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 NFL faces another labor battle, with officials 
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Post Re: NFL faces another labor battle, with officials
wjb21ndtown wrote:
The Legend wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
I gotta say, I didn't think the officiating would suffer that much, but I was completely wrong. I swear these guys they have out there are completely clueless. I've seen numerous OBVIOUS pass interference calls missed. Helmet to helmet shots missed. Phantom calls (Ricardo Silva, game one) being made that have absolutely no business being made. It's been in every game I've watched, and it's been for both weeks.

I am not a big fan of unions or their members. However, these replacement guys are in way over their heads. These calls (or lack thereof) could end up getting someone seriously hurt, or cost a team a game that they rightfully should have won. I know this happens with the regular officials, but not on the scope that it's happening with the replacements they have.


it seemed that in week 1 they were undercalling the games and then in week 2 they were overcalling. im sure the league reviewed the job they did and pointed out how many missed calls there were. we ll see if it equilibrates at all this coming week. they have been a total joke for the most part though i think they ll get better at keeping the game flowing and making the right markoffs, etc.


I agree... I also think that in week one the crowd really got to the refs. They made "popular calls" and were very "homerish." I was at the week 1 Lions game, and I thought it was very one-sided officiating, unintentional, but one-sided nonetheless. I know people can point to a couple calls questionable calls that went against, but I'm telling you, there were TONS of calls (or non-calls) that went our way.

That said, outside of a few really bad calls I think the officiating hasn't been terrible. Factor in that its the pre-season and I'm not worried one bit that this crew can get it together.

One thing that absolutely maddens me... IMO ALL of the reviews should be done by a central office, on a HUGE LCD screen, and they should be started as soon as the question comes up. It's silly that the ref literally has to walk to the "hood" investigate the call on on a small screen, do the rewinding, camera angles, etc. all right there, and takes FOREVER to make a call. Under the current system reviews are adding tons of awkward time to the game, and disrupt the flow, it needs to be re-vamped... Especially now that they're going to investigate every score (and possibly every turnover?) without a challenge.


totally agree


August 22nd, 2012, 10:17 am
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Post Re: NFL faces another labor battle, with officials
Who else is lovin' these awesome replacement refs? The league really stuck it to the regulars, didn't they guys? #-o ](*,) :-&

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August 23rd, 2012, 9:07 am
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Post Re: NFL faces another labor battle, with officials
AP wrote:
Commish confident in fill-in refs
Updated: August 24, 2012, 12:49 PM ET
Associated Press

NEW YORK -- NFL commissioner Roger Goodell says possibly using replacement referees for regular-season games is worthwhile to ensure long-term improvements to officiating.

The league and the NFL Referees Association have yet to reach an agreement, and Goodell acknowledged Thursday that time was running out to make the regular officials available for the openers.

"We're anxious to get a deal done, but it has to get done that it's going to help us for the long term," Goodell said at a fantasy football event in Times Square. "It's not a short-term issue."

Officials probably need a week to 10 days to prepare for the season, Goodell said, and the first game is Sept. 5, 13 days away. The first full Sunday of games is Sept. 9.

"These officials have been trained," Goodell said of the replacement refs who have been calling preseason games. "We've been working with them. We think they'll do a very credible job."

NFLRA lead negotiator Mike Arnold said Thursday that officials have been training on their own during the lockout and would need less than a week to prep.

"We're ready to go," he said.

While the NFL and officials disagree on some financial matters, Goodell also characterized the differences as "philosophical." The NFL's proposal includes making some refs full time -- currently all game officials work part time with outside jobs -- and adding more crews.

Arnold said that the union was open to discussing such issues, but any proposal to increase the number of officials while decreasing the pay for current refs was not viable.

Increasing the pool of officials would allow the league to replace individual officials or entire crews that are not performing well, Goodell said.

"Then it's based on performance, which is what fans all want, players all want, coaches all want," he said.

The replacement officials have been closely scrutinized during the preseason, with any error quickly pointed out by media and fans.

"It's not our job to judge the replacements, because their performance speaks for itself," Arnold said.

Goodell said he wasn't concerned that teams and fans would question the credibility of results if that inevitable first disputed call of the season takes place while replacement officials are on the field.

