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 Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon? 
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
allenslions wrote:
wjb are you friking kidding me.your opinion is a joke.we have a general manager who took a team from 0-16 to a playoff team in 3 years i dont know of any other gm to do that.as for the draft what team has drafted better in the last 4 years.the fact is you have a no idea how things are done in the real world so why dont you stick to being a madden gm.and as for saying we suck in the scouting department why dont you bring all your football knowledge down here to allen park and interview for a position i,m sure we could use another guy to clean up the locker rooms . :finger:


Jim Harbaugh took the 49res from a 6-10 team that was even worse the year prior to a 13-3 playoff team, and that was just the coach, and he did it in one year! Oh yea, and they actually won their division and hosted a game... Annnndddd... They beat the team that destroyed us... Hmmmm...

Other teams have made drastic turnarounds as well. My issue is, IMO the Lions record was better than the team last year, and I think they'll regress this year. SF is built solid, IMO. They have fewer premadonnas, fewer cash cow players, and they're deeper in most respects. They don't rely so heavily on one guy on offense, and they are much MUCH more balanced.

I have my doubts as to whether YOU know how things are done in the real world. IMO you've proven nothing, and if you really do work for the Lions scouting department you are some sort of village idiot intern or something. Your "knowledge" has proven less than accurate multiple times. Hell, people on here that DON'T have "inside knowledge" seem to be more right than you on multiple occasions.

I don't want to work for the Lions scouting department, I couldn't afford the pay cut. If I do anything for the NFL I would be a player manager for a problematic, high profile client. A job like that sounds fun, and it actually PAYS well.

Buuuttt... I don't know why I even bother talking to you. You've proven to me that your comprehension skills suck, and you've never had anything relevant to add to any conversation I've engaged you in... But anyhow... I'll just continue to stay positive and provide the insight that I think you're lacking, even if you're incapable of grasping it...


Shotty wrote:
Please tell me you're kidding. Mayhew uses the BPA strategy every single year, and has gotten steals on steals on steals. Delmas, Willie Young, DeAndre Levy, and Titus Young are all or will all soon be big role players in our team, and Nick Fairley/Mikel Leshoure would've probably been on that list if they didn't get injured last season. The only bad pick he made since he took over was Derrick Williams in the third round. How did he handle the Avril situation horribly? He offered Cliff a ridiculous contract and it was turned down, so he got him on the franchise tag. What did you want him to do? Our only holes are in the secondary, the run game, and the offensive line's run blocking. The secondary very well may surprise lots of people; it ranked 9th last year before injuries. The run game can also get a big boost from Leshoure/Kevin Smith, and if Jahvid comes back after 6 weeks our backfield can do special things. Our offensive line is being rebuilt, hence Mayhew taking Riley Reiff since he's a very solid run blocker unlike any of our current offensive linemen. The Lions haven't had a GM like Mayhew in a long, long time.


Steals? Delmas? An injury prone guy that can't figure out that his body can't take the punishment that his hits deal out? A guy that gives up huge plays to ATTEMPT to make a highlight real? A "safety" is supposed to be the "safety outlet." The person that doesn't get beat deep. We have a guy betting the house on every play as our "safe guy." Uhmmm... no thanks... And the effed up thing is the guy I wanted us to take went the very next pick - Patrick Chung.

I've never been a Levy fan, ever. Thought we reached for him, never really liked his play, he played somewhat solid as a rookie, but never did anything "great," he just kind of didn't screw up like some people thought he would. IMO he's only on this team because of our ineptitude and inability to find his replacement. Who was the guy that we brought in and screwed... We signed Tulloch while he was on the plane... Anyway... I forget his name, but I thought we should have signed him AND Tulloch and moved someone around. In any event, over the last two seasons I think we should have upgraded our WLB, as Levy is a liability, not an asset.

I love Willie Young, everyone knows that, but it wasn't a surprise that he panned out good, and players like him pan out good all the time. That's what late round picks are, really athletic guys that are boom or bust, or "learn more" or get cut. Hall was the same way for us years ago. I liked him too... I liked the Leshoure pick, but you can't predict injuries like his. He wasn't injury prone in college, and sometimes poop just happens... Javid Best, however, has been a phucking NIGHTMARE. Javid Best was like investing $12k into a $20k garage queen show car, and finding out it needs $30k worth of work... but the bitch is... the rust bubbles and the rod knock were plain to see before we drafted him. I called that one stupid as soon as we pulled the trigger on it, and IT WAS. He has brought NOTHING but inconsistency to this team, and inconsistency kills team chemistry. I can't stand the pick and wish we would have dumped him and signed Bush and been done with it.

IMO the Jury is still out on Titus Young... He's a young punk thug, and a bit of a problem child, but he is talented. Nick Fairley... I'm not sold on, at all... I really don't think there's a team in the league that would have given up a first round pick for him last offseason... So, was he really a steal? If we couldn't get a 15-30 pick for him this year, was he really a steal last year, or did our scouting department screw up and not see something that other teams saw? Remember Mike Williams? Many Lions fans considered him a "steal" after we drafted him too...


m2karateman wrote:
I'll give my opinion on the Mayhew thing. My opinion is that he should have gotten the GM of the year award by now. While the Lions drafts haven't been perfect, they've been pretty damn good when compared to those done by other teams....even those teams who many feel are much better at drafting talent. No team hits on every single pick....NONE! To expect that Mayhew and Schwartz will somehow draft starters in late rounds every year is ridiculous at best.

In 2009 Mayhew drafted Stafford when many were calling for Aaron Curry or Jason Smith to be our pick. Advantage: Mayhew
He then drafted Brandon Pettigrew when many were calling for Michael Oher or Alex Mack. Alex Mack is an excellent player, and Oher is doing pretty well too. But when you draft a young QB, you get him talent at skill positions. We had nothing for a tight end. We had just drafted Cherilus the year before, and already had a serviceable center in Raiola. Advantage: Mayhew (slightly)

In that same draft we got three defensive players who have had a positive impact on the defense: Delmas, Levy and Hill. All three are starting quality. The biggest mistake made was their drafting of Derrick Williams in round three as a returner and backup receiver. Mike Wallace was taken two picks later. Ladarius Webb was also selected a few picks later, and could have helped in the secondary. Still, this was an excellent draft that netted us five solid players.

In 2010 the Lions were fortunate that the Rams picked ahead of them and desperately needed a QB, which allowed Suh to fall into their hands. Still, many draft pundits felt like Gerald McCoy was his equal and the Lions resisted the temptation to trade down despite offers. Advantage: Mayhew
With the second pick, the Lions made a mistake. They traded up, though they didn't give up much, and picked Jahvid Best. Let's face facts, it should have never been done. The risk was known, but ignored. I agree we needed a running back, but not that desperately. Advantage: critics

Taking Amari Spievey in the third round seemed reasonable, but it certainly hasn't worked out that way. This has turned out to be pretty much a wasted pick. Advantage: critics

However, Mayhew picked up the slack with his next two picks, getting Jason Fox and Willie Young in the fourth and seventh rounds respectively. Fox has struggled to stay healthy, but now seems like he is capable of playing at a high level if he can stay on the field. Young will be a starter here when KVB either retires or is given his walking papers. Advantage: Mayhew

In 2011 we took Fairley because he was considered a top five pick, and he fell into our laps. You don't hold that against a GM. We still don't know what we have with Fairley, so I'll consider this pick a push. Many fans wanted either Jimmy Smith or Da'Quan Bowers. Smith would have been good. Bowers...not so much.

The Titus Young pick is turning out to be brilliant. There was no way of knowing LeShoure would blow out an Achilles, but there was indication of his love of MJ. Thumbs up on the Young pick, but the LeShoure pick is a thumbs down for now. Doug Hogue is still developing, but hasn't been that impressive in camp this year. For a fifth round pick, I'll give him another year. Culbreath was a seventh rounder that never gave himself a chance. Mixed reviews.

I always criticize the draft and the picks the Lions make. But I'll give credit where it is due. Mayhew and Schwartz have done well. Teams rarely get that many starters in three drafts.

Now let's take a look at trades:

Roy Williams...netted us Brandon Pettigrew. Mayhew wins, hands down
Cory Redding for Julian Peterson. Push.
Traded down in 2009 with Jets, and got three picks that netted us Levy, Hill and Lydon Murtha. That's a win.
Used a fifth round pick to get Corey Williams. Win.
Used a fifth round pick to get Rob Sims. Win.
Used a seventh round pick to get Shaun Hill. Win.
Used sixth round and seventh round picks to get Chris Houston. Win.
Traded Dan Gronkowski for Alfonso Smith. Win.
Traded Ernie Sims for Tony Scheffler. Win.
Traded sixth rounder for Lawrence Jackson. Win.
Traded late round conditional pick for Kevin Barnes. Looking good.

So, how EXACTLY has the drafting or deal making by Mayhew been poor? By my accounts he's traded nothing but late round picks, and in doing so has netted us a capable backup QB, a starting DT, OG and CB, a really good TE, our starting TE for a washed up WR, a good DE, another good DB (Barnes), and a guy who got us some picks when he got here in exchange for a TE who wasn't going to make the club (Smith). And this is bad because....??

The only negative against Mayhew has been his inability to get us a capable running back. I DEFY you to find another team that has done as well via drafts and trades over the same time period. It would be easy to say that Mayhew could do nothing but make the team better because of how bad the roster was when he took over. But some GMs have proven that they can do worse, or at least don't do nearly as well.


If Mayhew got the GM of the year award last year I wouldn't have a problem with it. I don't like what he did in the offseason, but I can see how some people would look at the Lions and their improvement and reward it. That said, much like Schwartz, I think he got us out of the basement, but he's got a long way to go to be great.

'09 I wanted us to trade down. I didn't like Curry and everyone told me then that I was "crazy" for it. I didn't want Staff just because I don't agree with the philosophy that you should draft your Qb first. I'd much, much rather go the route of Green Bay, or Pitt, or Baltimore and draft someone in the middle of the first or later. IMO, putting a TEAM around a rookie Qb is the greatest gift you can give them.

Everyone knows that I wanted Alex Mack with our second pick. He was my favorite OLman since I wanted us to take Nick Mangold. IMO our OL suffers from Raiola's lack of size and strength. Mack is better than Raiola in every way, and he's 2.1 million dollars cheaper THIS YEAR, and would have had a bigger salary gap for the prior two seasons. Part of what I don't agree with the Lions is that they hold onto aging vets that can't produce, like Raiola, for years, and they over-pay them. Raiola is part of the reason this team is cash strapped, and he sucks, flat out.

We can go over this BS about Pett again and again and again, but the bottom line is, he's not a first round TE in my book. He was billed to us BY THE SCOUTING DEPARTMENT as a TE that could "block as well as most LTs" and that having Pett on the field would help our running game, blah blah blah... All I have to say to that is pottytrain1.gif . Some want to talk about his pass catching and his offensive stats as if he is some sort of God. He does put up some good numbers, but IMO the thing you want most out of a TE is reliability, and he doesn't provide it. He drops way too many balls, and he was a FIRST ROUND PICK at a position that's generally taken in rounds 3-5. I also don't like his character, effort, or personality, but that's just me.

I'm sorry, but I can't agree that Levy is "starting quality," IMO there are few, if any teams in the NFL that he would be starting on if he left. I don't care for him at all.

I never said that Mayhew didn't trade well, ever. What I did say was that he handled the Avril situation HORRIBLY. Mayhew literally handcuffed us into offering him a ridiculous contract, and caused us to HAVE to blow our whole damn remaining cap space on him.

Like I said, this team has too many holes, and too many "cash cow" type players. Everyone wants to pay Avril "whatever he wants," but people are going to be pissed when we can't afford to keep one of our other TRUE elite players because we over-paid Cliff. It hasn't happened yet, but it did cost us the ability to sign someone like Tracy Porter, Michael Bush, or ??? To better this team THIS YEAR. Like I said, IMO Mayhew's handling of the Avril situation cost us this entire season. Why? Because we really haven't gotten any better. We're more or less the same damn team, but a little deeper at CB. And like I said, IMO we over-achieved last year.


September 5th, 2012, 5:07 pm
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
Wjb - I think you were referring to David Hawthorne.

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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
wjb21ndtown wrote:
I'll just continue to stay positive

I'm sorry mate, but that just made me giggle. You're the biggest "the glass is half empty ... and what's in the glass is probably poisonous" Lions fan I've ever (virtually) met!

(I share many of your doubts about allens' bonafides, I think your pessimism is often an interesting reality check for the optimists like me - so don't get me wrong, I'm not meaning to give you a massive hard time or anything - but you and the word positive do not go together IMO!)


September 5th, 2012, 6:26 pm
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
UK Lion wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
I'll just continue to stay positive

I'm sorry mate, but that just made me giggle. You're the biggest "the glass is half empty ... and what's in the glass is probably poisonous" Lions fan I've ever (virtually) met!

(I share many of your doubts about allens' bonafides, I think your pessimism is often an interesting reality check for the optimists like me - so don't get me wrong, I'm not meaning to give you a massive hard time or anything - but you and the word positive do not go together IMO!)



Ha... Sorry, I meant stay positive about the possibility that one day I'll get something worthwhile out of Allenslions... I hope that makes more sense.


I do like most of the team. I really do. There are a few key personnel decisions being made that I think are really, really holding this team back.


September 5th, 2012, 6:46 pm
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
wjb21ndtown wrote:
allenslions wrote:
wjb are you friking kidding me.your opinion is a joke.we have a general manager who took a team from 0-16 to a playoff team in 3 years i dont know of any other gm to do that.as for the draft what team has drafted better in the last 4 years.the fact is you have a no idea how things are done in the real world so why dont you stick to being a madden gm.and as for saying we suck in the scouting department why dont you bring all your football knowledge down here to allen park and interview for a position i,m sure we could use another guy to clean up the locker rooms . :finger:


Jim Harbaugh took the 49res from a 6-10 team that was even worse the year prior to a 13-3 playoff team, and that was just the coach, and he did it in one year! Oh yea, and they actually won their division and hosted a game... Annnndddd... They beat the team that destroyed us... Hmmmm...

Other teams have made drastic turnarounds as well. My issue is, IMO the Lions record was better than the team last year, and I think they'll regress this year. SF is built solid, IMO. They have fewer premadonnas, fewer cash cow players, and they're deeper in most respects. They don't rely so heavily on one guy on offense, and they are much MUCH more balanced.

I have my doubts as to whether YOU know how things are done in the real world. IMO you've proven nothing, and if you really do work for the Lions scouting department you are some sort of village idiot intern or something. Your "knowledge" has proven less than accurate multiple times. Hell, people on here that DON'T have "inside knowledge" seem to be more right than you on multiple occasions.

I don't want to work for the Lions scouting department, I couldn't afford the pay cut. If I do anything for the NFL I would be a player manager for a problematic, high profile client. A job like that sounds fun, and it actually PAYS well.

Buuuttt... I don't know why I even bother talking to you. You've proven to me that your comprehension skills suck, and you've never had anything relevant to add to any conversation I've engaged you in... But anyhow... I'll just continue to stay positive and provide the insight that I think you're lacking, even if you're incapable of grasping it...


Shotty wrote:
Please tell me you're kidding. Mayhew uses the BPA strategy every single year, and has gotten steals on steals on steals. Delmas, Willie Young, DeAndre Levy, and Titus Young are all or will all soon be big role players in our team, and Nick Fairley/Mikel Leshoure would've probably been on that list if they didn't get injured last season. The only bad pick he made since he took over was Derrick Williams in the third round. How did he handle the Avril situation horribly? He offered Cliff a ridiculous contract and it was turned down, so he got him on the franchise tag. What did you want him to do? Our only holes are in the secondary, the run game, and the offensive line's run blocking. The secondary very well may surprise lots of people; it ranked 9th last year before injuries. The run game can also get a big boost from Leshoure/Kevin Smith, and if Jahvid comes back after 6 weeks our backfield can do special things. Our offensive line is being rebuilt, hence Mayhew taking Riley Reiff since he's a very solid run blocker unlike any of our current offensive linemen. The Lions haven't had a GM like Mayhew in a long, long time.


Steals? Delmas? An injury prone guy that can't figure out that his body can't take the punishment that his hits deal out? A guy that gives up huge plays to ATTEMPT to make a highlight real? A "safety" is supposed to be the "safety outlet." The person that doesn't get beat deep. We have a guy betting the house on every play as our "safe guy." Uhmmm... no thanks... And the effed up thing is the guy I wanted us to take went the very next pick - Patrick Chung.

I've never been a Levy fan, ever. Thought we reached for him, never really liked his play, he played somewhat solid as a rookie, but never did anything "great," he just kind of didn't screw up like some people thought he would. IMO he's only on this team because of our ineptitude and inability to find his replacement. Who was the guy that we brought in and screwed... We signed Tulloch while he was on the plane... Anyway... I forget his name, but I thought we should have signed him AND Tulloch and moved someone around. In any event, over the last two seasons I think we should have upgraded our WLB, as Levy is a liability, not an asset.

I love Willie Young, everyone knows that, but it wasn't a surprise that he panned out good, and players like him pan out good all the time. That's what late round picks are, really athletic guys that are boom or bust, or "learn more" or get cut. Hall was the same way for us years ago. I liked him too... I liked the Leshoure pick, but you can't predict injuries like his. He wasn't injury prone in college, and sometimes poop just happens... Javid Best, however, has been a phucking NIGHTMARE. Javid Best was like investing $12k into a $20k garage queen show car, and finding out it needs $30k worth of work... but the bitch is... the rust bubbles and the rod knock were plain to see before we drafted him. I called that one stupid as soon as we pulled the trigger on it, and IT WAS. He has brought NOTHING but inconsistency to this team, and inconsistency kills team chemistry. I can't stand the pick and wish we would have dumped him and signed Bush and been done with it.

IMO the Jury is still out on Titus Young... He's a young punk thug, and a bit of a problem child, but he is talented. Nick Fairley... I'm not sold on, at all... I really don't think there's a team in the league that would have given up a first round pick for him last offseason... So, was he really a steal? If we couldn't get a 15-30 pick for him this year, was he really a steal last year, or did our scouting department screw up and not see something that other teams saw? Remember Mike Williams? Many Lions fans considered him a "steal" after we drafted him too...


m2karateman wrote:
I'll give my opinion on the Mayhew thing. My opinion is that he should have gotten the GM of the year award by now. While the Lions drafts haven't been perfect, they've been pretty damn good when compared to those done by other teams....even those teams who many feel are much better at drafting talent. No team hits on every single pick....NONE! To expect that Mayhew and Schwartz will somehow draft starters in late rounds every year is ridiculous at best.

In 2009 Mayhew drafted Stafford when many were calling for Aaron Curry or Jason Smith to be our pick. Advantage: Mayhew
He then drafted Brandon Pettigrew when many were calling for Michael Oher or Alex Mack. Alex Mack is an excellent player, and Oher is doing pretty well too. But when you draft a young QB, you get him talent at skill positions. We had nothing for a tight end. We had just drafted Cherilus the year before, and already had a serviceable center in Raiola. Advantage: Mayhew (slightly)

In that same draft we got three defensive players who have had a positive impact on the defense: Delmas, Levy and Hill. All three are starting quality. The biggest mistake made was their drafting of Derrick Williams in round three as a returner and backup receiver. Mike Wallace was taken two picks later. Ladarius Webb was also selected a few picks later, and could have helped in the secondary. Still, this was an excellent draft that netted us five solid players.

In 2010 the Lions were fortunate that the Rams picked ahead of them and desperately needed a QB, which allowed Suh to fall into their hands. Still, many draft pundits felt like Gerald McCoy was his equal and the Lions resisted the temptation to trade down despite offers. Advantage: Mayhew
With the second pick, the Lions made a mistake. They traded up, though they didn't give up much, and picked Jahvid Best. Let's face facts, it should have never been done. The risk was known, but ignored. I agree we needed a running back, but not that desperately. Advantage: critics

Taking Amari Spievey in the third round seemed reasonable, but it certainly hasn't worked out that way. This has turned out to be pretty much a wasted pick. Advantage: critics

However, Mayhew picked up the slack with his next two picks, getting Jason Fox and Willie Young in the fourth and seventh rounds respectively. Fox has struggled to stay healthy, but now seems like he is capable of playing at a high level if he can stay on the field. Young will be a starter here when KVB either retires or is given his walking papers. Advantage: Mayhew

In 2011 we took Fairley because he was considered a top five pick, and he fell into our laps. You don't hold that against a GM. We still don't know what we have with Fairley, so I'll consider this pick a push. Many fans wanted either Jimmy Smith or Da'Quan Bowers. Smith would have been good. Bowers...not so much.

The Titus Young pick is turning out to be brilliant. There was no way of knowing LeShoure would blow out an Achilles, but there was indication of his love of MJ. Thumbs up on the Young pick, but the LeShoure pick is a thumbs down for now. Doug Hogue is still developing, but hasn't been that impressive in camp this year. For a fifth round pick, I'll give him another year. Culbreath was a seventh rounder that never gave himself a chance. Mixed reviews.

I always criticize the draft and the picks the Lions make. But I'll give credit where it is due. Mayhew and Schwartz have done well. Teams rarely get that many starters in three drafts.

Now let's take a look at trades:

Roy Williams...netted us Brandon Pettigrew. Mayhew wins, hands down
Cory Redding for Julian Peterson. Push.
Traded down in 2009 with Jets, and got three picks that netted us Levy, Hill and Lydon Murtha. That's a win.
Used a fifth round pick to get Corey Williams. Win.
Used a fifth round pick to get Rob Sims. Win.
Used a seventh round pick to get Shaun Hill. Win.
Used sixth round and seventh round picks to get Chris Houston. Win.
Traded Dan Gronkowski for Alfonso Smith. Win.
Traded Ernie Sims for Tony Scheffler. Win.
Traded sixth rounder for Lawrence Jackson. Win.
Traded late round conditional pick for Kevin Barnes. Looking good.

So, how EXACTLY has the drafting or deal making by Mayhew been poor? By my accounts he's traded nothing but late round picks, and in doing so has netted us a capable backup QB, a starting DT, OG and CB, a really good TE, our starting TE for a washed up WR, a good DE, another good DB (Barnes), and a guy who got us some picks when he got here in exchange for a TE who wasn't going to make the club (Smith). And this is bad because....??

The only negative against Mayhew has been his inability to get us a capable running back. I DEFY you to find another team that has done as well via drafts and trades over the same time period. It would be easy to say that Mayhew could do nothing but make the team better because of how bad the roster was when he took over. But some GMs have proven that they can do worse, or at least don't do nearly as well.


If Mayhew got the GM of the year award last year I wouldn't have a problem with it. I don't like what he did in the offseason, but I can see how some people would look at the Lions and their improvement and reward it. That said, much like Schwartz, I think he got us out of the basement, but he's got a long way to go to be great.

'09 I wanted us to trade down. I didn't like Curry and everyone told me then that I was "crazy" for it. I didn't want Staff just because I don't agree with the philosophy that you should draft your Qb first. I'd much, much rather go the route of Green Bay, or Pitt, or Baltimore and draft someone in the middle of the first or later. IMO, putting a TEAM around a rookie Qb is the greatest gift you can give them.

Everyone knows that I wanted Alex Mack with our second pick. He was my favorite OLman since I wanted us to take Nick Mangold. IMO our OL suffers from Raiola's lack of size and strength. Mack is better than Raiola in every way, and he's 2.1 million dollars cheaper THIS YEAR, and would have had a bigger salary gap for the prior two seasons. Part of what I don't agree with the Lions is that they hold onto aging vets that can't produce, like Raiola, for years, and they over-pay them. Raiola is part of the reason this team is cash strapped, and he sucks, flat out.

We can go over this BS about Pett again and again and again, but the bottom line is, he's not a first round TE in my book. He was billed to us BY THE SCOUTING DEPARTMENT as a TE that could "block as well as most LTs" and that having Pett on the field would help our running game, blah blah blah... All I have to say to that is pottytrain1.gif . Some want to talk about his pass catching and his offensive stats as if he is some sort of God. He does put up some good numbers, but IMO the thing you want most out of a TE is reliability, and he doesn't provide it. He drops way too many balls, and he was a FIRST ROUND PICK at a position that's generally taken in rounds 3-5. I also don't like his character, effort, or personality, but that's just me.

I'm sorry, but I can't agree that Levy is "starting quality," IMO there are few, if any teams in the NFL that he would be starting on if he left. I don't care for him at all.

I never said that Mayhew didn't trade well, ever. What I did say was that he handled the Avril situation HORRIBLY. Mayhew literally handcuffed us into offering him a ridiculous contract, and caused us to HAVE to blow our whole damn remaining cap space on him.

Like I said, this team has too many holes, and too many "cash cow" type players. Everyone wants to pay Avril "whatever he wants," but people are going to be pissed when we can't afford to keep one of our other TRUE elite players because we over-paid Cliff. It hasn't happened yet, but it did cost us the ability to sign someone like Tracy Porter, Michael Bush, or ??? To better this team THIS YEAR. Like I said, IMO Mayhew's handling of the Avril situation cost us this entire season. Why? Because we really haven't gotten any better. We're more or less the same damn team, but a little deeper at CB. And like I said, IMO we over-achieved last year.


Mayhew has managed this team for 3 years. Are you expecting a 5 star roster this fast? The 49ers needed 6 turnovers just to be IN POSITION to have a game-winning drive, which they completed. They allowed Brees to throw for 462 yards against their damn defense. The Saints didn't destroy us. We were in position to go up 21-7 if the refs didn't blow the whistle, and the Saints took until the 4th quarter to pull away. That was also with Houston and Delmas playing with hurt bum knees and 3 dropped picks. That game could've been ours if we capitalized on all of the Saints which we didn't. IMO, Avril will be gone next offseason and Willie Young will replace him. KVB will remain our RE until a replacement (likely from the draft or Lawrence Jackson) comes in. Think about it like this. WY won't start this year. If Avril has a great season with 15+ sacks and some forced fumbles, he'll probably get big money. If he doesn't have a very good season, which I think he won't, he'll be cut and WY will step in. Now, the hustle in this is that WY can't demand a huge contract since he probably won't get much playing time as a backup so he won't have proved himself. We can sign WY to a contract worth $2-5 mill a year and pick up some true talent in FA with the remaining money. Same with Raiola. Yes, he signed a 4 year, $20 million contract, but that was because no one was there to step in at the time. When this contract is over, I'd be shocked if he's resigned. This team is built for the future. So far, we have our QB, WRs, TE, T, DTs, and DEs of the future, and possibly our LBs and CB if T. Lewis/T. Whitehead continue solid progression and Dwight Bentley continues progressing fast. I think that by next season's start we'll have new starters at strong safety and outside linebacker to replace Levy and Speivey/Coleman, and by the way, I've never liked Levy much either.

IMHO, the Lions just don't want to cut vets with ridiculous contract, like Raiola, Burleson, and Corey Williams because the base players are so young and need some leadership for a few more years, and the best part is Raiola can be easily replaced for a cheap contract, Burleson can easily be replaced as soon as next season by Titus Young, and Corey Williams can be replaced by Nick Fairley. This team may not be great now, but once the Lions have some cap freedom after cutting some of these veteran vocal leaders, I'm sure Mayhew will make the moves to bring them to greatness.

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September 5th, 2012, 7:48 pm
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
And to comment on what Harbaugh did in his short tenure with the Niners compared to Mayhew...Dont you remember when Mayhew took over they had Calvin Johnson.....THATS IT. At least Harbaugh had some players to work with.

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September 5th, 2012, 7:55 pm
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
kdsberman wrote:
And to comment on what Harbaugh did in his short tenure with the Niners compared to Mayhew...Dont you remember when Mayhew took over they had Calvin Johnson.....THATS IT. At least Harbaugh had some players to work with.


That's an understatement. He had a defense led by the best defensive player in the league and good players at every single defensive position, and on offense a top 10 RB and top 5 TE to build around. Wish our coaching staff could've worked with that team.

