View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently October 23rd, 2014, 1:21 am



Reply to topic  [ 147 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 10  Next
 NFL faces another labor battle, with officials 
Author Message
Modmin Dude
User avatar

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 am
Posts: 12139
Post Re: NFL faces another labor battle, with officials
LionsFan4Life wrote:
Great! We might be looking at another strike if the NFL and the Officials can't come to some terms. I can say, I see where Smith is coming from regarding player safety as he said in this article.
First off, I don't see the players giving up game checks to support the officials; heck, they weren't willing to give up game checks to support themselves last off-season.

Secondly, where is the proof in reference to 'player safety'? Have there been more, less, or no difference in player injuries this preseason as opposed to past preseasons?

IMO it basically comes down to one union (NFLPA) supporting another union (NFLRA)

_________________
Quote:
Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....


August 29th, 2012, 11:16 am
Profile
Fired Head Coach (0-16 record)
User avatar

Joined: April 5th, 2007, 5:51 pm
Posts: 2283
Post Re: NFL faces another labor battle, with officials
TheRealWags wrote:
LionsFan4Life wrote:
Great! We might be looking at another strike if the NFL and the Officials can't come to some terms. I can say, I see where Smith is coming from regarding player safety as he said in this article.
First off, I don't see the players giving up game checks to support the officials; heck, they weren't willing to give up game checks to support themselves last off-season.

Secondly, where is the proof in reference to 'player safety'? Have there been more, less, or no difference in player injuries this preseason as opposed to past preseasons?

IMO it basically comes down to one union (NFLPA) supporting another union (NFLRA)


Nailed It.


August 29th, 2012, 11:45 am
Profile ICQ WWW
Fired Head Coach (0-16 record)
User avatar

Joined: October 30th, 2004, 12:30 pm
Posts: 2205
Location: Austin, TX
Post Re: NFL faces another labor battle, with officials
DJ-B wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
LionsFan4Life wrote:
Great! We might be looking at another strike if the NFL and the Officials can't come to some terms. I can say, I see where Smith is coming from regarding player safety as he said in this article.
First off, I don't see the players giving up game checks to support the officials; heck, they weren't willing to give up game checks to support themselves last off-season.

Secondly, where is the proof in reference to 'player safety'? Have there been more, less, or no difference in player injuries this preseason as opposed to past preseasons?

IMO it basically comes down to one union (NFLPA) supporting another union (NFLRA)


Nailed It.


True about the players not wanting to give up game checks, didn't think about that at 1st. After I thought about it some more, it sounds like posturing to get the NFL and the Officials to come to terms.

_________________
Image

NEVER GIVE UP!


August 29th, 2012, 12:20 pm
Profile
Modmin Dude
User avatar

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 am
Posts: 12139
Post Re: NFL faces another labor battle, with officials
PFT wrote:
NFL will start season with replacement officials
Posted by Michael David Smith on August 29, 2012, 2:37 PM EDT

The NFL’s replacement officials aren’t going away any time soon.

The league confirmed today in a memo sent to all 32 teams that the regular season will open with replacement officials, as the lockout of the NFL Referees Association continues.

The NFL says it’s ready to negotiate with the locked-out officials, but they’re not close enough to reaching an agreement that it’s realistic to think the regular officials could be on the field when the season starts, one week from tonight.

This year’s preseason games have seen plenty of bad calls, and several players have questioned whether the officials are in over their heads. A bad call that costs a team a regular-season game would surely amplify the cries for the league to get a deal done with its officials, but the NFL has insisted that the replacements are capable of doing the job. We’re about to get at least 16 regular-season games for the replacements to show that the league office is right — or to show that the NFL is jeopardizing the integrity of the game by refusing to finalize a deal.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... officials/

_________________
Quote:
Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....


August 29th, 2012, 3:42 pm
Profile
Modmin Dude
User avatar

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 am
Posts: 12139
Post Re: NFL faces another labor battle, with officials
PFT wrote:
Breaking down the divide in the NFL-NFLRA dispute
Posted by Mike Florio on August 30, 2012, 10:37 AM EDT

The one thing we can saying with certainty about the NFL and the locked-out officials is that they’re not saying anything to each other. Until they do, they won’t be able to bridge the gap on financial and other issues.