"We have controversial calls. Officiating is an imperfect science," he said. "They're not going to be correct all the time, but we have systems in place to try to help. We have instant replay, as an example, to try to help correct those mistakes. ... It's like any game. We get calls every Monday from fans, from coaches, from teams upset about a particular call. That happens. And it will happen going forward regardless of who's on the field."


Copyright 2012 by The Associated Press

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/82963 ... -officials

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August 24th, 2012, 1:22 pm
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Post Re: NFL faces another labor battle, with officials
I love it. I'm so damn sick of labor unions, the "seniority system," lack of accountability, and ridiculous, greedy demands that I would rather see a few blown calls than have the league cave to their demands.


August 24th, 2012, 1:46 pm
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Post Re: NFL faces another labor battle, with officials
wjb21ndtown wrote:
I love it. I'm so damn sick of labor unions, the "seniority system," lack of accountability, and ridiculous, greedy demands that I would rather see a few blown calls than have the league cave to their demands.



im inclined to agree with you....but it's going to be tough watching these clowns take 10 minutes to figure out where to spot the ball and if it's a first down or not


hopefully it will all be worth it in the long run

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August 24th, 2012, 1:55 pm
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Post Re: NFL faces another labor battle, with officials
regularjoe12 wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
I love it. I'm so damn sick of labor unions, the "seniority system," lack of accountability, and ridiculous, greedy demands that I would rather see a few blown calls than have the league cave to their demands.



im inclined to agree with you....but it's going to be tough watching these clowns take 10 minutes to figure out where to spot the ball and if it's a first down or not


hopefully it will all be worth it in the long run


I really don't think it's that bad. IMO ESPN is making a bigger deal out of their "gaffes" than they should. After week 1 they did their weekly stupid screw up in sports thing, and 8 of the top 10 screw ups were refs, and one of the biggest ones was a ref spotting the ball outside of the hash marks... Really? That's a huge deal? Is it dumb, yes, does it make them bad refs, no... It was just an innocent mistake. There were only two real blown calls (the touch back when it clearly wasn't... it was downed at the 5 yard line, and one other that I can't remember), and it was their FIRST DAMN WEEK. Not to mention that Union refs screw up too, and they screw up badly. Remember the coin toss at the Silverdome??? That was a Union guy...

Union sports writers, supporting a union ref crew... surprise surprise... =;

The biggest problem with "taking 10 minutes," IMO is the league allowing refs to perform reviews on the sideline. I don't know if it's part of the union agreement or what the deal is, but like I said, they should be done off-site, started as soon as the play ends, and be done by the time the ref goes to the sideline to pick up the phone to get the call.


August 24th, 2012, 2:00 pm
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Post Re: NFL faces another labor battle, with officials
i dunno about blaiming ESPN about calling out the refs. i have personally watched 3 games where they had severe difficulty just figuring out if there was a 1st down or not....and for some reason in all 3 games they chose NOT to measure for it. ( 2 of em they actually changed their mind about it..STILL without measuring) :-k :-k :-k

But...Like I said before....hopefully the ends justify the means.

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August 24th, 2012, 2:30 pm
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Post Re: NFL faces another labor battle, with officials
regularjoe12 wrote:
i dunno about blaiming ESPN about calling out the refs. i have personally watched 3 games where they had severe difficulty just figuring out if there was a 1st down or not....and for some reason in all 3 games they chose NOT to measure for it. ( 2 of em they actually changed their mind about it..STILL without measuring) :-k :-k :-k

But...Like I said before....hopefully the ends justify the means.


I just hope that some accountability will come out of it... Meaning... if someone blows a call really bad, they get some sort of reprimand (suspension without pay) or even fired if it happens multiple times. The current system, from what I understand, is reward based only (call games really well and you get to work harder!!!... by reffing the SB).


August 24th, 2012, 2:33 pm
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Post Re: NFL faces another labor battle, with officials
wjb21ndtown wrote:
regularjoe12 wrote:
i dunno about blaiming ESPN about calling out the refs. i have personally watched 3 games where they had severe difficulty just figuring out if there was a 1st down or not....and for some reason in all 3 games they chose NOT to measure for it. ( 2 of em they actually changed their mind about it..STILL without measuring) :-k :-k :-k

But...Like I said before....hopefully the ends justify the means.


