth with no basis in evidence isn't enough.

What is it, exactly, that is "extreme" that I believe? Please don't provide another cartoonish strawman of the origin of life from a scientific point of view and then call it absurd. What I believe to be likely ... is based on real math, statistics & science, not dumbed-down constructs that are intentionally made to look extreme by people with different biases.


August 4th, 2012, 6:06 pm
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Post Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.
regularjoe12 wrote:
leave it to cooler heads to prevail! lol


well if we're ending this debate someone start another one, I got a boring day at work today! :-$ lol


Ginger or Maryanne?

Chrissie or Janet (Three's Company)?

Lily Munster or Morticia Adams?


Take your pick....

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August 6th, 2012, 9:17 am
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Post Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.
Ginger or Maryanne? Ginger for a Friday night..Maryanne for meeting mom

Chrissie or Janet (Three's Company)? Both? although if you have to pick one it's a no brainer...Janet's always been a bit ugly IMO

Lily Munster or Morticia Adams? Morticia for sure.....now if we exchange Lily Munster with Judy Jetson it's a much tougher choice!

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August 6th, 2012, 9:39 am
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Post Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.
What is it, exactly, that is "extreme" that I believe? Please don't provide another cartoonish strawman of the origin of life from a scientific point of view and then call it absurd. What I believe to be likely ... is based on real math, statistics & science, not dumbed-down constructs that are intentionally made to look extreme by people with different biases.

Ok, as you can tell I'm back, and hypocritical as ever! So while I was away bashing obama, and not feeding the poor, and ridiculing those on welfare, I had time to consider a few things.....

Eric thanks for responding, I can see your point about Pascal's Wager, but I still see it as a moot point. You will not be able to see it from my perspective without faith, and I can not, and will not see it from your perspective because of my faith, so that, I believe leads us to an empasse.

In regards to the extremity of what you believe, I don't mean this to be negative or sound negative so please don't take it that way. Science is fascinating in what it can discover or has discovered. The theories can be outlandish at times, because they are little more than educated guesses at best, but at least they're a guess in a specific direction. One of the things that has often confused me is the inability to see the detail because the details are in the way. That the whole tree and forest thingy.... We have known laws that exist, gravity being the easiest to bring up, that exist for a reason. Science can tell you how it comes about, and maybe even why. But, from my perspective, what science can not do is tell you who wrote the law of gravity. I personally call this setting the sights too low. For all of the known laws of physics and beyond, these things have been engineered down to specifics of the most minute scale. The human body is one item that is so specific, and so huge in scale by each of the individual components operating in conjunction and so on that there remain many mysteries about how things work or why. But I assure you that we will be on other sides of the aisle even in this, because I see a divine creator, and tie it into Scripture, and you see it as the mysteries of Science. I'm not going to disrespect your stance, nor tell you that you're wrong, I just happen to believe that you are aiming too low in your pursuit of knowledge. But that's a difference of opinion and nothing more, and not worth fighting over.

Obviously, based on the recent criticism of some others, I should be off killing baby seals, while using my 3 stroke seal killing engine, so that the polar bears won't have ice to float on, therefore starving them of their food, oh yeah baby seals. Heaven forbid, I be human and Christian at the same time, subject to passions and feelings, thoughts and perspectives. Can I choose not to support a man who is openly destroying this country by circumventing the known laws? Can I not openly disagree with you or anyone else about anything else, or must I now tow that company line too?

The funny thing is that Pablo has access to my FB page via the friends list, and he above all people should know whether or not I'm being hypocritical. Does my fb page show slews of anti-obama rhetoric? Wait, I know, am I denegrating the poor, and ridiculing the people on welfare with every other post? I can assure you and I'm willing to provide the documents, that I do not. I may voice an opinion from time to time, but most of my stuff is related to prayer, or posting quotations that mean something and are meant to encourage my friends who have befriended me, so if I were being hypocritical then it would GLARE through every fiber of my being, and I say it does not.

I'm sure much of what Pablo included as "hundreds of posts" were probably under my old name Devil Doc. You do see that I changed that a while ago right? My attitude was different, my demeanor and plan were different, even my topics. Otherwise, Eric, you and I would be cyberfighting, and probably trying to arrange for a place to meet so we can handle this man to man.

Instead, I'd rather put my faith where my mouth is, with all of my foibles, and let you and anyone who cares to read know, that I love you guys in the Lord and I will keep praying despite the name calling. So have a blessed day, and can you hand me that club, I missed one over here!

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August 7th, 2012, 11:58 am
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Post Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.
That's cool. You really do have an extremely limited undertanding of science, though - which makes it hard to discuss some of these things.

Science is not just a bunch of educated guesses - it is the exact opposite. It is based on very rigorous proofs and evidence, and things that are "explained" in one discipline (e.g. geology, astronomy) are also verified and cross-proved by other disciplines (anthropology, biology, chemistry). This is the last time I'll post this here (I've see in explained here countless time, and the "faithful" just ignore the concept & repeat the statement that science is "just a theory"): The word "theory" in science is powerful & meaningful. It does not mean "guess" - it means an hypothesis that has been tested & tested rigorously against significant evidence, and passed every time (or it fails, and is dismissed). For example, is Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" just a guess? Ask the folks in Hiroshima. Or at the power plant. We know how things work, and why. Evolution is a Theory that has been tested more than any other - and has passed every time.

You see - you're entitled to believe what you want to believe - but it isn't reasonable to claim that science is just guesses about the mysterious.


August 8th, 2012, 4:17 pm
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Post Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.
Eric,

I hope you don't think I was trying to insult your intelligence when I made the statement about educated guesses, I truly was not. The tone that I'm hearing while reading your post, suggest that you are perturbed by that, and it wasn't meant that way at all.

It is amazing how much you do know, and that is obviously a passion for you, and I'm glad you're willing to pursue it. Me, not so much. Not that I don't find science fascinating, it's just that I prefer the relational, as compared to the theory. I don't know if I'm making sense here, but what I'm trying to say, is that the details about how something works, just doesn't flip my trigger. Now if you were to ask me to lead a project, or help someone out, or fix a house, trash out a place, etc. I'm all for it. I'm more hands on, and relational than I am about the detail. So again, please don't misinterpret my statement, nor take offense, none was meant at all.

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2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


August 8th, 2012, 4:49 pm
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Post Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.
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August 9th, 2012, 10:30 am
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