So if they were to sit down and try, what would the gap be?

The driving factor is, as always, money. The league contends that it has offered annual raises between five and 11 percent, pointing out that the average pay for NFL officials last season was $149,000. (Not bad for a hobby.) Under the NFL’s most recent (and perhaps final) proposal, the average official would earn $189,000 by 2018.

First-year officials earned, on average, $78,000 in 2011. Under the NFL’s most recent (and perhaps final) proposal, the average first-year official from 2011 would be making $165,000 by 2018.

The officials, obviously, want more. (Otherwise, they’d have a deal.) The characterization of the gap depends on the perspective of the party characterizing it. The NFLRA says it amounts to $100,000 per team per year. Factoring in the preseason, that’s $5,000 per team per game. The league sees the difference more broadly, as a canyon that amounts t $22.7 million over seven years. (Of course, over those same seven years the league will likely have generated more than $70 billion in total revenues.)

With 119 total officials, it all works out to an average divide of $27,250 per official per year.

Another major dispute flows from retirement benefits. Like many employers, the NFL wants to convert its defined benefit plan to a 401(k) defined contribution plan, shifting the risks of the market to the individual employees. Given that, for most if not all officials, working games is a well-paying hobby, being treated in their hobbies like the vast majority of American workers shouldn’t be a big deal.

The NFL also wants to add 21 more officials (three total crews), in order to provide the league with a “bench” that could be used during the season to replace officials who are struggling. While the league apparently would be paying all officials out of the same pot, if the average increases cited by the league take into account the expanded roster of officials, it should be a non-issue. (It’s likely an issue because the locked-out officials don’t want to have in-season accountability.)

The issue of full-time officials could be controversial not for what it means now but for what it could mean in the future. If the NFL plans to eventually convert their officials to full-time employees (as the NFL should), the total package of compensation likely will be less than the total money earned by many officials in their “real” jobs and at their hobbies. The locked-out officials likely prefer to not go down that path at all.

Many would prefer that the league not go down the path of replacement officials, but if the locked-out officials aren’t willing to accept what some would regard as an objectively fair offer, what should the NFL do? Not play the games? Or cave in to the demands simply because the NFL can “afford” to pay the locked-out officials what they want?

While it’s reasonable for the officials to look at the success of the game and say “we want more,” the officials need to realize that no one goes to the games to see them, and that they are indeed replaceable.

The problem is that the process of replacing all of them at once with only a few months to prepare puts the league in a delicate spot. And the locked-out officials know it.

We’re trying hard not to pick sides on this one. We just want the regular officials to get back on the job, which will happen sooner rather than later only if the two sides start talking.

While it’s easy to insist that the NFL bridge the gap because the NFL has the money to do it, the locked-out officials aren’t exactly hurting, either. And so, if the replacement officials end up screwing things up, we’ll ultimately blame not only the entity that locked out the regular officials but also the regular officials who forced the lockout by wanting more of a raise than most Americans are currently getting in their primary (and only) jobs.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... ra-disput/

_________________
Quote:
Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....


August 30th, 2012, 11:46 am
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 am
Posts: 9494
Location: Dallas
Post Re: NFL faces another labor battle, with officials
OK, I'm solving this now.

1) $ - we will split the difference, $20K raise
2) Retirement - you get the 401K, welcome to the 21st century
3) Crews - we will add one new crew this year, and one next
4) Full-time, OK guys you can keep your day jobs as most of you make more $ there anyways and you do a fine job working part time

Now lets get to work.