I just hope that some accountability will come out of it... Meaning... if someone blows a call really bad, they get some sort of reprimand (suspension without pay) or even fired if it happens multiple times. The current system, from what I understand, is reward based only (call games really well and you get to work harder!!!... by reffing the SB).



I agree 100%

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August 24th, 2012, 2:39 pm
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Post Re: NFL faces another labor battle, with officials
I don't think the NFL is negotiating in good faith (do they ever?), and they think the fans are dumb enough to not notice the difference. But I'll tell you this, the first time one of these amateurs costs somebody a real game, people are gonna freak out. It's gonna be the CJ rule x 10 because it could have been prevented so easily.

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August 24th, 2012, 4:20 pm
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Post Re: NFL faces another labor battle, with officials
PFT wrote:
Talk continues about replacement officials, but still no action
Posted by Mike Florio on August 28, 2012, 2:12 PM EDT

With the start of the regular season only eight days away and no signs of any progress toward ending the lockout of the game officials, more players are talking but there’s still no evidence that the NFLPA will be taking any action.

“I’ve said before that on a scale of 1 to 10, I think this is a 12,” NFLPA executive director DeMaurice Smith told the New York Times. “With the regular season approaching, my level of concern is only increasing.”

While that concern undoubtedly won’t give rise to a player walkout, it’s somewhat surprising that the increasingly-litigious NFLPA hasn’t taken some type of legal action aimed at forcing the league to fix this.

Players generally have not affirmatively been speaking out. The Times article from Sam Borden collects sound bites from various players who expressed concern in response to questions from the media. Borden properly balanced things out with the league’s sound bites about the replacements doing a “credible” job, with some refreshing candor.

“We will not come out and say they are without their warts, but we will say that we’ve seen improvement every week,” NFL V.P. of football operations Greg Anderson told the Times. “At the end of it, we are very confident that this group of current officials will be credible.”

Observers of the game generally are less confident. If we assume that the NFL has hired the best of the best officials, the NFL necessarily will be using something less than the best of the best, if the best of the best are locked out. Why play Russian Roulette with the safety of the players and the integrity of the game?

Of course, not everyone feels that way. And it’s spawned what could be the first documented case of Yahoo-on-Yahoo crime. Says Doug Farrar: “[T]he NFL’s replacement officials are turning the nation’s most popular and visible sport into a complete and utter joke.” Says Jason Cole: “The argument that NFL owners are messing with the integrity of the game in their negotiation with the NFL Referees Association is laughable.”

Cole asks, “When was the last time you went to a game and said, ‘Boy, that officiating was great’?”

It happens roughly as often as anyone goes to a game and says the long-snapping or the holding was great. The officials are part of the infrastructure that is supposed to exist in the background. We shouldn’t applaud the officiating. We shouldn’t notice it all.

The replacement officials are making us notice them, because they are making mistakes not only in the heat of the play but after the whistle is blown. The stage is simply too big for many of them. The challenge for the league remains getting them comfortable, quickly. As folks who are used to maneuvering around smaller, slower players with dozens of fans in the stands, the replacements need to get past the awe that Maximus and company experienced when they walked into the Coliseum for the first time.

Through three weeks, the magnitude of the games continues to invade the brains of folks who should be able to get the spot right and mark of penalties correctly and not call a touchback on a punt when the ball clearly was downed in the field of play. Our point continues to be that, regardless of who’s being unreasonable in the negotiations, the stewards of the game need to work this out.

That includes the locked-out officials. If they truly care about the game, they’ll find a way bridge the divide. And if the best offer the NFL has made ultimately isn’t good enough, they can always find another hobby for which they receive a ton of money.

Well, maybe they can’t.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... no-action/

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August 28th, 2012, 4:01 pm
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Post Re: NFL faces another labor battle, with officials
thelomasbrowns wrote:
I don't think the NFL is negotiating in good faith (do they ever?), and they think the fans are dumb enough to not notice the difference. But I'll tell you this, the first time one of these amateurs costs somebody a real game, people are gonna freak out. It's gonna be the CJ rule x 10 because it could have been prevented so easily.


Game breaking calls have been blown in the past, I really don't think it's going to be that different.

Just curious, how do you think the league has been negotiating in bad faith?