The thing is that Mayhew is slowly building a great roster. He's putting everything into place by getting players who can have solid roles or be, at the very least, solid backups. Last offseason before any signings or the draft, ILB, OLB, CB, G, and T. We have 2 solid replacements in Tulloch and Durant, Dwight Bentley looks to be our CB of the future, and Riley Reiff will be either our G or T of the future because of the versatility he brings. Once he starts and a few more changes are made across the offensive line, it'll be solid at run and pass blocking. Getting players to immediately or later fill 4 of the 5 needed positions is pretty good if you ask me.

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September 5th, 2012, 8:01 pm
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
your whole argument starts off with a false statement .the 49ers were 8-8 prior to there 6-10 season.but just like a lawyer you change the facts to prove your argument.they also feast on an amazingly weak division.so dont try to compare what they have done to what we have got done in the last few years.


September 5th, 2012, 8:41 pm
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
allenslions wrote:
your whole argument starts off with a false statement .the 49ers were 8-8 prior to there 6-10 season.but just like a lawyer you change the facts to prove your argument.they also feast on an amazingly weak division.so dont try to compare what they have done to what we have got done in the last few years.


how about they beat us at home last season? hows that?


September 5th, 2012, 10:52 pm
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
allenslions wrote:
wjb are you friking kidding me.your opinion is a joke.we have a general manager who took a team from 0-16 to a playoff team in 3 years i dont know of any other gm to do that.as for the draft what team has drafted better in the last 4 years.the fact is you have a no idea how things are done in the real world so why dont you stick to being a madden gm.and as for saying we suck in the scouting department why dont you bring all your football knowledge down here to allen park and interview for a position i,m sure we could use another guy to clean up the locker rooms . :finger:


i think he s done a great job but i think the next step is more difficult. Calvin Johnson was already here. Matthew Stafford and Ndamukong Suh were no brainer picks. I ll give him mad props for Brandon Pettigrew, Louis Delmas, Sammie Hill, etc but its much easier to take a garbage team and improve it. its easy to find better players than the garbage that was being put out there for marinelli.

the task ahead isnt a "build" its more of an evolution. the lions have an identity as having an intimidating DL and a ferocius pass rush. i dont see mayhew as the type that will sacrifice the future by going big for a couple FA to balance out the team in the short term. this might make us look better but with impending salary cap doom. he seems to be racking up the next wave of players to keep the key components and strengths maintained so that the team stays good for a longer period. to do so though he has to be right on with his picks. he cannot afford for players like nick fairley, mikel leshoure to flame out.


September 5th, 2012, 11:03 pm
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
kdsberman wrote:
And to comment on what Harbaugh did in his short tenure with the Niners compared to Mayhew...Dont you remember when Mayhew took over they had Calvin Johnson.....THATS IT. At least Harbaugh had some players to work with.


Yeah, it is WAAAAAY too early to dub Harbaugh a coaching genius. Note that he took over in the lockout year, so he couldn't do anything with the roster. That means he inherited the players on last year's team. I don't mean to sell his accomplishment short--he did a great job with those players. However, the test for him will be in 2-3 years when he has to keep all of those talented players together, or replace players through the draft and free agency. Can he build a team to last? Nobody can answer that question right now.

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September 5th, 2012, 11:06 pm
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
Quote:
the lions have an identity as having an intimidating DL and a ferocius pass rush.


This pops up a lot and I do not understand it.

The identity of the Lions is Stafford throwing the football to Johnson.


September 5th, 2012, 11:07 pm
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
The Legend wrote:
allenslions wrote:
your whole argument starts off with a false statement .the 49ers were 8-8 prior to there 6-10 season.but just like a lawyer you change the facts to prove your argument.they also feast on an amazingly weak division.so dont try to compare what they have done to what we have got done in the last few years.


how about they beat us at home last season? hows that?


On a 4th and 6 play that only happened because Bobby Carpenter, who was filling in for Durant, COMPLETELY blew his zone.

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September 6th, 2012, 6:31 am
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
mwill2 wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
And to comment on what Harbaugh did in his short tenure with the Niners compared to Mayhew...Dont you remember when Mayhew took over they had Calvin Johnson.....THATS IT. At least Harbaugh had some players to work with.


Yeah, it is WAAAAAY too early to dub Harbaugh a coaching genius. Note that he took over in the lockout year, so he couldn't do anything with the roster. That means he inherited the players on last year's team. I don't mean to sell his accomplishment short--he did a great job with those players. However, the test for him will be in 2-3 years when he has to keep all of those talented players together, or replace players through the draft and free agency. Can he build a team to last? Nobody can answer that question right now.


The 49ers had a ton of talent waiting for a good coach. The Lions had literally one good player.

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September 6th, 2012, 8:57 am
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
wjb...my whole post was driven by this statement that you made:

Quote:
Mayhew may have worked some good trades for us, but IMO is drafting hasn't been great at all, and good teams draft well. I'm also not impressed with our scouting department.


So, yes, you give Mayhew credit for some good trades.....but in my opinion that's simply not enough credit. He has brokered some GREAT deals, solidifying the left guard position, our top cover corner spot, a starting DT spot and a capable backup QB spot with chump change draft picks. He moved Roy Williams out of here for a kings ransom of picks. Those alone are more than most GMs do in a decade. He did all that in less than two years.

He inherited a roster that was a joke, that most NCAA DI college teams would have blown away. In three seasons he added enough talent to take us to the playoffs. You want to claim the team accomplished more last season than they are really capable of. I say that's horseshit. Teams accomplish what they accomplish. Nobody here said he built a dynasty. But he and Schwartz have built the team to a point where they were in the playoffs legitimately. They didn't have to rely on a lucky break, or another teams loss to make it in. Yes, they were fortunate that Cutler got hurt, because the Bears were looking like they would be the team getting the wild card berth. But you know what, sh*t happens. The ten wins didn't come from the Cutler injury. They earned those.

As for the comparison to the 49ers, even you must know that was a really bad comparison. The only thing keeping the 49ers from being a better team was that Mike Singletary isn't an NFL head coach. His constant changes to his assistants, his mishandling of players and game situations kept a pretty decent roster of players from accomplishing more. Harbaugh, first off, is NOT a GM and he didn't build that roster. He got a bunch of accomplished talent when he took that job, and one of the reasons he took the SF job was because of the talent on the roster. He knew he wouldn't have to do much to be able to win a weak division. Going 13-3 is a division with Seattle, Arizona and St. Louis is about the same as going 10-6 in a division with the Packers and Bears, if you ask me. Put the Lions in the NFC West and that's about a guaranteed five wins in the division for them.

As for the picks you mention....as I said, show me a team that has gotten as many starters in as few drafts the past three or four years. You can sit there and say the team had no talent, and players like Levy wouldn't start on another team. BUT, you don't know that for sure. As for Pettigrew, I agree that he isn't as reliable as we'd like him to be. But you don't catch 83 passes and suck. His blocking isn't an issue that creates havoc in the running game. He blocks pretty well. Most defensive ends that face him have said so. And I wasn't a huge fan of his being picked in the first round, but I understand the philosophy behind it. We had no tight end worthwhile and we had to get one. Pettigrew was rated as a top 20 pick in that draft, with some projecting him to be taken by Buffalo with the 11th pick. They took Aaron Maybin instead. Ask them if they'd trade picks now.

It all comes down to this....any of us can second guess picks after the fact. I do it all the time. There have been times when I've been right, and times when I've been wrong. Same goes for you. The difference is, our guesses have no effect on the roster, and nobody can criticize us because nobody remembers our guesses.

Criticizing the scouting department....for what? They were constantly ignored during the Millen years, and we all know this. It's how we ended up drafting Harrington, Rogers and Mike Williams. It's how we got Drew Stanton, IAF and others that weren't well liked by the scouts. Our drafts in '09-'12 netted us 21 of our 53 players currently on our roster. 2001 through 2008 got us five players currently on our roster. And of the 21 players, 14 of them were part of last years playoff team. 14 of 53 is over 25% of the roster brought in via drafts. The rest was brought in by FA signings and trades.

I guess my question would be...exactly what more do you expect Mayhew to do in such a short period of time, starting with such a lousy roster and handicapped by deals given to players before he was hired (such as Raiola)?

You want to harp on Mayhew for the handling of the Cliff Avril situation. I'm not a big fan of what happened either. But tell me, what was he supposed to have done? NOT tag him and let him walk for nothing? A fair offer was made, and Avril rejected it. You can't broker a deal for a player not under contract.

And you keep bringing up the Michael Bush and Tracy Porter thing as if they were clamoring to come here, but we simply didn't have the money to pay them. There's no guarantee that either of them would have signed a deal here. If they had let Avril walk, and then didn't get Porter/Bush, you would have complained about how Mayhew didn't do enough to get them here, or whatever.

Face it wjb....and I've said this before...if things aren't done EXACTLY the way you feel they should be done, you complain endlessly. UK Lion is right, you are a glass half empty, and what's in there is poison kind of guy. There are times where what you would have wanted likely would garner better results. But all of us can say that about a pick here or a FA signing there.

The end result is that the Lions went to the playoffs, with a relatively young roster, and they have the possibility of doing the same again. He's accomplished a ton of good in his short tenure here. If the Lions don't make the playoffs this season, so be it. I think they have a legitimate shot at it. That's far better than knowing they have no shot at it whatsoever.

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September 6th, 2012, 9:14 am
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