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 Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon? 
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
Shotty wrote:
True. We were giving the Saints a battle before the refs decided it was too much. Should've been 21-7 after that fumble return that would've been a easy 7 points. To be within 3 points of arguably the best offense in NFL history going into the 4th with a secondary full of mediocre players and a bunch of guys playing injured, all on the road, showed that this is a team that can win playoff games. If we make it to the playoffs, which I think we will without a doubt, we will probably win a playoff game. Hopefully it isn't against the Saints again, but either way I think this team will at the very least win 1.


We lost that game, but it felt much better than many of our previous playoff losses where the team was outright embarrassed and looked like it had no business being on the same field as the other team--most of our first round losses in the 1990s.


September 4th, 2012, 11:12 pm
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
Pablo wrote:
Yes they can. If you have a QB in this league you have a shot at the championship. The Lions have a plan in place, although a number of fans still want to take a "plug a hole" approach - and most championship teams are built around great players and a great plan.

Completely agree.

The off season we had made me less excited about the possibility for the coming season, but made me more excited that the Lions can be a contender over a longer stretch rather than a flash in the pan team.

I like our current philosophy. I think the front office and coaches are doing a good job. Not a perfect job, nobody can manage that, but I think they're going about this the right way overall.


September 5th, 2012, 5:14 am
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
allenslions wrote:
i work in that scouting department he said sucks so yeah it was personal.


Well, I hear you. Remember this - You know how you have to take some people with a grain of salt? Well, with Wjb, you have to use the whole shaker. Don't take it personally. He's in the minority.


September 5th, 2012, 8:37 am
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
allenslions wrote:
i work in that scouting department he said sucks so yeah it was personal.


I understand. But for the sake of conversation, would it not be wiser to explain how he is worong about his coment?

Telling a guy who passed the bar that he'd make a good janitor is demeaning to you as well, and makes any counterpoint you may have irrelevant. rise above and dont belittle yourself.


/end soapbox preaching

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September 5th, 2012, 9:15 am
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
Hystrix wrote:
allenslions wrote:
i work in that scouting department he said sucks so yeah it was personal.


Well, I hear you. Remember this - You know how you have to take some people with a grain of salt? Well, with Wjb, you have to use the whole shaker. Don't take it personally. He's in the minority.


I mean come on, the guy has said CJ has character issues when it suits his argument. ](*,) :-k [-(

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September 5th, 2012, 9:29 am
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
i have tried the logical argument with him many times with no luck.and as for the janitor thing well in a court of law thats about what i would be qualified to do.


September 5th, 2012, 9:49 am
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
I'll give my opinion on the Mayhew thing. My opinion is that he should have gotten the GM of the year award by now. While the Lions drafts haven't been perfect, they've been pretty damn good when compared to those done by other teams....even those teams who many feel are much better at drafting talent. No team hits on every single pick....NONE! To expect that Mayhew and Schwartz will somehow draft starters in late rounds every year is ridiculous at best.

In 2009 Mayhew drafted Stafford when many were calling for Aaron Curry or Jason Smith to be our pick. Advantage: Mayhew
He then drafted Brandon Pettigrew when many were calling for Michael Oher or Alex Mack. Alex Mack is an excellent player, and Oher is doing pretty well too. But when you draft a young QB, you get him talent at skill positions. We had nothing for a tight end. We had just drafted Cherilus the year before, and already had a serviceable center in Raiola. Advantage: Mayhew (slightly)

In that same draft we got three defensive players who have had a positive impact on the defense: Delmas, Levy and Hill. All three are starting quality. The biggest mistake made was their drafting of Derrick Williams in round three as a returner and backup receiver. Mike Wallace was taken two picks later. Ladarius Webb was also selected a few picks later, and could have helped in the secondary. Still, this was an excellent draft that netted us five solid players.

In 2010 the Lions were fortunate that the Rams picked ahead of them and desperately needed a QB, which allowed Suh to fall into their hands. Still, many draft pundits felt like Gerald McCoy was his equal and the Lions resisted the temptation to trade down despite offers. Advantage: Mayhew
With the second pick, the Lions made a mistake. They traded up, though they didn't give up much, and picked Jahvid Best. Let's face facts, it should have never been done. The risk was known, but ignored. I agree we needed a running back, but not that desperately. Advantage: critics

Taking Amari Spievey in the third round seemed reasonable, but it certainly hasn't worked out that way. This has turned out to be pretty much a wasted pick. Advantage: critics

However, Mayhew picked up the slack with his next two picks, getting Jason Fox and Willie Young in the fourth and seventh rounds respectively. Fox has struggled to stay healthy, but now seems like he is capable of playing at a high level if he can stay on the field. Young will be a starter here when KVB either retires or is given his walking papers. Advantage: Mayhew

In 2011 we took Fairley because he was considered a top five pick, and he fell into our laps. You don't hold that against a GM. We still don't know what we have with Fairley, so I'll consider this pick a push. Many fans wanted either Jimmy Smith or Da'Quan Bowers. Smith would have been good. Bowers...not so much.

The Titus Young pick is turning out to be brilliant. There was no way of knowing LeShoure would blow out an Achilles, but there was indication of his love of MJ. Thumbs up on the Young pick, but the LeShoure pick is a thumbs down for now. Doug Hogue is still developing, but hasn't been that impressive in camp this year. For a fifth round pick, I'll give him another year. Culbreath was a seventh rounder that never gave himself a chance. Mixed reviews.

I always criticize the draft and the picks the Lions make. But I'll give credit where it is due. Mayhew and Schwartz have done well. Teams rarely get that many starters in three drafts.

Now let's take a look at trades:

Roy Williams...netted us Brandon Pettigrew. Mayhew wins, hands down
Cory Redding for Julian Peterson. Push.
Traded down in 2009 with Jets, and got three picks that netted us Levy, Hill and Lydon Murtha. That's a win.
Used a fifth round pick to get Corey Williams. Win.
Used a fifth round pick to get Rob Sims. Win.
Used a seventh round pick to get Shaun Hill. Win.
Used sixth round and seventh round picks to get Chris Houston. Win.
Traded Dan Gronkowski for Alfonso Smith. Win.
Traded Ernie Sims for Tony Scheffler. Win.
Traded sixth rounder for Lawrence Jackson. Win.
Traded late round conditional pick for Kevin Barnes. Looking good.

So, how EXACTLY has the drafting or deal making by Mayhew been poor? By my accounts he's traded nothing but late round picks, and in doing so has netted us a capable backup QB, a starting DT, OG and CB, a really good TE, our starting TE for a washed up WR, a good DE, another good DB (Barnes), and a guy who got us some picks when he got here in exchange for a TE who wasn't going to make the club (Smith). And this is bad because....??

The only negative against Mayhew has been his inability to get us a capable running back. I DEFY you to find another team that has done as well via drafts and trades over the same time period. It would be easy to say that Mayhew could do nothing but make the team better because of how bad the roster was when he took over. But some GMs have proven that they can do worse, or at least don't do nearly as well.

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September 5th, 2012, 9:55 am
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
m2k- I know we don't agree on the Stanton thing, but the above is an excellent post. Totally agree.


September 5th, 2012, 1:31 pm
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
Hystrix wrote:
m2k- I know we don't agree on the Stanton thing, but the above is an excellent post. Totally agree.


Thanks Hystrix. Not agreeing on one topic doesn't mean I don't respect your opinions or insight.

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September 5th, 2012, 2:17 pm
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
m2karateman wrote:
I'll give my opinion on the Mayhew thing. My opinion is that he should have gotten the GM of the year award by now. While the Lions drafts haven't been perfect, they've been pretty damn good when compared to those done by other teams....even those teams who many feel are much better at drafting talent. No team hits on every single pick....NONE! To expect that Mayhew and Schwartz will somehow draft starters in late rounds every year is ridiculous at best.

In 2009 Mayhew drafted Stafford when many were calling for Aaron Curry or Jason Smith to be our pick. Advantage: Mayhew
He then drafted Brandon Pettigrew when many were calling for Michael Oher or Alex Mack. Alex Mack is an excellent player, and Oher is doing pretty well too. But when you draft a young QB, you get him talent at skill positions. We had nothing for a tight end. We had just drafted Cherilus the year before, and already had a serviceable center in Raiola. Advantage: Mayhew (slightly)

In that same draft we got three defensive players who have had a positive impact on the defense: Delmas, Levy and Hill. All three are starting quality. The biggest mistake made was their drafting of Derrick Williams in round three as a returner and backup receiver. Mike Wallace was taken two picks later. Ladarius Webb was also selected a few picks later, and could have helped in the secondary. Still, this was an excellent draft that netted us five solid players.

In 2010 the Lions were fortunate that the Rams picked ahead of them and desperately needed a QB, which allowed Suh to fall into their hands. Still, many draft pundits felt like Gerald McCoy was his equal and the Lions resisted the temptation to trade down despite offers. Advantage: Mayhew
With the second pick, the Lions made a mistake. They traded up, though they didn't give up much, and picked Jahvid Best. Let's face facts, it should have never been done. The risk was known, but ignored. I agree we needed a running back, but not that desperately. Advantage: critics

Taking Amari Spievey in the third round seemed reasonable, but it certainly hasn't worked out that way. This has turned out to be pretty much a wasted pick. Advantage: critics

However, Mayhew picked up the slack with his next two picks, getting Jason Fox and Willie Young in the fourth and seventh rounds respectively. Fox has struggled to stay healthy, but now seems like he is capable of playing at a high level if he can stay on the field. Young will be a starter here when KVB either retires or is given his walking papers. Advantage: Mayhew

In 2011 we took Fairley because he was considered a top five pick, and he fell into our laps. You don't hold that against a GM. We still don't know what we have with Fairley, so I'll consider this pick a push. Many fans wanted either Jimmy Smith or Da'Quan Bowers. Smith would have been good. Bowers...not so much.

The Titus Young pick is turning out to be brilliant. There was no way of knowing LeShoure would blow out an Achilles, but there was indication of his love of MJ. Thumbs up on the Young pick, but the LeShoure pick is a thumbs down for now. Doug Hogue is still developing, but hasn't been that impressive in camp this year. For a fifth round pick, I'll give him another year. Culbreath was a seventh rounder that never gave himself a chance. Mixed reviews.

I always criticize the draft and the picks the Lions make. But I'll give credit where it is due. Mayhew and Schwartz have done well. Teams rarely get that many starters in three drafts.

Now let's take a look at trades:

Roy Williams...netted us Brandon Pettigrew. Mayhew wins, hands down
Cory Redding for Julian Peterson. Push.
Traded down in 2009 with Jets, and got three picks that netted us Levy, Hill and Lydon Murtha. That's a win.
Used a fifth round pick to get Corey Williams. Win.
Used a fifth round pick to get Rob Sims. Win.
Used a seventh round pick to get Shaun Hill. Win.
Used sixth round and seventh round picks to get Chris Houston. Win.
Traded Dan Gronkowski for Alfonso Smith. Win.
Traded Ernie Sims for Tony Scheffler. Win.
Traded sixth rounder for Lawrence Jackson. Win.
Traded late round conditional pick for Kevin Barnes. Looking good.

So, how EXACTLY has the drafting or deal making by Mayhew been poor? By my accounts he's traded nothing but late round picks, and in doing so has netted us a capable backup QB, a starting DT, OG and CB, a really good TE, our starting TE for a washed up WR, a good DE, another good DB (Barnes), and a guy who got us some picks when he got here in exchange for a TE who wasn't going to make the club (Smith). And this is bad because....??

The only negative against Mayhew has been his inability to get us a capable running back. I DEFY you to find another team that has done as well via drafts and trades over the same time period. It would be easy to say that Mayhew could do nothing but make the team better because of how bad the roster was when he took over. But some GMs have proven that they can do worse, or at least don't do nearly as well.


Thank you for breaking it all down. I really appreciate it since I've been watching football just since the 2010 season so I didn't know much about his trades that offseason and the one before. Mayhew will get some respect once the Lions get some.

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September 5th, 2012, 3:01 pm
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
aw! Shotty is a pup! I want to pat him on the head and tell him lies about the lions never having a losing season! does that make me bad? :cheers:

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September 5th, 2012, 3:11 pm
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
regularjoe12 wrote:
aw! Shotty is a pup! I want to pat him on the head and tell him lies about the lions never having a losing season! does that make me bad? :cheers:


Nah, I watched them here and there, but didn't care for football until right before the 2010 season. I always followed the Lions, but rarely watched the games. Once I found out we picked up Jahvid Best, I looked up his college highlights and started bragging to everyone about how he'd be the real deal (of course not knowing much at all about what a good player is made of or what football was about) and from there on I've watched every game and bled Honolulu blue.

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September 5th, 2012, 3:30 pm
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
Shotty wrote:
regularjoe12 wrote:
aw! Shotty is a pup! I want to pat him on the head and tell him lies about the lions never having a losing season! does that make me bad? :cheers:


Nah, I watched them here and there, but didn't care for football until right before the 2010 season. I always followed the Lions, but rarely watched the games. Once I found out we picked up Jahvid Best, I looked up his college highlights and started bragging to everyone about how he'd be the real deal (of course not knowing much at all about what a good player is made of or what football was about) and from there on I've watched every game and bled Honolulu blue.



Hell you missed out on the Millen Era...that alone is enough to make me jelous! lol

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September 5th, 2012, 4:08 pm
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
2 things..

First off, M2karateman......That....was........AWESOME! Very well written and you make a great argument that I think most here including myself would agree on 100%.

Second thing. Shotty. Get ready for football to take over your life. Literally. I was kind of in the same boat as you, followed the Lions but never go real into it. But during the 2006 offseason I heard some funny rumor of Ray Lewis (everyone knows Ray Lewis!) coming to the Lions. From that day on it has taken over my life. Heck, I even talked my fiance into letting us have honolulu blue and silver as our wedding colors and will be walking in to the Fox Sports NFL Sunday theme song. I know, im wierd.
The bad part is it just might mix your priorities up, cuz it has mine. Not proud of it. I actually should be cutting my grass right now, but instead am typing this dang paragraph. But in the end, thats where Lionbacker comes into play, cuz everyone here you can relate to.

But back on topic, every time Ive questioned a Mayhew move, later on I can usually look back and say "..Oh.....ok. I get why he did that".

I give Mayhew an A-. The "-" coming from the Derrick Williams pick.

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September 5th, 2012, 4:16 pm
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
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Heck, I even talked my fiance into letting us have honolulu blue and silver as our wedding colors and will be walking in to the Fox Sports NFL Sunday theme song. I know, im wierd.



SO...FREAKING....JEALOUS!!!!!!!!! :idea: :idea: :idea:

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September 5th, 2012, 4:23 pm
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