August 28th, 2012, 5:31 pm
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Post Re: NFL faces another labor battle, with officials
TheRealWags wrote:
PFT-Mike Florio wrote:
That includes the locked-out officials. If they truly care about the game, they’ll find a way bridge the divide. And if the best offer the NFL has made ultimately isn’t good enough, they can always find another hobby for which they receive a ton of money.

Well, maybe they can’t.




Amen


August 28th, 2012, 6:50 pm
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Post Re: NFL faces another labor battle, with officials
PFT wrote:
De Smith calls officials lockout “absurd,” doesn’t rule out a strike
Posted by Mike Florio on August 28, 2012, 8:34 PM EDT

The talk regarding the lockout of the officials continues. It’s still unknown whether the NFLPA will take action.

But the NFLPA hasn’t ruled out doing so.

NFLPA executive director DeMaurice Smith, in an extensive interview with SI.com, was asked about the possibility that players will withhold services due to concerns regarding safety risks associated with the replacement officials.

“In America it is the employer’s obligation to provide as safe a working environment as possible,” Smith told Jim Trotter of SI.com. “We believe that if the National Football League fails in that obligation we reserve the right to seek any relief that we believe is appropriate. The NFL has chosen to prevent the very officials that they have trained, championed and cultivated for decades to be on the field to protect players and — by their own admission — further our goal of enhanced safety. That is absurd on its face.”

To some, the possibility of a player strike may seem absurd on its face. We explained last month that it could happen, despite the presence of a no strike/no lockout provision in the CBA. Still, if the players wouldn’t risk a paycheck in order to get a better overall deal with the owners in 2011, they won’t risk paychecks over safety concerns that, based on their chronic resistance to rules changes and fines/suspensions levied by the league office, don’t concern them.

Still, the NFLPA can do other things, from making the case for the lockout to end to filing a grievance or other legal action aimed at forcing the league to allow the locked-out officials to return to work. It sounds like something tangible could be coming.

“We’ve been very public in saying that we believe on a scale of 1-10 the use of replacement referees in the preseason is a 12,” Smith said. “That goes up to a 16 now that you’re entering into the regular season.”

Smith identified three “fundamental facts that are inescapable” in support of his views: “One, the players and the league have made tremendous strides in trying to make the game safer over the last three years. The second fact is, at the players’ urging, the National Football League last year gave the referees more power to spot and deal with a concussed or injured player. The third inescapable fact is, over the last 20 years the league has done everything to maintain an experienced referee corps.”

He pointed out that, typically, rookie officials are introduced only with a team of experienced officials., and that the locked-out officials have nearly 1,500 years of experience. So why would the NFL use entire teams of rookie officials? “The only conclusion that I have,” Smith said, “is that the league cares more about money than it does about the experience of the referees as a vehicle to increase player safety.”

Smith also called upon owners to be involved in the process.

“The owners have invested in the players, and each and every owner loves what keeps the National Football League unique among sports. And it’s two things, on any given Sunday a team could win; and every game matters,” Smith said. “So my question to the owners is, because those two things are true, why would they ever want to leave the game in critical moments in the hands of referees that they ordinarily would never hire? I mean, If these referees were so credible, how come they hadn’t hired them before the lockout?”

We’ve disagreed with Smith at certain times in the past. It’s very hard to disagree with him on this point.

Using new officials creates a risk of errors that will affect the outcomes of games. With the margin between making the playoffs and not making the playoffs at times razor thin and with recent history showing us that any team that gets in to the postseason can run the table, a bad, game-altering call in Week One could, in a roundabout way, have an effect on the outcome of the season.

The two sides simply don’t seem to be far enough apart to justify that risk. The problem is that there’s no one who can clunk the parties’ heads together, Moe Howard-style, and force them to find a middle ground.

Until that happens, the two sides will continue to line up like the boys and the girls on opposite walls at the junior high dance, waiting for each other to make the first move.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -a-strike/

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August 29th, 2012, 10:18 am
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Post Re: NFL faces another labor battle, with officials
Great! We might be looking at another strike if the NFL and the Officials can't come to some terms. I can say, I see where Smith is coming from regarding player safety as he said in this article.

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August 29th, 2012, 10:48 am
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