_________________
Image
LB Tweet


August 30th, 2012, 11:51 am
Profile WWW
Hall of Fame Player
User avatar

Joined: May 7th, 2005, 3:25 pm
Posts: 7441
Location: Earth/Sagittarius Dwarf Galaxy
Post Re: NFL faces another labor battle, with officials
I don't care if the regular refs ever come back. The way I see it, the replacement refs can not possibly butcher a call any worse than the No-Win-Completion. Officiating has been horrible for the last 3 years and getting worse with each passing season as they get older.


August 30th, 2012, 5:45 pm
Profile
Modmin Dude
User avatar

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 am
Posts: 12139
Post Re: NFL faces another labor battle, with officials
PFT wrote:
Goodell doesn’t rule out use of regular officials in Week One
Posted by Mike Florio on August 30, 2012, 6:53 PM EDT

The replacement officials could end up getting locked out.

A day after the NFL announced that the locked-out officials won’t work the games to be played in Week One of the 2012 regular season, Commissioner Roger Goodell dropped a strong hint that the regular officials could be back in time for the games that count.

Albert Breer of NFL Netwotrk, speaking to Goodell at a joint NFL-U.S. Army press event at West Point, twice asked Goodell whether he would rule out using the locked-out officials in Week One. And, twice, Goodell refused to rule it out.

Goodell said that negotiation is needed, and NFLRA spokesman Mike Arnold separately told Breer that the gap remains small, at $6,000 per team per game. (As we explained earlier today, that still translates to a difference of $22.7 million over the seven-year term of the proposed deal.)

The bottom line is that things can still get worked out, quickly. Despite the public wagon-circling, the NFL knows that the replacement officials can’t cut the mustard. (Hell, many of them can’t even spray it in the general direction of the hot dog.) And hopefully the locked-out officials realize that have it pretty good, with a hobby that pays them on average $150,000 per year.

So let’s get it done, folks. For the good of the game that all of you supposedly love.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -week-one/

_________________
Quote:
Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....


August 31st, 2012, 9:44 am
Profile
Modmin Dude
User avatar

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 am
Posts: 12139
Post Re: NFL faces another labor battle, with officials
PFT wrote:
Female official scheduled to make regular-season debut in Detroit
Posted by Mike Florio on August 30, 2012, 6:33 PM EDT

Though the gender barrier may never be broken for NFL players, a woman will be on the field for the first time in a regular-season game on September 9.

Shannon Eastin, who made history as the first woman to officiate an NFL preseason game when the Chargers hosted the Packers, will set a more significant precedent by becoming the first female to work an NFL game that counts.

Mike Jurecki of Xtra Sports 910 in Phoenix reports that Eastin has been assigned to work the Rams-Lions game in Detroit.

The importance of the occasion is undermined by the fact that Eastin has earned the distinction not by successfully navigating the lower levels of the sport and earning a spot in the NFL but by accepting an assignment to keep the seat of a locked-out official warm.

We think that the best persons for the officiating job should get the jobs. But if Eastin were among the best of the best officials and if we assume the NFL hires the best of the best, she’d be locked out right now.

But there’s the catch: The locked-out officials may not be locked out by Week One. We’ll have more details in a separate post.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... n-detroit/

_________________
Quote:
Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....


August 31st, 2012, 9:45 am
Profile
Post Re: NFL faces another labor battle, with officials
Screw the regular refs. The replacements look fine now that they have a few games under their belt. I can't see the other guys being any better after not having the preseason to get upt o to speed.

No comment LFBs as to how the NFL has been negotiating in bad faith?


August 31st, 2012, 10:06 am
Modmin Dude
User avatar

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 am
Posts: 12139
Post Re: NFL faces another labor battle, with officials
PFT wrote:
Jerry Jones: Regular or replacement, refs will make mistakes
Posted by Michael David Smith on August 31, 2012, 11:23 AM EDT

Preseason mistakes may be piling up, but Cowboys owner Jerry Jones doesn’t sound concerned about the NFL’s replacement officials.

Jones said on 105.3 The Fan in Dallas this morning that he doesn’t see replacements as a particular concern about winning or losing games, because he thinks that even if replacement officials do make mistakes, those mistakes will affect all teams equally. And he says that the regular officials make mistakes, too.

“As long as it’s consistent, then how it affects the games may not be as much,” Jones said. “The important people — the players, the coaches, the fans — they’ll all be there. The officials who are out there are going to make mistakes, but believe you me, the officials who would be there if we got this resolved would make mistakes.”

Jones is right, of course, that the regular officials make mistakes. But the problem comes when replacement officials make more mistakes, and mistakes that the regular officials wouldn’t make. It may take a replacement official’s mistake costing the Cowboys a game for Jones to take the lead among the owners in ending the officials’ lockout.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -mistakes/
Can't believe I'm going to say that, but I agree with JJ :shock:

That being said, there is this rumor....
PFT wrote:
Rumors fly of Friday negotiating session between NFL, officials
Posted by Mike Florio on August 31, 2012, 11:34 AM EDT

As we get closer and closer to the start of the regular season, the NFL and the NFL Referees Association could be getting closer to closing a fairly close gap.

A league source tells PFT that there’s talk of a high-level negotiating session occurring Friday between the league and the locked-out officials. We don’t have names (yet) of the folks participating on behalf of the NFL.

We also don’t have confirmation that a session is occurring.

If the rumor is true, the move is encouraging, and it’s not really a surprise given the comments made Thursday by Commissioner Roger Goodell. Per Albert Breer of NFL Network, Goodell twice refused to rule out a return by the regular officials for Week One — even though the league already had said the replacements will be used for the first slate of games that count. NFLRA negotiator Mike Arnold suggested a deal could be done quickly, given that the gap between the two sides isn’t huge, about $6,000 per team per game.

The NFL’s willingness to talk (and perhaps to move off its position) means the league realizes that a shebacle is looming. The officials’ willingness to talk (and perhaps to move off their position) means that the men in stripes realize that they have one heck of a hobby, and that they don’t want to see anyone else doing that which they love to do. Especially when the replacements leave much to be desired.

So let’s hope they get it done, if for no reason other the good of the game.

UPDATE 11:37 a.m. ET: NFL spokesman Greg Aiello has declined to comment on the topic. And all that that implies.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... officials/

_________________
Quote:
Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....


August 31st, 2012, 1:07 pm
Profile
Rookie Player of the Year
User avatar

Joined: August 24th, 2010, 9:54 pm
Posts: 2310
Post Re: NFL faces another labor battle, with officials
TheRealWags wrote:
PFT wrote:
Jerry Jones: Regular or replacement, refs will make mistakes
Posted by Michael David Smith on August 31, 2012, 11:23 AM EDT

Preseason mistakes may be piling up, but Cowboys owner Jerry Jones doesn’t sound concerned about the NFL’s replacement officials.

Jones said on 105.3 The Fan in Dallas this morning that he doesn’t see replacements as a particular concern about winning or losing games, because he thinks that even if replacement officials do make mistakes, those mistakes will affect all teams equally. And he says that the regular officials make mistakes, too.

“As long as it’s consistent, then how it affects the games may not be as much,” Jones said. “The important people — the players, the coaches, the fans — they’ll all be there. The officials who are out there are going to make mistakes, but believe you me, the officials who would be there if we got this resolved would make mistakes.”

Jones is right, of course, that the regular officials make mistakes. But the problem comes when replacement officials make more mistakes, and mistakes that the regular officials wouldn’t make. It may take a replacement official’s mistake costing the Cowboys a game for Jones to take the lead among the owners in ending the officials’ lockout.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -mistakes/
Can't believe I'm going to say that, but I agree with JJ :shock:


All mistakes are not created equal. JJ has an incentive to make people believe they are.

I agree with KVB:

Quote:
"It’s hard for guys who’ve been officiating for 10, 12, 15 years in the NFL to get it right, and there’s so much going on and so many rules changes that it’ll be difficult if there’s guys that have no experience coming in and officiating games. And with the big emphasis on player safety and the changes to player safety, as a player you want to make sure that you have capable officials that get it right."

_________________
Driver of the Jim Caldwell bandwagon. Climb aboard.


September 4th, 2012, 12:55 pm
Profile
Player of the Year - Defense

Joined: September 25th, 2007, 3:20 am
Posts: 2795
Post Re: NFL faces another labor battle, with officials
With all due respect to KVB and the rest of the players, but bringing up player safety is completely irrelevant when it comes to replacement vs. regular officials. The refs call fouls after the effect, not prior. The rules committee makes the rules that protect the players. Regardless if the officials throw a flag for those that break the rules, the replay officials at the front office are the ones that dish out the fines, many on plays where there wasn't a flag on the play.

The officials don't regulate player safety, the league does. Throwing a flag means the rule was already broken, it didn't prevent it. I realize that missed calls can change the outcome of a game, and the replacement officials could possibly cost a team a game, but the argument that players are somehow at more risk under replacement officials is ludicrous.


September 4th, 2012, 2:12 pm
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 am
Posts: 9494
Location: Dallas
Post Re: NFL faces another labor battle, with officials
njroar wrote:
With all due respect to KVB and the rest of the players, but bringing up player safety is completely irrelevant when it comes to replacement vs. regular officials. The refs call fouls after the effect, not prior. The rules committee makes the rules that protect the players. Regardless if the officials throw a flag for those that break the rules, the replay officials at the front office are the ones that dish out the fines, many on plays where there wasn't a flag on the play.

The officials don't regulate player safety, the league does. Throwing a flag means the rule was already broken, it didn't prevent it. I realize that missed calls can change the outcome of a game, and the replacement officials could possibly cost a team a game, but the argument that players are somehow at more risk under replacement officials is ludicrous.


I disagree njroar. Players will adapt to the game, if they feel like they can get away with more they will push it. Also, a couple of bad calls can really start to frustrate players who are then more likely to stray outside of the rules in their play.

The refs don't regulate player safety, but they can certainly influence how players play which leads to more/less risk.

_________________
Image
LB Tweet


September 4th, 2012, 2:16 pm
Profile WWW
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pm
Posts: 9891
Location: Where ever I'm at now
Post Re: NFL faces another labor battle, with officials
Pablo wrote:
njroar wrote:
With all due respect to KVB and the rest of the players, but bringing up player safety is completely irrelevant when it comes to replacement vs. regular officials. The refs call fouls after the effect, not prior. The rules committee makes the rules that protect the players. Regardless if the officials throw a flag for those that break the rules, the replay officials at the front office are the ones that dish out the fines, many on plays where there wasn't a flag on the play.

The officials don't regulate player safety, the league does. Throwing a flag means the rule was already broken, it didn't prevent it. I realize that missed calls can change the outcome of a game, and the replacement officials could possibly cost a team a game, but the argument that players are somehow at more risk under replacement officials is ludicrous.


I disagree njroar. Players will adapt to the game, if they feel like they can get away with more they will push it. Also, a couple of bad calls can really start to frustrate players who are then more likely to stray outside of the rules in their play.

The refs don't regulate player safety, but they can certainly influence how players play which leads to more/less risk.


The bolded statement is exactly why any player talking about player safety is ridiculous. If the players are so concerned with safety, then they should be the ones taking steps to ensure their own protection, and not expecting the league, owners or officials to make it happen.

njroar is correct in saying that the officials truly can't protect the players, but just enforce the rules after the fact. Same thing with police. They don't prevent crimes, just make arrests after the fact.

The players who complain about the use of replacment officials and how it will affect player safety are simply stating the union position. If the NFLPA cries, so do the players who are an integral part of the union. And since the impasse is between the NFL and the NFLRA, the unions will try to create a united front.

If the players are that worried, then they should risk their game checks and go on strike. The fact that they won't is testimony to the fact that they aren't really all that worried about their safety.

_________________
Driver of the 'we need a coaching change' bandwagon. Climb aboard.


September 4th, 2012, 2:23 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 147 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 10  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware.