View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently October 31st, 2014, 7:00 am



Reply to topic  [ 46 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 GAMEDAY THREAD: Lions vs. Bills (preseason game 4) 
Author Message
National Champion

Joined: August 13th, 2006, 11:04 pm
Posts: 875
Location: Washington, DC
Post Re: GAMEDAY THREAD: Lions vs. Bills (preseason game 4)
Pablo wrote:
Hystrix wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
I'll say this....I'd take Stanton over Moore as our third stringer any day of the week. Stanton has a better arm, is a better runner, and has shown the ability to win.


Not that I want to get in a discussion about Drew Stanton....but if he was any good at all, he'd have gotten a shot here before Stafford arrived. Moore isn't the greatest, but the jury is still out on him. Stanton is just a lousy QB. We already know this.


Are we talking about a starter or 3rd string QB? Stanton won a few games for us at the end of 2010 that helped build our momentum going into last year - thank you Drew. He brought a nice scrambling ability and as M2K commented, he showed he could lead a team to victory. He isn't a starting level QB in the NFL, but a capable backup.

I'm not a fan of Moore on the 53-man roster from what I saw as I'd rather see another position have an extra spot who can contribute. I'd pick someone up from the scrap heap and put them behind center before I'd give Moore the keys for a game. The Lions FO must be seeing something I'm not.



I think both of you are romanticizing Stanton's time here. He won a couple games because our Defense played well. Even when he started he was barley good enough for 1 TD a game. He just sucked. Remember when e lost games for us? Remember the Jets game?

I don't know. Did Moore wrong you guys in another life? Run over your dog? The guy needs some work, but I don't think he's that bad. Time will tell. I'm not saying he's great, but, Wow. Stanton? Really?


September 4th, 2012, 1:23 pm
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pm
Posts: 9908
Location: Where ever I'm at now
Post Re: GAMEDAY THREAD: Lions vs. Bills (preseason game 4)
Hystrix wrote:
I think both of you are romanticizing Stanton's time here. He won a couple games because our Defense played well. Even when he started he was barley good enough for 1 TD a game. He just sucked. Remember when e lost games for us? Remember the Jets game?

I don't know. Did Moore wrong you guys in another life? Run over your dog? The guy needs some work, but I don't think he's that bad. Time will tell. I'm not saying he's great, but, Wow. Stanton? Really?


I'm not romanticizing a thing. Stanton has a stronger arm, far more experience, and has scrambling ability. Moore has ....... ?? I don't see how he showed anything in pre-season that proves he's more capable than Stanton. Will his arm get stronger? No. Will he somehow add speed or scrambling ability? No. All he can add is what Stanton already has...experience. The only advantage to Moore is his pricetag. I will give you and the Lions that much, he is far cheaper than Stanton. But for what they are getting, I'd rather see the Lions just waive Moore, risk another team picking him up off the wire, and if not, assign him to the practice squad. If they are that worried about Stafford and Hill getting hurt in the same game, then find someone who CAN come in cold and do something.

Whether or not the Lions won because of their defense when Stanton was in or not, the fact is he won games. And the Jets game, although Stanton made the play, was not his fault. Schwartz is SOLELY to blame for that game being lost, and he admitted that. His poor clock management, and his choice to call such a stupid play is what cost the Lions. And let's not mention some of the stupid penalties (Julian Peterson) that helped cost us that game. Can't blame Stanton for that.

_________________
Driver of the 'we need a coaching change' bandwagon. Climb aboard.


September 4th, 2012, 2:36 pm
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 am
Posts: 9499
Location: Dallas
Post Re: GAMEDAY THREAD: Lions vs. Bills (preseason game 4)
m2karateman wrote:
And let's not mention some of the stupid penalties (Julian Peterson) that helped cost us that game. Can't blame Stanton for that.


Sure you can, they are both Spartans. While you are at it, feel free to blame me as well! :lol:

_________________
Image
LB Tweet


September 4th, 2012, 2:44 pm
Profile WWW
Post Re: GAMEDAY THREAD: Lions vs. Bills (preseason game 4)
m2karateman wrote:
Hystrix wrote:
I think both of you are romanticizing Stanton's time here. He won a couple games because our Defense played well. Even when he started he was barley good enough for 1 TD a game. He just sucked. Remember when e lost games for us? Remember the Jets game?

I don't know. Did Moore wrong you guys in another life? Run over your dog? The guy needs some work, but I don't think he's that bad. Time will tell. I'm not saying he's great, but, Wow. Stanton? Really?


I'm not romanticizing a thing. Stanton has a stronger arm, far more experience, and has scrambling ability. Moore has ....... ?? I don't see how he showed anything in pre-season that proves he's more capable than Stanton. Will his arm get stronger? No. Will he somehow add speed or scrambling ability? No. All he can add is what Stanton already has...experience. The only advantage to Moore is his pricetag. I will give you and the Lions that much, he is far cheaper than Stanton. But for what they are getting, I'd rather see the Lions just waive Moore, risk another team picking him up off the wire, and if not, assign him to the practice squad. If they are that worried about Stafford and Hill getting hurt in the same game, then find someone who CAN come in cold and do something.

Whether or not the Lions won because of their defense when Stanton was in or not, the fact is he won games. And the Jets game, although Stanton made the play, was not his fault. Schwartz is SOLELY to blame for that game being lost, and he admitted that. His poor clock management, and his choice to call such a stupid play is what cost the Lions. And let's not mention some of the stupid penalties (Julian Peterson) that helped cost us that game. Can't blame Stanton for that.


m2, I agree with you that Stanton would be the better 3rd string Qb right now, but I don't think Stanton will ever be a quality 2nd string Qb, ever.


September 4th, 2012, 5:03 pm
3rd Round Selection

Joined: October 19th, 2005, 1:24 pm
Posts: 1170
Location: Nottingham, England
Post Re: GAMEDAY THREAD: Lions vs. Bills (preseason game 4)
Pablo wrote:
I'm not a fan of Moore on the 53-man roster from what I saw as I'd rather see another position have an extra spot who can contribute. I'd pick someone up from the scrap heap and put them behind center before I'd give Moore the keys for a game. The Lions FO must be seeing something I'm not.

Agree here. All I saw was passes getting batted down, or floating on him. I thought he looked pretty awful.

If we end up with him behind centre thanks to injury, the season's pretty much over - so why give him a roster spot for this year? There are plenty of players I'd have preferred to have seen over him for this season.

For the future, he didn't show a single thing that made me think he could become Hill's replacement as the backup QB. So, again, why use the roster spot?

He played in pre-season like the coaching staff said to him "please do what you can to ensure you won't clear waivers and we can stash you on the practice squad"!


September 5th, 2012, 5:32 am
Profile
National Champion

Joined: August 13th, 2006, 11:04 pm
Posts: 875
Location: Washington, DC
Post Re: GAMEDAY THREAD: Lions vs. Bills (preseason game 4)
m2karateman wrote:
Hystrix wrote:
I think both of you are romanticizing Stanton's time here. He won a couple games because our Defense played well. Even when he started he was barley good enough for 1 TD a game. He just sucked. Remember when e lost games for us? Remember the Jets game?

I don't know. Did Moore wrong you guys in another life? Run over your dog? The guy needs some work, but I don't think he's that bad. Time will tell. I'm not saying he's great, but, Wow. Stanton? Really?


I'm not romanticizing a thing. Stanton has a stronger arm, far more experience, and has scrambling ability. Moore has ....... ?? I don't see how he showed anything in pre-season that proves he's more capable than Stanton. Will his arm get stronger? No. Will he somehow add speed or scrambling ability? No. All he can add is what Stanton already has...experience. The only advantage to Moore is his pricetag. I will give you and the Lions that much, he is far cheaper than Stanton. But for what they are getting, I'd rather see the Lions just waive Moore, risk another team picking him up off the wire, and if not, assign him to the practice squad. If they are that worried about Stafford and Hill getting hurt in the same game, then find someone who CAN come in cold and do something.

Whether or not the Lions won because of their defense when Stanton was in or not, the fact is he won games. And the Jets game, although Stanton made the play, was not his fault. Schwartz is SOLELY to blame for that game being lost, and he admitted that. His poor clock management, and his choice to call such a stupid play is what cost the Lions. And let's not mention some of the stupid penalties (Julian Peterson) that helped cost us that game. Can't blame Stanton for that.


But you can thank Stanton for those wins? Next you'll be patting Trent Dilfer on the back for his savy Super Bowl win. Yeah, Trent has a SB ring, but everyone know they were there because of defense alone.

In that 7-3 win over the Packers in 2010, Stanton passed to the backup TE Will Heller, who made the TD by himself. It wasn't a great strong arm throw by Stanton. Other than that, what did he do? He benifited from good play by teammates. You can't convince me that any other 3rd stringer couldn't do that.

Oh, and there are few 3rd string QBs in this leauge who have gotten the starting opportunities he has. What dose he have to show? 5 passing TDs and 9 INTs, and a Joey Harrington-esque completion percentage of 55%. Yeah, he was great.

I don't know what Kellen Moore will do, and I hope he never sees the field, but don't talk to me about that wasted 2nd Round pick, Stanton. Stanton wasted a roster spot for 4 years! And I don't care if he was a Sparty, he was useless no matter what college he played for.


September 5th, 2012, 9:01 am
Profile
3rd Round Selection

Joined: October 19th, 2005, 1:24 pm
Posts: 1170
Location: Nottingham, England
Post Re: GAMEDAY THREAD: Lions vs. Bills (preseason game 4)
Hystrix wrote:
But you can thank Stanton for those wins? Next you'll be patting Trent Dilfer on the back for his savy Super Bowl win. [...] In that 7-3 win over the Packers in 2010, Stanton passed to the backup TE Will Heller, who made the TD by himself. It wasn't a great strong arm throw by Stanton. Other than that, what did he do? He benifited from good play by teammates. You can't convince me that any other 3rd stringer couldn't do that.

You can thank him for not losing the games for us. That pass to Will Heller wasn't anything special, but at least it was a pass to Will Heller - not a pass batted at the line or one that floated into the arms of a DB.

Hystrix wrote:
I don't know what Kellen Moore will do, and I hope he never sees the field, but don't talk to me about that wasted 2nd Round pick, Stanton. Stanton wasted a roster spot for 4 years!

He was definitely a waste of a draft pick. For a 2nd rounder, you should get better than a 3rd string QB.

But he wasn't a waste of a roster spot. He was better than you would expect out of the average NFL 3rd string QB, IMO.


September 5th, 2012, 9:12 am
Profile
Rookie Player of the Year
User avatar

Joined: August 24th, 2010, 9:54 pm
Posts: 2324
Post Re: GAMEDAY THREAD: Lions vs. Bills (preseason game 4)
If you have the slot to spare, there's no sense in having a veteran QB there. The 3rd QB should be strictly developmental/possible future back-up.

_________________
Driver of the Jim Caldwell bandwagon. Climb aboard.


September 5th, 2012, 9:30 am
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pm
Posts: 9908
Location: Where ever I'm at now
Post Re: GAMEDAY THREAD: Lions vs. Bills (preseason game 4)
thelomasbrowns wrote:
If you have the slot to spare, there's no sense in having a veteran QB there. The 3rd QB should be strictly developmental/possible future back-up.


I agree. However, with Kellen Moore there is nothing to develop. He doesn't have an NFL arm, period. His medium to long passes float. And with his short stature and lack of scrambling ability it means there is just no future for him as even a good backup.

IF (and this is what I've said all along) we are going to carry a third QB (I think we should have waived Moore and put him on the PS), then at least get someone who either A) is a true developmental prospect, with an NFL quality arm who just needs exposure to the offense and work on his accuracy/touch/reads, or B) get an experienced QB who can come in cold from day one and knows what he's doing.

Kellen Moore seems like a good kid, and I don't wish him any ill will. I just think he's a waste of a roster spot right now. My whole contention is that if the Lions are going to carry a 3rd QB, I'd rather have an experienced QB in the system like Stanton than someone like Moore, who peaked in college.

_________________
Driver of the 'we need a coaching change' bandwagon. Climb aboard.


September 5th, 2012, 10:58 am
Profile
3rd Round Selection

Joined: October 19th, 2005, 1:24 pm
Posts: 1170
Location: Nottingham, England
Post Re: GAMEDAY THREAD: Lions vs. Bills (preseason game 4)
Agree M2k. In order of preference for QB3:

1. true developmental prospect

2. don't have one, use the roster spot on someone else who can bring value

3. vet who knows the system and if forced to play wouldn't destroy your chances of winning games

4. rookie with no developmental upside

Stanton is 3, Moore is 4 IMO.

I'd rather not use the roster spot over the both of them, though.


September 5th, 2012, 11:05 am
Profile
ST Coordinator – Danny Crossman
User avatar

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 am
Posts: 3839
Location: Davison Mi
Post Re: GAMEDAY THREAD: Lions vs. Bills (preseason game 4)
m2karateman wrote:
thelomasbrowns wrote:
If you have the slot to spare, there's no sense in having a veteran QB there. The 3rd QB should be strictly developmental/possible future back-up.


I agree. However, with Kellen Moore there is nothing to develop. He doesn't have an NFL arm, period. His medium to long passes float. And with his short stature and lack of scrambling ability it means there is just no future for him as even a good backup.

IF (and this is what I've said all along) we are going to carry a third QB (I think we should have waived Moore and put him on the PS), then at least get someone who either A) is a true developmental prospect, with an NFL quality arm who just needs exposure to the offense and work on his accuracy/touch/reads, or B) get an experienced QB who can come in cold from day one and knows what he's doing.

Kellen Moore seems like a good kid, and I don't wish him any ill will. I just think he's a waste of a roster spot right now. My whole contention is that if the Lions are going to carry a 3rd QB, I'd rather have an experienced QB in the system like Stanton than someone like Moore, who peaked in college.



I dont know why we are keeping 3 QB's this year myself. seems like we coulda kept everett brown instead IMO.

To address youe B) scenario, Im only a fan of paying a vetran to be a 3rd after the fist stringer goes down. if Stafford gets hurt im all for it, but as long as both he and Hill are healthy I'd prefer to keep a minimum wage guy at 3rd string if we MUST keep one.

_________________
2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion


September 5th, 2012, 11:18 am
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pm
Posts: 9908
Location: Where ever I'm at now
Post Re: GAMEDAY THREAD: Lions vs. Bills (preseason game 4)
Hystrix wrote:
But you can thank Stanton for those wins? Next you'll be patting Trent Dilfer on the back for his savy Super Bowl win. Yeah, Trent has a SB ring, but everyone know they were there because of defense alone.


I see. So we can't credit Stanton for any wins he got, but we can credit him for a loss over one play. Nice.

Hystrix wrote:
In that 7-3 win over the Packers in 2010, Stanton passed to the backup TE Will Heller, who made the TD by himself. It wasn't a great strong arm throw by Stanton. Other than that, what did he do? He benifited from good play by teammates. You can't convince me that any other 3rd stringer couldn't do that.


The point is, he made the play. Are you telling me Kellen Moore would have done better?

Hystrix wrote:
Oh, and there are few 3rd string QBs in this leauge who have gotten the starting opportunities he has. What dose he have to show? 5 passing TDs and 9 INTs, and a Joey Harrington-esque completion percentage of 55%. Yeah, he was great.


Tell me where I said Stanton was great. Tell me where I said he was a starter. Tell me where I said he was even GOOD!

What I said was, if the Lions were going to carry a third QB on their roster I would take Stanton over Kellen Moore. Would I take Stanton over ANY QB in the league? No. Would I take Stanton over any QB available right now? No. But compared to Kellen Moore, I think Stanton would give the Lions a better chance at winning a game if our 3rd string QB was forced to play.

Hystrix wrote:
I don't know what Kellen Moore will do, and I hope he never sees the field, but don't talk to me about that wasted 2nd Round pick, Stanton. Stanton wasted a roster spot for 4 years! And I don't care if he was a Sparty, he was useless no matter what college he played for.
[/quote]

Where Stanton was selected didn't matter. He can't be blamed for that. Whether he was a waste of a roster spot doesn't matter. You can say a number of other players wasted a roster spot for our team as well. It comes down to a simple side by side comparison of Stanton vs. Moore. In my opinion I'd take Stanton over Moore as our 3rd QB. I'd much prefer we didn't have either on the roster, and used that spot for a better player. I'd have preferred we kept Justin Miller on the roster.

_________________
Driver of the 'we need a coaching change' bandwagon. Climb aboard.


September 5th, 2012, 11:27 am
Profile
National Champion

Joined: August 13th, 2006, 11:04 pm
Posts: 875
Location: Washington, DC
Post Re: GAMEDAY THREAD: Lions vs. Bills (preseason game 4)
m2karateman wrote:

I see. So we can't credit Stanton for any wins he got, but we can credit him for a loss over one play. Nice.


So you'll credit him for a win, but not when he screws up and we lose? Hmm..ok.

m2karateman wrote:
The point is, he made the play. Are you telling me Kellen Moore would have done better?


No the point is Will Heller made the play. And Yes, I think Moore could do a check down pass as wall as any other QB.

m2karateman wrote:
Tell me where I said Stanton was great. Tell me where I said he was a starter. Tell me where I said he was even GOOD!


Don't know, but implying that he ever led us to victories is an overstament. He manage the game in a below average way.

m2karateman wrote:
What I said was, if the Lions were going to carry a third QB on their roster I would take Stanton over Kellen Moore. Would I take Stanton over ANY QB in the league? No. Would I take Stanton over any QB available right now? No. But compared to Kellen Moore, I think Stanton would give the Lions a better chance at winning a game if our 3rd string QB was forced to play.


Based of of what? Kellen Moore's first pre-season games as an NFL Quarterback? Ok. I like to give guys more of chance than that. Stanton sure had his share of chances.

m2karateman wrote:
Where Stanton was selected didn't matter. He can't be blamed for that. Whether he was a waste of a roster spot doesn't matter. You can say a number of other players wasted a roster spot for our team as well.


So. He was still a wasted pick. I can blame Millen. Either way, I hated the pick, and he proved how much of a waste it was. Stantons performance is his fault.

m2karateman wrote:
It comes down to a simple side by side comparison of Stanton vs. Moore. In my opinion I'd take Stanton over Moore as our 3rd QB. I'd much prefer we didn't have either on the roster, and used that spot for a better player. I'd have preferred we kept Justin Miller on the roster.


But the coaches disagree. I also don't see why a back up kick-returner is more valuble than a backup QB. Again, I hope he dosn't see the field, but I don't agree with not carring a third QB. Maybe it's just me (and the LIons coaching staff).


September 5th, 2012, 1:26 pm
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pm
Posts: 9908
Location: Where ever I'm at now
Post Re: GAMEDAY THREAD: Lions vs. Bills (preseason game 4)
Hystrix, Stanton left not because the coaching staff or front office told him to. He left to pursue a better chance to advance on another teams depth chart. He had no chance of earning the backup spot here. He left to be paid more and have a chance at more playing time. If he was so bad, the Lions would not have kept him around. Remember, this same coaching staff offered him a one year deal to stay for the 2011 season. They didn't have to.

In the NFL, quarterbacks are remembered for winning, whether you agree or not. Whether they are game managers who just do enough to not get in trouble, or whether they put the team on their back and carry them to victory, it's how a quarterback is often judged in the NFL.

In 2010 (the last season where he actually got to play in a game) he was 2-1 as a starter. You may not be impressed with his performaces, but in the end it is about winning in the NFL. With him under center, the team won.

So, will I credit Stanton for a win? Yes, when he plays the whole time and the team wins, you're damn right I will....and so should you. If you are willing to give Stafford credit for wins in which he didn't perform all that stellar, why not do the same for the 3rd string QB pressed into starting duty? If anything, you should give him more credit. Whether the Lions won 7-3 or 37-3, it doesn't make a difference....they won. And as for the Jets game, that's been explained. You don't blame an entire loss on one play. Teams play for 60 minutes, not 60 seconds. The Lions played good for about 40 minutes. Stanton played for about 6 seconds of that last 20 minutes. One play....a play where the coach SHOULD have made a MUCH smarter call. But by all means, let's hang that loss ENTIRELY on his back for one play.

And I am basing my assessment of Kellen Moore on his performances in pre-season against rookies and backups. I am basing my assessment of Kellen Moore on his arm strength, lack of stature and inability to effectively escape a pass rush. I am judging him as I would any other QB for the Lions.

The coaching staff may have elected to keep him on the roster, but are you happy with that? I'm not thrilled. It's a waste.

So why keep Justin Miller over Moore? Three things.....first off Miller was our best kick returned this pre-season, so I wouldn't use him as the backup. Were it my decision, he'd be the kick returner and Logan would be the punt returner. Second reason, Logan stunk returning kicks last year, and got hurt this pre-season. Let him return punts until he proves he's better at returning kicks than Miller. And third, Miller is a cornerback. Teams only put one QB on the field at a time, but can have as many as five corners on the field in certain situations. While Miller isn't a good corner, I'd trust him over Jonte Green right now. And with injuries to Chris Houston and Bill Bentley, plus Delmas, I'd consider our secondary a bit thin and thus keeping Miller makes much more sense at this juncture than an undersized, weak armed, clip board holding rookie QB who is doing nothing but taking up space on the teams bus, plane, and roster.

_________________
Driver of the 'we need a coaching change' bandwagon. Climb aboard.


September 5th, 2012, 2:08 pm
Profile
ST Coordinator – Danny Crossman
User avatar

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 am
Posts: 3839
Location: Davison Mi
Post Re: GAMEDAY THREAD: Lions vs. Bills (preseason game 4)
if it matters much Im with Mike.....Moore is absolute garbage and I hope and pray the guy never sees the field.... [-o<

_________________
2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion


September 5th, 2012, 2:27 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 46 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: munch107 and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware.